Proposal: LA Kings 2017 1st to Vegas for drafting Brown

[CrypTic]

I guess the benefit would be not having to protect him.

And getting rid of Bieksa so that some of their younger guys can play. Since they're saving ~1.33M on Bieksa's contract, that might cover most of the cost of the younger player (for two seasons) as well.

 

[Viqsi]

look at their cap situation. if despres didnt go to ltir, they wouldnt have gotten lindholm signed. burnign 4m on a guy that wont be on the roster isnt ideal.

See that comment you replied to in re: "naturally it's preferable to trade him". What do you imagine the best alternative is if he doesn't waive and he can't be traded? Just going ahead and protecting him anyways and thus losing someone vastly better?

* * *​

I guess the benefit would be not having to protect him.

That and saving some actual cash. Those are pretty much the only benefits, but they're substantial ones for Anaheim.

 

[dahrougem2]

If I'm Vegas I wouldn't touch Dustin Brown.

 

[tony d]

Vegas may need to get to the cap floor but yeah got to think it's going to cost more than that for them to want to acquire Dustin Brown.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

the fact that the one game preseason game sold out fast and has for years. Listening to the fans in the back ground of live reports and watching the signs in the stands also there was a number of brown jerseys in the crowd If the games there were not sold out the nhl would not have given vegas a chance at a team They are not going to give a nhl franchise to a city to have it fail You have no idea about any of this and trying to dismiss it fine your allowed to dismiss it but common sense saying to me if theses games failed they would be there. To be honest with you i hope he doesn't get picked up I am fine with whats hes doing this year and would be fine if he stays. There is more to hockey then points I love a physical player brown is always among the league lead in this. He also draws a lot of penalties Again tell me who is going to be outthere cheaper that has what dustin brings and ill leave it alone but you can't back up your bs so i ll leave it at this I agree to disagree

One preseason game a year is not actual evidence of team popularity, player popularity, nor a test for a market to get a franchise. That's simply you reaching and it's purely anecdotal. There's no logical reason to believe that one preseason game is a test for a market to get a franchise. That has never been the case. The willingness to pay the admission fee and having a legitimate arena to play in have always been the first requirements for a franchise and the most important elements. Not every place that has ever gotten a franchise required a sold out annual preseason game to be awarded a franchise. It's actually more like most of them didn't. Your common sense is wrong.

The reality is that you're letting your love for Brown cloud your judgment on what his actual value is. Even if Brown was the best in the league in hits and drawing penalties, it doesn't mean he's worth what he's being paid or worth taking on in a trade or claiming in the expansion draft. He's not. If he was worth that, the Kings shouldn't have any problems protecting him when the time comes. Chances are that won't be the case even if he finishes at what he's pacing at. As for who could do what he does that Vegas may be able to acquire, Matt Martin leads the league in hits right now will likely be available from the Leafs. Chris Kunitz is a veteran who is always up there in hits and has Cup experience will be a free agent. Tommy Wingels will also be a free agent who was up there in penalties drawn per 60. There are numerous different ways to account for the good things that Brown does w/o having to take on that massive contract and it behooves Vegas to do it that way because tying yourself down to a bad contract like that is how teams stay in the basement.

 

[LDF]

If I'm Vegas I wouldn't touch Dustin Brown.

oh i am sure that LV will not draft him, unless the kings pays thru the nose.

so the main question is, what will it be worth for the kings to entice LV to draft him??

 

[KingCanadain1976]

One preseason game a year is not actual evidence of team popularity, player popularity, nor a test for a market to get a franchise. That's simply you reaching and it's purely anecdotal. There's no logical reason to believe that one preseason game is a test for a market to get a franchise. That has never been the case. The willingness to pay the admission fee and having a legitimate arena to play in have always been the first requirements for a franchise and the most important elements. Not every place that has ever gotten a franchise required a sold out annual preseason game to be awarded a franchise. It's actually more like most of them didn't. Your common sense is wrong.

