Kraken 2024 Offseason chatter

Irie

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Apparently the Sens are interested in Brandon Tanev

They are trying to pull out all the stops to convince his brother to sign in Ottawa

How was Tanev this past season? Would the Kraken be interested in trading him? If so, what do you think the cost would be?
Turbo is awesome. Next year's 1st should do it :sarcasm:

Seriously though, he was not worth his cap hit last year. He turns 33 this year and has a lot of hard miles on his body, so I am not sure he bounces back. That said, he is such a unique player that brings so much energy, I feel like someone could utilize him in their lineup, even at his current cap hit.

As far as attracting Chris by acquiring Brandon, I feel like Ottawa should do more research on that, Chris always mocks Brandon's antics in interviews, so I am not sure that would be quite the selling point they are hoping it would be.
 
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Fistfullofbeer

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Opportunity cost is the issue here for me.

That 8.7M should be used to upgrade their #1 center, not spent on a redundant winger imo.

McCann scored over a third of his points on the PP. I have to believe that Laine and McCann would both be playing the same role on the Kraken's PP, so if you are giving Laine those minutes to boost his production, than McCann's production is going to suffer. If McCann was out of the picture, the move would make sense, but with him in the mix, I feel like adding Laine's contract is negative value in terms of the flexibility to construct a better roster.
We mainly need an elite playmaking forward. A center would be better, but a winger would work too. With the shot Wright has, he could definitely benefit from one.

That said, getting a center upgrade on Beniers is easier said than done.

- No true #1C in UFA. That and we are talking 7/8 year contracts for 28+ year old players.
- The assets it would cost would be very prohibitive

I don't think Laine is a redundant winger. His production at evens is better than McCann's. Sure, he does get a lot of points on the PP, but we were 17th in the league last year in PP%. Even if his contribution is largely in that area, it will help the team add scoring.

He is far from an ideal fit for our team, but if he can bounce back, he could be a valuable asset at the TDL or off-season after this season.
 

Fistfullofbeer

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Turbo is awesome. Next year's 1st should do it :sarcasm:

Seriously though, he was not worth his cap hit last year. He turns 33 this year and has a lot of hard miles on his body, so I am not sure he bounces back. That said, he is such a unique player that brings so much energy, I feel like someone could utilize him in their lineup, even at his current cap hit.

As far as attracting Chris by acquiring Brandon, I feel like Ottawa should do more research on that, Chris always mocks Brandon's antics in interviews, so I am not sure that would be quite the selling point they are hoping it would be.
Yep. Turbo has a lot of miles. I think he will still be a very effective player in the playoffs, but he needs to be in a fourth-line role, which he is overpaid for.

I still think he will get moved this coming TDL, but it will be at 50% retention. He is unlikely to return more than a second-round pick unless he has a really good regular season.

I actually have the opposite opinion as @Irie regarding him and Chris playing together. Given their ages, this may be the last chance for them to play on the same team and could appeal to both. But this is pure speculation on my side.
 

Irie

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Yep. Turbo has a lot of miles. I think he will still be a very effective player in the playoffs, but he needs to be in a fourth-line role, which he is overpaid for.

I still think he will get moved this coming TDL, but it will be at 50% retention. He is unlikely to return more than a second-round pick unless he has a really good regular season.

I actually have the opposite opinion as @Irie regarding him and Chris playing together. Given their ages, this may be the last chance for them to play on the same team and could appeal to both. But this is pure speculation on my side.
The not wanting to play together comment was made in jest. If you listen to Chris' interviews, he is always mocking Brandon's chirping and antics and often says he is happy he doesn't have to deal with them on his own team, but I don't think they are serious comments. I think it is all done in a brotherly love teasing fashion. Some of those interviews are quite hysterical.

I honestly have zero idea if Chris really wouldn't want to play with Brandon for the record. I was just pushing the narrative their mocking banter has provided over the years for fun.
 
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Irie

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We mainly need an elite playmaking forward. A center would be better, but a winger would work too. With the shot Wright has, he could definitely benefit from one.

That said, getting a center upgrade on Beniers is easier said than done.

