LA KINGS 2023/4 Regular season discussion

[Herby]

Jesse,

Then why are none of these questions ever asked? Why is the 2019 draft thing never mentioned anywhere, not even brought up to discuss as potential rumor?

What happens if when Glen Murray lied on your podcast you followed it up and said, "But Glen, what about the (and you could have named two dozen players under 23) who never played in the AHL? You don't think you would have faced consequences? Same thing with Yannetti when he lied on your podcast, what if you had said "I don't remember Kopitar, Doughty, Simmonds, Clifford, Quick, Johnson, O'Sullivan being slow-cooked", again, no consequence? If that is the case, why do you let those guys lie to you? I know you are a long-time fan and follow the league, and you know both those things are complete BS. Everytime Yanetti does these podcasts it's brought up how "transparent" and how he "tells it like it is", so if hes such a good dude and transparent with everything, why shouldn't he have to explain why he is being untruthful?


These questions are pretty signifcant about some players the Kings used high picks on, but are never asked

"Why was Alex Turcotte pulled from school after such a disappointing season to be put in the AHL as a teenager and not left at college level like everyone else was?"

"why wasn't QB in the NHL when 18 of the previous 20 top 2 forward picks were?"

"Why was Bjornfot sent back to the AHL after 2 seasons in the NHL"

"Why is Brandt Clarke in the AHL"

If you guys are really allowed to ask those kind of questions and call out the lies said on your shows and you choose not to, well then maybe I shouldn't be mad at the Kings.

 

[Herby]

Jesse, you are wayyyyy too nice.

It's called having an adult discussion. People are able to talk to each other normally and bring facts and opinions to the table and have disagreements without resorting to calling peoples Ducks fans, making strawman arguments and doing things to get themselves banned or suspended from the board. Others choose to act like 7 year olds and become the most disliked member of the community. Congrats.

 

[DoktorJeep]

This is a disagreement I have with Dennis Bernstein all the time.

The "LA loves stars babayyyyy" attitude.

It's anecdotal but I'll repeat here what I always tell him ...

My best friend was born and raised in Southern California. He's a sports fan. He's always been a sports fan. He's fortunate enough to make a tremendous amount of money.

He owns season tickets to the football and basketball teams in the city he went to college. He does not live there anymore but he will travel there when he has the time. He has three sons. They will all undoubtedly grow up as sports fans. He has fathead stickers in his master bathroom.

His best friend and the best man at his wedding works for the LA Kings in a public facing capacity (me).

He does not care about hockey. He does not know who Connor Bedard is. He barely knows who Connor McDavid is. He goes to one Kings game a year at best and it's usually to celebrate my birthday. I don't know what else we can do to capture his attention but I don't think it's as simple as "getting a star".


So I'm told.

I get your opinion, but I’d argue small sample size and your example is anecdotal.

Look at the other sports teams. They win with stars across decades. It’s how you grow fans here.

Why does it work for other teams but not the Kings? To blame it on ice hockey alone is an excuse for why the Kings will never be #1 in the market. But where do you think they rank? They’re not even top 5 which is the problem.

Dodgers
Lakers
Rams
USC football
Clippers
Chargers
MLS (I don’t even know the team names, but they’re more popular than the Kings)
Kings or maybe UCLA football.

 

[All The Kings Men]

I get your opinion, but I’d argue small sample size and your example is anecdotal.

You're not wrong.

 

[All The Kings Men]

Why does it work for other teams but not the Kings? To blame it on ice hockey alone is an excuse for why the Kings will never be #1 in the market.

I don't think it's JUST that it's ice hockey (tho I do think that's a huge part)

It's also that local media outlets were for the entirety of my youth openly antagonistic to hockey at worst and lazy or dismissive in their coverage at best.

The Brad Doty joke didn't spring up out of nowhere and TJ Simmers wrote derisively about hockey for the Page 2 column of the LA Times for years.

It's not part of the culture and then on top of that it was treated as a joke for a very long time. I can remember Luc Robitaille being a guest on the Arsenio Hall show when I was a kid and they had him do a little skit/demonstration on fighting.

He was a good sport about it but that's what we're looking at here.

