LA KINGS 2023/4 Regular season discussion

[King'sPawn]

If this is the understanding of the way the Kings run, then it sounds like a team that needs far more scathing opinion based articles written about it's lack of accountability and it's fearmongering attitude and threats towards the press rather than reporters falling in line with a "yes sir" and doing as you're told.

Be the change you wish to see and all that.

That's my understanding - and I may be off on that. I've never specifically been told this.

Ultimately, it would be up to the media personalities as far as their feelings and constraints.

 

[All The Kings Men]

If this is the understanding of the way the Kings run, then it sounds like a team that needs far more scathing opinion based articles written about it's lack of accountability and it's fearmongering attitude and threats towards the press rather than reporters falling in line with a "yes sir" and doing as you're told.

Be the change you wish to see and all that.

I will weigh in on this.

The LA Kings, to the best of my knowledge, are NOT antagonistic or punitive towards the media.

Hoven, Gann Matsuda, Russell Morgan and other independent "media outlets" are routinely granted access to the press box, the locker room and private interactions with players and team personnel. In the recent past the team has gone out of it's way to encourage and welcome more independent coverage of the team.

 

[AbsentMojo]

When are these dipshits running the team going to figure out the A is where our top prospects get destroyed. I guess they'll sign this 26 yr old career bum like they did Englund: Glenn Gawdin at eliteprospects.com

 

[kilowatt]

When are these dipshits running the team going to figure out the A is where our top prospects get destroyed. I guess they'll sign this 26 yr old career bum like they did Englund: Glenn Gawdin at eliteprospects.com

I guess to Blake, this is how our young stars "develop". It scrambles their brains.

 

[AbsentMojo]

I guess to Blake, this is how our young stars "develop". It scrambles their brains.

From AHL website.. its supposed to be a development league. If that is their charter, then make it safe for kids to develop.. whats the purpose of these 25+ guys who have no chance making a club and want to help their team by destroying other teams blue chips.

 

[Bandit]

When are these dipshits running the team going to figure out the A is where our top prospects get destroyed. I guess they'll sign this 26 yr old career bum like they did Englund: Glenn Gawdin at eliteprospects.com

f*** Rob Blake. f***ing idiot.

 

[RocketKing]

When are these dipshits running the team going to figure out the A is where our top prospects get destroyed. I guess they'll sign this 26 yr old career bum like they did Englund: Glenn Gawdin at eliteprospects.com

What’s the point of sending down top you players if they’re going to get their brains scrambled by some thug plumbers.

 

[bland]

Not saying this to lessen the clear head shot. Separate issue here, but Clarke could have just as easily been railed cleanly there because he didn't bother to look over shoulder before turning. That's a lesson learned for that young man, pro's don't always have the time to make plays in every spot like in juniors.

 

[Herby]

Would love to get RC some press credentials so we can see tough guy - keyboard warrior, lay down the law.

Do you think when people go on Hoven's show that he, as a supposed professional journalist should ask tough questions? Or do you prefer what he does, be on a nickname basis and lob softball questions that are answered with blatant lies like "Only the McDavid's don't play in the AHL" or "We have slow-cooked everyone since Dean was GM"?

Maybe try answering it without ad-hominem or strawman and just defend your points with facts.

 

[King'sPawn]

Not saying this to lessen the clear head shot. Separate issue here, but Clarke could have just as easily been railed cleanly there because he didn't bother to look over shoulder before turning. That's a lesson learned for that young man, pro's don't always have the time to make plays in every spot like in juniors.

Yeah, the headshot is dirty, but he took way too long to look around and assess his surroundings.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Do you think when people go on Hoven's show that he, as a supposed professional journalist should ask tough questions? Or do you prefer what he does, be on a nickname basis and lob softball questions that are answered with blatant lies like "Only the McDavid's don't play in the AHL" or "We have slow-cooked everyone since Dean was GM"?

Maybe try answering it without ad-hominem or strawman and just defend your points with facts.

First of all, I think it’s hilarious that so many of you think the Kings owe you something….when most of ya are so cheap you are VPNing all the games…thats the extent of your investment, lol.

Secondly, what ‘tough’ questions do you think should be asked where you think you will like the answers?