- No true #1C in UFA. That and we are talking 7/8 year contracts for 28+ year old players.
- The assets it would cost would be very prohibitive

I don't think Laine is a redundant winger. His production at evens is better than McCann's. Sure, he does get a lot of points on the PP, but we were 17th in the league last year in PP%. Even if his contribution is largely in that area, it will help the team add scoring.

He is far from an ideal fit for our team, but if he can bounce back, he could be a valuable asset at the TDL or off-season after this season.

I feel like stat reading on Laine's past is the top reason folks would want to take him on at 8.7M, while ignoring the fit.

Wouldn't it be expected that Laine would more than likely cut into McCann's production on the PP?

If you bring in Laine, one of the big cap hit wingers would absolutely have to be moved out. You can't have a 5-6 million dollar winger on the 4th line. Bjorkstrand, Eberle, Burakovsky, Tolvanen, Schwartz, Laine and McCann all create a big logjam and a substantial salary commitment on the wings.

It is also my strong opinion that if Wright is going to play in the NHL this year, that he should definitely be playing on the wing, which adds another body to the mix with very limited space on the top three lines for wingers.

Now maybe the plan is to run McCann at center, which I am not opposed to completely, but unless Beniers has a big bounce back season, I feel this roster with Laine is not built in a way that would be very competitive.

I would much rather see Francis overspend on a short term UFA center solution that is an overpay than bring in another winger making that kind of money.

I would probably try to move out Dumoulin and Tanev and use that cap with the space they currently have to overpay a playmaking top 6 center and a quality two way 4th line center on short term deals. It would create a much better balanced roster and would help insulate Wright which would be better for his development.
 

majormajor

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I would worry about his production in Seattle for sure. I would not expect him to replicate earlier season numbers playing with the personnel the Kraken have.

He's put up close to PPG seasons playing with a younger Stastny, Voracek, and Gaudreau, but dropped to a 50pt player playing with Bryan little.

Put him on a line with Wright and Bjorkstrand and 50-55 points is about what I would expect. Useful for sure, but not worth 8.7M.

I just don't think the Kraken have the center to play with him that can extract the full potential value of that contract.

You can have a look at who Laine played with in 2021-22 and 2022-23 here, when he scored 108 pts in 111 games.

His most common linemate was Boone Jenner, and then Jack Roslovic. I'd take Bjorkstrand over both of them. Third came Gaudreau and then Gus Nyquist. Laine had about the same scoring rate with all four, about 2.2-2.5 P/60.

McCann had the highest scoring rate for our team last year at 2.08 P/60.

How was Tanev this past season? Would the Kraken be interested in trading him? If so, what do you think the cost would be?

Tanev has lost most of his speed, I'd say he's more of a responsible character veteran at this point. Still a decent checking forward but nothing special without the wheels.

The most I could imagine the Kraken getting for him is a 3rd rounder at the deadline, and that's with retention. So maybe they'd cut the chase and take a pick like that now for him.

Opportunity cost is the issue here for me.

That 8.7M should be used to upgrade their #1 center, not spent on a redundant winger imo.

Who did you have in mind?
 
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Irie

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You can have a look at who Laine played with in 2021-22 and 2022-23 here, when he scored 108 pts in 111 games.

His most common linemate was Boone Jenner, and then Jack Roslovic. I'd take Bjorkstrand over both of them. Third came Gaudreau and then Gus Nyquist. Laine had about the same scoring rate with all four, about 2.2-2.5 P/60.

You can't post two years of icetime and present the data of his linemates as being his top linemates when two of his top linemates each only played for the team in one of the two years. Those stats are misleading.

Gaudreau was not there in 2021-22. Voracek was not there in 2022-23. Both of those guys are line drivers that create space and primarily played with Laine when they were in the lineup together.

Who did you have in mind?

I'm not looking for a absolute or permanent fix here. I am advocating overpaying in cap for a short term bandaid that provides more offense than Wennberg did. It shouldn't be too difficult. I'd watch the UFA market and take a shot or two there, but also closely follow the situation and see who maybe shakes free after some GM over spends on a shiny new piece in July, those situations are historically fluid. I think an overpaid upgrade should be obtainable without costing Francis too many premier assets.
 

majormajor

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You can't post two years of icetime and present the data of his linemates as being his top linemates when two of his top linemates each only played for the team in one of the two years. Those stats are misleading.

