Toggle sidebar

LA KINGS 2023/4 Regular season discussion

  • Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
Schmooley said:
You wanted them to to build around Doughty instead of a new core? We sat through that Willie D. season for nothing.
Click to expand...
There are surely people who still see Kopitar and Doughty as All Star Players and want to build the team around them.
If necessary, trade away youth or competent players to surround them with grit.
 
johnjm22 said:
The Kings absolutely needed another center if they're trying to compete THIS YEAR. It makes the rest of the lineup fall into place. But whether or not PLD is that guy was always debatable.

As of now, Blake's two big trades; Faber for Fiala, and Vilardi/Iafallo for PLD, don't look great. We also lost a 2nd and a 1st in those deals.

I'm still going to give it some time. Vilardi could get injured again. PLD could be good in the playoffs, but I really don't like Dubois so far. He makes watching the Kings less enjoyable.
Click to expand...
Fiala - Kupari - Vilardi looked fantastic every time they got a chance.
There was absolutely no need to trade for a center.
There was speed, grit and incredible talent
 
  • Like
Reactions: Schmooley
AbsentMojo said:
I guess Koala didnt have confidence in his line changes.. that's actually pretty sad. And bringing up Clarke I thought was a good move.. but to go back to the old status quo.. seems nutless.
Click to expand...

Everyone is absolutely jumping the gun, without knowing what's going on behind closed doors, it's insane, do I want to see more of Clarke, 100%, am I pissed that he's not in the lineup tonight, no....disappointed maybe, but maybe het got banged up, maybe they want to show him a few things combined with video from his own game, watch this game...etc. it's all a process, now if this is prolonged, THEN let the hounds of hell out...but without knowing the why, it's kind of hard for me anyways, to get pissed.....
 
GoldenBearHockey said:
Everyone is absolutely jumping the gun, without knowing what's going on behind closed doors, it's insane, do I want to see more of Clarke, 100%, am I pissed that he's not in the lineup tonight, no....disappointed maybe, but maybe het got banged up, maybe they want to show him a few things combined with video from his own game, watch this game...etc. it's all a process, now if this is prolonged, THEN let the hounds of hell out...but without knowing the why, it's kind of hard for me anyways, to get pissed.....
Click to expand...
Im OK with maybe a platoon of Clarke/Spence if thats what it is. Was more reacting to the top 6 changes
 
I honestly thought Spence had a strong game right before he was scratched, he looked good in OT against Detroit. You could honestly go with either Spence or Clarke on the bottom pair. Doughty's play has been a little bit concerning as of late, he's made some bad turnovers.
 
I mean, at least Clarke is in the NHL around the team. It is tough because he obviously belongs there and Spence also doesn't deserve to be demoted while both Roy and Englund have played very well respectively as well.

It is good that the coaching staff fixed the Kopitar and Danault lines and are focusing specifically on fixing PLD without messing with them. He needs his ass kicked to be honest and to find that next gear. I want to see him sucking air for once because he was out there checking and forcing plays to the net and passing to wingers on the tape of their sticks. He needs to drive a line.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Shellz
johnjm22 said:
The Kings absolutely needed another center if they're trying to compete THIS YEAR. It makes the rest of the lineup fall into place. But whether or not PLD is that guy was always debatable.

As of now, Blake's two big trades; Faber for Fiala, and Vilardi/Iafallo for PLD, don't look great. We also lost a 2nd and a 1st in those deals.

I'm still going to give it some time. Vilardi could get injured again. PLD could be good in the playoffs, but I really don't like Dubois so far. He makes watching the Kings less enjoyable.
Click to expand...
His futures trades have enough time passed to grade and they are falling short for the most part as well, outside of the Moore trade which is obviously a steal.

Muzzin trade is garbage. Martinez trade was garbage. Toffoli trade was garbage. Pearson was stupid when it happened but I'm not going to tear him up for that one since Pearson has been a roller coaster.

The plan was correct: the second part of the plan is the harder part. Anyone can trade real players for picks and prospects but you then have to hit on the picks and prospects.

Before anyone says to look at their record etc..., the whole point of giving away legit NHL players was to bottom out and build a long-term contender. That's what this board wanted and thought was happening when Blake was being feted on here. Blake accelerated things and now this is where we are at.

It's one thing to add a Mike Richards type to a team that you think is ready to contend but it is a whole other thing to add a PLD type: especially when the team is known for being soft and has blown playoff leads two seasons in a row.