 

[Herby]

Idk man. This team is super deep. So as a result a player like Turcotte finds himself in the AHL. It's bummer, but things can change. Hence my stance that maybe the sky isn't falling and maybe we'll know more in a month or so. Even his AHL ice time... If he keeps playing well, that could certainly also change.

And who knows, maybe in a month Turcotte is still healthy and still over a PPG in the AHL and management DOES decide to trade a guy like Lizotte to make room for him. I don't love the idea of giving Turcotte 4th line minutes but at least it's a start and would at least give him a chance to become an NHL regular.

Or maybe Laferriere's production never really picks up and after a couple more weeks they decide he needs time in the AHL and at that point if Turcotte is still playing amazing in the AHL they swap the two and give Turcotte a look in the top 9.

And with our goaltending... Maybe Copley and Talbot settle in and 10 games from now we're looking back at these posts like "damn, this team is great.. we kinda jumped the gun with the panic after two games".

If the Kings had gotten even like a .875 save % on Saturday night they win that game by 2 goals against one of the best teams in the league - and that's while playing sloppy and having some egregious turnovers.

This team is so good that really all they need is a .900 save % and they're going to win like 80% of the time. That's insane. And if goaltending doesn't improve... The organization has the assets to make a trade to fix that and in a month or so we should be able to better evaluate what options are out there and what some trade prices might be.

I'm not trying to say management hasn't made bad decisions or that people can't be concerned/frustrated. By all means, go ahead. Just offering another perspective and reminding people there's a world where a lot changes in the next month or two and there's also a scenario where this team is still really really good like 3-4 years down the road despite the things we're (rightfully) complaining about right now.

Byfield looks amazing. Laferriere looks like a gem. Turcotte finally starting to look like a guy who could be a legit middle 6 NHLer sooner rather than later (probably would be right now already if the Kings weren't so deep). Grundstrom looking pretty damn solid. Moore looking like a beast again. The Kings held the Hurricanes to fewer than 20 shots for just the 4th time in the last 5 years. It's early people.

Kermpe hasn't even started scoring yet (we know he will). PLD hasn't started scoring yet (we also know he will).

Personally, I'm gonna give it some time. Ultimately up to everyone else if they choose to do the same but that's my (unprovoked) 2 cents.

Turcotte is nearing 23 years old, he is not a kid anymore in the hockey world, he is waiver eligible starting next fall. Playing 4th line in the NHL is better than playing any role for the Reign at this point. He has over 100 games of AHL experience, there is not some budding offensive game or anything else that is going to further develop playing anymore AHL games. He needs to be at the NHL level contributing as a 925k a year player on an ELC.

 

[chris kontos]

Turcotte is nearing 23 years old, he is not a kid anymore in the hockey world, he is waiver eligible starting next fall. Playing 4th line in the NHL is better than playing any role for the Reign at this point. He has over 100 games of AHL experience, there is not some budding offensive game or anything else that is going to further develop playing anymore AHL games. He needs to be at the NHL level contributing as a 925k a year player on an ELC.

Play him or trade him-whatever happens do something rather than letting him rot.
Any course or action/change would be good for the player and the kings

 

[Herby]

First of all, I think it’s hilarious that so many of you think the Kings owe you something….when most of ya are so cheap you are VPNing all the games…thats the extent of your investment, lol.

Secondly, what ‘tough’ questions do you think should be asked where you think you will like the answers?

I don't VPN any games. I pay for ESPN+, which the NHL gets a cut from. I drive and see the Kings play every time they are in Detroit, Chicago, Minnesota and Columbus as well as a couple of home games a year. I paid over $5k to see the Kings play 7 playoff games in Chicago back to back years. But nice try with the cheap stuff.

As for the questions. Oh I don't know.

1. Why did you guys put Byfield in the AHL when basically every other forward who goes that high in the draft is in the NHL?
2. Why did you guys sign Turcotte when he struggled so much in college and clearly needed more time and growth at that level? Everyone else from that draft who wasn't NHL ready returned to school and all of them have been better than Turcotte as pros, why do the Kings have such different development philosophy from everyone else?
3. Why was Bjornfot sent back to the AHL after being an NHL regular for 2 seasons?
4. Why was Helenius signed and brought over as a teenager instead of being able to grow another year in Finland?
5. Can you explain to us what happened at the 2019 draft with regards to the reported schism with the scouts and GM over the #5 pick? They all like to claim how "transparent" and "truthful" Yanetti is, so why can't he answer this? If he doesn't want to, let him use a no comment.