Gaudreau was not there in 2021-22. Voracek was not there in 2022-23. Both of those guys are line drivers that create space and primarily played with Laine when they were in the lineup together.

Ok I see what you mean.

FWIW, Laine scored just as well without Voracek or Gaudreau. You can see the scoring rates (P/60s) on that same stat page. Most Jackets fans will tell you his best fit linemates were Jenner and Nyquist. Jackets fans would get a laugh hearing concern about how he'd play without Gaudreau, who he didn't really fit with.
 
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Fistfullofbeer

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I would much rather see Francis overspend on a short term UFA center solution that is an overpay than bring in another winger making that kind of money.
This is easier said than done. And it's a hard spot for Francis to be in, though it is of his own making. I don't see any UFA center that would be good enough to make an impact or even be okay with a short-term contract.
I would probably try to move out Dumoulin and Tanev and use that cap with the space they currently have to overpay a playmaking top 6 center and a quality two way 4th line center on short term deals. It would create a much better balanced roster and would help insulate Wright which would be better for his development.
Moving Tanev and Dumo is both possible, though not easy because of the NTC's. I have said for a while that we have too many average top-9 forwards but not quite enough legit top-6 ones.

That is a product of the team trying to be competitive based on depth before having a core. Our re-signing of Eberle bothered me simply because he is another one of those depth players.

Burakovsky, Gourde, Schwartz, Eberle, and Tolvy are third-line players on a good team. A healthy Bura can work on the 2nd line, but none of the others. Wennberg was the exact same type of forward. I would take a chance on Laine over any of those forwards. But this is an issue given all of their NMC/NTC's. Tolvy is the easy one to move but he is really the worst option because he has been very effective for us.

McCann-Beniers-Bjorkstrand
Burakovsky-?-Laine (trade)
Tolvy-Wright-Eberle
Kartye-Winterton-Morrison

In my mind that is a semi-competitive lineup. But that means moving Gourde, Schwartz and Tanev.

Gourde: He is a good fit as 3C but is overpaid as such and I feel that is a spot to easy Wright into the NHL.

Tanev: At worst fits on the 4th line. He has regressed but still should be ok for the next 2 seasons, unless we can move him at the TDL (which should be possible).

Schwartz: Can't stay healthy and doesn't mesh with the team's style.

One thing that could help is signing Lindholm to a 1 or 2 year contract even if we overpay him a bit. Gives us better defense and also a chance to shelter Wright. But a lot of this is predicated on Francis actually being able to move out some redundant players.

All this being said, I don't see Francis making that many moves to overhaul the roster.
 

Irie

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Ok I see what you mean.

FWIW, Laine scored just as well without Voracek or Gaudreau. You can see the scoring rates (P/60s) on that same stat page. Most Jackets fans will tell you his best fit linemates were Jenner and Nyquist. Jackets fans would get a laugh hearing concern about how he'd play without Gaudreau, who he didn't really fit with.
I am absolutely positive that you have watched more Laine than I have the past few years, so maybe you see a fit there that I do not, but i do tune into Jets games often enough that I have a pretty good idea of the player he was with them (saw the Tkachuk/Selanne Jets live back in the day several times, such a fun team to watch with so much potential, and then with the trade and the move, I developed a soft spot for Winnipeg and I tend to watch them more than maybe some other teams when I have free time now).

This team needs center help in the worst way. They have wingers coming out of their ears, so I can't see a world where using 8.7M of the limited cap on another winger makes any sense.
McCann-Beniers-Bjorkstrand
Burakovsky-?-Laine (trade)
Tolvy-Wright-Eberle
Kartye-Winterton-Morrison

Assuming you don't want to play either of your top 6 centers 25+ minutes a night, who is going to take the defensive draws? Who's playing those tough minutes and not getting caved in? That lineup is a top 3 lottery pick lineup in my eyes. That bottom six is going to get wrecked night in and night out defensively.

