Kitchener Rangers 2022-23 Season Thread

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aresknights

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Big addition n glad it happened (as a Habs fan lol)
Kid has skills. If he comes in with a good attitude he will be among top players in the OHL, easy.
Rough start n I thought Ktown would be in the top few teams in the West......maybe this is the spark?
 

RichieRice

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Jan 8, 2018
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Big addition n glad it happened (as a Habs fan lol)
Kid has skills. If he comes in with a good attitude he will be among top players in the OHL, easy.
Rough start n I thought Ktown would be in the top few teams in the West......maybe this is the spark?
The coach's post-game comments were interesting. Think he's trying to get the players to play a more conservative system and some forwards (our overages?) aren't buying in.
 

Tim Wallach

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There are a litany of problems with this team, starting with how poorly it’s built. The redundancy of style of player in the lineup is crazy. In terms of what they bring to the table, is there really any difference between most of our forwards? They’re not particularly physical, fast, hard shooting or deft passers. They even seem to have similar personalities.

A well constructed team secures their electric players high in the draft or via recruitment and then adds elements to complement them, such as physical players, board strength, high IQ PK guys, etc. They don’t keep adding homogeneity to the lineup and throwing the exact same look at the opponent shift after shift. So that’s on McKenzie and the scouts.

For the on ice product, I’ve been most disappointed in the fact we brought in a former video coach who doesn’t appear to be identifying obvious flaws in execution. For one, a player like Martin should be your net presence consistently, occupying their D, creating space for slick operators and banging in rebounds. Why on God’s green earth is he the puck carrier most of the time, swinging to the periphery and playing away from his strengths? Another example is last night when the puck carrier entered the offensive zone on the left periphery and Pinelli swung in behind him for a drop pass. That’s simple to fix with video. Making yourself available for the drop is a fine attack plan in the middle of the ice. Doing it along the wall results in no positional gain and allows the opposing defenders to easily contain the attack. This team needs far more center lane driving if they’re going to get anywhere.

With that, comes stopping on the net. They rarely ever do, always content to fade off to the periphery. Again, this is simple video work. That’s the most disappointing part for me. And don’t even get me started on the soft, scrambly D zone coverage. Unless they get a whole lot more aggressive, committed and meaner, it’s going to be a field day for the opponents.

Mesar will help because he’s fast and skilled, which are two components this team sadly lacks. Especially speed, which our scouts clearly haven’t prioritized. And before anyone tries to suggest we have lots of skill, just watch the passing game both giving and receiving and tell me if this is adequate skill level for the OHL.

Anyway, end rant, but needless to say, the whole group needs a massive wake up!
 

rangersblues

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There are a litany of problems with this team, starting with how poorly it’s built. The redundancy of style of player in the lineup is crazy. In terms of what they bring to the table, is there really any difference between most of our forwards? They’re not particularly physical, fast, hard shooting or deft passers. They even seem to have similar personalities.

A well constructed team secures their electric players high in the draft or via recruitment and then adds elements to complement them, such as physical players, board strength, high IQ PK guys, etc. They don’t keep adding homogeneity to the lineup and throwing the exact same look at the opponent shift after shift. So that’s on McKenzie and the scouts.

For the on ice product, I’ve been most disappointed in the fact we brought in a former video coach who doesn’t appear to be identifying obvious flaws in execution. For one, a player like Martin should be your net presence consistently, occupying their D, creating space for slick operators and banging in rebounds. Why on God’s green earth is he the puck carrier most of the time, swinging to the periphery and playing away from his strengths? Another example is last night when the puck carrier entered the offensive zone on the left periphery and Pinelli swung in behind him for a drop pass. That’s simple to fix with video. Making yourself available for the drop is a fine attack plan in the middle of the ice. Doing it along the wall results in no positional gain and allows the opposing defenders to easily contain the attack. This team needs far more center lane driving if they’re going to get anywhere.

With that, comes stopping on the net. They rarely ever do, always content to fade off to the periphery. Again, this is simple video work. That’s the most disappointing part for me. And don’t even get me started on the soft, scrambly D zone coverage. Unless they get a whole lot more aggressive, committed and meaner, it’s going to be a field day for the opponents.

