LA KINGS 2023/4 Regular season discussion

[bland]

I'm sure you'll roll it out after saying how much you claim you respect Kopitar's body of work, even though you continue to ignore my underlying point to this day: Kopitar was not the problem. How the team was developed, organized, and structured was.

If the Kings had accumulated other picks, focused on development, and properly rebuilt the team, more success was attainable within 7 years of tbe extension. Because success was attainable within 7 years of drafting him.

But I am glad you will be able to finally celebrate your own delusion that Kopitar's existence on the team was the problem. You've spent the last 17 years being wrong about him, starting with "The Myth of Anze Kopitar" on LGK.

Kopitar's removal from the team won't do shit when management continues to run the team under delusion and inability to execute or adhere to a plan. Once you figure that out, I have an "I told you so" too... because apparently you still haven't.

No, you have let an emotional attachment to a player blind you over the course of his career.

I don't share the same affection, and I haven't let sentiment prevent me from seeing the truth: Kopitar is not a player you build around. He is an asset, not a focal point. You do not build a franchise around a player who cannot pull from the front, you are setting yourself up for failure.

Kopitar is an outstanding player, a hall of famer, but not a leader. Its no surprise that a team with him as a leader has had such a difficult time overachieving or playing with the kind of emotion needed to rise above challenges. The only success he has seen in his career was when Lombardi correctly realized the weaknesses of his young core and made the right acquisitions to rise above.

He should have been traded in 2015. With the assets Lombardi had to deal to cover for the core's weaknesses - including the ones spent to try for the third - the team was left with almost no cost-controlled assets. Losing Richards, Williams, Mitchell, Scuderi, Stoll, Greene, Regehr and King leave for one lousy 4th round pick combined with the raises and retirement contracts given to the remaining core left the team with no other choice but to rebuild.

But they didn't because they put their faith in players who weren't bad enough to get high picks and not good enough to succeed. It was guaranteed mediocrity. All of this was laid out with plenty of evidence 8 years ago, yet all you seem to care about is the "disrespect" to a player who I have respected plenty.

I don't care for players, I care for the team. It was bad business.

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

Maybe if you write him a letter he will send you an autographed picture.

I'm not even trying to fan girl over him.... Those are just statements of fact.

We are SUPER lucky to have had Kopitar in this organization for the last 18 years and he's still a damn good player - So it's weird that you and a few other posters choose him of all people to throw shade at.

 

[AbsentMojo]

I'm not even trying to fan girl over him.... Those are just statements of fact.

We are SUPER lucky to have had Kopitar in this organization for the last 18 years and he's still a damn good player - So it's weird that you and a few other posters choose him of all people to throw shade at.

I hate to jump in, but he's throwing shade at mgt - yes dumping a bit on Kopi while doing so... and he's right it wouldve been the right thing to do from machevellian perspective.. but not realistic. Extending DD was the death knell though. You could keep Kopi but both of the them and pretend you can build around them while they decline was obviously crazy.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Wrong thread

 

[King'sPawn]

No, you have let an emotional attachment to a player blind you over the course of his career.

I don't share the same affection, and I haven't let sentiment prevent me from seeing the truth: Kopitar is not a player you build around. He is an asset, not a focal point. You do not build a franchise around a player who cannot pull from the front, you are setting yourself up for failure.

Kopitar is an outstanding player, a hall of famer, but not a leader. Its no surprise that a team with him as a leader has had such a difficult time overachieving or playing with the kind of emotion needed to rise above challenges. The only success he has seen in his career was when Lombardi correctly realized the weaknesses of his young core and made the right acquisitions to rise above.

He should have been traded in 2015. With the assets Lombardi had to deal to cover for the core's weaknesses - including the ones spent to try for the third - the team was left with almost no cost-controlled assets. Losing Richards, Williams, Mitchell, Scuderi, Stoll, Greene, Regehr and King leave for one lousy 4th round pick combined with the raises and retirement contracts given to the remaining core left the team with no other choice but to rebuild.

But they didn't because they put their faith in players who weren't bad enough to get high picks and not good enough to succeed. It was guaranteed mediocrity. All of this was laid out with plenty of evidence 8 years ago, yet all you seem to care about is the "disrespect" to a player who I have respected plenty.

I don't care for players, I care for the team. It was bad business.

