Kucherov vs Kane

[bobholly39]

He’s 5th at worst after Ovechkin, Malkin and Fedorov. Arguable with Bure. Datsyuk, Kovalchuk and others have no argument over him.

Yeah that’s who I’d have ahead of him. Ovi, Malkin, Feds. Bure is arguable. Agreed.

It's Overchkin > Malkin ~ Kucherov > Fedorov

Among the forwards you listed, he's already #2 or #3 at worst.

Fedorov only once finished in the top 5 in scoring (2nd) whereas Kucherov has done so 5x.
Fedorov only once finished top 5 in ppg (4th place), Kucherov has done it 5x
Kucherov has better playoff runs than Fedorov. Put up top 5 runs vs top 5 runs, Kucherov easily ahead

Fedorov remains one of the most overrated players ever on HF. Kucherov has already surpassed him, despite half the career games.

 

[Felidae]

so here's how each of their top 5 point finishes stacked against the rest of their competition since their actual placements are nearly identical (All seasons before 31 years of age, OP's cutoff)


Kucherov

2016-17
5th in points
10 point gap over 10th best point producer
16 point gap over 20th best

2017-18
3rd in points
11 point gap over 10th best point producer
18 point gap over 20th best

2018-19
1st in points
32 point gap over 10th best point producer
44 point gap over 20th best.

2022-23
3rd in points.
11 point gap over 10th best
26 point gap over 20th best


Patrick Kane

2012-13
5th in points
6 point gap over 10th
10 point gap over 20th

2015-16
1st in points
29 point gap over 10th best point producer
39 point gap over 20th

2016-17
3rd in points
14 point gap over 10th
20 point gap over 20th.

2017-18
3rd in points
14 point gap over 10th
26 point gap over 20th



For everyone who wants to see it in a straight line

Kucherov
Point gaps over 10th: 32, 11, 11, 10
Point gaps over 20th: 44, 26, 18, 16

Kane
Point gaps over 10th: 29, 14, 14, 6,
Point gaps over 20th: 39, 26, 20, 10

So yeah, doesn't really make the answer any more decisive, lol.

Kucherov doesn't "look" better because of higher scoring environment, their point finishes AND dominance over their competition is as identical as 2 players can get. Regardless of era.

If we arent going by OP's requirements though, Kane obviously has the edge if we're looking at their entire careers since he's added a few elite seasons (top 10 point finishes) past the age of 31, but Kucherov has a lot of time to add still.

 

[FrankSidebottom]

It's Overchkin > Malkin ~ Kucherov > Fedorov

Among the forwards you listed, he's already #2 or #3 at worst.

Fedorov only once finished in the top 5 in scoring (2nd) whereas Kucherov has done so 5x.
Fedorov only once finished top 5 in ppg (4th place), Kucherov has done it 5x
Kucherov has better playoff runs than Fedorov. Put up top 5 runs vs top 5 runs, Kucherov easily ahead

Fedorov remains one of the most overrated players ever on HF. Kucherov has already surpassed him, despite half the career games.

Kucherov has 0 Selkes vs 2 Fedorov’s though. Kucherov needs some relevant longevity to surpass Fedorov but it’s doable.

 

[bobholly39]

Kucherov has 0 Selkes vs 2 Fedorov’s though. Kucherov needs some relevant longevity to surpass Fedorov but it’s doable.

Kucherov has 650 career games to Fedorov's 1248 games. If you want to argue career vs career Fedorov is still ahead due to longevity, I won't argue much - Kucherov does need longevity to cap off his amazing prime/career.

But prime for prime, Kucherov is already ahead.

 

[Gurglesons]

It's Overchkin > Malkin ~ Kucherov > Fedorov

Among the forwards you listed, he's already #2 or #3 at worst.

Fedorov only once finished in the top 5 in scoring (2nd) whereas Kucherov has done so 5x.
Fedorov only once finished top 5 in ppg (4th place), Kucherov has done it 5x
Kucherov has better playoff runs than Fedorov. Put up top 5 runs vs top 5 runs, Kucherov easily ahead

Fedorov remains one of the most overrated players ever on HF. Kucherov has already surpassed him, despite half the career games.

I don’t see the argument for Malkin and Kucherov being equal.

 

[Lavar Ball]

Very good poll

 

[authentic]

Kane. The Western Conference was a gauntlet back then and also was a lower scoring era. And Kane in clutch moments is the thing of legends.

Actually you bring up a good point about clutch moments, I just read on the Leafs board that Kucherov has 2 goals and 4 assists in 15 elimination games because people were raking on Marner for only having 1 goal and 4 assists in 9 elimination games, I don’t know the numbers for Kane but I’d be shocked if they weren’t way better than that.

He’s 5th at worst after Ovechkin, Malkin and Fedorov. Arguable with Bure. Datsyuk, Kovalchuk and others have no argument over him.

Why would it be arguable with Bure but not Datsyuk? Datsyuk was a better player than Bure

 

[JaegerDice]

Kucherov, but it’s very close.

Kane’s only real case at this point is longevity and a 3rd cup win (which yes, does matter, cause both guys were #1Ws on stacked teams).

 

[FrankSidebottom]

Actually you bring up a good point about clutch moments, I just read on the Leafs board that Kucherov has 2 goals and 4 assists in 19 elimination games because people were raking on Marner for only having 1 goal and 4 assists in 14 elimination games, I don’t know the numbers for Kane but I’d be shocked if they weren’t way better than that.