And for all the cute chuckels and repetition SNL gets for their Chance the Rapper hockey sketch that's just perpetuating the same attitude.

I don't have the solution but I think the idea that there's some kind of quick fix cure-all solution like "getting a star for hollyweird" isn't going to get it done.

But where do you think they rank? They’re not even top 5 which is the problem.

Dodgers
Lakers
Rams
USC football
Clippers
Chargers
MLS (I don’t even know the team names, but they’re more popular than the Kings)
Kings or maybe UCLA football.

Maybe it's just me but I've never been concerned with where the Kings rank in popularity. I've only ever cared that the Kings are treated with respect.

ok I really have to stop now

 

[All The Kings Men]

Jesse,

Then why are none of these questions ever asked? Why is the 2019 draft thing never mentioned anywhere, not even brought up to discuss as potential rumor?

I can't speak for other people but most of the time because I either don't care about a particular issue, don't believe what I've heard or I'm prioritizing my time.

If I get 20 minutes with Rob Blake... I'm not going to waste 5 minutes fighting with him about something I don't care about just to satisfy a portion of the fan base that I know wants me to.

No offense intended but I don't agree with all of your takes and I'm less likely to pursue those types of questions.

What happens if when Glen Murray lied on your podcast you followed it up and said, "But Glen, what about the (and you could have named two dozen players under 23) who never played in the AHL? You don't think you would have faced consequences?

Honestly I didn't follow up on that question because I didn't hear it the same way you did because I don't agree with your overall position and so I'm not passionately looking for opportunities to catch people up in what you perceive to be inconsistencies.

Also... as I said previously... I'm prioritizing my time. Part of my job is running a clock in my brain and timing out the conversation so that it flows in an entertaining fashion while also coming in at a specific time frame and if I do say so myself I've gotten really good at it.

BUT... when it comes to the development question I think I've made my position clear over the years (altho I don't expect anyone to remember it) and I simply think the answers aren't that complicated so on the occasion that I am told something that I might push back on in different circumstances I'm probably just going to move on in the hopes of maximizing my time.

Same thing with Yannetti when he lied on your podcast, what if you had said "I don't remember Kopitar, Doughty, Simmonds, Clifford, Quick, Johnson, O'Sullivan being slow-cooked", again, no consequence? If that is the case, why do you let those guys lie to you?

I rarely go into these conversations with any kind of agenda. I feel like my job is to get as much information that will be as interesting as possible to as many people as possible in the amount of time I feel like I can comfortably take.

If you think Yannetti lied to me that's your right. It didn't register as a lie to me probably because I don't feel as passionately as you do about the AHL/development conversation.

I know you are a long-time fan and follow the league, and you know both those things are complete BS. Everytime Yanetti does these podcasts it's brought up how "transparent" and how he "tells it like it is", so if hes such a good dude and transparent with everything, why shouldn't his lies be called out?

I just really don't feel as passionately as you do about this topic. I genuinely feel like you feel let down on this whole issue and I feel for you in that regard but at the end of the day I think I'm just coming at all of it from a different frame of mind and so the likelihood of me being able to explain my motivations in a satisfactory manor is pretty slim.

These questions are pretty signifcant about some players the Kings used high picks on, but are never asked

"Why was Alex Turcotte pulled from school after such a disappointing season to be put in the AHL as a teenager and not left at college level like everyone else was?"

"why wasn't QB in the NHL when 18 of the previous 20 top 2 forward picks were?"

"Why was Bjornfot sent back to the AHL after 2 seasons in the NHL"

"Why is Brandt Clarke in the AHL"

If you guys are really allowed to ask those kind of questions and call out the lies said on your shows and you choose not to, well then maybe I shouldn't be mad at the Kings.

I will say that sometimes the reason the question doesn't get asked is because I think I know what the answer will be.

Let's take the Bjornfot question because it's the simplest and one that was contradicted by a guest on my program in a way that I do wish I had asked about when I had the chance (but I didn't prioritize it)

Why was Bjornfot sent back to the AHL after 2 seasons in the NHL?

the following answer isn't official it's just why I THINK he was sent back to the AHL despite the fact that I was told by a development staff member on ATKM in 2022 that they hoped to see him play a number of games in 2022-23


The Answer (in my mind)

The organization believed that Sean Durzi brought value to the team through his personality/moxie/confidence/intangibles that couldn't be ignored.

