SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
I'm not in the room, so I don't know. They wanted him to go down and rehab so they didn't have to make a decision.
Value of: Kravtsov
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I sm sorry thats complete BS. Prior to him being demoted it was listed as a day to day injury so it wasn't serious. They had 3 players who were able to be demoted without waivers kappo, laf and Krav. If he made the team they would of had to cut someone. The 3 choices were him, hajak and Gauthier. They weren't and still show they wouldn't waive them to lose them for nothing. Sorry he was going down no matter what.
- Jul 28, 2011
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Nobody is entitled to a fair shot. If you don't make the team you don't make the team. Whatever the reason might be. Conditioning. Showing up out of shape. Lazy work ethic. Drury's doghouse. Whatever. Nobody is entitled to be put in a position to prove somebody wrong. They don't owe Kravtsov top 6 minutes just because there's a chance he would do well.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
Zach716
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I'd swap 2nds with the Rangers and add a 3rd for Kravtsov. Might not be interesting for Rangers fans but there's obvious attitude issues and he couldn't even crack the roster over average players. The KHL factor is real and who knows if he even returns to the NHL for 5 years.
GMKA also has a different attitude towards Russians than we've seen from our past GMs based on the past draft, adding another to the organization couldn't hurt for the perception of our prospects' POV.
GMKA also has a different attitude towards Russians than we've seen from our past GMs based on the past draft, adding another to the organization couldn't hurt for the perception of our prospects' POV.
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FoxysExpensiveNYDigs
Boo Nieves Truther
No incentive for Rangers to do that. If thats whats being offered, they are better off keeping him.
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even if devalued, Krav would be worth at least a top 40 pick
and NYR (a) dont believe he is genuinely devalued, or (b) that they have any urgency to move him
the vultures circling to sneak away with a gifted blue-chip power/scoring wing ain't surprising,
but it only takes one partner to make a mutually satisfying trade
and it may not be over between NYR and Krav -
he is actually precisely what most pundits and know-it-alls think NYR should add - a scoring RW
Zach716
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Well the 2nd and 3rd will very likely be a top 40 and top 70 pick. I’d be surprised if you get a 1st in a deep ‘22 draft otherwise I’m sure Drury would’ve pulled the trigger by now. Maybe the Florida 1st (Reinhart trade) could be had on draft day depending on who is still on the board at that point.
It’s all contingent on if Rangers see a way forward with him of course.
don't put words in my mouth
"You have conceded that Jay O'Brien, who has not been given a fair chance to play, is not valued at a 19th OA pick for a team looking to acquire him. This is not in a vacuum -- it has direct relevance to your argument."
I have no idea about O'Brien if he actually got a fair shot or not, but at your request I am rolling with presume that is so.
I maintain that based on the eye test [he looked good in camp], and the fact Krav set KHL record and is currently doing well there, IF [and when] he gets a legit chance w/top Fs for decent amount of time, he will succeed.
You make the jump that that would be the case for O'Brien and presumably others.
That ain't necessarily so.
Each situation is dif.
O'B may/may not succeed if he in fact didn't get a fair chance.
The fact O'B is apparently a bust does not mean, automatically, by some reciprocal principle, that Krav would also be.
"It does not hold true because it is illogical to think that a prospect's value cannot change before they get a fair chance to play. It can change, and it actually changes all the time."
It does change all the time, for everybody, in some cases slowly, in others dramatically overnight.
But the issue is not whether his value changes, but whether or not the means of precisely evaluating his production and potential, --- ie how we are testing assessing him --- is accurate or not.
Krav did not get extensive mins w/top guys. That was critical to see if he could play as a top player with them or other other Fs.
That is not a hard concept to understand, and is emminently logical.
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More evaluation is needed including by top level reviewers.
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No, we just disagree.
Rangers as I said had a choice about how many Fs to keep, how many Ds.
They did what they did to be cute b'c they failed to move either Strome or Hajek, so they sent down guys who could be sent w'o risk of waiver selection.
These are the words from your mouth: Relative to "Is Jay O'Brien worth a pick around 19th OA?" I would say no but that, being in a vacuum, does not have relevance to the Krav situation.
I really could not care less about Krav's opportunities, or lack thereof, with the Rangers organization. That is not my argument here and it wasn't yours initially either. YOU said that a prospect's value is equal to his draft position until he gets a chance to play.
I took this from your first post in this thread. These are your exact words:
1. Krav value set by draft pedigree at 9OA.
2. That does not change until he plays meaningful mins long enough to establish his current value.
I am not claiming that O'Brien is a bust, nor am I saying Krav is. I am saying, and I have been this entire time, that a prospect's value, in terms of a draft pick, can change before they get a legitimate chance to play in the NHL. You, on the other hand, held that their value "does not change until he plays meaningful mins long enough to establish his current value."