You ignore that the Kings built around him, Brown, Doughty, and Quick for their cup wins. He wasn't the problem.

How the Kings developed and constructed the team around him and the rest of the core was the problem.

But then how could you say "I told you so" if you admitted that?

Care for the team, indeed. So much so that you've been itching this entire time to take a dump on a singular player. A player that the cup-winning management and coach thought was important enough to keep. Surely you know better than them though.

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

Nahhhhh lol it's just annoying when you have fans disrespecting a guy who has been nothing short of consistently excellent for 16+ years.

The guy is 36 years old and is still the team's top point producer (granted, tied with Kempe). He's led the team in scoring 15 out of the last 16 seasons while being a dominant 200ft player and a Selke caliber 1st line center throughout the entirety of his nearly 18 year career.

2 Stanley Cups, 2 Selke Trophies, 2 Lady Byngs, 1 Mark Messier Leadership Award, 5 time NHL all star, most games played as an LA King with over 1300 games (a testament to his durability).

He eats minutes, wins faceoffs, stays out of the box, blocks shots, kills penalties, and puts up points at an elite level. He's also a great leader and an excellent role model to young players. An all around world class player and person.

And some of y'all are still out here wanting to blame him for the team/organization's shortcomings???? Give me a break.

Saying "an ancient "captain" on his last legs" and insinuating that he's the reason we have cap problems is so utterly patronizing and idiotic it's actually astonishing.

This is the best Los Angeles King of all time we're talking about. Yes he's getting up there in age but he's still playing at an incredibly high level and is still absolutely worth $10 million this year and will likely easily be worth $7 million the next two years (even if he does slow down).

5 would have helped the team win

 

[SmytheKing]

He should have been traded in 2015. With the assets Lombardi had to deal to cover for the core's weaknesses - including the ones spent to try for the third - the team was left with almost no cost-controlled assets. Losing Richards, Williams, Mitchell, Scuderi, Stoll, Greene, Regehr and King leave for one lousy 4th round pick combined with the raises and retirement contracts given to the remaining core left the team with no other choice but to rebuild.

You would have had to trade him in the 2014-2015 season. He had a NMC the next season. When the guys you listed played the following amount of games:

Richards - 39 in Washington
Mitchell - 46 in FLA (two years after leaving and his last year in the league)
Scuderi - 21 in LA and his last year in the league
Stoll - 80 on two different teams and his last year in the league
Greene - 3 in LA and his next to last year in the league
Regehr - Wasn't even in the league any longer
King - 47 and his next to last year in the league

Williams is the only guy who would have mattered and the Kings had the cap space for him but by all accounts didn't even make him an offer. I find it odd that you both lament the fact that the Kings didn't get more for those guys, but completely ignore that they had all been broken down by that point and were not worth anything to any single team in the NHL only one year later.

The issue wasn't any contract(s), it was poor management by Lombardi. He tried to replace Voynov with Sekara (giving up a 1st in the process) and then tried to replace King and others with Lucic (giving up Jones and a 1st in the process). Neither of them were long term solutions or replacements for the guys they lost. If Lombardi KNEW WITHOUT A DOUBT that the core couldn't get it done without guys like the ones listed, then why the hell didn't he go and get more guys like that if they're so easy to identify?

It is still so wild that you have this hard on for Kopitar though after nearly two decades of him being the one consistently excellent player for them over that time.

 

[bland]

You would have had to trade him in the 2014-2015 season. He had a NMC the next season. When the guys you listed played the following amount of games:

Richards - 39 in Washington
Mitchell - 46 in FLA (two years after leaving and his last year in the league)
Scuderi - 21 in LA and his last year in the league
Stoll - 80 on two different teams and his last year in the league
Greene - 3 in LA and his next to last year in the league
Regehr - Wasn't even in the league any longer
King - 47 and his next to last year in the league

Williams is the only guy who would have mattered and the Kings had the cap space for him but by all accounts didn't even make him an offer. I find it odd that you both lament the fact that the Kings didn't get more for those guys, but completely ignore that they had all been broken down by that point and were not worth anything to any single team in the NHL only one year later.