Matt Roy, Mikey Anderson and Drew Doughty were locks to be on the roster. Alex Edler had demonstrated his value in 2021-22. Sean Walker was coming off of a major injury but still carried a significant cap hit that couldn't just be buried.

SO... they were always going to play

44/8
?/3
2/26

The reason nobody ever pushed hard on the Bjornfot question is because we think we know the answer. Regardless of how I may have felt about the answer (and to be clear I'm not sure I felt any particular way about it) the reason I never asked or made it a priority to ask is because I felt like I understood the situation and why it played out how it did.

I'm not scared of being reprimanded and I don't think I would be if I asked... I just don't think I would learn anything valuable by asking and I have to not only prioritize my time and my efforts but I'm also aware that it's not JUST my time.

Reporters frequently share their time and access to players and executives and creating a tense environment or a hostile one also damages everybody elses experience.


OK I REALLY HAVE TO STOP NOW

 

[King'sPawn]

Threatening to take away access because someone would ask some of the simple questions that I used as examples is a pretty damn shitty look, but we all know it's the reality of the situation with this team. There is no real independent media covering the team, so the team is able to essentially control the narrative that is reported, with threats of losing access should the team line not be towed by any of their media "partners". Jessie and Dooley would simply be fired, and Mayor would lose his access to interviews if they wrote an article or mentioned on their podcast the same things that Rosen did about Turcotte/Zegras, Blake overriding the scouts and the Tony Granato thing. Rosen said he heard it through multiple sources, so its safe to say Hoven heard the same thing, yet as far as I know it was never mentioned it once, that is a pretty big story that had it happened today would NEVER be reported.

It's like an authoritarian or totalitarian governent with its state run media.

Well, again, I could be wrong, and Jesse's response above seems to confirm that's the case. I've not had any threats or wordings like that directed at me. And maybe stuff like this is on me for not asking Hoven (or any other media person) directly. I figure he already hears it from fans, though, and I just don't want to add to it (plus, as for myself, I don't want to tell someone what content to point out).

According to Jesse, there's no backlash for having overly critical pieces. He's closer to it than I am, so I'll take him at his word. I've not conducted an interview or gone through any process of getting press credentials - I write in a very narrow scope.

I'll try to be careful in future responses as I've already fanned the flames inadvertently. I'll just leave it with this - I honestly believe the media folks (Gann, Jesse, Hoven, etc) give the best content and information they can and have. I also believe there are constraints, whether explicit or implicit, which impact their content. Jesse gave a very thoughtful response to Herby above, which also serves as constraints - time being one of them.

 

[All The Kings Men]

According to Jesse, there's no backlash for having overly critical pieces. He's closer to it than I am, so I'll take him at his word. I've not conducted an interview or gone through any process of getting press credentials - I write in a very narrow scope.

Man I really need to stop BUT...

I don't want to speak for others.

I've never been told of any backlash over critical pieces.

If someone claims they have I don't want to be on the record as contradicting their personal experience. I'm just not aware of it ever having happened.

EDIT: ok for reals I'm done now

 

[King'sPawn]

Man I really need to stop BUT...

I don't want to speak for others.

I've never been told of any backlash over critical pieces.

If someone claims they have I don't want to be on the record as contradicting their personal experience. I'm just not aware of it ever having happened.

EDIT: ok for reals I'm done now

I understand, and I'm sorry if I made it appear otherwise. I just meant that you're more likely to hear it than me. Just moreso deferring to your experiences as more valid to how media is handled than I.

 

[DoktorJeep]

I don't think it's JUST that it's ice hockey (tho I do think that's a huge part)

It's also that local media outlets were for the entirety of my youth openly antagonistic to hockey at worst and lazy or dismissive in their coverage at best.

The Brad Doty joke didn't spring up out of nowhere and TJ Simmers wrote derisively about hockey for the Page 2 column of the LA Times for years.

