Kyle Dubas discussion

[meefer]

Best GM we've had in 20 years. Low bar to clear, and he's certainly made his share of mistakes, but I look around the league and I don't see many who are actually better at their jobs than Dubas is. Results are what matter in this business and he hasn't been able to get them, but honestly, I blame the players for losing to Montreal. The job of the GM is to put the best team on the ice, and while he inherited a good team I think he's done well to add value.

I have no problem talking about the mistakes that he's made with contracts, lost trades, or whatever ails you. But I have to hand the guy credit when I think that his mistakes at least made sense to try. And at the end of the day, I see the Leafs are consistently a top team. We don't have to be Tampa Bay for me to like the GM, and I'm not going to hate a guy when I think it's his players (looking at you Marner) letting him down. Accountability is important and while I understand that he may get a pink slip this summer if the Leafs don't win, that doesn't mean I have to like it. I'd consider it a damn waste.

As sensible a comment as I’ve seen on this board for many a day.

 

[ACC1224]

As sensible a comment as I’ve seen on this board for many a day.

In fairness I just returned from vacation last night.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Unfortunately the danger of a revolving door of GMs, it takes some time to dismantle before you can build your vision.

If it takes time, you don't blow the bank early on a UFA C.

 

[Ciao]

@All Mod Cons : I don't know what criteria you're thinking of in saying Dubas is just a run-of-the-mill GM like 75% of the others.

I think Julien briseBois has far surpassed whatever Dubas has done and has been a better GM in the three-and-a-half years since Dubas took over.

I think Don Waddell, Joe Sakic and Doug Armstrong have also been better in that time. However, it's worth noting that none of them won a Stanley Cup or had much playoff success in their first three seasons -- and Armstrong is the only one to have won a Stanley Cup at all after have been much longer on the job.

If you look at where the Leafs were when Dubas took over, the Leafs have done much better to date than teams managed by Don Sweeney, Kevin Cheldayoff and David Poile. David Poile is one of my favourite GMs, and probably one of the few that I would prefer over Dubas -- perhaps along with briseBois and maybe Sakic ( who at earlier stages of his career had his own band of harsh critics).

Looking at results, I think this early in his career Dubas is very much above average in the field. He's surely not the Messiah, but he's not stupid (as some would have it) and his performance is significantly above average IMHO.

 

[theTTC]

Everything will be forgiven if the leafs can win a playoff round.

One round works for you?

 

[Strangle]

The GM doesn’t win games. Dubas has done a really great job, the players need to figure out how they are going to win

 

[Dreakmur]

The GM doesn’t win games. Dubas has done a really great job, the players need to figure out how they are going to win

The GM assembles players to win games. If the players can’t do that, it’s on the GM.

Dubas has done many good things, but getting over the hump is the toughest part.

 

[Strangle]

The GM assembles players to win games. If the players can’t do that, it’s on the GM.

Dubas has done many good things, but getting over the hump is the toughest part.

This is a weird way to look at it. The GM doesn’t control the players. They need to play.

The way the NHL is set up, with the salary cap, this is the result the league wants. The GM can’t just add players until they win, you pick the best players available and then you have to let them play.

If the GM has put together the best talent they can, it’s now on the players to win.

If Dubas could just go and add a parayko or shesterkin or something but didn’t, then sure it’s his fault. But that’s not how the league works

 

[Apex Predator]

One round works for you?

I want more but considering we will have to go through a convo of tampa florida carolina I think winning one round as long as there isn’t any sort of collapse or lack of effort in elimination game is good. I want to see some progress.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

I’m still trying to figure out how the first post in the thread is quoting someone else?
Can’t say I’m much of a fan of the new site.

That’s what I was wondering too. Weird start to a thread.

 

[DueDiligence]

Leafs Nation has already seen this .... Way back in 2017-18 they finished tied for 6th overall in points with 105 and 12 points off the President's Trophy. They were 3rd in GF and 10th in goals against.

This is the team Kyle Dubas inherited. So 4 years later being in the same spot with now the 3 Amigo's in their prime isn't really something to get excited about. .. Been there, done that !!!!

We all know the frustrating part is not about duplicating past NHL regular season results, but rather the disappointing playoff results that followed.

Kyle Dubas was hired to move the ball forward not keep it in place.

That's the point that Dubas supporters are ignoring. Yes the Leafs are playing well this year but are they in any better position than 4 years ago? Not really.

 

[Apex Predator]

This is a weird way to look at it. The GM doesn’t control the players. They need to play.

The way the NHL is set up, with the salary cap, this is the result the league wants. The GM can’t just add players until they win, you pick the best players available and then you have to let them play.

If the GM has put together the best talent they can, it’s now on the players to win.

If Dubas could just go and add a parayko or shesterkin or something but didn’t, then sure it’s his fault. But that’s not how the league works

He doubled down on this group so if he fails again this year he needs to admit this isn’t work and move one of Marner or nylander. Most likely nylander.

