LA KINGS 2023/4 Regular season discussion

[Raccoon Jesus]

It was, but watching it I think it was mostly driven by Vilardi's elite level play. Which probably wasn't sustainable.

Even though I felt the Kings needed a center, I was against the PLD trade initially because I didn't want to lose Gabe. In hindsight however, it was probably the right move considering Gabe's injuries and apparent inability to hold down the center position. PLD and Gabe are similar in age.

Sure, but as long as we're playing in fantasyland with the what ifs, who is to say 164 games of those guys isn't better than what we've cobbled together now?

To be clear i'm probably belaboring this because I'm not really arguing against you guys, I just don't think PLD has been a huge differencemaker that some are making it seem. I agree that if it's a wash moving the players off W and to C is probably a win but I'm also still waiting for PLD to show up.

PLD is one year older than Vilardi and Vilardi is shocker injured again. Iafallo is about to turn 30 and and would continue to gatekeep younger wingers from coming up. Everyone wants to complain about how the young wingers aren't given a chance to move up but want to keep wingers like Iafallo and arvidsson. Kupari is doing nothing just like he did in LA

PLD vs. Vilardi always came down to consistency vs. injury concerns. Both have reared their ugly heads in the early season.

What wingers would Iafallo be keeping out of the lineup? Fagemo is gone, largely because of indecision. Laf wasn't going to be on the roster anyway if not for injury. Maybe Kaliyev since they'd be c***b***ck him, but let's be real, the moment Arvy comes back the org will be purging youth anyways. Turcotte? You could argue that PLD being a C is a bigger cockblock. I'll admit I'm a huge Iafallo fan, that's my biggest problem here. But having Byfield at C and Iafallo/Vilardi is a net +1 on wing, not a huge deal.

Kupari doesn't move the needle for me in this deal as he was mostly a throw in but I just find it funny that other similar-performing teams can find usage for our cost-controlled players and we can't.

Again I'm not trying to cry over spilt milk, what's done is done. If anything the trade is basically exacltly what we'd expect at this point--we're dealing with an inconsistent C with flashes of brilliance. It's not some huge difference that people are making out, and I REALLY don't buy the idea that Iafallo being gone has been so good for the kids.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

However, this i can appreciate, and is good to see

 

[tny760]

...and that "specific part" would be? i'm assuming faceoffs but still.

f*** i hate this mysterious opinion bullshit. report.

 

[Kudelski37]

I don't know if they were better. Last year at this time they were 4-4, had scored 7 fewer goals, and allowed 5 more than this year (2g from SO losses).

And their schedule to open this year has been much more difficult.

It's really to early to call it either way, but there is a lot more evidence that they are better vs worse.

Maybe I wasn't clear because I compared the forward production from last October to this year's group to dispute the claim that adding PLD created more balanced lines. If the Kings had not traded for PLD, then the team would be better right now. It isn't a comparison to last year's team with Durzi, Edler, Cal, etc.

 

[Fishhead]

Sure, but as long as we're playing in fantasyland with the what ifs, who is to say 164 games of those guys isn't better than what we've cobbled together now?

To be clear i'm probably belaboring this because I'm not really arguing against you guys, I just don't think PLD has been a huge differencemaker that some are making it seem. I agree that if it's a wash moving the players off W and to C is probably a win but I'm also still waiting for PLD to show up.

This is how I kind of feel as well. You can see the better balance, but we are still waiting for PLD to bring it. I figured it would take him a while to settle in, it took him a bit in Winnipeg. But is it that or the combos he is being used with? Hoping their 10-day evaluation looks closely at that.

I wouldn't mind if they tried some shuffling. I think Byfield's emergence is having at least some effect on Kempe's numbers. Personally, I would like to see ho a Byfield/Laferriere swap would look.

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

This is how I kind of feel as well. You can see the better balance, but we are still waiting for PLD to bring it. I figured it would take him a while to settle in, it took him a bit in Winnipeg. But is it that or the combos he is being used with? Hoping their 10-day evaluation looks closely at that.

I wouldn't mind if they tried some shuffling. I think Byfield's emergence is having at least some effect on Kempe's numbers. Personally, I would like to see ho a Byfield/Laferriere swap would look.

Agreed - it's a really intriguing line mix up. I'd probably give it until around the 12 game mark though (assuming the team continues to play fairly well).

Laferriere - Kopitar - Kempe
Byfield - PLD - Fiala

I have a weird feeling Byfield and Fiala would actually play really well together. And Laferriere is a guy who just feels like an amazing 'Kopitar winger' - but arguably more skilled than many of the past winger's Kopi's had.