The PLD trade should determine if Blake has a job moving forward, IMO. Another first round exit and a whole season and playoffs of this type of play from PLD should seal Blake's fate. Todd would most likely go first though with Blake on the hot seat next, that is if anyone can be on the hot seat since being a member of 99-00 Kings is a prerequisite for a job and that means there are only so many candidates.
 
  • Like
Reactions: VILARGOD, tigermask48, Raccoon Jesus and 2 others
Because of the way they have played the last 3 weeks I’m not gonna waste my time and watch the game. I’ll check out the box scores and make a nice dinner instead. Hell I might even hop on my wife during that timeslot. Enjoy the show boys.
 
Last edited:
  • Haha
Reactions: Raccoon Jesus and AbsentMojo
BigKing said:
His futures trades have enough time passed to grade and they are falling short for the most part as well, outside of the Moore trade which is obviously a steal.

Muzzin trade is garbage. Martinez trade was garbage. Toffoli trade was garbage. Pearson was stupid when it happened but I'm not going to tear him up for that one since Pearson has been a roller coaster.

The plan was correct: the second part of the plan is the harder part. Anyone can trade real players for picks and prospects but you then have to hit on the picks and prospects.

Before anyone says to look at their record etc..., the whole point of giving away legit NHL players was to bottom out and build a long-term contender. That's what this board wanted and thought was happening when Blake was being feted on here. Blake accelerated things and now this is where we are at.

It's one thing to add a Mike Richards type to a team that you think is ready to contend but it is a whole other thing to add a PLD type: especially when the team is known for being soft and has blown playoff leads two seasons in a row.

The PLD trade should determine if Blake has a job moving forward, IMO. Another first round exit and a whole season and playoffs of this type of play from PLD should seal Blake's fate. Todd would most likely go first though with Blake on the hot seat next, that is if anyone can be on the hot seat since being a member of 99-00 Kings is a prerequisite for a job and that means there are only so many candidates.
Click to expand...
Muzzin, Martinez, Toffoli were all proper value. Fiala was proper value as well, that's why I'm not too critical of it even though I don't love KF.

I agree with one thing though; PLD should probably determine Blake's future as GM.

BTW, I already know what the arguments are going be about why Muzz/Mart/Toff weren't good value, and all of them will leave out context of value at the time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: funky and Johnny Utah
johnjm22 said:
Muzzin, Martinez, Toffoli were all proper value. Fiala was proper value as well, that's why I'm not too critical of it even though I don't love KF.

I agree with one thing though; PLD should probably determine Blake's future as GM.

BTW, I already know what the arguments are going be about why Muzz/Mart/Toff weren't good value, and all of them will leave out context of value at the time.
Click to expand...
Its not the value, its the model that is the problem. Fiala is a good player. Dubois is a better player than what we have seen. But they were both the "right" players at the wrong time and for horrible sacrifices.

The choice to go for it again with Kopitar and Doughty was always the wrong move. It has absolutely no chance of succeeding. Undermining a rebuild to augment a core that cannot win was a problem from Arvidsson and Danault thru the inevitable dumb trade at this deadline. You sacrificed what looked like a very promising short-term AND long-term future for a mediocre now. Kids with ELCs and cost-controlled contracts capable of first pairing defense and first line wing were traded for veteran 2nd and 3rd line forwards. It was just plain, old bad business.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BaileyFan, Johnny Utah, SmytheKing and 1 other person
bland said:
The choice to go for it again with Kopitar and Doughty was always the wrong move. It has absolutely no chance of succeeding. Undermining a rebuild to augment a core that cannot win was a problem from Arvidsson and Danault thru the inevitable dumb trade at this deadline. You sacrificed what looked like a very promising short-term AND long-term future for a mediocre now. Kids with ELCs and cost-controlled contracts capable of first pairing defense and first line wing were traded for veteran 2nd and 3rd line forwards. It was just plain, old bad business.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't necessarily disagree, but you have to be realistic. Kings took the route most teams would, and it's probably not even Blake's decision to make.

It has a low likelihood of succeeding (winning the SC), but it's not zero. The chances of a successful rebuild are also very low BTW.

In the Summer of 2021 if Blake's mandate was "win now" he's done about as reasonably a good of job as you could expect.

If it were up to me, I would have continued the rebuild. I guess the difference between me and those who are more critical of Blake is that given where we are now, I support going all in. Enjoy the ride now, then when it blows up you can rebuild proper.
 
  • Like
Reactions: funky
Should have traded Doughty. Kopitar didn’t want to leave, fine, build around him and let him fade out like Getzlaf did in Anaheim.

Kings needed to do what Anaheim and the Hawks did and do a full blow up.

One team landed Bedard and the other has 4-5 future stars.

