LA KINGS 2023/4 Regular season discussion

[chris kontos]

So much of this stuff that i write, and watch i feel "where's the beating a dead horse icon?"
Gotta belive if upper mgmt starts seeing whats obvious to so many sweeping changes will be made.
I dont think this team can be fixed with a simple coaching change.

 

[All The Kings Men]

This happened while he was in juniors. Yannetti discussed it during (I think) one of Hoven's interviews.

Not sure if it was Sutter, but management soured on Cernak when he admitted he was afraid.

Um actually...

 

[King'sPawn]

Um actually...

Thank you for the correction. I got the source mixed up (as Hoven did a few interviews with him too). My apologies.

 

[bland]

The fact that that from the moment they drafted Byfield they said he was going be in the OHL when basically every other top pick was in the NHL and the comments from Murray and others make me think they just don’t think that way.




The decision to not trade Drew Doughty was a very poor one that was rooted more in sentimentality than what was best for the hockey team.

Nothing against Drew, but his age made him both young enough that he still had value to a contender but not young enough where the team could rebuild and he’d still be effective when it was over.

As a result they did this faux rebuild/reload that has never been successfully attempted in the post lockout/cap NHL.

Byfield was like a newborn colt that clearly needed time. Faber finished multiple years of college. They aren't similar situations.

 

[kingsfan28]

That might be even f***ing dumber

like you drafted the guy and presumably interviewed him

Oh I remember the story now too, they had mentioned there may have been a cultural/language barrier contributing to misunderstanding

So sure trade him for Bishop, lol this org

It's totally assinine! You listen to Yanetti tell the story, it pretty plain to see how the old boys way of thinking was getting in the way they evaluated him, especially with Sutter. Par for the course with him. Imagine your playing in your first pro league games and admit you were scared and intimidated as you tried to adjust. Then your future coach barks at you and says you're not allowed to be that, you're a f-ing hockey player! He wasn't the only guy Sutter marked off his list.

 

[kingsfan28]

The fact that that from the moment they drafted Byfield they said he was going be in the OHL when basically every other top pick was in the NHL and the comments from Murray and others make me think they just don’t think that way.




The decision to not trade Drew Doughty was a very poor one that was rooted more in sentimentality than what was best for the hockey team.

Nothing against Drew, but his age made him both young enough that he still had value to a contender but not young enough where the team could rebuild and he’d still be effective when it was over.

As a result they did this faux rebuild/reload that has never been successfully attempted in the post lockout/cap NHL.

I know your data shows otherwise, but nobody thought QB was NHL ready. The dude looked like a hs basketball player on skates.Tall, gangly, and in need of about 30 lbs. He needed time to grow and play productive min, not 7 min a game on the 4th line. It was the ankle injury that really messed him up.

 

[Omni Owl]

I think back to the (early) Lombardi days and how attentive he was at getting the "right" guy for the room + team. He payed a lot of attention to who were good role models and how each players would complement one other. Obviously he wasn't perfect, but the fact that he studied winning franchises from other sports meant he had a philosophy and a vision. Now that I think on it, no f***ing way someone like DL would have traded for a Dubios type. I picture him going after an O'Reilly (cup winner), who I now wish we could've signed and kept Vilardi.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Isn't it baffling that the Kings had to sign Danault and trade for PLD and when drafted about 6 centers in the past five years in either the first or second round?

Vilardi, Kupari, Turcotte, Byfield, Helenius, and Hughes are ALL centers and the Kings haven't developed one to be an NHL center.

Only one in on he current roster and he is playing wing.

 

[Telos]

Isn't it baffling that the Kings had to sign Danault and trade for PLD and when drafted about 5 centers in the past five years in either the first round or second?

Vilardi, Kupari, Turcotte, Byfield, and Hughes are ALL centers and the Kings haven't developed one to be an NHL center.

Only one in on he current roster and he is playing wing.

Agreed. It is not just baffling, but the key pivotal failure of the entire current franchise and organization. I think the Danault trade still would have happened and is still a good one as that just guarantees a dominant shutdown third line and sets up a strong bottom 6, but if any of those players had developed into a tangible 2nd line center all current heartburns on the roster would have disappeared quite easily as they would have had a lot of assets and money to fix goaltending and our middle 6 wings would be pretty crazy with Vilardi, Iafallo, etc. still around.

However, the roster looking good on paper also isn't everything because this roster should perform on paper. As much as PLD has looked lost, he has always produced an average of like 20 goals and 50-60 points throughout his career for the majority. The buck stops with Blake, but also I bet there are other coaching staffs and organizations that could get more out of this lineup than the current one in place.