The reality is that you're letting your love for Brown cloud your judgment on what his actual value is. Even if Brown was the best in the league in hits and drawing penalties, it doesn't mean he's worth what he's being paid or worth taking on in a trade or claiming in the expansion draft. He's not. If he was worth that, the Kings shouldn't have any problems protecting him when the time comes. Chances are that won't be the case even if he finishes at what he's pacing at. As for who could do what he does that Vegas may be able to acquire, Matt Martin leads the league in hits right now will likely be available from the Leafs. Chris Kunitz is a veteran who is always up there in hits and has Cup experience will be a free agent. Tommy Wingels will also be a free agent who was up there in penalties drawn per 60. There are numerous different ways to account for the good things that Brown does w/o having to take on that massive contract and it behooves Vegas to do it that way because tying yourself down to a bad contract like that is how teams stay in the basement.

lol its not one game though it's been like 19 years the kings have been going to vegas and selling it out. I compare it to any sorta entertainment if you sell out the building it must be something people want to see. If people want to see it it must be popular. Pretty simple huh. If theses game again weren't sold out to me the league wouldn't be looking to get in there full time. Again seeing these games on tv and computer you watch the crowd and see all the king jerseys in the rink seeing c and the name brown on a fair portion of them same jerseys yeah he is pretty popular there.

ok now you're going to take matt martin to compare to browns hits Awesome choice costs 2.75 million Kunitz as a leader ok i don't see him signing there but let's say he does he ll want a raise to do so i'll go cheap 4 million for him. Next wingels i don't see him available but for this i won't argue it. again ufa wants a raise 4 is cheaper then what he ll get So in order to get what you can get from brown ur spending 10.75 million + and you still havn't got a captain experience. Nice try btw i ment replace with one person but going your way you're spending double for what brown brings and showing why hes not a bad pick so please continue im very amused Your getting hung up by his numbers and not watching him actually play I strongly suggest you watch a few game this year for yourself and see how hes doing and not watch the numbers

 

[Ollie Weeks]

One preseason game a year is not actual evidence of team popularity, player popularity, nor a test for a market to get a franchise. That's simply you reaching and it's purely anecdotal. There's no logical reason to believe that one preseason game is a test for a market to get a franchise. That has never been the case. The willingness to pay the admission fee and having a legitimate arena to play in have always been the first requirements for a franchise and the most important elements. Not every place that has ever gotten a franchise required a sold out annual preseason game to be awarded a franchise. It's actually more like most of them didn't. Your common sense is wrong.

The reality is that you're letting your love for Brown cloud your judgment on what his actual value is. Even if Brown was the best in the league in hits and drawing penalties, it doesn't mean he's worth what he's being paid or worth taking on in a trade or claiming in the expansion draft. He's not. If he was worth that, the Kings shouldn't have any problems protecting him when the time comes. Chances are that won't be the case even if he finishes at what he's pacing at. As for who could do what he does that Vegas may be able to acquire, Matt Martin leads the league in hits right now will likely be available from the Leafs. Chris Kunitz is a veteran who is always up there in hits and has Cup experience will be a free agent. Tommy Wingels will also be a free agent who was up there in penalties drawn per 60. There are numerous different ways to account for the good things that Brown does w/o having to take on that massive contract and it behooves Vegas to do it that way because tying yourself down to a bad contract like that is how teams stay in the basement.

I wouldn't bother. See above.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

I wouldn't bother. See above.

thanks Ollie I think i stated it ok but nice to see a fellow king fan agree

 

[sjsharks92]

It would probably be enough to compel Vegas to take on Brown's albatross contract. But you'd need to offer more to protect the rest of the roster.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

lol its not one game though it's been like 19 years the kings have been going to vegas and selling it out. I compare it to any sorta entertainment if you sell out the building it must be something people want to see. If people want to see it it must be popular. Pretty simple huh. If theses game again weren't sold out to me the league wouldn't be looking to get in there full time. Again seeing these games on tv and computer you watch the crowd and see all the king jerseys in the rink seeing c and the name brown on a fair portion of them same jerseys yeah he is pretty popular there.