The issue wasn't any contract(s), it was poor management by Lombardi. He tried to replace Voynov with Sekara (giving up a 1st in the process) and then tried to replace King and others with Lucic (giving up Jones and a 1st in the process). Neither of them were long term solutions or replacements for the guys they lost. If Lombardi KNEW WITHOUT A DOUBT that the core couldn't get it done without guys like the ones listed, then why the hell didn't he go and get more guys like that if they're so easy to identify?

It is still so wild that you have this hard on for Kopitar though after nearly two decades of him being the one consistently excellent player for them over that time.

I was including all of the projected moves, not stating that they all happened right before the contract. The point being that the Kings were looking at a dire immediate and long-term future and that signing a player to that kind of contract as opposing to jump-starting the inevitable rebuild was favoring respect and sentimentality over reality and business.

Had Doughty's deal come up first, he would have been the focus. Kopitar's deal came up exactly as the future became incredibly easy to project.

 

[LAKings88]

I know it won't happen but I'm wondering if the right move is to trade Doughty and resign Roy.

Clarke
Roy
Spence

As the future.

Kings would probably have to retain on DD anyway.

Just a random thought.

 

[Herby]

I think we are nearing the point where we see something like this from Pravda/Hanoi Jon

"Kings fans, this management team is committed to putting the best and most qualified man behind the bench to lead this team. Todd McLellan was a wonderful hire by Blakey, and he did many great things with this team, all of the successes we have seen the past three seasons wouldn't have been possible without his dedicated leadership behind the bench. However, all coaches, even the great ones, have a shelf life, and unfortunately Todd has reached his. But have no fear Kings fans, I have been told that the team is in the final stages of an exhaustive and intensive search for the most qualified man to take over this loaded Stanley Cup caliber roster. Blakey, Lucky, Nelly and Muzz have scoured all across the world looking for the right fit and have narrowed it down to this stacked group of four finalists who fit all the criteria they are looking for in their next bench boss.

Ian Laperriere - Lehigh Valley (AHL)
Phillipe Boucher - Drummondville (QMJHL)
Craig Johnson - Anaheim (NHL)
Dan Bylsma - Coachella Valley (AHL)
"

 

[DyslexicTom]

You ignore that the Kings built around him, Brown, Doughty, and Quick for their cup wins. He wasn't the problem.

How the Kings developed and constructed the team around him and the rest of the core was the problem.

But then how could you say "I told you so" if you admitted that?

Care for the team, indeed. So much so that you've been itching this entire time to take a dump on a singular player. A player that the cup-winning management and coach thought was important enough to keep. Surely you know better than them though.

I don't know, man. I think Kopitar might be one of the best players to ever put on the Kings uniform, but I don't believe he is a great leader. There are certainly lots you can have other players learn from him, but he tops out as an A to me.

Questions about this aspect of him are not new, even going back to the pre-Cup days. Framing it as a vendetta of sorts is certainly one way of looking at it. I think it's more consistency than anything else.

I think his extension was a mistake. His second, more recent extension even more so.

That he is still being utilized as a #1C is also baffling, and compounds the Kings' issues.

Doughty is in a similar boat, although I personally have been more okay with retaining his services since defensemen can generally last longer in the league. Deploying him as a #1D is what I largely disagree with.

The deference to these two is what drives a lot of the decisions that leads us to where the Kings are now.

I think 2018, when the Kings were unceremoniously swept by Vegas, should have been the final straw and a full rebuild commenced. Instead we got Willie Desjardins and the choker coach Todd.

 

[bland]

What in the world are they waiting for with Fagemo?

 

[bmr]

What in the world are they waiting for with Fagemo?

No effing clue. Homeboy has another pair tonight and is way better than any of the other secondary right shot options on the team. Who knows!

Maybe he needs a couple hat tricks first.

 

[bland]

You ignore that the Kings built around him, Brown, Doughty, and Quick for their cup wins. He wasn't the problem.

How the Kings developed and constructed the team around him and the rest of the core was the problem.

But then how could you say "I told you so" if you admitted that?

Care for the team, indeed. So much so that you've been itching this entire time to take a dump on a singular player. A player that the cup-winning management and coach thought was important enough to keep. Surely you know better than them though.

Taking a dump, huh?

You have never been able to separate your fondness for Kopitar from reality. Its pathetic that this still provokes such childish responses from you, KP.

