LA KINGS 2023/4 Regular season discussion

[Fishhead]

PLD has affected matchups greatly. There is a reason the scoring is so spread out between lines, it's because it's a pick-your-poison. That's led to being a full goal per game ahead of last year so far.

Byfield is playing great, but he doesn't require a solid defensive guy in response, especially at center. His current effectiveness is tied to using speed to pursue and retrieve down the boards which will go away if he's at center and is coming up from deeper in the zone. Fiala isn't good at that and Vilardi doesn't have the speed, so it's a much easier matchup to deal with, force a dump and chip it out. Byfield isn't there yet with regards to carrying it in the zone.

It does look lateral more or less by production, but the effect of having 3 solid, experienced centers can't be overstated.

 

[Kudelski37]

Viewed in isolation, D.

One thing the trade has done is to realign the lines in really good way. Now the Kings have four balanced lines, each with strong centers and young wingers. All four lines are being productive. I don't know if that happens without the trade, but that's an alternate universe question. The lines are more balanced this year than last, and the trade is playing a big role.

Byfield-Kopitar-Kempe 8 goals 20 points
Fiala-Dubois-Kaliyev 5 goals 20 points
Moore-Danault-Laferriere 8 goals 14 points
Grundstrom-Lizotte-Lewis 7 goals 13 points

The fourth line is the only one producing more goals than last October and that was just on Lemieux as Lizotte and Grundstrom still had 5 goals like this year.

 

[johnjm22]

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

PLD has affected matchups greatly. There is a reason the scoring is so spread out between lines, it's because it's a pick-your-poison. That's led to being a full goal per game ahead of last year so far.

Byfield is playing great, but he doesn't require a solid defensive guy in response, especially at center. His current effectiveness is tied to using speed to pursue and retrieve down the boards which will go away if he's at center and is coming up from deeper in the zone. Fiala isn't good at that and Vilardi doesn't have the speed, so it's a much easier matchup to deal with, force a dump and chip it out. Byfield isn't there yet with regards to carrying it in the zone.

It does look lateral more or less by production, but the effect of having 3 solid, experienced centers can't be overstated.

I mostly agree, I'm just kind of playing devil's advocate with it. But I also think this undersells Iafallo's and Vilardi's (RIP) impacts as well as begs @bland 's question re: is this actually better for the future. It's at least debatable. And I think there's a case to be made for PLD's contract vs. the flexibility of short terms on Vilardi/Iafallo. For better or worse, they're locked to PLD for the forseeable future.

hell even last season that Iafallo-Byfield-Vilardi line was rocket fuel.

 

[bland]

PLD has affected matchups greatly. There is a reason the scoring is so spread out between lines, it's because it's a pick-your-poison. That's led to being a full goal per game ahead of last year so far.

Byfield is playing great, but he doesn't require a solid defensive guy in response, especially at center. His current effectiveness is tied to using speed to pursue and retrieve down the boards which will go away if he's at center and is coming up from deeper in the zone. Fiala isn't good at that and Vilardi doesn't have the speed, so it's a much easier matchup to deal with, force a dump and chip it out. Byfield isn't there yet with regards to carrying it in the zone.

It does look lateral more or less by production, but the effect of having 3 solid, experienced centers can't be overstated.

Byfield is effective doing what he is being asked to do, its a bit disingenuous to suggest that he wouldn't be equally effective at other responsibilities - especially ones he will eventually be required to perform.

And again, we are basing this off of how it looks NOW, as though that should be the priority. This team simply isn't a contender. Dubois is under contract for 7 more seasons. Long-term thinking is still the best approach, and the funny thing is that the team is already two years into that NOW without anything to show for it.

Fiala produced with Lizotte. Dubois is much closer to being a passenger than a driver.

 

[Schrute farms]

Sorry, but if PLD can't be a center and has to move to a winger spot, then that trade is a fail. You don't give all those assets up and give him a 8 year 68M contract to be a winger. The guy would need to be an elite 40+ goal sniper scorer or a 20+ goal imposing PF. you make this trade and give him that contract to be a top 1-2 line center. Otherwise it's a fail.

 

[johnjm22]

 

[johnjm22]

Kings needed another top 9 center.

Vilardi failed, Kupari failed, Byfield failed, Lizotte failed.

