HamiltonNHL
Resigning Marner == Running it back
- Jan 4, 2012
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Kyle Dubas discussion
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BertCorbeau
F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
You mean the goalie that Dubas signed?
Dubas was given this squad on a golden platter....Cup dreams seem very real. Overflowing with prospects the cue the disaster.....Overpaying guys, forced the bottom 6 to be a revolving door, no concept of grit, no concept of how important a D core is, cant develop Dmen, Goaltending is a roller coaster ride, deal all your picks. Worse than John Ferguson JR.
Hmm you managed to the overtly negative spin or are just wrong on almost every single point. Way to be an overachiever.
riffle
Registered User
Kyle is one of the nicest guys in sports, at least from the outside looking in.
Can't let him being a tremendous person blind to the fact his team has won zero playoff rounds and created what seems to be a soft passionless group on the verge of another first round failure, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on that.
Love his creativity and ability to find guys like Kase and Bunting. Those are the types that help you win when it matters, although Kase's body is not fit for the long haul. Don't recall a player who seemed as fragile.
Hate him trapping himself when it comes to money where he has to pay resources to get out from under bad moves IE: Ritchie But, love that he didn't just pretend things were okay with Slick Nick and sent him away. Always nice when a GM acknowledges a mistake, and that it was, and a costly one. Nice that he didn't just have to Marleau this one and got back an asset who appears to be a serviceable Dman in Lyubushkin.
Don't like his penchant for finding washed guys like Thornton, Simmonds, Spezza, etc. and consider that fixing the toughness/grit/maturity issue.
Hated the naming of JT as "C". A guy who was brought in via FA becomes the appointed leader as an outsider instead of promoting from within, if you will. Perhaps, Matthews was the pick but his Arizona summer troubles nixed that, I don't know, but JT should've never been named captain. I think that set this team back.
Hate his willingness or need to burn picks. A GM who does this as routinely as Kyle better get results. He has not to this point.
Love his care and compassion for injured players. The injury to Cobra in NJ really stands out to me.
Hate his philosophizing and self-validation of paying 4 forwards 40 million when it has failed over and over. Think he's brutal at doing long term deals with players giving wrong terms and bloated cap numbers.
Love his belief in what he's doing, as misguided as I think his approach has been. He has tweaked his philosophy while not abandoning it. I appreciate his willingness to try new things when he fails.
Wish he prioritized intangibles more than he does. He is a cold sterile analytical type. There is value there but hockey like all sports is a human game. I wish he'd paid more attention to that from the beginning. Don't believe the player-friendly culture is conducive to on-ice success but is a draw for FAs. Many guys want to come here to be passengers at ends of careers. He encourages that.
Not a fan of the very child-like ways he deals with his players when speaking of them in the media as to handling them as if they're extremely mentally brittle. I would swear he's managing peewees when he speaks sometimes. Would prefer he was bolder as to being about winning and not put so much focus on things that don't have to do with that.
Not a fan of his addiction to Soo connections. Every GM has their guys but he seems to pump a lot of water from that old well.
I know I was deathly curious when he took over if his philosophies would translate to winning. I think he found they don't and as mentioned above has at least been willing to tweak them somewhat.
Applaud him for moving on from Babcock and bringing in the guy he thinks represents his philosophy on and off the ice.
Wish he'd tweak his philosophy on paying 4 forwards 40 million and ship one out. He doesn't seem to have the stones to do that tough thing that needs to be done. He'd rather grind away on the periphery than get to the net so to speak and realize too much cap is in 4 guys and as much as you love your players, that model is just not a good one for winning Cups.
Overall, I love the guy, personally. He's a great representative from a PR standpoint. I wish he was equal in pushing hard to win it all and came off that way through more accountability. I don't believe he runs a tight ship as to promoting a sold out for winning culture and should be managing younger players and not men.
Can't let him being a tremendous person blind to the fact his team has won zero playoff rounds and created what seems to be a soft passionless group on the verge of another first round failure, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on that.
Love his creativity and ability to find guys like Kase and Bunting. Those are the types that help you win when it matters, although Kase's body is not fit for the long haul. Don't recall a player who seemed as fragile.
Hate him trapping himself when it comes to money where he has to pay resources to get out from under bad moves IE: Ritchie But, love that he didn't just pretend things were okay with Slick Nick and sent him away. Always nice when a GM acknowledges a mistake, and that it was, and a costly one. Nice that he didn't just have to Marleau this one and got back an asset who appears to be a serviceable Dman in Lyubushkin.
Don't like his penchant for finding washed guys like Thornton, Simmonds, Spezza, etc. and consider that fixing the toughness/grit/maturity issue.
Hated the naming of JT as "C". A guy who was brought in via FA becomes the appointed leader as an outsider instead of promoting from within, if you will. Perhaps, Matthews was the pick but his Arizona summer troubles nixed that, I don't know, but JT should've never been named captain. I think that set this team back.