With Laferriere and Byfield you essentially have two guys in the same situation: They're both young players who are seemingly playing really well but lacking a bit when it comes to production. Swapping the two of them to see if they 'click' with new linemates seems like a no brainer if production continues to lack.

 

[lumbergh]

Lost in the argument of trade value is the fact that the Kings did what a bunch of people were advocating for, which is making room for younger players to step forward and contribute. It is a effectively 3-for-1 trade, so a net loss of 2 players. That’s two spots on the wing, which are now occupied by Laferriere and Kaliyev. No trade, maybe Kaliyev is stuck next to Lizotte and Laferriere is toiling in the AHL not getting power play time.

It is said that the team that gets the most dynamic player in a trade wins it. Blake made the trade knowing he had depth ready to go. It didn’t make sense at the time to me because of the cap and the value, but there’s underlying value in making roster space for young players.

 

[Sol]

You assume they didn’t report injuries and recovery correctly because it could easily be a coach/player decisions over ruling the medical advice. It happens all the time across sport. Also with Vilardi last year we have no idea if the two absences were the same problem of two completely different ones.

It’s not just an assumption. It’s a trend. It’s been happening and it’s been to the detriment of the team and the individual. The Kings have uniquely have had this problem the last two years where players aren’t playing anywhere close to 100 percent.


What good was it playing Byfield last year when he himself he didn’t feel his hands at times due to numbness.

I don’t get why anyone would run defense for the medical and coaching staff. This is extreme gross negligence.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Lost in the argument of trade value is the fact that the Kings did what a bunch of people were advocating for, which is making room for younger players to step forward and contribute. It is a effectively 3-for-1 trade, so a net loss of 2 players. That’s two spots on the wing, which are now occupied by Laferriere and Kaliyev. No trade, maybe Kaliyev is stuck next to Lizotte and Laferriere is toiling in the AHL not getting power play time.

It is said that the team that gets the most dynamic player in a trade wins it. Blake made the trade knowing he had depth ready to go. It didn’t make sense at the time to me because of the cap and the value, but there’s underlying value in making roster space for young players.

Not really. It's a net gain of one spot. You can't seriously argue Kupari was a roster fixture. It just moved two W positions to one C position--which you could argue is worse for the higher end prospects like Byfield and Turcotte.

The spots 'opened' for Laferriere and Kaliyev only exist because of one winger gone and Arvidsson injured. It was pretty clear one of those guys was going down if Arvy wasn't injured.

Maybe splitting hairs but 'making spots for kids' is a very overstated part of this trade. Especially watching Fagemo go on and get claimed on waivers.

 

[Fishhead]

Maybe I wasn't clear because I compared the forward productio from last October to this year's group to dispute the claim that adding PLD created more balanced lines. If the Kings had not traded for PLD, then the team would be better right now. It isn't a comparison to last year's team with Durzi, Edler, Cal, etc.

Even the forward production is better this year. Over the first 8 games last year forwards accounted for 22g and 35a. This year it's 28g and 39A - a 6g and 4A jump in 8 games is a 27% increase in goals and 14% increase in assists.

I wouldn't discount defensive scoring either because it also affects opening it up for the defense, teams are collapsing in the zone more often because of the King's forwards. Teams were in our face at the points constantly last year, it's noticeably different this year.

Then there is this: 15:22 ---> 14:21. That's Kopitar's average even-strength ice time, a full minute less per game and the lowest of his career by a half minute. Kopitar's ES production hasn't suffered either, it's at 3.13p/60, the highest of his career. It's only 8 games, but that's a good sign. I was concerned initially because his ice time has gone up this year, then after looking I realized that it's because his PP time went up from 3:02 per game to 4:47 because of how well they hold the zone. Todd can ride him all he wants on the PP, those are easy minutes.

 

[Fishhead]

Not really. It's a net gain of one spot. You can't seriously argue Kupari was a roster fixture. It just moved two W positions to one C position--which you could argue is worse for the higher end prospects like Byfield and Turcotte.

The spots 'opened' for Laferriere and Kaliyev only exist because of one winger gone and Arvidsson injured. It was pretty clear one of those guys was going down if Arvy wasn't injured.

Maybe splitting hairs but 'making spots for kids' is a very overstated part of this trade. Especially watching Fagemo go on and get claimed on waivers.

Yeah, it ended up more as a perk than the thought behind the trade. There were 2 spots opened, but they were never going to play two kids there. They signed Lewis first chance they got to fill the role Kupari had started to take on and to improve the pk. They didnt foresee how Laf would play, but that spot made it easy to keep him.