Matthews isn’t getting traded and with Tavares NMC and cap hit I find it hard to trade him.

 

[zeke]

"The GM inherited an awesome team but needs to trade his core players because they cant win"

 

[Strangle]

He doubled down on this group so if he fails again this year he needs to admit this isn’t work and move one of Marner or nylander. Most likely nylander.

Matthews isn’t getting traded and with Tavares NMC and cap hit I find it hard to trade him.

I’ve been wanting him to make a blockbuster deal around Marner too. And I love Marner

 

[Dreakmur]

This is a weird way to look at it. The GM doesn’t control the players. They need to play.

The way the NHL is set up, with the salary cap, this is the result the league wants. The GM can’t just add players until they win, you pick the best players available and then you have to let them play.

If the GM has put together the best talent they can, it’s now on the players to win.

If Dubas could just go and add a parayko or shesterkin or something but didn’t, then sure it’s his fault. But that’s not how the league works

Players that don’t perform at key times are the wrong players to have. It’s the GM’s job to figure out who those guys are and ditch them.

 

[Strangle]

Players that don’t perform at key times are the wrong players to have. It’s the GM’s job to figure out who those guys are and ditch them.

Okay, but only if there are better players available, right? Otherwise, you actually need the players you have access to to perform.

It’s not the GM’s fault. Dubas has done very well.

 

[Dreakmur]

Okay, but only if there are better players available, right? Otherwise, you actually need the players you have access to to perform.

It’s not the GM’s fault. Dubas has done very well.

Depends entirely what you mean by better players. Is a guy who scores less in the regular season but more in the playoffs better?

It is the GM’s fault if he can’t identify chokers. That doesn’t mean he hasn’t done a good job overall, but it sure as hell is his responsibility to acquire players who can perform under pressure.

 

[Strangle]

Depends entirely what you mean by better players. Is a guy who scores less in the regular season but more in the playoffs better?

It is the GM’s fault if he can’t identify chokers. That doesn’t mean he hasn’t done a good job overall, but it sure as hell is his responsibility to acquire players who can perform under pressure.

Right, so Marner was terrible in the playoffs last year. Dumb Dubas, it’s obviously the GM’s fault for having him on the team

 

[Ciao]

That's the point that Dubas supporters are ignoring. Yes the Leafs are playing well this year but are they in any better position than 4 years ago? Not really.

The Leafs roster is much stronger now than it was when Dubas took over. That much is better.

The season isn't over, and playoffs haven't even begun. I don't know how you would compare this season to the 2017-18 season, unless you want to pre-judge this year's results.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Dubas was given this squad on a golden platter....Cup dreams seem very real. Overflowing with prospects the cue the disaster.....Overpaying guys, forced the bottom 6 to be a revolving door, no concept of grit, no concept of how important a D core is, cant develop Dmen, Goaltending is a roller coaster ride, deal all your picks. Worse than John Ferguson JR.

What cupboard of prospects? He inherited a team with three elite young forwards and a decent D man. Knock it off. There were some really bad contracts left behind by the previous regime and along with an unwillingness to cash in on upcoming UFA’s although they were just two years into a rebuild. Look at the blue line that last game vs Boston Lou led.
Rielly-Hainsey
Gardener-Zaitsev
Borgman/Dermott/Polak.
Now look at the blue line today and tell me it’s not better.
Same with the forward core. The team is better today than they were when he assumed the role.
None of that matters if the goaltending falters again though, just like it has in years past.

 

[DueDiligence]

"The GM inherited an awesome team but needs to trade his core players because they cant win"

Or Dubas inherited a pretty good team with lots of potential and hasn't really made any real progress.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Or Dubas inherited a pretty good team with lots of potential and hasn't really made any real progress.

That's just it. If they actually win a round this year he may be safe but I don't know how you stick with him if they go out on round 1. He's done some good things he's done some bad things but the way this team is built just may not work.
Hope I'm wrong

 

[capfit9]

Ok crystal ball…

you seem to be doing the same thing. btw, you can't deny my argument for excuse making because you know that's exactly what they will do but you choose to ignore it

 

[fahad203]

To me hes ok. But hes loyalty to fault will be his demise

You can do 100 things right but if you do one or two important things wrong that will derail everything

His hiring of Keefe is the biggest mistake he has ever made and that will be his downfall with this organization

I dont care how many wins Keefe has or how fast. Andrew Raycroft is the second most winning goalie in leafs history. That tells you how your number can hide who you really are

Ill give him credit. Hes trying. Its really tough when you have no cap room.

To me hes still better suited to be head of scout or player development

Kind of like another ex leaf gm JFJ

Good at drafting. Not good at anything else

 

[Dreakmur]

Right, so Marner was terrible in the playoffs last year. Dumb Dubas, it’s obviously the GM’s fault for having him on the team

That’s a bit of an exaggeration, but at least you’re starting to get it.