They either had to hope QB could find his game this year and become that center, or they had to go out and get one.

Since PLD is 25, he fits a long term need as well as an immediate need.

 

[Kudelski37]

PLD has affected matchups greatly. There is a reason the scoring is so spread out between lines, it's because it's a pick-your-poison. That's led to being a full goal per game ahead of last year so far.

Byfield is playing great, but he doesn't require a solid defensive guy in response, especially at center. His current effectiveness is tied to using speed to pursue and retrieve down the boards which will go away if he's at center and is coming up from deeper in the zone. Fiala isn't good at that and Vilardi doesn't have the speed, so it's a much easier matchup to deal with, force a dump and chip it out. Byfield isn't there yet with regards to carrying it in the zone.

It does look lateral more or less by production, but the effect of having 3 solid, experienced centers can't be overstated.

Has PLD? Only the 4th line is more productive this year, but that is only due to Lemieux's struggles last year.

 

[bland]

Kings needed another top 9 center.

Vilardi failed, Kupari failed, Byfield failed, Lizotte failed.

They either had to hope QB could find his game this game this year and become that center, or they had to go out and get one.

None of those players failed at anything.

They were prematurely asked to perform immediately so an old nag could somehow compete in a race that it couldn't possibly win.

This is a managerial problem, not a personnel issue.

 

[Kudelski37]

Kings needed another top 9 center.

Vilardi failed, Kupari failed, Byfield failed, Lizotte failed.

They either had to hope QB could find his game this game this year and become that center, or they had to go out and get one.

Byfield has played about 50 games at center in the NHL. Vilardi played about 70. I'm thinking that isn't enough time to tell if rookies/prospects are long term fits at a position...especially if the option is trading for a guy that regularly splits time between wing and center after 100s of games in the NHL

 

[johnjm22]

None of those players failed at anything.

They were prematurely asked to perform immediately so an old nag could somehow compete in a race that it couldn't possibly win.

This is a managerial problem, not a personnel issue.

Byfield has played about 50 games at center in the NHL. Vilardi played about 70. I'm thinking that isn't enough time to tell if rookies/prospects are long term fits at a position...especially if the option is trading for a guy that regularly splits time between wing and center after 100s of games in the NHL

We're trying to win right now. We're not rebuilding.

 

[Kudelski37]

We're trying to win right now. We're not rebuilding.

Yet the team was better before trading for PLD so they are doing neither.

 

[Fishhead]

I mostly agree, I'm just kind of playing devil's advocate with it. But I also think this undersells Iafallo's and Vilardi's (RIP) impacts as well as begs @bland 's question re: is this actually better for the future. It's at least debatable. And I think there's a case to be made for PLD's contract vs. the flexibility of short terms on Vilardi/Iafallo. For better or worse, they're locked to PLD for the forseeable future.

hell even last season that Iafallo-Byfield-Vilardi line was rocket fuel.

It's interesting to debate it. The future part, who knows? Iafallo was not going to be around and Kupari was meh, that hinges on Vilardi and whatever we would have used that cap space for. The cap/term is the biggest thing for me, PLD has to live up to that or it's a negative. If he falls off at the end, fine whatever, but for his productive years he absolutely has to bring it.

AI did bring a lot, but he was falling off a bit last year. Injury had to do with that I think. He's a 38 point swiss army knife, which is good to have. And like you stated, there was roster flexibility there. But is Laferriere up this year if AI is still around? I highly doubt it, there wouldn't be space on the roster. That was an unforeseen perk of the trade, I think.

 

[johnjm22]

hell even last season that Iafallo-Byfield-Vilardi line was rocket fuel.

It was, but watching it I think it was mostly driven by Vilardi's elite level play. Which probably wasn't sustainable.

Even though I felt the Kings needed a center, I was against the PLD trade initially because I didn't want to lose Gabe. In hindsight however, it was probably the right move considering Gabe's injuries and apparent inability to hold down the center position. PLD and Gabe are similar in age.

 

[King'sPawn]

Exhibit A of why going purely by numbers is silly.

Problem is, Kempe is largely still the same player he was last year. The puck's just not going in yet this year.

 

[Statto]

Changing from PLD to the other additions.

Talbot for one million. Solid.