It's not part of the culture and then on top of that it was treated as a joke for a very long time. I can remember Luc Robitaille being a guest on the Arsenio Hall show when I was a kid and they had him do a little skit/demonstration on fighting.

He was a good sport about it but that's what we're looking at here.

And for all the cute chuckels and repetition SNL gets for their Chance the Rapper hockey sketch that's just perpetuating the same attitude.

I don't have the solution but I think the idea that there's some kind of quick fix cure-all solution like "getting a star for hollyweird" isn't going to get it done.

Maybe it's just me but I've never been concerned with where the Kings rank in popularity. I've only ever cared that the Kings are treated with respect.

ok I really have to stop now

Those are fine examples of poor coverage by mass media local outlets, but all teams across sports face that same type of disrespect regularly. I think the salient points here are that discussion worthy media coverage of the team is as poor as it’s ever been, and management escapes scrutiny because of a lack of reporters. And these phenomena exist due to not enough fans in a market that can support a massive number.

If there were more fans, there would be more reporters. If there were more reporters, you would get more critical coverage. I feel we missed an opportunity when The Athletic hired Lisa Dillman instead of Jon Rosen. Dillman was a solid reporter, but her coverage wasn’t as entertaining as Rosens when it came to Kings hockey. Even though Rosen’s quirks may have not worked with a larger audience, I think he could have grown coverage with the resources available.

Unfortunately, I believe the ship has sailed when it comes to a respected sports journalist holding management to account and getting some national discussion. We’ve seen the last with Helene Elliot, and in retrospect, I have come to appreciate her, even if I didn’t find her writing entertaining back at the time.

It’s really a futile discussion because we’re not going to solve these types of problems by discussing them on a fan board. I do think it is important to be aware that those with media access aren’t incentivized to be critical and fans shouldn’t expect it.

 

[tigermask48]

My bottom line to use a video game/tech analogy (hopefully this isn't lost on everybody) is this; there's a reason I read Gene Park's and Jason Schreier's stuff almost exclusively when it comes to those topics, and isn't because they are just happy to be journalists and don't want to rock the boat.

It's because they are amazing journalists that ask hard questions, vet sources through multiple channels, and aren't afraid of the consequences of holding people/things accountable.

Hockey journalism league wide has no one like that anymore and the ones it did have long since left covering the sport because modern journalism isn't about integrity, accountability, and accuracy anymore (this is almost universal, not just in hockey/sports.) It's all about what gets the most clicks and eyes in a often oversaturated, undercooked, cuttthroat market where you are a couple bad articles from irrelevance.

I don't blame Mayor, he's a product of the system making a living. AtKM gets a paid by the team so not much they can say in an open forum like this.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

I can't speak for other people but most of the time because I either don't care about a particular issue, don't believe what I've heard or I'm prioritizing my time.

If I get 20 minutes with Rob Blake... I'm not going to waste 5 minutes fighting with him about something I don't care about just to satisfy a portion of the fan base that I know wants me to.

No offense intended but I don't agree with all of your takes and I'm less likely to pursue those types of questions.

Honestly I didn't follow up on that question because I didn't hear it the same way you did because I don't agree with your overall position and so I'm not passionately looking for opportunities to catch people up in what you perceive to be inconsistencies.

Also... as I said previously... I'm prioritizing my time. Part of my job is running a clock in my brain and timing out the conversation so that it flows in an entertaining fashion while also coming in at a specific time frame and if I do say so myself I've gotten really good at it.

BUT... when it comes to the development question I think I've made my position clear over the years (altho I don't expect anyone to remember it) and I simply think the answers aren't that complicated so on the occasion that I am told something that I might push back on in different circumstances I'm probably just going to move on in the hopes of maximizing my time.

I rarely go into these conversations with any kind of agenda. I feel like my job is to get as much information that will be as interesting as possible to as many people as possible in the amount of time I feel like I can comfortably take.

If you think Yannetti lied to me that's your right. It didn't register as a lie to me probably because I don't feel as passionately as you do about the AHL/development conversation.

I just really don't feel as passionately as you do about this topic. I genuinely feel like you feel let down on this whole issue and I feel for you in that regard but at the end of the day I think I'm just coming at all of it from a different frame of mind and so the likelihood of me being able to explain my motivations in a satisfactory manor is pretty slim.