The value of Kaprisov, O'Brien and Senyshyn all changed before they played meaningful minutes in the NHL. Some for the better and others for the worse. The fact that their value changed contradicts the main premise of your argument. It contradicts it because it is ILLOGICAL to think that a player retains their value until they give you an opportunity to properly assess them. What if Krav was 30 years old but still hadn't gotten a chance to play? According to your argument, because he never got the chance to play meaningful minutes, he would still be worth a 9th OA pick. Does that seem logical to you?
"But the issue is not whether his value changes, but whether or not the means of precisely evaluating his production and potential, --- ie how we are testing assessing him --- is accurate or not."
The bolded is precisely the issue actually. You claimed that his value doesn't change. I, and so many others, claimed the opposite because we've assessed the situation without Rangers jerseys on.
His value changed. Even if he was once worth a 9OA pick, his value has diminished since his draft year. I'm not saying he's a bust; he may very well turn out to be a fine player. What I am saying is that his value has changed and that value is assessed by what teams are willing to trade for him. They certainly would not trade the 9th OA pick for him when there are tons of quality players in the league now that have been traded for a lot less.
You make the jump that that would be the case for O'Brien and presumably others."
The "jump" that I make is contending that a prospects' value is not rigidly fixed. It can increase, decrease or maybe even stay the same. It simply illustrates the main thrust of my argument. It COULD have been the case that his value stayed the same, but he'd have an NHL roster spot if that were the case.
In sum, you basically said that if he doesn't get a chance to prove his worth with meaningful minutes, by default he is worth a 9th OA pick. I said that that was dumb by arguing that there is no such thing as a default value.
Krav did not get extensive mins w/top guys. That was critical to see if he could play as a top player with them or other other Fs.
Actually, they gave him 20 games to prove that he deserved to be put higher in the lineup. This idea that he's entitled to those minutes is stupid. Teams are trying to win, and if that means playing a better option that Krav, they will do it. He is entitled to f*** all. Everything is earned in the NHL.
As it stands, a team will NOT give the Rangers a 9OA pick for Krav, regardless of whether he got the minutes you expect the Rangers to just give him. He has not earned that value.
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- Oct 3, 2013
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Rangers cannot afford Armia and they cannot afford Lehkonen’s RFA raise. Non-starter.
Is Kravtsov ready to step into the NHL or does he need more seasoning?
Vilardi was sent to the AHL to become a winger and recently mentioned he likes playing center more. Could see him wanting a shot at center somewhere and its not gonna happen with the Kings. They were both drafted in similar slots and could be an even exchange one for one.
Kravtsov for Vilardi whatchya think?
Vilardi was sent to the AHL to become a winger and recently mentioned he likes playing center more. Could see him wanting a shot at center somewhere and its not gonna happen with the Kings. They were both drafted in similar slots and could be an even exchange one for one.
Kravtsov for Vilardi whatchya think?
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
That I would definitely have to consider.
FSL KINGS
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Habs Halifax
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GAGLine
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He's in the final year of his ELC already. But if he had 1 more year, he'd be obligated to come back, unless the Rangers agreed to loan him again.
We'll see what happens when his KHL season ends, if the Rangers are still playing. If not, then next year. I'm not holding out much hope that he will ever play again for the Rangers, but you never know.
no to premise and offer
premise -- add mo bodies = NO
Rangers long term best interest is to sell high on Strome NOW stop being stupid and trying to have it both ways by being greedy w/self rental. Deal now and more term = more productive value for longer = larger return.
Then those mins, add Barron and Krav. Subtract like McKegg for mins.
offer:
no we can do better
Although I feel Krav has higher upside incl as to scoring, some variation of this may be worth considering if no better offer presents.
Would prefer not 1:1 small adds both sides, larger add from LA but nothing too crazy.
Also, again, club is taking it on the chin for not listening to me. I have said from early on, give this guy legit chance as a C.
Interest in Villardi is regardless as a legit prospect, just saying ideally should not be doing coke for pepsi, but trying to add.
But it won't be the first or last time someone didn't listen to me and found out later it wouldn't have killed them to consider it with an open mind.
- Jul 28, 2011
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Who is replacing Strome right now? Are we just tossing away the good start to the season to "sell high on Strome"? What impact is that going to have on the team who all seem to love Strome? If we're replacing Strome we need a solution right now. Don't say Barron. We're not moving out Strome in hopes Barron can play immediate #2C. While I would love for that to end up being true that Barron is a capable #2c, we're not going to just put him there and cross our fingers it works out. If it doesn't, we're pretty screwed. Kravtsov won't be back until near season end, if at all. You can't just run around screaming sell high without a plan in place. Right now you don't have a plan other than not wanting to pay these players or lose them for nothing.
FoxysExpensiveNYDigs
Boo Nieves Truther
His "plan" is to play all the yutes, some out of position. Obviously every prospect can replace productive vets.