Englund for one million. Liking this. Kings had MacDermid and didn’t have confidence in him playing top 6D. Colorado is playing him at forward now. Lemieux had one good year and then was injured and inconsistent. Now the Kings have a D man who can make the simple play and fight basically anyone. Don’t make me comment on McEwen. Remember Englund is a former 2nd round pick, so he has some pedigree. Same with Lemieux also I guess.

Also, looks like Englund and Kempe have a history.

To be fair he’s winning me over.

 

[Fishhead]

Yet the team was better before trading for PLD so they are doing neither.

I don't know if they were better. Last year at this time they were 4-4, had scored 7 fewer goals, and allowed 5 more than this year (2g from SO losses).

And their schedule to open this year has been much more difficult.

It's really to early to call it either way, but there is a lot more evidence that they are better vs worse.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I don't know if they were better. Last year at this time they were 4-4, had scored 7 fewer goals, and allowed 5 more than this year (2g from SO losses).

And their schedule to open this year has been much more difficult.

It's really to early to call it either way, but there is a lot more evidence that they are better vs worse.

Nope, doing it wrong...they traded Vilardi, and aren't playing Clarke, there's ZERO chance of them being better....at all....ever. They are now permanent bottom dwellers

 

[Statto]

I don’t know how the training staff isn’t considered a legitimate issue. I’ve never seen so much players health be so mismanaged

You assume they didn’t report injuries and recovery correctly because it could easily be a coach/player decisions over ruling the medical advice. It happens all the time across sport. Also with Vilardi last year we have no idea if the two absences were the same problem of two completely different ones.

 

[unicornpig]

Lol at the usual suspects crying about the PLD trade

Yet the team was better before trading for PLD so they are doing neither.

You know this 8 games into the season....

 

[unicornpig]

I mostly agree, I'm just kind of playing devil's advocate with it. But I also think this undersells Iafallo's and Vilardi's (RIP) impacts as well as begs @bland 's question re: is this actually better for the future. It's at least debatable. And I think there's a case to be made for PLD's contract vs. the flexibility of short terms on Vilardi/Iafallo. For better or worse, they're locked to PLD for the forseeable future.

hell even last season that Iafallo-Byfield-Vilardi line was rocket fuel.

PLD is one year older than Vilardi and Vilardi is shocker injured again. Iafallo is about to turn 30 and and would continue to gatekeep younger wingers from coming up. Everyone wants to complain about how the young wingers aren't given a chance to move up but want to keep wingers like Iafallo and arvidsson. Kupari is doing nothing just like he did in LA

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Nope, doing it wrong...they traded Vilardi, and aren't playing Clarke, there's ZERO chance of them being better....at all....ever. They are now permanent bottom dwellers

Don't forget that they are playing Byfield at wing which is prime example of player mismanagement. Byfield is a center, that's it, end of story...he even told me so.

 

[Fishhead]

Byfield is effective doing what he is being asked to do, its a bit disingenuous to suggest that he wouldn't be equally effective at other responsibilities - especially ones he will eventually be required to perform.

And again, we are basing this off of how it looks NOW, as though that should be the priority. This team simply isn't a contender. Dubois is under contract for 7 more seasons. Long-term thinking is still the best approach, and the funny thing is that the team is already two years into that NOW without anything to show for it.

Fiala produced with Lizotte. Dubois is much closer to being a passenger than a driver.

I'm basing that on what I've seen this year with Byfield when it comes to him carrying it in the zone. He doesn't do that particularly well yet, especially when receiving a pass back around the blueline like the Kings usually break out. He tends to get stood up at the blue line often when trying that. I don't think that's disingenuous at all, it's based on observation.

I get the short term/long-term thing, but regardless of how we feel they should have been rebuilding, they are going for it now. I was just analyzing whether this team is better now than it was last year with the changes and puts them closer to their goal of winning in the short term.

 

[Fishhead]

I know Byfield has always played center, but since he moved to wing I have to admit he has a lot of desirable qualities that match the position. He basically is just lacking the finishing part.

He's taken clear steps this year, and he's starting to remind me a lot of Carter. Big, fast, and can play any forward position as needed. Good on the boards, good in front of the net. He's faster than Carter I think but doesn't have his edge work. Shot not as good, but vision and passing better.

I don't think he'll have any problem shifting to the middle later in his career.