 

[tkb81]

None of those players failed at anything.

They were prematurely asked to perform immediately so an old nag could somehow compete in a race that it couldn't possibly win.

This is a managerial problem, not a personnel issue.

right we always rush our prospects ... laughs in coach

 

[funky]

Just think where we would be if we had a healthy Arvidsson to help out on the power-play right now.

The one thing I do like about PL is it gives us just another person that can take over a game. Yes he can float for games but when he is on, he can be a difference maker. I would also like to caution that he’s only had a dozen games to fit into the system and get to know the players. After another dozen we should start seeing what he really has to offer.

Still as a team game and if we can have different players step up on different nights That really helps us in the long run. When it’s a skilled players that are paid to score that stuff up with Kempe, Kopitar, PL and Fiala, it gives us a better chance to win.

The one really nice thing I have seen this year is that Byfield is starting to show the ability to take over numerous shifts a game. The way he chases down, and Holmes parks is becoming top end Demar Repin, the other team in their zone the less chance they have to score on us.

Also, I have to give Drew some props over the last week. Some of the best hockey I have saw him play on the offensive end.

Spence is still getting his feet wet. I still think there’s more to come from that kid.

Same can be said with Laf. Although I think Laf is playing a couple notches ahead of where Spence is at this time. The kid has really made a good impression.

Kaliyev is the forward I am most worry about. Some games he looks like he gets it and other games he doesn’t. Poor kid has been affected by injuries and suspensions as well. I’m just hoping sometime on the ice and some constant chances get him into the groove where he starts finding the back of the net with regularity

Overall, I am quite comfortable with our forward group. I knew her top 40 fence would be OK in the bottom to seem to be hanging in there.

As long as we don’t overuse Talbot he will keep us in the playoff hunt.

After eight games, nothing has really changed and it will be what Blake can do with the deadline to find us a playoff caliber goaltender that will put the stamp on this year’s Kings.

 

[lexlavender]

I haven't been upset with PLD, and I think the value of the trade, the timing of it, and just PLD's style in general is hurting the eye test evaluation of him.

Currently he has 5 points in 8 games, and that is after being held pointless for a few in the start. He also has an expected goals value of 4.2, only second to Kempe at 4.4. This amount is good for 22nd in the league among all players, with goals above expected being -1.2. It's clear there is amount of luck going against him in general, but when he's on the ice there is a insane amount of quality looks.

His on-ice corsi and Fenwick is also 60%, which is quite good. He controls possession while on the ice.

Unfortunately, for the eye test he has a lanky man's syndrome. He's so tall that he doesn't appear to be moving fast or with effort, and he has a bad habit of standing straight up while gliding so he looks lazy and unengaged. He also hasn't really figured out the 1-3-1 yet, and will usually opt for the high end poke check off the rush instead of skating backwards with the entry and trying to get the puck back.

To me, it seems like thing should turn around at some point once pucks start going in. But, I would like him to look more like Kopitar and Danault and seem more engaged in the play. I think that is where he would start to transition into being very dominant.

 

[lexlavender]

Mods please remove

 

[Bandit]

However, this i can appreciate, and is good to see

Which part? Being Mic’d up?

 

[bland]

I'm basing that on what I've seen this year with Byfield when it comes to him carrying it in the zone. He doesn't do that particularly well yet, especially when receiving a pass back around the blueline like the Kings usually break out. He tends to get stood up at the blue line often when trying that. I don't think that's disingenuous at all, it's based on observation.

I get the short term/long-term thing, but regardless of how we feel they should have been rebuilding, they are going for it now. I was just analyzing whether this team is better now than it was last year with the changes and puts them closer to their goal of winning in the short term.

I think the main issue with Byfield's zone entries is that he keeps getting isolated at the blueline because that lines spacing is all over the place. Kempe is usually at the far side of the rink and Kopitar is so far behind him in those situations that he gets converged upon as soon as he hits the blueline. Very little support on display in those instances.

The talent gets them points, but when was the last time you saw the attack triangle Fox raves about on that line? Its exceedingly rare. Switching up Dubois and Byfield would do wonders for the first line. Dubois would create a lot more room and traffic. Kopitar has never met a cycle he didn't love, and he would have more opportunities for sustained pressure, and Kempe can work off the puck from both of them.

Fiala is going to do his thing with anybody, and in just a small sample size it looks like Laferriere would benefit from a center who can keep up with his pace.