I will say that sometimes the reason the question doesn't get asked is because I think I know what the answer will be.

Let's take the Bjornfot question because it's the simplest and one that was contradicted by a guest on my program in a way that I do wish I had asked about when I had the chance (but I didn't prioritize it)

Why was Bjornfot sent back to the AHL after 2 seasons in the NHL?

the following answer isn't official it's just why I THINK he was sent back to the AHL despite the fact that I was told by a development staff member on ATKM in 2022 that they hoped to see him play a number of games in 2022-23


The Answer (in my mind)

The organization believed that Sean Durzi brought value to the team through his personality/moxie/confidence/intangibles that couldn't be ignored.

Matt Roy, Mikey Anderson and Drew Doughty were locks to be on the roster. Alex Edler had demonstrated his value in 2021-22. Sean Walker was coming off of a major injury but still carried a significant cap hit that couldn't just be buried.

SO... they were always going to play

44/8
?/3
2/26

The reason nobody ever pushed hard on the Bjornfot question is because we think we know the answer. Regardless of how I may have felt about the answer (and to be clear I'm not sure I felt any particular way about it) the reason I never asked or made it a priority to ask is because I felt like I understood the situation and why it played out how it did.

I'm not scared of being reprimanded and I don't think I would be if I asked... I just don't think I would learn anything valuable by asking and I have to not only prioritize my time and my efforts but I'm also aware that it's not JUST my time.

Reporters frequently share their time and access to players and executives and creating a tense environment or a hostile one also damages everybody elses experience.


OK I REALLY HAVE TO STOP NOW

Thank you, Jesse. Thank you for splashing some reality on to the countless delusions that litter this board.

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

Turcotte is nearing 23 years old, he is not a kid anymore in the hockey world, he is waiver eligible starting next fall. Playing 4th line in the NHL is better than playing any role for the Reign at this point. He has over 100 games of AHL experience, there is not some budding offensive game or anything else that is going to further develop playing anymore AHL games. He needs to be at the NHL level contributing as a 925k a year player on an ELC.

I agree. I'd love to see it. I just don't love the idea of giving him 4th line ice time but yeah, its definitely better than nothing at this point.

I wish there was a spot in the top 9 for him but 4th line seems most likely. And for all we know that could be a reality as soon as 1-2 months from now. With what we had seen from Turcotte to date, it would've been concerning IMO if the Kings had carved out a 4th line role for him in the offseason given his injury history and underwhelming development.

So there wasn't a roster spot ready for him because you couldn't really bank on him being ready for the roster spot to begin with. He had a great camp and almost made the team which is awesome but at least for now, he's still on the outside looking in. That can certainly change - especially if he continues to play like he's been playing. Really rooting for the guy

 

[kilowatt]

Thank you, Jesse. Thank you for splashing some reality on to the countless delusions that litter this board.

You are the originator of many countless delusions

 

[dman3474]

So did Todd get fired yet?

What goalie are they going to trade for?

I’ve been out of town so I get to watch my first game of the season/preseason tonight!!

 

[fivehole32]

A lot of it comes down to ratings pure and simple. Newspapers and online resources are slowly getting conglomerated. Gannett owns most papers and they generate most content for the masses. They are not in the business to pay a niche sports reporter.

Now why is hockey niche? Appreciation and knowledge of the sport has to be passed down from one generation to another, or a fan has to start playing and gain his firsthand love and knowledge of it and begin following the sport. There are the outliers like me who happened upon it on tv and found it interesting enough to learn about it, but I consider those people less than 1% of the total base.

Outreach to the kids through hockey camps for little ones or what the NFL is down with Nickelodeon broadcasts are the step in the right direction to grow your fanbase and thus increase coverage.

Remember in the early 20th century boxing was the biggest sport in the world, but its fanbase got old and it became a second tier sport. Articles I've read about the NFL is that its popularity peaked 10 years ago. Hence its outreach to kids and gamblers. So nothing last forever and it's up to the current fanbase to keep the flame going for the sport.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

So did Todd get fired yet?