 

[King'sPawn]

I don't know, man. I think Kopitar might be one of the best players to ever put on the Kings uniform, but I don't believe he is a great leader. There are certainly lots you can have other players learn from him, but he tops out as an A to me.

Questions about this aspect of him are not new, even going back to the pre-Cup days. Framing it as a vendetta of sorts is certainly one way of looking at it. I think it's more consistency than anything else.

I think his extension was a mistake. His second, more recent extension even more so.

That he is still being utilized as a #1C is also baffling, and compounds the Kings' issues.

Doughty is in a similar boat, although I personally have been more okay with retaining his services since defensemen can generally last longer in the league. Deploying him as a #1D is what I largely disagree with.

The deference to these two is what drives a lot of the decisions that leads us to where the Kings are now.

I think 2018, when the Kings were unceremoniously swept by Vegas, should have been the final straw and a full rebuild commenced. Instead we got Willie Desjardins and the choker coach Todd.

Kopitar surely has his shortcomings. Not being a rally type of leader is certainly a limitation. Lombardi identified that and brought in nut-swingers like Richards and Mitchell.

The point is that no player is perfect. But you complement franchise players with others to fill those voids. Brown could set the tone with hits, but he wasn't a rah-rah kind of guy either.

What nut-swingers has Blake brought in, aside from maybe Danault? You have players who get hot-headed and chippy, like Kempe and Fiala. But they don't seem to provide supplementary leadership - which is my point.

Blake has created an environment where nobody is taking any additional ownership of the team. The development staff believes a 7-year development plan, like what happened with Kempe, is the best course. He finally gets a highly skilled defenseman who agitates and has episodes of pissiness in Brandt Clarke - and he gets jerked around for the first half of last season (due to burning a year off his contract) and looks like he's getting jerked around the second half of this season so he can't hit bonuses.

Again, focus on Kopitar's shortcomings if you want. I never claimed he was perfect. But you're focusing on the charred ceiling while the house is on fire.

 

[King'sPawn]

Taking a dump, huh?

You have never been able to separate your fondness for Kopitar from reality. Its pathetic that this still provokes such childish responses from you, KP.

It's almost as pathetic as claiming that a player taking a $3 million cap hit is the cause for another player being withheld over a $825k bonus. But here we are.

 

[Kurrilino]

I'm not even trying toa fan girl over him.... Those are just statements of fact.

We are SUPER lucky to have had Kopitar in this organization for the last 18 years and he's still a damn good player - So it's weird that you and a few other posters choose him of all people to throw shade at.

Asking for $10 mill but playing like $6mill is crippling any team.
Especially leading the team to the bottom of the league for 7 years right after the contract sign doesn't look good.
Now we mix in that he is used as a pylon by real playoff opponents and we have a disaster.

 

[Maynard]

I think we are nearing the point where we see something like this from Pravda/Hanoi Jon

"Kings fans, this management team is committed to putting the best and most qualified man behind the bench to lead this team. Todd McLellan was a wonderful hire by Blakey, and he did many great things with this team, all of the successes we have seen the past three seasons wouldn't have been possible without his dedicated leadership behind the bench. However, all coaches, even the great ones, have a shelf life, and unfortunately Todd has reached his. But have no fear Kings fans, I have been told that the team is in the final stages of an exhaustive and intensive search for the most qualified man to take over this loaded Stanley Cup caliber roster. Blakey, Lucky, Nelly and Muzz have scoured all across the world looking for the right fit and have narrowed it down to this stacked group of four finalists who fit all the criteria they are looking for in their next bench boss.

Ian Laperriere - Lehigh Valley (AHL)
Phillipe Boucher - Drummondville (QMJHL)
Craig Johnson - Anaheim (NHL)
Dan Bylsma - Coachella Valley (AHL)
"

Misspell a bunch of shit, make a few of your sentences too long, and add a subtle air of condescension and this’ll be dead on.

 

[AbsentMojo]

I think we are nearing the point where we see something like this from Pravda/Hanoi Jon

"Kings fans, this management team is committed to putting the best and most qualified man behind the bench to lead this team. Todd McLellan was a wonderful hire by Blakey, and he did many great things with this team, all of the successes we have seen the past three seasons wouldn't have been possible without his dedicated leadership behind the bench. However, all coaches, even the great ones, have a shelf life, and unfortunately Todd has reached his. But have no fear Kings fans, I have been told that the team is in the final stages of an exhaustive and intensive search for the most qualified man to take over this loaded Stanley Cup caliber roster. Blakey, Lucky, Nelly and Muzz have scoured all across the world looking for the right fit and have narrowed it down to this stacked group of four finalists who fit all the criteria they are looking for in their next bench boss.