If they can move Tanev and Dumoulin, and somehow turn one of their wingers into a 4th line shut-down center, I think they are a top 6 center (sign or trade) away from being a pretty well balanced team. Over pay a Monahan or Stephenson on a short term deal, or pull off a trade to a team that is in cap trouble for a Karlsson or Bennett as a short term fix, and Bob's your uncle ;)

I agree with you though, I am really hating that Eberle extension right now. Hands down Francis' worst move as the Kraken's GM so far imo.
 
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majormajor

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I am absolutely positive that you have watched more Laine than I have the past few years, so maybe you see a fit there that I do not, but i do tune into Jets games often enough that I have a pretty good idea of the player he was with them (saw the Tkachuk/Selanne Jets live back in the day several times, such a fun team to watch with so much potential, and then with the trade and the move, I developed a soft spot for Winnipeg and I tend to watch them more than maybe some other teams when I have free time now).

I watched the Jets as a second or third team for roughly their first decade back. That building isn't buzzing as much anymore but in the first decade it felt on the broadcast like an incredible atmosphere. And Buff is maybe my favorite player of all time.

I wasn't a fan of the idea of the Jackets taking on Laine, FWIW. I told everyone it would be bad. Some things I was right about but Laine grew out of a lot of issues he had with the Jets.

This team needs center help in the worst way. They have wingers coming out of their ears, so I can't see a world where using 8.7M of the limited cap on another winger makes any sense.

Long term, I don't think we have wingers coming out of our ears. We have an okay number of potential NHL wingers in the pool but none are blue chippers. The case for Laine is that he's still quite young and there's a chance he might fit well here and be a part of the next core. What other wingers are part of that next core?

Assuming you don't want to play either of your top 6 centers 25+ minutes a night, who is going to take the defensive draws?

This is my primary hole to take care of for next year. With Wennberg gone and Gourde probably gone soon, someone will have to be brought in to play tough defensive center minutes.
 

majormajor

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Who are our core players three years from now?

Even at the wing I'm unsure. Maybe Firkus or Rehkopf will be top six wingers. McCann I think might still be very good into his 30s and extend here. I suppose it's normal for most clubs to not have the future fully mapped out that far, but I'll resist the notion that we are full at any position long term. (this isn't directed at @Irie who was talking more about how full we are of wingers for next year).
 

Irie

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Who are our core players three years from now?

Even at the wing I'm unsure. Maybe Firkus or Rehkopf will be top six wingers. McCann I think might still be very good into his 30s and extend here. I suppose it's normal for most clubs to not have the future fully mapped out that far, but I'll resist the notion that we are full at any position long term. (this isn't directed at @Irie who was talking more about how full we are of wingers for next year).
Core should be a small amount of players you build around. Beniers is core for me now, Dunn may be. No one else on the current team really is IMO. Team rosters constantly evolve, and winning is viable if you have the right few pieces. The Blackhawks had maybe 6 guys that were on both cup teams in 2010 and 2015. The Penguins had 4 I think that were on both of their teams between 2009 and 2016.

Centers and #1 D are core. Wingers, unless they are HOF players will come and go.

This team has Eberle, Bjorkstrand, Tolvanen, Schwartz, Burakovsky and McCann all under contract or with team control through at least the end of Laine's deal.

With Laine's 8.7 in the mix, the team would have around 39 million tied up in their top 7 wingers, which is crazy, and none of which are elite. There wouldn't even be room for the talented prospects who should start to get some NHL experience in the next two seasons (and preferably not on the 4th line).

Laine is also a UFA in two years, so he is not a guaranteed part of the future either. The core will hopefully come from the young prospects that trickle in over the next few seasons. I would like to see them avoid blocking kids with a whole bunch of expensive wingers taking up all the rosters spots.
 

majormajor

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I'll preface these replies by saying that I'm still agnostic on Laine to the Kraken. I don't know.

I'm just commenting here on how we stack up in the short term and long term at wing, and whether the short term really matters that much in that analysis.

Core should be a small amount of players you build around. Beniers is core for me now, Dunn may be. No one else on the current team really is IMO. Team rosters constantly evolve, and winning is viable if you have the right few pieces. The Blackhawks had maybe 6 guys that were on both cup teams in 2010 and 2015. The Penguins had 4 I think that were on both of their teams between 2009 and 2016.

Centers and #1 D are core. Wingers, unless they are HOF players will come and go.