The Zegras/Turcotte thing was reported by Rosen, it was widely talked about on this and other forums, it was obviously a monumental decision by Blake to override his scouts, but Hoven has never once addressed it, why do you think that is?


When Mark Yannetti lied about everyone slow cooking since the Dean days, maybe bring up that it's not correct? Or at the very least don't continue to amplify the lies. You think it looks good on the integrity of a podcast when they not only don't say a word, but they continue telling the lies?

Same thing with the "Only the McDavids need AHL time", the lists of players who have played in the NHL without any AHL time is pretty large at this point, so why shouldn't a professional journalist point that out when someone comes on his show and pushes such ridiculous BS? Or at the very least like the Yanetti thing, just shut up about it, let them lie and then end it, don't keep pushing the lie on subsequent shows.

You do understand that these are the type of questions that GM's in hockey markets have to face all the time?

There is no independent journalists covering this team now that Rosen threw in the towel, a major sports team in the 2nd largest media market in the country. But you apparently have no issue with that, you like the way it is with state run media.

From AHL website.. its supposed to be a development league. If that is their charter, then make it safe for kids to develop.. whats the purpose of these 25+ guys who have no chance making a club and want to help their team by destroying other teams blue chips.

View attachment 753715

It is a development league, it's just that most teams (for a variety of reasons) try and avoid it completely or minimize it significantly for players they project as high end players (especially forwards).

It's also still a gate driven league, a guy like Tynan is probably a "better" player at that level than a guy like Turcotte is, he's an AHL offensive superstar, and Turcotte just isn't. The more Tynan plays the better chance the Reign have to win. And that is another problem with the AHL model and playing guys with upside to much down there, guys like Tynan are always going to be a thing.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

I don't VPN any games. I pay for ESPN+, which the NHL gets a cut from. I drive and see the Kings play every time they are in Detroit, Chicago, Minnesota and Columbus as well as a couple of home games a year. I paid over $5k to see the Kings play 7 playoff games in Chicago back to back years. But nice try with the cheap stuff.

As for the questions. Oh I don't know.

1. Why did you guys put Byfield in the AHL when basically every other forward who goes that high in the draft is in the NHL?
2. Why did you guys sign Turcotte when he struggled so much in college and clearly needed more time and growth at that level? Everyone else from that draft who wasn't NHL ready returned to school and all of them have been better than Turcotte as pros, why do the Kings have such different development philosophy from everyone else?
3. Why was Bjornfot sent back to the AHL after being an NHL regular for 2 seasons?
4. Why was Helenius signed and brought over as a teenager instead of being able to grow another year in Finland?
5. Can you explain to us what happened at the 2019 draft with regards to the reported schism with the scouts and GM over the #5 pick? They all like to claim how "transparent" and "truthful" Yanetti is, so why can't he answer this? If he doesn't want to, let him use a no comment.


When Mark Yannetti lied about everyone slow cooking since the Dean days, maybe bring up that it's not correct? Or at the very least don't continue to amplify the lies. You think it looks good on the integrity of a podcast when they not only don't say a word, but they continue telling the lies?

Same thing with the "Only the McDavids need AHL time", the lists of players who have played in the NHL without any AHL time is pretty large at this point, so why shouldn't a professional journalist point that out when someone comes on his show and pushes such ridiculous BS? Or at the very least like the Yanetti thing, just shut up about it, let them lie and then end it, don't keep pushing the lie on subsequent shows.

There is no independent journalists covering this team, a major sports team in the 2nd largest media market in the country. But you apparently have no issue with that, you like the way it is with state run

That’s where you are wrong, pal. I do NOT like the way it is. In fact, I cry myself asleep over it…every single night.

We need someone with balls to ask Blake why he likes to eat babies for breakfast. @All The Kings Men , can you toss that one over?

 

[All The Kings Men]

There is no independent journalists covering this team now that Rosen threw in the towel, a major sports team in the 2nd largest media market in the country. But you apparently have no issue with that, you like the way it is with state run media.

I wrote a much longer reply then thought better of it and deleted it but I am curious...