Also, Blake has the team built for skill and speed as he admitted to wanting the team to mirror the Avalanche. In the modern NHL, there is sort of a rock, paper, scissors game going on now with how teams are built and of course, it is a dice roll in the playoffs, but they have been in the ballpark of teams like the Avs and are having similar successes and failures. When you run into that team that is going to hit you, throw you off your games, dig deep and block shots while being active on the pressured forechecks, this team stumbles if it can't execute the tape-to-tape, quick, highly skilled plays that it is pretty much praying for at this point. It just isn't as creative, skillful, and crafty as they think it is. There are definitely some weaknesses in its design which can be overcome if the top players all consistently execute and the defense and goaltending hold up, but it is a careful balance that they are showing that they cannot handle and the coaching staff is having difficulty adapting and implementing what needs to be done.

 

[Johnny Utah]

The Avs have Landeskog, Manson and MacDermid - they are way tougher than the Kings and can play any style.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think back to the (early) Lombardi days and how attentive he was at getting the "right" guy for the room + team. He payed a lot of attention to who were good role models and how each players would complement one other. Obviously he wasn't perfect, but the fact that he studied winning franchises from other sports meant he had a philosophy and a vision. Now that I think on it, no f***ing way someone like DL would have traded for a Dubios type. I picture him going after an O'Reilly (cup winner), who I now wish we could've signed and kept Vilardi.

DL would have looked at Vilardi like "wait, your complaint is he's mad and scowling and wants to win?" and signed him to a max deal.

 

[KingPuckChoo]

Our only hope: signing Dubois to a $68 million contract that includes a full no-trade clause for four seasons starting in 2024-25

i'm thinking that Blake put in that type of buffer to allow him to reassess...

what's scary though, is the potential that Blake thinks PLD has had a solid season

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Our only hope: signing Dubois to a $68 million contract that includes a full no-trade clause for four seasons starting in 2024-25

i'm thinking that Blake put in that type of buffer to allow him to reassess...

what's scary though, is the potential that Blake thinks PLD has had a solid season

You'd better hope they're saying the right things behind closed doors because they're publicly fellating him while putting Kaliyev on death row for a turnover

 

[Herby]

I disagree. There's value in keeping players like Kopitar and Doughty as a mentorship role. The problem is they let the players choose the direction of the team and keeps golden cow-ing them.

Byfield, Clarke, etc should be owning the team now. Much like Kopitar, Brown and (at the time) Johnson when those stupid commercials starring them was shot.

I think it should have been done for two reasons.

1. The chance to gain assets for the next generation. Who knows what you get from Toronto, but it would have been alot for Doughty, maybe you end up with a guy like Nylander, or a couple of 1st round picks. That is certainly better than having Doughty age a half decade and have 0 playoff series wins to show for it and have a potential franchise defenseman traded because Doughty was blocking a quick ascension.

2. Doughty wanted nothing to do with the mentorship role in a rebuild that you suggested. Look at this quotes to the media "frustrated as hell", "sick of losing" in what was the very early stages of what would have been a traditional rebuild, as I like to call it. And of course right after those comments were made the Kings began going down this reload path. Doughty going to the media was smart for him, it created a fork in the road that was going to result on him playing on a playoff caliber team, either through trade or the Kings going to this reload strategy.

And I don't personally blame DD, I probably would have done the same thing in his shoes, I wouldn't want to have the last years of my prime spent in a 3-5 year rebuild. I blame Blake for not making the tough, but necessary decision to commit to a good rebuild.

Our only hope: signing Dubois to a $68 million contract that includes a full no-trade clause for four seasons starting in 2024-25

i'm thinking that Blake put in that type of buffer to allow him to reassess...

what's scary though, is the potential that Blake thinks PLD has had a solid season

I don't think he can trade PLD at this point, it would result in massive salary retention, at some point you have to figure AEG is going to say "ENOUGH" to paying people to not play for and not coach the Kings.

Not all Blake's fault...but.

Richards
Phaneuf
Greene
Stevens
Cal P/ Provorov

 

[Johnny Utah]

Where is the Ian Laperrière, Brendan Lemieux, Jordan Nolan type player?

Those are the type of players you need in the playoffs.

I love me some Laffy his year, but Lizotte, Lewis (who is almost my age), and Grundstrom ain't cutting it.

 

[Schrute farms]

I think it should have been done for two reasons.

1. The chance to gain assets for the next generation. Who knows what you get from Toronto, but it would have been alot for Doughty, maybe you end up with a guy like Nylander, or a couple of 1st round picks. That is certainly better than having Doughty age a half decade and have 0 playoff series wins to show for it and have a potential franchise defenseman traded because Doughty was blocking a quick ascension.

2. Doughty wanted nothing to do with the mentorship role in a rebuild that you suggested. Look at this quotes to the media "frustrated as hell", "sick of losing" in what was the very early stages of what would have been a traditional rebuild, as I like to call it. And of course right after those comments were made the Kings began going down this reload path. Doughty going to the media was smart for him, it created a fork in the road that was going to result on him playing on a playoff caliber team, either through trade or the Kings going to this reload strategy.