Personally I think it matters quite a lot whether you have wingers that are of the caliber of Bjorkstrand and McCann. It was easy for us to get those two players but I don't think that's generally the case. I'm remembering the Oilers when Kassian and Maroon were their best top six wingers. :laugh:

Bjorkstrand and McCann are not HOFers but if you have five of those guys then that helps bump your team up tremendously. I wish we had more. And neither of them are young. Having a point per game winger would be amazing as well, of course. I would argue for a more expansive definition of core.

This team has Eberle, Bjorkstrand, Tolvanen, Schwartz, Burakovsky and McCann all under contract or with team control through at least the end of Laine's deal.

With Laine's 8.7 in the mix, the team would have around 39 million tied up in their top 7 wingers, which is crazy, and none of which are elite. There wouldn't even be room for the talented prospects who should start to get some NHL experience in the next two seasons (and preferably not on the 4th line).

Laine is also a UFA in two years, so he is not a guaranteed part of the future either. The core will hopefully come from the young prospects that trickle in over the next few seasons. I would like to see them avoid blocking kids with a whole bunch of expensive wingers taking up all the rosters spots.

Schwartz and Burakovsky I'd expect to be injured for a lot of that. I mean that's the downside case for Laine too, isn't it?

In general I think players that are on the last year or two of their contracts are also very movable. McCann and Burakovsky are the only ones with deals longer than two years. So if we actually are jammed up at some point, I think it would be fixable.

I don't see any of our wing prospects being NHL ready for next year, for whatever that's worth.
 

Fuhrious

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Core should be a small amount of players you build around. Beniers is core for me now, Dunn may be. No one else on the current team really is IMO. Team rosters constantly evolve, and winning is viable if you have the right few pieces. The Blackhawks had maybe 6 guys that were on both cup teams in 2010 and 2015. The Penguins had 4 I think that were on both of their teams between 2009 and 2016.

Centers and #1 D are core. Wingers, unless they are HOF players will come and go.

This team has Eberle, Bjorkstrand, Tolvanen, Schwartz, Burakovsky and McCann all under contract or with team control through at least the end of Laine's deal.

With Laine's 8.7 in the mix, the team would have around 39 million tied up in their top 7 wingers, which is crazy, and none of which are elite. There wouldn't even be room for the talented prospects who should start to get some NHL experience in the next two seasons (and preferably not on the 4th line).

Laine is also a UFA in two years, so he is not a guaranteed part of the future either. The core will hopefully come from the young prospects that trickle in over the next few seasons. I would like to see them avoid blocking kids with a whole bunch of expensive wingers taking up all the rosters spots.
I’d probably add McCann to my core. Unfortunately I think Bura has played his way out of mine, at least presently. Not entirely sure how confident I am that he can get back to that level.
 
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kihei

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My core would be Beniers, Dunn, Larsson, McCann, Bjorkstrand, and holding a spot for Evans. League-wise, I'm guessing that would put is in the bottom fifth in the league, or so,. And the trouble is some of those teams at the bottom would already have elite pieces like Bedard, Carlsson, Fantilli, and Michkov in the mix. Let's hope Wright can be that sort of player for us or the road to being really competitive, a Stanley Cup contender eventually, is going to be that much more difficult.
 
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Fistfullofbeer

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My core would be Beniers, Dunn, Larsson, McCann, Bjorkstrand, and holding a spot for Evans. League-wise, I'm guessing that would put is in the bottom fifth in the league, or so,. And the trouble is some of those teams at the bottom would already have elite pieces like Bedard, Carlsson, Fantilli, and Michkov in the mix. Let's hope Wright can be that sort of player for us or the road to being really competitive, a Stanley Cup contender eventually, is going to be that much more difficult.
I think really highly of Larsson but he is 31 already. Bjorkstrand is 29. I don't know if they can be part of our "core". Agree about the others.

Need to get lucky with some of our other high risk (or late) picks turning into game changers. Dragicevic, Firkus, Rehkopf, Sale, our 1st round pick this year, someone else needs to hit it out of the park.
 

majormajor

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My core would be Beniers, Dunn, Larsson, McCann, Bjorkstrand, and holding a spot for Evans. League-wise, I'm guessing that would put is in the bottom fifth in the league, or so,. And the trouble is some of those teams at the bottom would already have elite pieces like Bedard, Carlsson, Fantilli, and Michkov in the mix. Let's hope Wright can be that sort of player for us or the road to being really competitive, a Stanley Cup contender eventually, is going to be that much more difficult.