It's getting close. His XBox controller glitched at least 3 times last game, twice allowing Fiala to make boneheaded turnovers and another with Copely to allow a ridiculous goal. Him and his controller are walking a thin line right now...

 

[Kurrilino]

So did Todd get fired yet?

What goalie are they going to trade for?

I’ve been out of town so I get to watch my first game of the season/preseason tonight!!

Actually they negotiate a contract extension for MacTodd right now, as reported

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

What goalie are they going to trade for?

Likely no one for the next month or two so we'll probably have too buckle up and (try to) enjoy the ride as fans.

In a month or two we'll know more about potential goalie targets. But I'll throw out a couple potential options just for fun.

Blackwood (if he's still looking good)
Saros (if NASH continues to struggle and they want to go with a sure thing and guarantee they get top 10 goaltending)
Hart (if he's looking good and the Flyers are out of it)
Ingram or Vejmelka (if Arizona finds themselves struggling/out of it)
Mrazek (has actually looked pretty solid for CHI)
Luukkonen (if Buffalo is looking to move a goalie - although I admit I'm not sure how much of an upgrade he'd be)

There's a handful of potential other options that are probably less likely but ultimately yeah, we'll know more in a month or two.

 

[Fishhead]

I know we all want the media to ask hard-hitting questions, but outside of groups like message boards and the more hardcore fans, who actually digests that content? We all care. Hell, I'm still waiting for that Lombardi book. But the normal So. Cal fan?

The Kings will never have that following, it's just not on the radar. Whether Murray or Yanetti lied is never going to register on the care scale for most people, I would say less than 1% of all Angelinos even know who they are. Asking specifics about those topics when limited time would really only interest a tiny fraction of the sports landscape in LA.

There is always room for improvement, but I'm pretty happy with the coverage overall. I would definitely say the percentage of coverage is higher than the demographics would dictate. Most surveys will indicate that the Galaxy (and now LAFC) are likely more popular than the Kings. Yet I see substantially more hockey coverage from the general media (ESPN, Athletic, etc) than those two teams. Some of that might be that I typically read things in English, which limits sources. And when looking online search engines are always going to target you with content you normally read, so there is that.

 

[Fishhead]

Now why is hockey niche? Appreciation and knowledge of the sport has to be passed down from one generation to another, or a fan has to start playing and gain his firsthand love and knowledge of it and begin following the sport. There are the outliers like me who happened upon it on tv and found it interesting enough to learn about it, but I consider those people less than 1% of the total base.

Remember in the early 20th century boxing was the biggest sport in the world, but its fanbase got old and it became a second tier sport. Articles I've read about the NFL is that its popularity peaked 10 years ago. Hence its outreach to kids and gamblers. So nothing last forever and it's up to the current fanbase to keep the flame going for the sport.

Hockey will always be niche here because of cost. Not just gear, but ice time and other factors that aren't generally available.

Nothing grows interest like gambling, of course. If hockey ever embraced gambling and became a gambling "thing", growth would be immediate. Thing is, the roots of the game are more Canadian, who finally made single-game wagers legal a couple of years ago. Not going to say gambling isn't around in Canada, but it pales in comparison to the money exchanged in USA gambling centers.

 

[chris kontos]

I believe one hell of alot more what i see with the kings than what i read in press releases, beat writers and that rag the athletic.
Jon rosen i think is themost objective and i dont detect too much disgrutled former employee bias. The fact is every published writer on the topic of the kings is biased either by keeping their job or thier access to the team and its players or journalistic ethics. I just watch/read and assess critically.

 

[Statto]

Actually they negotiate a contract extension for MacTodd right now, as reported

It’s done, per Blake on ATKM.

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

I miss dean and his depth charts. Given the current regime are we gonna see Kopitar take Blake’s spot and Doughty take Luc’s? I have had enough nostalgia for the next 2 Jersey changes. .

 

[No Name The Nameless]

I had a dream the Kings went winless in their first 10 so the suits fired Coach. The Luc fired Blake for giving Coach an extension. Luc lived on.

I see this as a premonition. I’m not sure if I’d be happy or upset over thi so I’ll just say that I’m lukewarm…..like the current state of my fandom.