ok now you're going to take matt martin to compare to browns hits Awesome choice costs 2.75 million Kunitz as a leader ok i don't see him signing there but let's say he does he ll want a raise to do so i'll go cheap 4 million for him. Next wingels i don't see him available but for this i won't argue it. again ufa wants a raise 4 is cheaper then what he ll get So in order to get what you can get from brown ur spending 10.75 million + and you still havn't got a captain experience. Nice try btw i ment replace with one person but going your way you're spending double for what brown brings and showing why hes not a bad pick so please continue im very amused Your getting hung up by his numbers and not watching him actually play I strongly suggest you watch a few game this year for yourself and see how hes doing and not watch the numbers

Well if it had been 19 years and it wasn't until just now that they decided to give Vegas a team, maybe it didn't have anything at all to do with it because one would reasonably suspect that after oh I don't know year 5 that it would be a done deal if it actually had anything to do with awarding franchises. Like I said...your common sense is reaching...far.

As for the players bit since your response is all over the place...

I wasn't advocating all three. They were merely examples of things they can get if they want to address certain elements. However, even if it was all three, those three players at what they'd actually get is still three contributing players. One is a solid middle sixer, one is a solid bottom six player, and one is a solid 4th liner. Chances are those guys are pulling in a combined 7 or 8 million. The key factor though is the terms involved. None of them are going to be overpaid for the next five years to the point that you'd need to pay an additional asset to get rid of them.

As for captain experience, how did that work out for him when he got stripped of it? Obviously the Kings don't value his captain experience to the same degree because they felt it was time to move on from that. If they don't feel his experience is worth keeping him as the captain, why should another team? It's not as if that honestly matters that much. There is much more to the leadership structure of the team than just the captain and the two alternates.

As for watching him play, please. He's been on a rival team of mine his entire career. I know what he was able to contribute at one point. I know what he still is able to contribute now. He's not someone I'm painting as a fringe NHL'er or a guy that is AHL quality. He's a solid middle six winger probably closer to 3rd line level the past few years that brings a quality physical element and draws penalties pretty well. Doesn't mean that he's worth another five years at just south of six mil when he's already trending downward at 32 while being under contract until he's 37. Players like him who throw the body around frequently tend to wear down quickly. He's already shown some of that wear and tear. He's at least been able to stay healthy while his production dropped dramatically. But what happens over that time frame when that is no longer the case? These are things teams, especially expansion franchises because their margin for error is slimmer, have to think about when looking at acquiring someone with Brown's kind of contract.

If the Kings were willing to retain a decent chunk of Brown's contract in a trade then his value changes. They may not need to add a 1st to move him but nobody is taking that contract for free as it is.

 

[LDF]

lol its not one game though it's been like 19 years the kings have been going to vegas and selling it out. I compare it to any sorta entertainment if you sell out the building it must be something people want to see. If people want to see it it must be popular. Pretty simple huh. If theses game again weren't sold out to me the league wouldn't be looking to get in there full time. Again seeing these games on tv and computer you watch the crowd and see all the king jerseys in the rink seeing c and the name brown on a fair portion of them same jerseys yeah he is pretty popular there.

ok now you're going to take matt martin to compare to browns hits Awesome choice costs 2.75 million Kunitz as a leader ok i don't see him signing there but let's say he does he ll want a raise to do so i'll go cheap 4 million for him. Next wingels i don't see him available but for this i won't argue it. again ufa wants a raise 4 is cheaper then what he ll get So in order to get what you can get from brown ur spending 10.75 million + and you still havn't got a captain experience. Nice try btw i ment replace with one person but going your way you're spending double for what brown brings and showing why hes not a bad pick so please continue im very amused Your getting hung up by his numbers and not watching him actually play I strongly suggest you watch a few game this year for yourself and see how hes doing and not watch the numbers

ok, but the other side to anything that teams do, if they have a chance, is to improve their position in many different ways.

staying on the bottom of the league, via the cap is one, and obtaining prospects to continue to improve their position, esp a new team who has no prospects.