I think really highly of Larsson but he is 31 already. Bjorkstrand is 29. I don't know if they can be part of our "core". Agree about the others.

Need to get lucky with some of our other high risk (or late) picks turning into game changers. Dragicevic, Firkus, Rehkopf, Sale, our 1st round pick this year, someone else needs to hit it out of the park.

I think there was a mix-up. Fuhrious has me blocked so they interpreted the question differently. We were originally talking about who is in the next core in a few years.

I definitely have Larsson, Bjorkstrand, and McCann in the current core. But next core? Maybe only McCann.

Beniers, Wright, Dunn, Evans, McCann, and hopefully Firkus and/or Rehkopf will come through.
 

kihei

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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
My error. Like your list. If he has another season like the last one, Daccord could count as core, too.
 

Dead Coyote

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I would worry about his production in Seattle for sure. I would not expect him to replicate earlier season numbers playing with the personnel the Kraken have.

He's put up close to PPG seasons playing with a younger Stastny, Voracek, and Gaudreau, but dropped to a 50pt player playing with Bryan little.

Put him on a line with Wright and Bjorkstrand and 50-55 points is about what I would expect. Useful for sure, but not worth 8.7M.

I just don't think the Kraken have the center to play with him that can extract the full potential value of that contract.
It is completely a good point of comparison - and one brought up on multiple media outlets as a possible. They are two mostly offensive players who can be defensive black holes… Except skinner has actually performed better recently than laine has. Go look at the last 3 years ….and who score 82 points the years before last. Skinner “ stunk” last year and many believe was playing injured and still put up 46 pt.

TBH - and many if not most Sabres fans feel this way… I don’t think I would trade Skinner straight up for laine. Skinner will do fine next year under ruff and laine has the potential to crater even more. The Sabres just want that 9 mil in space bc they have too many scoring forwards that are the same and we need to get a different type of player. Getting another $8 million player doesn’t solve that… This is all to be said that his value is not very much in a trade at all.

And to your 1st point on Reinhart etc…zero people are going to think laine contract looks better. He’s been a 50 ish point player recently - can buy that for a winger on the free agent market for way less than $8 million. Nothing is making that contract look better… I just don’t follow the logic there. If Austin matthews was a free agent and got $13 million a year, I feel better about Jeff Skinner getting 9 million because that’s a lot of money? Don’t think so… Same thing when 57 goals score hits the market. No one’s going to start thinking an $8 million overpaid player is a good deal because the other one wants 9 or 10

I really heavily disagree with this. Skinner has never really put in the effort on defense that Laine has. Skinner is a player who has played nearly the same way his whole career and when he was called to change those habits put in a half effort and also sucked donkey doo-doo because so much of his game relies on cheating defensively and taking advantage of having great playmakers on his line. His bread and butter is scoring on odd man rushes or on the wing on the PP. He's deadly in close and a great finisher, and he can sometimes drive play for himself through his stickhandling, but he mostly is pretty selfish and uses his teammates just as moving pylons he can give and go with. He always wants the puck. His stickhandling is a lot better than Laine's and his goal scoring talent is definitely similar but he's a complimentary player. He NEEDS to have players who can find him when he's open. And honestly if he actually put effort into defense he would probably be fine too because guess what, playing defense and having good positioning and being engaged often leads to odd man rushes which, as mentioned, he's really good at.

The problem is that he doesn't do the things that he needs to in order to succeed when he isn't being put with those players, he isn't engaged, He hangs out on the offensive blue line and waits for someone to get him the puck. And you know, for the most part, that works, he puts up goals and points doing it. But he's still a defensive liability because he isn't McDavid and even McDavid sometimes loses the puck and creates an odd man rush going the other way.

Laine is a different player. His goal scoring is similar in that he's also deadly in close and if you put him with playmakers who can find him when he's open he has a deadly release. His stick handling is nowhere close to Skinner's and he also has the tendency to hold onto the puck too much and try and stickhandle through guys like Skinner does, and it works out about as well for him.