Mesar will help because he’s fast and skilled, which are two components this team sadly lacks. Especially speed, which our scouts clearly haven’t prioritized. And before anyone tries to suggest we have lots of skill, just watch the passing game both giving and receiving and tell me if this is adequate skill level for the OHL.

Anyway, end rant, but needless to say, the whole group needs a massive wake up!
I wish I could give this post multiple likes. It hit the nail on the head in every aspect. I believe Even Steven talked about the makeup of the team in earlier posts as well.

Also for the person that is holding out hope that Guelph started slowly in 2019 and turned it around and won the Memorial Cup. Indeed they did. But to begin with they had a huge top line of Schnarr, Ratcliffe and Hawel that pounded teams into submission on their way to filling the net. They then traded away 19 draft picks plus players to supplement it with Suzuki, Commisso, Entwistle, Durzi, Phillips. So yes - it can happen but it's lightening in a bottle.

Canadiens prospect Nick Suzuki traded from Attack to Storm in OHL - Sportsnet.ca
 
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Tim Wallach

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I wish I could give this post multiple likes. It hit the nail on the head in every aspect. I believe Even Steven talked about the makeup of the team in earlier posts as well.

Also for the person that is holding out hope that Guelph started slowly in 2019 and turned it around and won the Memorial Cup. Indeed they did. But to begin with they had a huge top line of Schnarr, Ratcliffe and Hawel that pounded teams into submission on their way to filling the net. They then traded away 19 draft picks plus players to supplement it with Suzuki, Commisso, Entwistle, Durzi, Phillips. So yes - it can happen but it's lightening in a bottle.

Canadiens prospect Nick Suzuki traded from Attack to Storm in OHL - Sportsnet.ca


Thanks rangersblues. Glad to hear we’re seeing the same things. At times I struggle with why they don’t see it.
 

bobber

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Jan 21, 2013
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Thanks rangersblues. Glad to hear we’re seeing the same things. At times I struggle with why they don’t see it.
Spot started picking safe picks and it seems to have continued right up to the present. The physical element isn't there. I can only recall one hit late in the 3rd when Pinelli hit the Attack captain. Teams coming into the Aud do not have to worry about being knocked around. It would be nice to see a couple of gritty type players on this squad. Gets the fans into the game. I have never been enamored with Ranger scouting for years. I find Guelph and Owen Sound seem to pick more solid OHL type players. Just my humble opinion.
 

rangersblues

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Spot started picking safe picks and it seems to have continued right up to the present. The physical element isn't there. I can only recall one hit late in the 3rd when Pinelli hit the Attack captain. Teams coming into the Aud do not have to worry about being knocked around. It would be nice to see a couple of gritty type players on this squad. Gets the fans into the game. I have never been enamored with Ranger scouting for years. I find Guelph and Owen Sound seem to pick more solid OHL type players. Just my humble opinion.
They have tried the bigger more physical player route for a while. Drafted Pedersen and Schmaltz and it failed miserably.

No matter who we draft we can't seem to get them to take that next step to becoming dynamic players in their 3rd and 4th seasons. It's early but Pinelli and Sop lead with 5 points then the next best forwards only have 3 points. Meanwhile Pinelli's 2nd year brother has 9 points already in Ottawa for example. We very seldom seem to get that breakout season for whatever reason.
 
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Mar 12, 2009
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There are a litany of problems with this team, starting with how poorly it’s built. The redundancy of style of player in the lineup is crazy. In terms of what they bring to the table, is there really any difference between most of our forwards? They’re not particularly physical, fast, hard shooting or deft passers. They even seem to have similar personalities.

A well constructed team secures their electric players high in the draft or via recruitment and then adds elements to complement them, such as physical players, board strength, high IQ PK guys, etc. They don’t keep adding homogeneity to the lineup and throwing the exact same look at the opponent shift after shift. So that’s on McKenzie and the scouts.