The Kings have 2 fading stars, one overpaid potential bust, and a bunch of middle range picks who are struggling.

No other legit prospects on D besides Clarke, no rising star forward besides Byfield and nothing in goal besides Portillo (who they traded for) and possibly Ingham.

The only two prospects of any value are Byfield and Clarke.

The rest are struggling, injured, buried in Ontario or lost on waivers.
 
johnjm22 said:
Muzzin, Martinez, Toffoli were all proper value. Fiala was proper value as well, that's why I'm not too critical of it even though I don't love KF.

I agree with one thing though; PLD should probably determine Blake's future as GM.

BTW, I already know what the arguments are going be about why Muzz/Mart/Toff weren't good value, and all of them will leave out context of value at the time.
Click to expand...
The issue isn't the value at the time: it is the result. He whiffed on those deals. I would still argue value when you are trading within your division, however, as he did with Toffoli and Martinez. What did he get for Toffoli? A 165 pound prospect and a 2nd?

I understand the enjoyment argument of finally seeing a Kings team in the playoffs and one that can whip the puck around offensively but it all seems like empty calories. As for enjoyment, thank goodness I've only gone to seven home games so far and have sold the rest since they never win at home.

Johnny Utah said:
Should have traded Doughty. Kopitar didn’t want to leave, fine, build around him and let him fade out like Getzlaf did in Anaheim.

Kings needed to do what Anaheim and the Hawks did and do a full blow up.

One team landed Bedard and the other has 4-5 future stars.

The Kings have 2 fading stars, one overpaid potential bust, and a bunch of middle range picks who are struggling.

No other legit prospects on D besides Clarke, no rising star forward besides Byfield and nothing in goal besides Portillo (who they traded for) and possibly Ingham.

The only two prospects of any value are Byfield and Clarke.

The rest are struggling, injured, buried in Ontario or lost on waivers.
Click to expand...
Spence is a legit NHL defenseman. I wouldn't call Byfield a prospect: he's an NHL regular.

But yes, the prospect pool that The Athletic and this board were j/o'ing over has not panned out as hoped so far. Well, Faber looks pretty damn good.
 
Johnny Utah said:
Should have traded Doughty. Kopitar didn’t want to leave, fine, build around him and let him fade out like Getzlaf did in Anaheim.

Kings needed to do what Anaheim and the Hawks did and do a full blow up.

One team landed Bedard and the other has 4-5 future stars.

The Kings have 2 fading stars, one overpaid potential bust, and a bunch of middle range picks who are struggling.

No other legit prospects on D besides Clarke, no rising star forward besides Byfield and nothing in goal besides Portillo (who they traded for) and possibly Ingham.

The only two prospects of any value are Byfield and Clarke.

The rest are struggling, injured, buried in Ontario or lost on waivers.
Click to expand...
Lol

Asset management is a problem and the PLD trade was likely a big mistake - Things are frustrating now with the 5 game losing streak and some of the management/coaching decisions but let's not act like we know this team is completely screwed for the future. The Kings are still a VERY good team and should be good for at least 2-3 more years (being conservative there). If they need to rebuild/re-tool in a few years so be it. They also do have the pieces to potentially be good for a longggg time.

Byfield, Clarke, Laferriere, Kaliyev (even though he's been a little frustrating/underwhelming he still has potential and is still relatively young), Spence, Anderson, and Portillo could be an amazing core in the future for all we know.

Kings also have guys like Moore, Kempe, Fiala, and PLD in their primes. Obviously PLD has been disappointing and the contract may be a problem but it's also possible he turns it around and ends up being a solid or even great middle/top 6 forward for the Kings throughout the term of his contract.

Contrary to your post there's also some solid prospects that could end up being good NHLers for all we know. Dvorak, Salin, Ziemmer, Helenius, Slukynsky. Sure those guys likely won't end up being game breakers and maybe don't have a ton of trade value but if some of those guys (or other guys not mentioned) end up as solid NHLers and young players like Byfield and Clarke end up living up to their potential - The future could actually be pretty awesome.

You mention Anaheim.... They've been rebuilding for the last 5 years and are still near dead last in the standings. Yes they have some shiny pieces that could be (likely will be) good/great players in the future but it doesn't always work out according to plan and it seems like this rebuild of theirs is taking longer than they expected. Drysdale was supposed to be the future of their blue line... traded. Zegras looks like he might not be the 1st line game breaker he seemed to be. I agree they have a bright future and will likely be pretty good soon but who knows - That's all based on potential.

It just seems a bit ridiculous to idolize shitty rebuilding teams based on potential while failing to acknowledge the potential the Kings have within their organization while the current team is already legitimately VERY good.
 