The difference is that Laine is way bigger than Skinner and has a way bigger reach, so he's naturally better at protecting the puck. He hasn't really figured out that his reach means he can often drive the wall and protect the puck but he has figured out that his positioning in the defensive zone can help him score goals at the other end.

His positioning is great for a forward and he's willing to cover the D on the point and allow them to pinch or drive the net. The other main difference is that Laine is engaged defensively and offensively, he hustles and while his forecheck isn't good he can still win puck battles on the wall and a lot of his defensive flaws are prevented because of his solid positioning.

And kind of the nail in the coffin is that Laine isn't really a selfish player. He's a very good playmaker as well, look at how him and Gaudreau set up on the powerplay. He's adept at weaving passes through guys and putting pucks on tape. He's still very much a shoot first guy, but unlike Skinner he has the IQ that most of his passes aren't going wide, the number of drop passes to nowhere or random passes behind the net Skinner does drives me crazy.

But probably the most important difference is that Laine has changed as a player and improved, is 26 and clearly gives a f*** about his performance. I mean he put himself in the PAP despite it costing him tons of money. Skinner is 32 and is pretty much the same player he was in Junior. I watched a lot of him then. The fact that Laine is 6 years younger, has a slightly better contract, and has proven to be way more coachable means a lot. I don't think it's a great comparison because of those things. If you want a Skinner you can go find one in FA pretty easily. I think that Hoffman guy might still be around.

If you want a Laine...well, 26yo guys who have his resume generally aren't available. Laine is because he has an injury history and other stuff going on that lowers his value, but I still don't think Columbus is necessarily going to give him up.

And calling him a 50 pt forward is disingenuous when he's played 50 games the last two seasons before this one. I think @majormajor already mentioned this as well but he was way more productive with Roslovic and Jenner than Gaudreau or Voracek. He plays best with guys who can take care of the forechecking duties and cycle well, create opportunities off defensive plays, and get him the puck. They don't have to be world class playmakers, he can score from anywhere. He's also already played with Bjorkstrand and looked perfectly fine playing with him. I won't pretend to know everything about Seattle's roster but they have a lot of guys good at that coming up and probably a decent amount already on the roster...and those guys aren't exactly hard to find.

I think really highly of Larsson but he is 31 already. Bjorkstrand is 29. I don't know if they can be part of our "core". Agree about the others.

Need to get lucky with some of our other high risk (or late) picks turning into game changers. Dragicevic, Firkus, Rehkopf, Sale, our 1st round pick this year, someone else needs to hit it out of the park.
I think Wright and Beniers will hit it out of the park within 1-2 years. The great thing about Seattle's drafting has been that if they hit on even 10% of the players they've drafted they're going to get a super successful player with high upside. They've pretty much gone all in on drafting huge upside guys and hoping they can work on whatever flaws they have. I like that a lot, and I think they're gonna end up hitting on more than one too.
 

majormajor

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Jun 23, 2018
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Is Friedman still a reliable source? Him mentioning us makes me think we are out of it .. LOL

All he's saying is that people have speculated Seattle for Laine.

There's no information connecting Seattle to Laine. It's probably just folks speculating on the fit given the cap space, age of the player, etc... Probably the same stuff we're talking about.
 
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KrakenSabresMike

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Oct 7, 2020
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I really heavily disagree with this. Skinner has never really put in the effort on defense that Laine has. Skinner is a player who has played nearly the same way his whole career and when he was called to change those habits put in a half effort and also sucked donkey doo-doo because so much of his game relies on cheating defensively and taking advantage of having great playmakers on his line. His bread and butter is scoring on odd man rushes or on the wing on the PP. He's deadly in close and a great finisher, and he can sometimes drive play for himself through his stickhandling, but he mostly is pretty selfish and uses his teammates just as moving pylons he can give and go with. He always wants the puck. His stickhandling is a lot better than Laine's and his goal scoring talent is definitely similar but he's a complimentary player. He NEEDS to have players who can find him when he's open. And honestly if he actually put effort into defense he would probably be fine too because guess what, playing defense and having good positioning and being engaged often leads to odd man rushes which, as mentioned, he's really good at.