For the on ice product, I’ve been most disappointed in the fact we brought in a former video coach who doesn’t appear to be identifying obvious flaws in execution. For one, a player like Martin should be your net presence consistently, occupying their D, creating space for slick operators and banging in rebounds. Why on God’s green earth is he the puck carrier most of the time, swinging to the periphery and playing away from his strengths? Another example is last night when the puck carrier entered the offensive zone on the left periphery and Pinelli swung in behind him for a drop pass. That’s simple to fix with video. Making yourself available for the drop is a fine attack plan in the middle of the ice. Doing it along the wall results in no positional gain and allows the opposing defenders to easily contain the attack. This team needs far more center lane driving if they’re going to get anywhere.

With that, comes stopping on the net. They rarely ever do, always content to fade off to the periphery. Again, this is simple video work. That’s the most disappointing part for me. And don’t even get me started on the soft, scrambly D zone coverage. Unless they get a whole lot more aggressive, committed and meaner, it’s going to be a field day for the opponents.

Mesar will help because he’s fast and skilled, which are two components this team sadly lacks. Especially speed, which our scouts clearly haven’t prioritized. And before anyone tries to suggest we have lots of skill, just watch the passing game both giving and receiving and tell me if this is adequate skill level for the OHL.

Anyway, end rant, but needless to say, the whole group needs a massive wake up!
I've been harping on the play style redundancy in different terms for a while; and also the fact that we have a few players who have the tools to play a certain style (that we could really use) but continue to want to be something they've demonstrated they aren't (a couple guys who think they are offense first D who should be Defense first types, and a couple of forwards who think they are primarily offensive guys who need to be committed and engaged two-ways to be effective).

The second bolded is a good point that I actually see at both ends. We just rarely have a forward in front of their net and our D never seem to stop at the goal line to have a look and make sure 1 of them is covering our net front area. They're always getting caught 2 D behind the goal line, open slot or open side completely undefended.
 
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I wish I could give this post multiple likes. It hit the nail on the head in every aspect. I believe Even Steven talked about the makeup of the team in earlier posts as well.

Also for the person that is holding out hope that Guelph started slowly in 2019 and turned it around and won the Memorial Cup. Indeed they did. But to begin with they had a huge top line of Schnarr, Ratcliffe and Hawel that pounded teams into submission on their way to filling the net. They then traded away 19 draft picks plus players to supplement it with Suzuki, Commisso, Entwistle, Durzi, Phillips. So yes - it can happen but it's lightening in a bottle.

Canadiens prospect Nick Suzuki traded from Attack to Storm in OHL - Sportsnet.ca
They didn't pound teams into submission early on and they "financed" some of those picks trading Merkley...was Hawel a completely different player in Guelph than Kitchener? A big gripe with him was he was a giant who played like a slim skill guy.

My main point was maybe 5 games isn't yet the time to throw in the towel as a fan, although I have tuned out when it get's boring, something I think others should really try when hope is lost for a game, or season (all you can do is vote with your wallet, sadly)... but take away what you will lol.
 
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They have tried the bigger more physical player route for a while. Drafted Pedersen and Schmaltz and it failed miserably.

No matter who we draft we can't seem to get them to take that next step to becoming dynamic players in their 3rd and 4th seasons. It's early but Pinelli and Sop lead with 5 points then the next best forwards only have 3 points. Meanwhile Pinelli's 2nd year brother has 9 points already in Ottawa for example. We very seldom seem to get that breakout season for whatever reason.
I think he got the C a year too early. Not sure if he's suffering the post-NHL camp blues or whatever that some guys coming back do when they have bad early returns, but I'm not seeing any improvement so far.
 

GeoBlue

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A lot of great observations and yes, I cannot figure out why team Management does not see these things. I agree that there are problems that have developed during the long term past but the change from last year to this year is baffling. It looks like Jay McKee hockey all over again. (I'm not counting last year. He was given a winner on a silver plate.) So let me break things down logically......

Last year, there was always a chance that the Rangers could muster up some momentum to make it a game. This year, it looks chaotic. What has changed?