 

[bland]

Lost in the argument of trade value is the fact that the Kings did what a bunch of people were advocating for, which is making room for younger players to step forward and contribute. It is a effectively 3-for-1 trade, so a net loss of 2 players. That’s two spots on the wing, which are now occupied by Laferriere and Kaliyev. No trade, maybe Kaliyev is stuck next to Lizotte and Laferriere is toiling in the AHL not getting power play time.

It is said that the team that gets the most dynamic player in a trade wins it. Blake made the trade knowing he had depth ready to go. It didn’t make sense at the time to me because of the cap and the value, but there’s underlying value in making roster space for young players.

You don't consider Vilardi and Kupari as young players?

And if Arvidsson, an older player, didn't get hurt then there is no room for one of Kaliyev or Laferriere. Its kind of like praising them for bringing up Durzi when he was like the 11th different defenseman to play that year.

right we always rush our prospects ... laughs in coach

You missed the point completely.

 

[LAKings88]

Losing Vilardi sucked but I have a feeling they were concerned with his health. No proof just a hunch.

Iaffalo and Kupari were just redundant in LA and replaced by cheaper options.

PLD is a good player and I like what he brings. Hoping he can get into the 80-90 point range.

 

[King'sPawn]

I think the main issue with Byfield's zone entries is that he keeps getting isolated at the blueline because that lines spacing is all over the place. Kempe is usually at the far side of the rink and Kopitar is so far behind him in those situations that he gets converged upon as soon as he hits the blueline. Very little support on display in those instances.

The talent gets them points, but when was the last time you saw the attack triangle Fox raves about on that line? Its exceedingly rare. Switching up Dubois and Byfield would do wonders for the first line. Dubois would create a lot more room and traffic. Kopitar has never met a cycle he didn't love, and he would have more opportunities for sustained pressure, and Kempe can work off the puck from both of them.

Fiala is going to do his thing with anybody, and in just a small sample size it looks like Laferriere would benefit from a center who can keep up with his pace.

These are fair and thoughtful details. I admit, I'm just a bit gunshy of endorsing this because Byfield is finding his groove and getting confidence alongside Kopitar.

And while Fiala is much more talented than Athanasiou, he still plays a high-octane, semi-chaotic game. And Byfield just didn't show good chemistry that year.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I think any situation that forces Byfield to play like Fiala is best for his long term development.

Byfield clearly has the speed and skill to create some incredible offense by himself, but his respect and deference to Kempitar torpedos his production.

I also think PLD could potentially be great with Kempitar.

 

[bland]

These are fair and thoughtful details. I admit, I'm just a bit gunshy of endorsing this because Byfield is finding his groove and getting confidence alongside Kopitar.

And while Fiala is much more talented than Athanasiou, he still plays a high-octane, semi-chaotic game. And Byfield just didn't show good chemistry that year.

The Kings are going to have to be patient with him wherever they slot him. Obviously wing is an easier place to hide deficiencies than up the middle, so I totally get why he is there.

If they want to make this team even better right now, I think putting Dubois with Kempe and Kopitar is the best thing they could do. It takes the shine off of Fiala's line, but he has history of putting up damn good offense with kids. I don't know how much "real" balance would be thrown off, but I see the argument for that perception.

 

[PROUD PAPA]

Just stopped in to say it’s nice seeing a rejuvenated Doughty. He’s a fun player to watch when he’s on his game.

 

[Fishhead]

I think the main issue with Byfield's zone entries is that he keeps getting isolated at the blueline because that lines spacing is all over the place. Kempe is usually at the far side of the rink and Kopitar is so far behind him in those situations that he gets converged upon as soon as he hits the blueline. Very little support on display in those instances.

The talent gets them points, but when was the last time you saw the attack triangle Fox raves about on that line? Its exceedingly rare. Switching up Dubois and Byfield would do wonders for the first line. Dubois would create a lot more room and traffic. Kopitar has never met a cycle he didn't love, and he would have more opportunities for sustained pressure, and Kempe can work off the puck from both of them.

Fiala is going to do his thing with anybody, and in just a small sample size it looks like Laferriere would benefit from a center who can keep up with his pace.

I think that's exactly it. I can't count the times I've seen him cut to the middle and get stuck between two defenders. I was thinking the same kind of thing, just with Laf instead of Dubois. I think either would work, because you are right, they don't triangle and there is very little cycling. They are holding possession and their metrics are high, but it's because they do the spread thing and are going all the way around with the puck.

 

[johnjm22]

After last game, the Lizotte line is now up to 50% xG% (they were 75% against Vegas).

That means every one of the Kings forward lines is 50%+. That's pretty damn good.

The King's bottom D-pair of Englund-Spence has improved to 45%. Not bad. It matches the eyeball test. They've steadily gotten better.