Ian Laperriere - Lehigh Valley (AHL)
Phillipe Boucher - Drummondville (QMJHL)
Craig Johnson - Anaheim (NHL)
Dan Bylsma - Coachella Valley (AHL)
"

funny and prob close to reality.. but Id take Lappy.. l love that guy

 

[kingsfan28]

No, you have let an emotional attachment to a player blind you over the course of his career.

I don't share the same affection, and I haven't let sentiment prevent me from seeing the truth: Kopitar is not a player you build around. He is an asset, not a focal point. You do not build a franchise around a player who cannot pull from the front, you are setting yourself up for failure.

Kopitar is an outstanding player, a hall of famer, but not a leader. Its no surprise that a team with him as a leader has had such a difficult time overachieving or playing with the kind of emotion needed to rise above challenges. The only success he has seen in his career was when Lombardi correctly realized the weaknesses of his young core and made the right acquisitions to rise above.

He should have been traded in 2015. With the assets Lombardi had to deal to cover for the core's weaknesses - including the ones spent to try for the third - the team was left with almost no cost-controlled assets. Losing Richards, Williams, Mitchell, Scuderi, Stoll, Greene, Regehr and King leave for one lousy 4th round pick combined with the raises and retirement contracts given to the remaining core left the team with no other choice but to rebuild.

But they didn't because they put their faith in players who weren't bad enough to get high picks and not good enough to succeed. It was guaranteed mediocrity. All of this was laid out with plenty of evidence 8 years ago, yet all you seem to care about is the "disrespect" to a player who I have respected plenty.

I don't care for players, I care for the team. It was bad business.

You're completely insane if you think trading Kopitar [ in his prime] 1 year removed from their 2nd cup in 3 years would've been a good idea. EXTENDING Gaborik, not buying out Richards and the Sekera trade were the issues.

 

[Moses Doughty]

funny and prob close to reality.. but Id take Lappy.. l love that guy

At the least the team wouldn't play so friggin soft

 

[DyslexicTom]

You're completely insane if you think trading Kopitar [ in his prime] 1 year removed from their 2nd cup in 3 years would've been a good idea. EXTENDING Gaborik, not buying out Richards and the Sekera trade were the issues.

Yeah, it would have been a very tough call, but the kind of moves that a cutthroat GM who wanted to keep winning would execute. Lombardi famously expressed that in his search to figure out how to build a perennial contender that sentimentality was the biggest hurdle. One even he, one who knew it was coming, had a hard time leaping over.

A team coming off 2 Cups and then completely whiffing it in 2015 and finishing outside of the playoffs should have been a huge wake up call.

If it wasn't trading Kopitar, then it should have been trying to trade for or develop a true #1 center that could drag the team kicking and screaming into the playoffs while utilizing Kopitar as an elite #2 shutdown center. That would have been killer depth.

Also remember that Kopitar is and has been historically very difficult to find linemates for. How many players have they auditioned on his wing? But oh they tried and tried. It was a Sisyphean task and they burned a lot of years and assets doing so.

And again, lest I be accused of anything: Kopitar is and was a damn good player that is HoF-bound. He better be first ballot.

 

[KingPuckChoo]

the amount of assets Blake spent to rid of a bad contract he signed, to then spend more assets to get a another bad contract in return (that he yet again signed himself), to only inevitably trade said bad contract and thus spend even more assets is criminal

I work at a bank, if i covered my ass with bad credit and then create more debt to cover up the initial debt i created, by using said credit to pay the bad debt via more credit, some would call this a form of layering. I would be investigated for potential fraud or money laundering

Blake is a very bad employee

 

[kingsfan28]

What in the world are they waiting for with Fagemo?

To reach TJ Tynan level before being recalled.

 

[Maynard]

They’re still getting points against tough teams. Nobody will be fired yet. They banked points and set a record for road wins so the koala and Foghorn Leghorn will be safe a while longer.