Hate his willingness or need to burn picks. A GM who does this as routinely as Kyle better get results. He has not to this point.
Love his care and compassion for injured players. The injury to Cobra in NJ really stands out to me.
Hate his philosophizing and self-validation of paying 4 forwards 40 million when it has failed over and over. Think he's brutal at doing long term deals with players giving wrong terms and bloated cap numbers.
Love his belief in what he's doing, as misguided as I think his approach has been. He has tweaked his philosophy while not abandoning it. I appreciate his willingness to try new things when he fails.
Wish he prioritized intangibles more than he does. He is a cold sterile analytical type. There is value there but hockey like all sports is a human game. I wish he'd paid more attention to that from the beginning. Don't believe the player-friendly culture is conducive to on-ice success but is a draw for FAs. Many guys want to come here to be passengers at ends of careers. He encourages that.
Not a fan of the very child-like ways he deals with his players when speaking of them in the media as to handling them as if they're extremely mentally brittle. I would swear he's managing peewees when he speaks sometimes. Would prefer he was bolder as to being about winning and not put so much focus on things that don't have to do with that.
Not a fan of his addiction to Soo connections. Every GM has their guys but he seems to pump a lot of water from that old well.
I know I was deathly curious when he took over if his philosophies would translate to winning. I think he found they don't and as mentioned above has at least been willing to tweak them somewhat.
Applaud him for moving on from Babcock and bringing in the guy he thinks represents his philosophy on and off the ice.
Wish he'd tweak his philosophy on paying 4 forwards 40 million and ship one out. He doesn't seem to have the stones to do that tough thing that needs to be done. He'd rather grind away on the periphery than get to the net so to speak and realize too much cap is in 4 guys and as much as you love your players, that model is just not a good one for winning Cups.
Overall, I love the guy, personally. He's a great representative from a PR standpoint. I wish he was equal in pushing hard to win it all and came off that way through more accountability. I don't believe he runs a tight ship as to promoting a sold out for winning culture and should be managing younger players and not men.
The Podium
Registered User
This team is 5th in the entire league and 8 points off of the presidents trophy ffs. This place is a joke 
Even with leagues worst goaltending over 2+ months they are 19-9-3 in that span. Imagine where this team would be with average goaltending?
Instead of focusing on the 10 mill “wasted” why don’t you consider the fact that the 2.7 mill you didn’t mention is Bunting, Kase and Kampf. Or why did you not mention that Ritchie has been turned into Lyubushkin who is currently doing well playing on the top pair?
Even with leagues worst goaltending over 2+ months they are 19-9-3 in that span. Imagine where this team would be with average goaltending?
Instead of focusing on the 10 mill “wasted” why don’t you consider the fact that the 2.7 mill you didn’t mention is Bunting, Kase and Kampf. Or why did you not mention that Ritchie has been turned into Lyubushkin who is currently doing well playing on the top pair?
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Best GM we've had in 20 years. Low bar to clear, and he's certainly made his share of mistakes, but I look around the league and I don't see many who are actually better at their jobs than Dubas is. Results are what matter in this business and he hasn't been able to get them, but honestly, I blame the players for losing to Montreal. The job of the GM is to put the best team on the ice, and while he inherited a good team I think he's done well to add value.
I have no problem talking about the mistakes that he's made with contracts, lost trades, or whatever ails you. But I have to hand the guy credit when I think that his mistakes at least made sense to try. And at the end of the day, I see the Leafs are consistently a top team. We don't have to be Tampa Bay for me to like the GM, and I'm not going to hate a guy when I think it's his players (looking at you Marner) letting him down. Accountability is important and while I understand that he may get a pink slip this summer if the Leafs don't win, that doesn't mean I have to like it. I'd consider it a damn waste.
I have no problem talking about the mistakes that he's made with contracts, lost trades, or whatever ails you. But I have to hand the guy credit when I think that his mistakes at least made sense to try. And at the end of the day, I see the Leafs are consistently a top team. We don't have to be Tampa Bay for me to like the GM, and I'm not going to hate a guy when I think it's his players (looking at you Marner) letting him down. Accountability is important and while I understand that he may get a pink slip this summer if the Leafs don't win, that doesn't mean I have to like it. I'd consider it a damn waste.
Mess
Global Moderator
Leafs Nation has already seen this .... Way back in 2017-18 they finished tied for 6th overall in points with 105 and 12 points off the President's Trophy. They were 3rd in GF and 10th in goals against.This team is 5th in the entire league and 8 points off of the presidents trophy ffs. This place is a joke
This is the team Kyle Dubas inherited. So 4 years later being in the same spot with now the 3 Amigo's in their prime isn't really something to get excited about. .. Been there, done that !!!!
We all know the frustrating part is not about duplicating past NHL regular season results, but rather the disappointing playoff results that followed.
Kyle Dubas was hired to move the ball forward not keep it in place.