And I don't personally blame DD, I probably would have done the same thing in his shoes, I wouldn't want to have the last years of my prime spent in a 3-5 year rebuild. I blame Blake for not making the tough, but necessary decision to commit to a good rebuild.



I don't think he can trade PLD at this point, it would result in massive salary retention, at some point you have to figure AEG is going to say "ENOUGH" to paying people to not play for and not coach the Kings.

Not all Blake's fault...but.

Richards
Phaneuf
Greene
Stevens
Cal P/ Provorov

Not trading DD was the huge mistake. Especially when DD was pushing for additions to contend. Although, i do wonder how much of that was a pure bluff....and Blake folded like a cheap chair. I think if Blake had put Blake on the trade market, DD might have ran to his office and pleaded to stay in LA (we'll never know obviously).

 

[All The Kings Men]

Just to jog my memory... Doughty made those comments following the 2021 season right?

Had he ever mad similar comments previously? I don't think he would have had an opportunity after the 2019-20 season as it was cut short due to COVID and the 2018-19 exit media was done without knowing the future direction the club was taking.

 

[bland]

Just to jog my memory... Doughty made those comments following the 2021 season right?

Had he ever mad similar comments previously? I don't think he would have had an opportunity after the 2019-20 season as it was cut short due to COVID and the 2018-19 exit media was done without knowing the future direction the club was taking.

It was during the exit interviews in the summer just before the Arvidsson trade and Danault signings.

 

[Herby]

It was during the exit interviews in the summer just before the Arvidsson trade and Danault signings.

It would be interesting to see where the Kings would be had they chosen the different path (that you and I wanted).

Subtractions

Doughty (10m cap hit)
Danault (5m cap hit)
Fiala (7m cap hit)
Arvidsson (4m cap hit)
Gavrikov (6m cap hit)
PLD (8.5m cap hit)

Additions

Faber
2022 1st (likely Top 10 in rebuild)
2023 1st (likely Top 10 in rebuild)
Vilardi
Iafallo
Kupari
Whatever they got for Doughty (multiple young picks or players)
2021 2nd (likely 32-40)
2022 3rd
A lot of cap space


Under 25

Faber
Byfield
Clarke
Vilardi
Kupari
Top 10 pick in 2022
Top 10 pick in 2023

 

[Schmooley]

It would be interesting to see where the Kings would be had they chosen the different path (that you and I wanted).

Subtractions

Doughty (10m cap hit)
Danault (5m cap hit)
Fiala (7m cap hit)
Arvidsson (4m cap hit)
Gavrikov (6m cap hit)
PLD (8.5m cap hit)

Additions

Faber
2022 1st (likely Top 10 in rebuild)
2023 1st (likely Top 10 in rebuild)
Vilardi
Iafallo
Kupari
Whatever they got for Doughty (multiple young picks or players)
2021 2nd (likely 32-40)
2022 3rd
A lot of cap space


Under 25

Faber
Byfield
Clarke
Vilardi
Kupari
Top 10 pick in 2022
Top 10 pick in 2023

Everyone wanted this

 

[bland]

It would be interesting to see where the Kings would be had they chosen the different path (that you and I wanted).

Subtractions

Doughty (10m cap hit)
Danault (5m cap hit)
Fiala (7m cap hit)
Arvidsson (4m cap hit)
Gavrikov (6m cap hit)
PLD (8.5m cap hit)

Additions

Faber
2022 1st (likely Top 10 in rebuild)
2023 1st (likely Top 10 in rebuild)
Vilardi
Iafallo
Kupari
Whatever they got for Doughty (multiple young picks or players)
2021 2nd (likely 32-40)
2022 3rd
A lot of cap space


Under 25

Faber
Byfield
Clarke
Vilardi
Kupari
Top 10 pick in 2022
Top 10 pick in 2023

It also should be noted that a dedication to development over immediate results would have likely seen a better return on the investments made in Turcotte and Bjornfot.

 

[Kudelski37]

I just noticed that after this busy January the Kings don't play until February 10, including the all star break. The return game is at home against Edmonton. Oh joy!?

 

[lumbergh]

Everyone wanted this

Nope

 

[Reaper45]

I just noticed that after this busy January the Kings don't play until February 10, including the all star break. The return game is at home against Edmonton. Oh joy!?

Guaranteed L.

 

[FrozenKing18]

I think back to the (early) Lombardi days and how attentive he was at getting the "right" guy for the room + team. He payed a lot of attention to who were good role models and how each players would complement one other. Obviously he wasn't perfect, but the fact that he studied winning franchises from other sports meant he had a philosophy and a vision. Now that I think on it, no f***ing way someone like DL would have traded for a Dubios type. I picture him going after an O'Reilly (cup winner), who I now wish we could've signed and kept Vilardi.

ROR is definitely a Lombardi type player. I think he would’ve been a great signing had we not acquired PLD.