Do you think the reality you just described is the Kings fault?
What qualifies as "independent journalism" in your eyes?

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

I feel like most of us have way more of an issue with how the team is being run as an old boys club as opposed to being a hungry let’s win it all organization.

AEG got the monkey off their back with 2 cups and maybe they don’t feel the need to be the best. They are content with puting some talking heads in charge and making some money while franchise values skyrocket.

Blake and Luc only won 1 cup each as players and they both did so by jumping onto super teams. To be perfectly honest neither has ever come across as the sharpest knives in the drawer. Both of them as far as winning a cup were both born on 3rd base and act like they hit a triple!

I personally would like someone running the club with a little less pedigree and a whole lot more hunger!

 

[Herby]

I wrote a much longer reply then thought better of it and deleted it but I am curious...

Do you think the reality you just described is the Kings fault?
What qualifies as "independent journalism" in your eyes?

Thank you for answering.

No, I don't really think it's the Kings fault. I realize that hockey is a minor sport in LA, and there is no money in covering it. I was told as much by someone with a pretty major sports show in the market that, I sat next to on a flight a few years ago. Although I will say the Kings have been angry with/ maybe censored the people that they hired to cover the team as the LAKI, at least two of those guys (Hammond and Rosen). The LAKI thing was, as I remember correctly originally planned to be someone who was able to be independent and kind of make up for the lack of indepdendent coverage in the media, but then there were instances where Hammond was used as a tool by DL or punished for reporting factual information that angered the team.

Independent would be someone who is either not employed by the team, or someone who is not forced to report in a certain way to maintain their access to the team. We don't have a single person like that, I appreciate what you do and enjoy your podcast, but obviously as someone employed by the team you can't really speak 100% truth.

And now that I remember it, I think the "Only the McDavid's of the world comment" in regards to AHL usage by Murray was made on your show. And look, again I understand your restrictions and walking a tight rope, but it would be nice to have somebody in the media that when lies like that one, or Yanetti's "we slow cooked everyone, going back to the Dean days" would be comfortable enough to point out that both things are BS. When Emerson says, "the plan was always to have QB be a 5-6 year project" I think it would be nice if we had an independent media member that could ask a simple follow up question like, "can I ask why if the plan was to win with 11 and 8 did you draft a 5-6 year project?". I wish we had somebody who was independent enough and not so dependent on the Kings for their very existence to be able to ask those kinds of questions. Those questions are asked in all the Canadian markets, Chicago, Boston, Pittsburgh, Philly, NY. I wish we people like that covering the team, and I do think it would be better if the Kings hired someone (like Rosen) and told him to be a professional journalist and the report the good and the bad with the team, ask the tough questions, but Blake and Luc don't want people that like, it's apparent.

I will say though Jesse, while you have had blatant lies said multiple times on your show by members of the Kings organization, I do appreciate that you don't amplify those lies after the guests have left the show, which isn't the case with other person(s) who cover this team.

 

[Herby]

I don't think Jesse/ATKM should be blamed or lumped in the same group of press that RJ is talking about. And not because I think he's not a legitimate press person - but he's an employee of the organization.

He's also faced plenty of flak for some of his responses (including me), so I think it's kind of shitty, but unsurprising, to try to bring him back into a fight.

There have been questions about others, including MM that I write for, and I get the frustration.

Of course, there are discussions between Hoven and myself I won't share. Not to have any sense of superiority or distance, but because I'm not going to burn him and our friendship, especially over things I don't have the full picture of.

I will say that the questions of some decisions he tries to address in as concilatory but direct manner as possible. They could be minor decisions (like sending Fagemo down before JAD) or ones that have had major backlash (like addressing the PLD trade and the decision-making he knows/can discuss).

My best feedback from MM's perspective is that access is a privilege that can be taken away. He is trying to provide more information and less opinion in his articles. And the opinions he's comfortable sharing will usually be done on the podcast with DB. He's also veered away a bit from rumors as that has burned him.

I get a little bit more "leeway" as far as opinions in my pre-draft articles, because the targeted audience may love the draft and the Kings but won't know some of the details that make him a part of the organization significant. Though largely, it's fluff and intended to be fun.