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No body is perfect,he has done some good things,his creativity is great.
The JT signing was not good and MM contracts is too much along with flat cap has handcuffed to maybe do a few things he would not have wanted to do.
Maybe there would be no need to trade for Folingno last year.
Would have been more money for defence
and goalie.
I would would like to see what he could do not being up against the cap.But he put him self there..
hine
The JT signing was not good and MM contracts is too much along with flat cap has handcuffed to maybe do a few things he would not have wanted to do.
Maybe there would be no need to trade for Folingno last year.
Would have been more money for defence
and goalie.
I would would like to see what he could do not being up against the cap.But he put him self there..
hine
Gary Nylund
Registered User
- Oct 10, 2013
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This team is 5th in the entire league and 8 points off of the presidents trophy ffs. This place is a joke
Even with leagues worst goaltending over 2+ months they are 19-9-3 in that span. Imagine where this team would be with average goaltending?
Any team could point to their weak spot and say imagine if this was better but it doesn't work that way. Dubas is responsible for 100% of this team and that includes the goaltending as it does most of the core who were in place before he took over.
The team is exactly where it was years go, most likely heading for a 5-7th overall finish and most likely heading for a 6th consecutive 1st round playoff exit.
Agree with all this, Bunting especially was a fantastic signing.
This team was so stacked with talent when Dubas took over that it would have to be a truly terrible GM for us not to be a top team (assuming 5-7th overall and always losing in the playoffs is a "top team").
As far as the pink slip if we don't win, I'm on the fence. I like most of the moves Dubas has made but it's possible that the one move he has refused to make (trading a high priced core piece to better balance the team) has doomed us to failure. But let's wait and see what happens, I wanted to see what we could get for Marner last summer and I assume the return would have been huge, and we might have been a better team for it today. But who knows, if we finally have playoff success and Marner finally kills it in the playoffs and helps lead the way I just might be happy that we didn't move him. But if we fail miserably again, if we go to game 7 and lose 5-1 or whatever like we usually do and Marner has another mediocre 5 points in 7 games or WE playoffs, then it will appear that moving him last summer would have been best.
We'll see what happens.
The Podium
Registered User
Sometimes you need to take a step back before you can take 2 steps forward. Unfortunately the danger of a revolving door of GMs, it takes some time to dismantle before you can build your vision. Success is never linear and this team is solid goaltending away from winning it all.
Kyle took over a team that finished tied for 6th in the league. He's managed, in only 4 short years, to propel this team all the way up to 5th (thus far).
Multiple 1sts have been shed, every dollar of cap space has been spent, any morsel of indentity has been unidentified.
But I'd do it all again in a heartbeat.
Multiple 1sts have been shed, every dollar of cap space has been spent, any morsel of indentity has been unidentified.
But I'd do it all again in a heartbeat.
I'm not sure why I keep hearing him being so against trading a 1st for a rental. If they get beat again in the 1st round, what's the excuse to keep him around? That's 6 times in a row, heads have to roll.
The Podium
Registered User
So you’re upset that he’s not looking to make a reactionary trade to potentially save his job rather than concerning himself with the long term potential of this team?
In all serious, it matters not what moves we do or do not make while having 3 x 11mil forwards. That's the beginning and the end of the issues there. We can reconfigure the deck chairs all we want.
Isn't it a bit too late to be worrying a out throwing another 1st round pick away. Are we now concerned about having some kind of future as opposed to going for it? I think that ship left port a while back.
The Podium
Registered User
3 x 11 million forwards isn’t a problem with good value adds and an soon to be influx of cheap ELCs
If Mrazek played at a level of his career average, we wouldn’t be talking about cap space allocation at all.
The Podium
Registered User
Why can’t it be both? If Knies comes in an is able to produce on an ELC is that not valuable to a win-now competitive window?
CabanaBoy5
Registered User
I think time has made you forget how truly horrific JFJ was. After all, he was the guy who traded a first round pick for Vesa Toskala, traded Tuuka Rask for Andrew Raycroft, and offered a 5 year deal to Jason Blake. Yikes.
The Podium
Registered User
Wasn't that team heavily propped up by SO wins and closer to 10th in ROW? Still a good season, but not many shootouts in the playoffs
ACC1224
Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
- Aug 19, 2002
- 78,334
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Think that was Gramps. He’s still around as an advisor, yikes.
Gary Nylund
Registered User
- Oct 10, 2013
- 31,704
- 25,546
Probably more accurate to say that with solid goaltending, this team moves up from the 5-7 range to the 1-4 range in the regular season. In the playoffs though, who knows. The way we fold in game 7's bugs me more than anything else and it's not just the goaltending that always falls apart just before the finish line.
Maybe so. That's exactly what I was thinking when I said we should see what we could get for Marner last summer.
Our core is young and our window isn't on the verge of closing so IMO the future still is worthy of consideration.
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