  • Like
Reactions: funky
BigKing said:
The issue isn't the value at the time: it is the result. He whiffed on those deals. I would still argue value when you are trading within your division, however, as he did with Toffoli and Martinez. What did he get for Toffoli? A 165 pound prospect and a 2nd?

I understand the enjoyment argument of finally seeing a Kings team in the playoffs and one that can whip the puck around offensively but it all seems like empty calories. As for enjoyment, thank goodness I've only gone to seven home games so far and have sold the rest since they never win at home.


Spence is a legit NHL defenseman. I wouldn't call Byfield a prospect: he's an NHL regular.

But yes, the prospect pool that The Athletic and this board were j/o'ing over has not panned out as hoped so far. Well, Faber looks pretty damn good.
Click to expand...
Faber would absolutely not be getting the same opportunity in LA as he has in Minny. For that same reason, I have to believe some of the other prospects who haven’t panned out for the Kings may have worked out better elsewhere. The Kings have no interest in developing players according to their skill set. It’s all about their rigid system so that anyone can fill in for anyone when needed. In real life, that ain’t how things work and you would think former NHL players would know that.
 
Jungle Boy said:
I’m really hoping to Blake and Todd being moved but there are some issues that some people are too harsh on him, Faber being one of them. The guy just did not want to play here, simple as that. Another issue is the PLD trade, Moving Iafallo opened space for Moore, Kupari is not what we need and Villardi’s health history will always be a concern.
Click to expand...
I'm glad others set you straight on the Faber error. so let's address the other one: the PLD trade and IA.

You are giving props to Blake for the PLD trade because it enabled him to dump AI and thus have room for Moore. OMG where to start.
First off, who signed AI to that $4M/year contract? Hint, it rhymes with Mob Flake.
Second, You don't make a bad bigger trade when you simply could have traded AI by himself -- if you needed to add on, then use that Durzi 2nd that went in to the PLD trade (which is WAY more than req'd to trade away AI).
Third, Blake has had years to be working & planning the cap situation -- how the heck does a guy mess up the cap so much to not have any room for guys when the team is flush with tons of young, cheap talent/prospects. If there is one thing i've been impressed with by Blake is this seemingly impossible f'ed up situation cap wise with a team of loaded prospects/picks from 2021+. Bravo Blake.
Forth, you know who drafted Kupari & Vilardi right? You don't get props for dumping young guys (that you drafted) years later for little return. That's a Blake problem from either the time drafted, the development side or along the way while they still had proper value.
Fifth, it's arguable that GV is > PLD....and neither of them is a center.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kudelski37, King'sPawn and Kurrilino
Kurrilino said:
Fiala - Kupari - Vilardi looked fantastic every time they got a chance.
There was absolutely no need to trade for a center.
There was speed, grit and incredible talent
Click to expand...

Iafallo-Byfield-Vilardi was insane too. No reason they couldn't have rolled Byfield OR Vilardi at 'offensive deployment 3C' instead. Or Kupari.

Hell, there are even better/more interchangeable parts if youkeep those guys, as a base

Iafallo-Byfield-Vilardi
Moore-Danault-Arvidsson
Fiala-Kopitar-Laferriere

Hell, that's even forgetting friggin KEMPE and Kaliyev. It's so easy and possible to move around especially the wings, those guys are super adaptable...

They blew their was on the worse player on PLD AND caused more roster inflexibility.
 
  • Like
Reactions: David Lunch, VILARGOD, Kudelski37 and 4 others
johnjm22 said:
I wouldn't necessarily disagree, but you have to be realistic. Kings took the route most teams would, and it's probably not even Blake's decision to make.

It has a low likelihood of succeeding (winning the SC), but it's not zero. The chances of a successful rebuild are also very low BTW.

In the Summer of 2021 if Blake's mandate was "win now" he's done about as reasonably a good of job as you could expect.

If it were up to me, I would have continued the rebuild. I guess the difference between me and those who are more critical of Blake is that given where we are now, I support going all in. Enjoy the ride now, then when it blows up you can rebuild proper.
Click to expand...
This was actually the only option.
The team core has already proven over and over again that they don't have what it takes to play with the big boys.
Why the hell someone would rebuild a team around them is far beyond me.
Also the additions made to build around those guys are more than questionable
Byfield unleashed for 3 years as #1 Center like Zegras would look way different today.
Same if you would Kaliev just do what he can do, scoring goals

But no, for some mysterious reason, we keep the peeps who can't compete and put the youngsters into roles they are not made for and punish them when they fail.

How people see a contender here is also far beyond me
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Top Bottom