That said - I'm a Kings fan and I get it. I would love to see more scathing articles and criticism like what Rosen has provided. I also know that access to players, personnel, interviews, and other resources can be taken away if it goes too far.

So, I can't speak for other media folk. And a lot of this feels like an empty explanation that will probably leave the majority of you understandably unsatisfied. But I will say is that Hoven does try to give the best information he can. I don't ask him for specifics, but he probably needs to take a measured approach to maintain his connections. Rosen, as much as I loved his article, is also completely removed and was able to take a scorched earth approach based on tbe information he had while at LAKI. That's not to knock Rosen, but I just want to provide the best response I can with the information I have.

Threatening to take away access because someone would ask some of the simple questions that I used as examples is a pretty damn shitty look, but we all know it's the reality of the situation with this team. There is no real independent media covering the team, so the team is able to essentially control the narrative that is reported, with threats of losing access should the team line not be towed by any of their media "partners". Jessie and Dooley would simply be fired, and Mayor would lose his access to interviews if they wrote an article or mentioned on their podcast the same things that Rosen did about Turcotte/Zegras, Blake overriding the scouts and the Tony Granato thing. Rosen said he heard it through multiple sources, so its safe to say Hoven heard the same thing, yet as far as I know it was never mentioned it once, that is a pretty big story that had it happened today would NEVER be reported.

It's like an authoritarian or totalitarian governent with its state run media.

 

[DoktorJeep]

I wrote a much longer reply then thought better of it and deleted it but I am curious...

Do you think the reality you just described is the Kings fault?
What qualifies as "independent journalism" in your eyes?

In LA you need to win a lot and have big stars to get the attention over all the other options. We’ve seen the good of winning without big stars and the disappointment of losing with them. Neither by themselves give you year over year growth to really be a standout.

It’s not easy to do both, but the team has the resources and marketplace to do it. The only excuse is that it’s hard. Management can’t operate in a vacuum and expect to grow the fan base (and by extension media coverage) by running the old boys club model and sticking to their South Bay bubble.

It’s great they’re all neighbors, but SoCal is so much more than a couple neighborhoods south of the airport. You want to grow the sport in the market, then get some stars a kid in Pico Rivera could look up to and market them there.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Threatening to take away access because someone would ask some of the simple questions that I used as examples is a pretty damn shitty look, but we all know it's the reality of the situation with this team. There is no real independent media covering the team, so the team is able to essentially control the narrative that is reported, with threats of losing access should the team line not be towed by any of their media "partners". Jessie and Dooley would simply be fired, and Mayor would lose his access to interviews if they wrote an article or mentioned on their podcast the same things that Rosen did about Turcotte/Zegras, Blake overriding the scouts and the Tony Granato thing. Rosen said he heard it through multiple sources, so its safe to say Hoven heard the same thing, yet as far as I know it was never mentioned it once, that is a pretty big story that had it happened today would NEVER be reported.

It's like an authoritarian or totalitarian governent with its state run media.

Herby is comparing the Kings org to North Korea. I've heard it all now, lol.

 

[bland]

Mild discomfort to tyrants!

 

[All The Kings Men]

Threatening to take away access because someone would ask some of the simple questions that I used as examples is a pretty damn shitty look, but we all know it's the reality of the situation with this team.

Do we?

Can you give me an example of someone who has received that threat or had their access removed as a result of asking unpopular questions?

There is no real independent media covering the team, so the team is able to essentially control the narrative that is reported, with threats of losing access should the team line not be towed by any of their media "partners".

Andrew Knoll covers the team for the Daily News.
Eric Stephens covers the team for The Athletic.
Dan Greenspan covers the team for NHL.com and the AP.
Austin Stanovich covers the team for The Hockey News.
Dennis Bernstein asks all kinds of unpopular questions.
Frozen Royalty, Hockey Royalty and The Forum Report have all been credentialed and accepted into every Media space there is. They have all at various times said or reported things that were unflattering or openly critical of the organization.

None of them have had their access or credentials removed. If any of them have ever been threatened then I'm unaware of it and to be clear... the members of the media (and me and dooley etc) spend a lot of time together. I suspect I've never heard of antything like that because it's never happened.

Jesse and Dooley would simply be fired,

I don't believe that to be true.