 

[LDF]

Well if it had been 19 years and it wasn't until just now that they decided to give Vegas a team, maybe it didn't have anything at all to do with it because one would reasonably suspect that after oh I don't know year 5 that it would be a done deal if it actually had anything to do with awarding franchises. Like I said...your common sense is reaching...far.

As for the players bit since your response is all over the place...

I wasn't advocating all three. They were merely examples of things they can get if they want to address certain elements. However, even if it was all three, those three players at what they'd actually get is still three contributing players. One is a solid middle sixer, one is a solid bottom six player, and one is a solid 4th liner. Chances are those guys are pulling in a combined 7 or 8 million. The key factor though is the terms involved. None of them are going to be overpaid for the next five years to the point that you'd need to pay an additional asset to get rid of them.

As for captain experience, how did that work out for him when he got stripped of it? Obviously the Kings don't value his captain experience to the same degree because they felt it was time to move on from that. If they don't feel his experience is worth keeping him as the captain, why should another team? It's not as if that honestly matters that much. There is much more to the leadership structure of the team than just the captain and the two alternates.

As for watching him play, please. He's been on a rival team of mine his entire career. I know what he was able to contribute at one point. I know what he still is able to contribute now. He's not someone I'm painting as a fringe NHL'er or a guy that is AHL quality. He's a solid middle six winger probably closer to 3rd line level the past few years that brings a quality physical element and draws penalties pretty well. Doesn't mean that he's worth another five years at just south of six mil when he's already trending downward at 32 while being under contract until he's 37. Players like him who throw the body around frequently tend to wear down quickly. He's already shown some of that wear and tear. He's at least been able to stay healthy while his production dropped dramatically. But what happens over that time frame when that is no longer the case? These are things teams, especially expansion franchises because their margin for error is slimmer, have to think about when looking at acquiring someone with Brown's kind of contract.

If the Kings were willing to retain a decent chunk of Brown's contract in a trade then his value changes. They may not need to add a 1st to move him but nobody is taking that contract for free as it is.

no offense, but just a first round and nothing else, for that contract?? no way.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

no offense, but just a first round and nothing else, for that contract?? no way.

I don't think a 1st gets Brown moved with no retention. If they were willing to eat half the contract, I don't think they'd need a 1st to move him at that rate. If it's somewhere in the middle of those two things, it could be a 1st to move him but it depends on where that pick is at.

 

[LDF]

I don't think a 1st gets Brown moved with no retention. If they were willing to eat half the contract, I don't think they'd need a 1st to move him at that rate. If it's somewhere in the middle of those two things, it could be a 1st to move him but it depends on where that pick is at.

well i am basing my opinion on what was paid by other team in the past, to rid themselves of burdensome contracts.

Brown's contracts goes for what, 4-5 more yrs at something like 5.5 per......

so 1 draft pick, regardless if it was a first rounder, imo is not enuf.

 

[Kahvi]

In this scenario it's not only that LA gets rid of Brown's contract, they also will not lose anyone else left unprotected. Rules say that LV has to pick exactly one player from each team.

 

[Kent Nilsson]

No team would take Brown for a mid 1st. AND Vegas surrenders its LA pick ? Jeez.

Clearly no one in this thread has watched a Kings game this year. Brown is having a bounceback year, looks healthy for the first time in years. He is overpaid and has too much term but its not nearly as bad as people are making it out to be. Brown is still a solid player and looks to be flirting with getting to 50 points this year. No way la gives up a first to get rid of him.

He skates like he's playing dek hockey at this point. His body is done before long.

 

[YP44]

I don't think a 1st gets Brown moved with no retention. If they were willing to eat half the contract, I don't think they'd need a 1st to move him at that rate. If it's somewhere in the middle of those two things, it could be a 1st to move him but it depends on where that pick is at.