Ok, we lost Cajun, who I thought was probably the best goalie in the league imo. He singled handedly won many games for us. I was just as confident in Parsons but he seems to have take a step back. Exit Vandenberg, enter Constantini and it seems like that problem solved. Time will tell.

The least impact departure imo was Nolet. Not because he wasn't good but because we seem to have an abundant supply of D that probably improves the backend over last year.

We lost Mutter. Not losing a whole lot of skill there but as mentioned in other posts, we sure do miss his grit. It sure kept other teams honest when they went in front of our net or even when they skated along the boards.

Then there is Petizian and more and more I am thinking that he made a bigger impact than I realized last year. I suppose you could call him the complete, little package as he could skate, fore check, score and had a good dose of agitation in him.

So it seems like we need to replace Petizian and Mutter while the returning players improve? It doesn't seem to be a tall order but 5 games in and we are failing miserably. I agree in that Serpa and Valade are in no way "elite" OA's so we should stop thinking of them that way. Pinelli has let me down and even Martin seems to be struggling. Seriously, up front I would put Sop, Rehkopf and Zidlicky as our number one line based on our play thus far. And I don't feel Mesar is going to be the answer.

So now we factor in the new coach. How long does it take to implement a new system? And is it the right system? I hear lots on how hard this team plays in practice but it is not translating into the game situation as I am reminded each time I see a broken or disjointed play. Are some players refusing to buy in as someone on the boards hinted earlier?

And something has to give. I look at this year as a sort of "make or break" for the organization. We finally have some US and Imports choosing to come to Kitchener and I feel it is this year that we need to show them that we have staff and coaching to take these players to higher levels. Seriously, if Mesar has been watching this 0-5 team, he might be thinking that he will definitely get the ice time he is looking for. But looking at the individual talent on the team, He should be very concerned about his development. I liked Dennis when I read up on his credentials but if his system does not work by years end, we can count his hiring as being a big fail. To be fair, he needs to be given some leeway as to who his Assistance are, and we could very well see some changes in this area, but the organization needs to step up this year. "I want to play for the Knights, but wait? Those Rangers are doing something right?" That is what we need to hear from our future prospects.
 
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A lot of great observations and yes, I cannot figure out why team Management does not see these things. I agree that there are problems that have developed during the long term past but the change from last year to this year is baffling. It looks like Jay McKee hockey all over again. (I'm not counting last year. He was given a winner on a silver plate.) So let me break things down logically......
Jay McKee hockey looked different in Hamilton as well.
 

EvenSteven

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Sep 3, 2009
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I think he got the C a year too early. Not sure if he's suffering the post-NHL camp blues or whatever that some guys coming back do when they have bad early returns, but I'm not seeing any improvement so far.
I agree about the C. Petizian was easily the heart and soul of this team last year. And Xhekaj up until he was traded.

Of course, we’re not in the room. But I didn’t understand how or what Pinelli did to earn the C to begin with.
 
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They have tried the bigger more physical player route for a while. Drafted Pedersen and Schmaltz and it failed miserably.

No matter who we draft we can't seem to get them to take that next step to becoming dynamic players in their 3rd and 4th seasons. It's early but Pinelli and Sop lead with 5 points then the next best forwards only have 3 points. Meanwhile Pinelli's 2nd year brother has 9 points already in Ottawa for example. We very seldom seem to get that breakout season for whatever reason.
My money has been on player development for a while. We've had different scouting strategies and different coaches, and different GMs (MM being arguably quite solid) but outside of a couple exceptions, have had the same type of disappointing problems time and time again starting in the Spott era.

It just worse and more glaring because of how much talent we have in theory...Brzustewicz is a talented player and probably the only one I haven't been flat out disapointed with. Pinelli, Schmidt, Valade, Hamara, Motew, Martin are playing significantly below the way they should be able to play in theory.
 
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rangersblues

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I think he got the C a year too early. Not sure if he's suffering the post-NHL camp blues or whatever that some guys coming back do when they have bad early returns, but I'm not seeing any improvement so far.
Pinelli has looked dangerous at times just not on a consistent basis. Biggest problem IMO is lack of high end talent to work with.
 
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Gondrex

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Quick question.