Mayor would lose his access to interviews if they wrote an article or mentioned on their podcast the same things that Rosen did about Turcotte/Zegras, Blake overriding the scouts and the Tony Granato thing. Rosen said he heard it through multiple sources, so its safe to say Hoven heard the same thing, yet as far as I know it was never mentioned it once, that is a pretty big story that had it happened today would NEVER be reported.

That's a lot of assumptions for the level of passion you repeatedly muster when you mention it.

"Sources" in my experience in the hockey world FREQUENTLY disagree. I can't tell you how many times Rosen and Mayor have said things that I heard the exact opposite of.

I don't think it's safe to assume that Hoven and Rosen heard the same things about the same stories because I imagine they talk to different people and on the occasions that they talk to the same people those people probably have very different relationships with both of them than they do with the other.

I would expect my conversations with Yannetti or members of the Analytics team to be different than the conversations that Dooley has with them. Because as Ted Lasso said... all people are different people.

It's like an authoritarian or totalitarian governent with its state run media.

It really isn't. That's all I can say. It just isn't.

EDIT: Also I have to stop now lol so... Go Kings Go. You guys are all awesome even when you're being crazy or making fun of me.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Do we?

Can you give me an example of someone who has received that threat or had their access removed as a result of asking unpopular questions?

Andrew Knoll covers the team for the Daily News.
Eric Stephens covers the team for The Athletic.
Dan Greenspan covers the team for NHL.com and the AP.
Austin Stanovich covers the team for The Hockey News.
Dennis Bernstein asks all kinds of unpopular questions.
Frozen Royalty, Hockey Royalty and The Forum Report have all been credentialed and accepted into every Media space there is. They have all at various times said or reported things that were unflattering or openly critical of the organization.

None of them have had their access or credentials removed. If any of them have ever been threatened then I'm unaware of it and to be clear... the members of the media (and me and dooley etc) spend a lot of time together. I suspect I've never heard of antything like that because it's never happened.

I don't believe that to be true.

That's a lot of assumptions for the level of passion you repeatedly muster when you mention it.

"Sources" in my experience in the hockey world FREQUENTLY disagree. I can't tell you how many times Rosen and Mayor have said things that I heard the exact opposite of.

I don't think it's safe to assume that Hoven and Rosen heard the same things about the same stories because I imagine they talk to different people and on the occasions that they talk to the same people those people probably have very different relationships with both of them than they do with the other.

I would expect my conversations with Yannetti or members of the Analytics team to be different than the conversations that Dooley has with them. Because as Ted Lasso said... all people are different people.

It really isn't. That's all I can say. It just isn't.

EDIT: Also I have to stop now lol so... Go Kings Go. You guys are all awesome even when you're being crazy or making fun of me.

Jesse, you are wayyyyy too nice.

 

[All The Kings Men]

In LA you need to win a lot and have big stars to get the attention over all the other options. We’ve seen the good of winning without big stars and the disappointment of losing with them. Neither by themselves give you year over year growth to really be a standout.

It’s not easy to do both, but the team has the resources and marketplace to do it. The only excuse is that it’s hard. Management can’t operate in a vacuum and expect to grow the fan base (and by extension media coverage) by running the old boys club model and sticking to their South Bay bubble.

It’s great they’re all neighbors, but SoCal is so much more than a couple neighborhoods south of the airport. You want to grow the sport in the market, then get some stars a kid in Pico Rivera could look up to and market them there.

This is a disagreement I have with Dennis Bernstein all the time.

The "LA loves stars babayyyyy" attitude.

It's anecdotal but I'll repeat here what I always tell him ...

My best friend was born and raised in Southern California. He's a sports fan. He's always been a sports fan. He's fortunate enough to make a tremendous amount of money.

He owns season tickets to the football and basketball teams in the city he went to college. He does not live there anymore but he will travel there when he has the time. He has three sons. They will all undoubtedly grow up as sports fans. He has fathead stickers in his master bathroom.

His best friend and the best man at his wedding works for the LA Kings in a public facing capacity (me).

He does not care about hockey. He does not know who Connor Bedard is. He barely knows who Connor McDavid is. He goes to one Kings game a year at best and it's usually to celebrate my birthday. I don't know what else we can do to capture his attention but I don't think it's as simple as "getting a star".

Jesse, you are wayyyyy too nice.

So I'm told.