LA would not eat almost $3M for 5 more years. If they are that desperate buy out would happen first.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

Well if it had been 19 years and it wasn't until just now that they decided to give Vegas a team, maybe it didn't have anything at all to do with it because one would reasonably suspect that after oh I don't know year 5 that it would be a done deal if it actually had anything to do with awarding franchises. Like I said...your common sense is reaching...far.

As for the players bit since your response is all over the place...

I wasn't advocating all three. They were merely examples of things they can get if they want to address certain elements. However, even if it was all three, those three players at what they'd actually get is still three contributing players. One is a solid middle sixer, one is a solid bottom six player, and one is a solid 4th liner. Chances are those guys are pulling in a combined 7 or 8 million. The key factor though is the terms involved. None of them are going to be overpaid for the next five years to the point that you'd need to pay an additional asset to get rid of them.

As for captain experience, how did that work out for him when he got stripped of it? Obviously the Kings don't value his captain experience to the same degree because they felt it was time to move on from that. If they don't feel his experience is worth keeping him as the captain, why should another team? It's not as if that honestly matters that much. There is much more to the leadership structure of the team than just the captain and the two alternates.

As for watching him play, please. He's been on a rival team of mine his entire career. I know what he was able to contribute at one point. I know what he still is able to contribute now. He's not someone I'm painting as a fringe NHL'er or a guy that is AHL quality. He's a solid middle six winger probably closer to 3rd line level the past few years that brings a quality physical element and draws penalties pretty well. Doesn't mean that he's worth another five years at just south of six mil when he's already trending downward at 32 while being under contract until he's 37. Players like him who throw the body around frequently tend to wear down quickly. He's already shown some of that wear and tear. He's at least been able to stay healthy while his production dropped dramatically. But what happens over that time frame when that is no longer the case? These are things teams, especially expansion franchises because their margin for error is slimmer, have to think about when looking at acquiring someone with Brown's kind of contract.

If the Kings were willing to retain a decent chunk of Brown's contract in a trade then his value changes. They may not need to add a 1st to move him but nobody is taking that contract for free as it is.

Vegas never tried till now but these game are a reason that they did try imo If the games bombed do you think the owners would have gone ahead with it Come on let's not get to ridiculous You're not recognizing that is beyond me. Let it go agree to disagree

I was asking you to come back and get a player that brings what brown brings in one player and it must be cheaper then brown.You kept saying there is a lot and cheaper then browns can. BACK YOUR WORD OR ADMIT YOU CAN'T DO IT. You're the one that brought up 3 different people not me So our management felt that it was a time for a change in leadership in our locker room That doesn't mean he did a bad job as they stated when they did it only it was time for a change is all . Not many teams has a captain that had as many years as dustin. It was time for a change. Just like changing coaches same way of thinking. Brown has done a ton for the kings on and off ice. Brown was a captain that took a crap team to 2 cups that in itself is enough to prove he was a good captain

Next this 5 years left on his contract there will be another labour lock out in a couple years and im more than positive the nhl will have buyouts again after the strike. He will not be on this contract by then.

As for his production slipping He is more responsible for defensive mins and no longer is playing with kopitar and top pp time. This is going to drop anyones point total from what it one was. The value in Brown is defensive play hits and drawing penalties

As for getting rid of brown as long as he continues to play as he has I hope he stays However to play along with this thread our first would be more then enough to trade him imo

 

[me2]

LA would not eat almost $3M for 5 more years. If they are that desperate buy out would happen first.

How is the buyout better? It is an ugly buyout.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

well i am basing my opinion on what was paid by other team in the past, to rid themselves of burdensome contracts.

Brown's contracts goes for what, 4-5 more yrs at something like 5.5 per......

so 1 draft pick, regardless if it was a first rounder, imo is not enuf.

Not for the full value of the contract, I agree. If they want Vegas to take Brown w/o retaining salary, the Kings will have to do more than a 1st rounder I think. But with the retaining option, there's some gray area depending on how much the Kings are willing to retain.

LA would not eat almost $3M for 5 more years. If they are that desperate buy out would happen first.