Why would it be arguable with Bure but not Datsyuk? Datsyuk was a better player than Bure

I used to be a huge fan of Datsyuk but he was not. Btw nice idea for another poll.

 

[authentic]

I used to be a huge fan of Datsyuk but he was not. Btw nice idea for another poll.

I’ve done the poll before, Datsyuk won. Yes he was better because his defense made up for any offensive advantage Bure had

 

[FrankSidebottom]

I’ve done the poll before, Datsyuk won. Yes he was better because his defense made up for any offensive advantage Bure had

Do you have the link?

 

[authentic]

Do you have the link?

Peak Datsyuk vs. Peak Bure

Who was the better player?

forums.hfboards.com

 

[Regal]

Actually you bring up a good point about clutch moments, I just read on the Leafs board that Kucherov has 2 goals and 4 assists in 19 elimination games because people were raking on Marner for only having 1 goal and 4 assists in 14 elimination games, I don’t know the numbers for Kane but I’d be shocked if they weren’t way better than that.



Why would it be arguable with Bure but not Datsyuk? Datsyuk was a better player than Bure

By elimination games is it the actual series deciding game or any game where one team can win the series? I’m pretty sure Kane’s at 39GP 21G 28A 49PTS in any game where either team could win the series, whether they do or not. If it’s the final series deciding game he’s at 25G 16G 15A 31PTS

 

[authentic]

By elimination games is it the actual series deciding game or any game where one team can win the series? I’m pretty sure Kane’s at 39GP 21G 28A 49PTS in any game where either team could win the series, whether they do or not. If it’s the final series deciding game he’s at 25G 16G 15A 31PTS

The games played were actually 15 for Kucherov and 9 for Marner apparently, but something seems off there because the Leafs have only played 8 rounds so it can't be the deciding game, and there's been more than 9 games where either team could've won in Marner's playoff career. I'll have to look up the numbers myself

 

[blundluntman]

Kucherov by a hair. Kane played in a lower scoring era, true, but Kucherov has been pretty much equal to him in scoring finishes and maybe a bit more consistent once he hit full stride. I'd also say he peaked a bit higher than Kane (not by much) and has just as good of a playoff resume if not better. Can't go wrong with either and it could go either way.

 

[CupsOverCash]

I think by the time kuch is done with his career I think he will win this and might not be close. Right now I think its close. I think kuch still has a lot of dominance in his career.

 

[x Tame Impala]

1) League wide scoring needs to be taken into consideration here. Kucherov has played 10 seasons so far. From the 07/08 season to the 16/17 season (Kane's first 10 seasons) league wide scoring was 2.77 GPG. For Kuch's first 10 seasons that rate is 2.92

2) From the 2013/14 season (Kuch's 1st year) until last season, Kane is 3rd in points behind only McDavid and Crosby. Kucherov is 7th with a 92.8 PPG rate. Kane's PPG over that time period is 90.8 so a 2 point difference while Kane is over 4 years older than Kucherov.

Kucherov is amazing and I'm incapable of not being biased here but I'd take Kane all day. If a GM had the chance to draft Kane or Kucherov I'd bet most if not all would take Kane.

 

[centipede2233]

I think kucherov is better but I also think kucherov is kind of a higher maintenance player than Kane. Kane is self motivated where as I think cooper has to motivate kucherov

 

[Ignite111]

I went with Kuch but changed it to Kane when I saw the 1200 GP statline

So the length of his career makes him better in his prime?

 

[ColbyChaos]

Kucherov by a hair. Kane played in a lower scoring era, true, but Kucherov has been pretty much equal to him in scoring finishes and maybe a bit more consistent once he hit full stride. I'd also say he peaked a bit higher than Kane (not by much) and has just as good of a playoff resume if not better. Can't go wrong with either and it could go either way.

Not comparable at all come playoff time

 

[LightningStorm]

Kucherov, but it’s very close.

Kane’s only real case at this point is longevity and a 3rd cup win (which yes, does matter, cause both guys were #1Ws on stacked teams).

I think Kucherov was a little bit better at his peak and is on a trajectory to pass Kane career wise, though I don't think he has yet. The big thing for be is Kucherov hit his stride a little earlier, though I do think this is a good poll because both of them hit their stride at an older age than most elite forwards

Another great poll with no wrong answer would be 2016 Kane vs 2019 Kucherov, After Ovechkin's B2B 2008 and 2009 seasons, I think those are easily the 2 best seasons for a winger post lockout.

 

[blundluntman]

Not comparable at all come playoff time

Yeah it’s not like kucherov has multiple 30 points playoff runs or anything. Definitely a laughable comparison

 

[ColbyChaos]

Yeah it’s not like kucherov has multiple 30 points playoff runs or anything. Definitely a laughable comparison

Higher scoring era look at the numbers in elimination games and try again junior. When things don’t go his way odds are Kucherov would do something dumb and take himself out of the game (like 2019)

 

[TLEH]

They are very similar players. Following the Hawks closely, Kane generally never played with elite players. When he did play with Panarin it was the first time he really had an elite linemate consistently. He won the Ross by 17 points. think Kane almost got robbed a higher producing career with how the Hawks treated him and his line situation.

I could see the argument for either player.

 

[Realgud]

Good poll. I'd choose Kane but it's very close. I think Kane didn't exactly have the same kind of talent around him, and also played in a lower scoring era... but I also think Kucherov was the second best after McDavid these last few years. Tough choice.