The problem is that he doesn't do the things that he needs to in order to succeed when he isn't being put with those players, he isn't engaged, He hangs out on the offensive blue line and waits for someone to get him the puck. And you know, for the most part, that works, he puts up goals and points doing it. But he's still a defensive liability because he isn't McDavid and even McDavid sometimes loses the puck and creates an odd man rush going the other way.

Laine is a different player. His goal scoring is similar in that he's also deadly in close and if you put him with playmakers who can find him when he's open he has a deadly release. His stick handling is nowhere close to Skinner's and he also has the tendency to hold onto the puck too much and try and stickhandle through guys like Skinner does, and it works out about as well for him.

The difference is that Laine is way bigger than Skinner and has a way bigger reach, so he's naturally better at protecting the puck. He hasn't really figured out that his reach means he can often drive the wall and protect the puck but he has figured out that his positioning in the defensive zone can help him score goals at the other end.

His positioning is great for a forward and he's willing to cover the D on the point and allow them to pinch or drive the net. The other main difference is that Laine is engaged defensively and offensively, he hustles and while his forecheck isn't good he can still win puck battles on the wall and a lot of his defensive flaws are prevented because of his solid positioning.

And kind of the nail in the coffin is that Laine isn't really a selfish player. He's a very good playmaker as well, look at how him and Gaudreau set up on the powerplay. He's adept at weaving passes through guys and putting pucks on tape. He's still very much a shoot first guy, but unlike Skinner he has the IQ that most of his passes aren't going wide, the number of drop passes to nowhere or random passes behind the net Skinner does drives me crazy.

But probably the most important difference is that Laine has changed as a player and improved, is 26 and clearly gives a f*** about his performance. I mean he put himself in the PAP despite it costing him tons of money. Skinner is 32 and is pretty much the same player he was in Junior. I watched a lot of him then. The fact that Laine is 6 years younger, has a slightly better contract, and has proven to be way more coachable means a lot. I don't think it's a great comparison because of those things. If you want a Skinner you can go find one in FA pretty easily. I think that Hoffman guy might still be around.

If you want a Laine...well, 26yo guys who have his resume generally aren't available. Laine is because he has an injury history and other stuff going on that lowers his value, but I still don't think Columbus is necessarily going to give him up.

And calling him a 50 pt forward is disingenuous when he's played 50 games the last two seasons before this one. I think @majormajor already mentioned this as well but he was way more productive with Roslovic and Jenner than Gaudreau or Voracek. He plays best with guys who can take care of the forechecking duties and cycle well, create opportunities off defensive plays, and get him the puck. They don't have to be world class playmakers, he can score from anywhere. He's also already played with Bjorkstrand and looked perfectly fine playing with him. I won't pretend to know everything about Seattle's roster but they have a lot of guys good at that coming up and probably a decent amount already on the roster...and those guys aren't exactly hard to find.


I think Wright and Beniers will hit it out of the park within 1-2 years. The great thing about Seattle's drafting has been that if they hit on even 10% of the players they've drafted they're going to get a super successful player with high upside. They've pretty much gone all in on drafting huge upside guys and hoping they can work on whatever flaws they have. I like that a lot, and I think they're gonna end up hitting on more than one too.
You make some fair points but for context my ENTIRE point was that Laine does not fetch much trade value bc of his salary and performance below his previous level. Go listen or look at any insider discussion on this and they say a trade will be tough bc that contract carries close to a negative value.

The initial point I responded to is that Laine will be seen as much more valuable after other free agents who are high end ask for 9/10 mil and that he will fetch a major trade price - which is just false based on any analysis or info out there.
Thus, the most likely scenario here is a bad contract for the same. Let’s see what happens and whose take is closer to reality, and the reality is Buffalo is not trading for an 8 mil Laine anyways…nor should the kraken.

They should not want to add him as an 9 mil player - they could get a very good 2c and another good piece with that much cap. Only a top 10 legit winger should be getting that much ( which Laine currently is not). Now if cbj retains half we can start talking …but still is that the player we should be investing in? They need a truly elite player or 2…and winger is the least valued/easiest to acquire position
 
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