You could be right but eating three million for five years may be preferable to having a cap hit on the books for twice what's left of the contract which if we're talking this coming off-season would be ten years. There's a minor coupe mil saved by retaining half and the cap number fluctuates through the buyout between 1.075 in the first year to 3.575 in years four and five before having a 1.7 mil cap hit for six thru ten. Whether that difference is worth a 1st or whatever to the Kings is tough to say but I'd probably say you're right.

Vegas never tried till now but these game are a reason that they did try imo If the games bombed do you think the owners would have gone ahead with it Come on let's not get to ridiculous You're not recognizing that is beyond me. Let it go agree to disagree

I was asking you to come back and get a player that brings what brown brings in one player and it must be cheaper then brown.You kept saying there is a lot and cheaper then browns can. BACK YOUR WORD OR ADMIT YOU CAN'T DO IT. You're the one that brought up 3 different people not me So our management felt that it was a time for a change in leadership in our locker room That doesn't mean he did a bad job as they stated when they did it only it was time for a change is all . Not many teams has a captain that had as many years as dustin. It was time for a change. Just like changing coaches same way of thinking. Brown has done a ton for the kings on and off ice. Brown was a captain that took a crap team to 2 cups that in itself is enough to prove he was a good captain

Next this 5 years left on his contract there will be another labour lock out in a couple years and im more than positive the nhl will have buyouts again after the strike. He will not be on this contract by then.

As for his production slipping He is more responsible for defensive mins and no longer is playing with kopitar and top pp time. This is going to drop anyones point total from what it one was. The value in Brown is defensive play hits and drawing penalties

As for getting rid of brown as long as he continues to play as he has I hope he stays However to play along with this thread our first would be more then enough to trade him imo

Vegas couldn't try until now because they didn't have the two important factors in place until now. And none of them include a proven track record of selling out a single preseason game for the last however many years it is. If the games bombed, it would have absolutely no impact on their decision whatsoever because 500 million and a new arena to play in are significantly more important towards that decision than a meaningless preseason game.

As for Brown, you're just moving the goal posts to suit your argument. Building a team from scratch through the expansion draft doesn't require that they be able to bring in someone exactly like Brown for them to build their team with the elements that Brown does bring. As for his captaincy thing, if he was doing good, they wouldn't feel the need to go in a different direction. That reasoning is just the political way to say it because he's still part of the team going forward since they likely can't move him.

You're really reaching on the whole another lockout thing. There is an opt out in 2019. Chances are both sides are going to decline that. Even if there is a side that opts out, there is no guarantee that there will be a compliance buyout. Regardless of where one stands on that, no GM in their right mind is going to bank on what you're banking on.

No matter where you see Brown's value in as a player, it doesn't reflect in his contract and that contract is a humongous factor for attempting to make a deal for him or the Kings trying to move him.

 

[Rorschach]

In this scenario it's not only that LA gets rid of Brown's contract, they also will not lose anyone else left unprotected. Rules say that LV has to pick exactly one player from each team.

Exactly. To gauge LA value, you have to add both of these assets together. Right now Forbort might be exposed.

If Vegas comes back and says they want more because Forbort himself is almost worth a first, LA will need to pony up.

 

[YP44]

How is the buyout better? It is an ugly buyout.

yes it would be for 10 years but it lower the cap hit more than retaining $3M. Any retention over $1.7M makes it not worthwhile for the kings IMO.

 

[YP44]

Exactly. To gauge LA value, you have to add both of these assets together. Right now Forbort might be exposed.

If Vegas comes back and says they want more because Forbort himself is almost worth a first, LA will need to pony up.

there will be teams that lose a lot more than Derek Forbort. LA, I think, is set up to come through the expansion draft better than most.

 

[LDF]

i wrote something similar on the hawks site and well, it is about the right time to post it here.

if done right, LV could really reap a great harvest of drafting contracts or trading for them, for a fee.

now think about this, outside, the kings/brown, how many teams have some contract that they would love to get rid off.

if it was me, i would do the draft in the normal way and after, make additional trades for assets.

so in that thinking, the kings will really have to pony up, and pony up big.