Mercer hasn’t played a game yet. What’s his status? Injured?
From Josh Brown's latest article.....

......."Only one of the team’s first two picks in the past three drafts in currently on the ice (Rehkopf). Cam Mercer is with the team but hurt. And they do get this year’s first round pick back next year. Still, this is a team that has 18 people listed on its analytics staff. And that’s not including the GM, his assistant or any scouts. I mean, do some OHL teams even have 18 total staff members? "........

I wanted to include the whole paragraph because I thought it was puzzling (shocking ?) to read the part about the team's "excess" who are all apparently working behind the scenes.
 

bobber

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They have tried the bigger more physical player route for a while. Drafted Pedersen and Schmaltz and it failed miserably.

No matter who we draft we can't seem to get them to take that next step to becoming dynamic players in their 3rd and 4th seasons. It's early but Pinelli and Sop lead with 5 points then the next best forwards only have 3 points. Meanwhile Pinelli's 2nd year brother has 9 points already in Ottawa for example. We very seldom seem to get that breakout season for whatever reason.
Blues , one reason they failed with Pederson and Schmaltz was exactly what I pointed out about Spot. Taking 2nd and 3rd round players in the 1st round hoping they stick for 4 years. Surprisingly they turned out to be exactly that and he passed on decent OHL first rounders. Not saying we need a bunch of big goons. Just a mix of players with physicality added to the recipe.
 
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From Josh Brown's latest article.....

......."Only one of the team’s first two picks in the past three drafts in currently on the ice (Rehkopf). Cam Mercer is with the team but hurt. And they do get this year’s first round pick back next year. Still, this is a team that has 18 people listed on its analytics staff. And that’s not including the GM, his assistant or any scouts. I mean, do some OHL teams even have 18 total staff members? "........

I wanted to include the whole paragraph because I thought it was puzzling (shocking ?) to read the part about the team's "excess" who are all apparently working behind the scenes.
Too many cooks in the kitchen? Too many guys hitching a free ride? Doesn't make sense to have among the "best" (in reality just translate to among the most resources) staff capabilities in the league, but failing to get the most out of your players, and in fact somehow getting less-than from them consistently.
 
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Blues , one reason they failed with Pederson and Schmaltz was exactly what I pointed out about Spot. Taking 2nd and 3rd round players in the 1st round hoping they stick for 4 years. Surprisingly they turned out to be exactly that and he passed on decent OHL first rounders. Not saying we need a bunch of big goons. Just a mix of players with physicality added to the recipe.
I think their point is people seem to say "we need X not Y" then when we draft more Y and it doesn't work they say "we need more Y, not X". The fact is, with one or two years of exception, we've had similarly disappointing results and on ice play and product regardless of the scouting/drafting philosophy.
I remember having this same conversation a few years ago and I looked at 1st round bigger players, and a surprising number ended up having disappointing OHL careers, or didn't break out until their final and/or OA seasons.

To have as many guys on staff as we do, and for our player development to be what it is comparatively makes little sense.

Spott instituted a "gentleman" on ice product where we would win with skill and beat them on the power play instead of with rough stuff and that philosophy seems to linger regardless of type of player, coach or GM.
 
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rangersblues

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I think their point is people seem to say "we need X not Y" then when we draft more Y and it doesn't work they say "we need more Y, not X". The fact is, with one or two years of exception, we've had similarly disappointing results and on ice play and product regardless of the scouting/drafting philosophy.
I remember having this same conversation a few years ago and I looked at 1st round bigger players, and a surprising number ended up having disappointing OHL careers, or didn't break out until their final and/or OA seasons.

To have as many guys on staff as we do, and for our player development to be what it is comparatively makes little sense.

Spott instituted a "gentleman" on ice product where we would win with skill and beat them on the power play instead of with rough stuff and that philosophy seems to linger regardless of type of player, coach or GM.
Part of the reason the philosophy lingers is we so seldom go outside the organization to find new coaches/GMs.
 
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Part of the reason the philosophy lingers is we so seldom go outside the organization to find new coaches/GMs.
Eh this is the narrative from 4 years or so ago that doesn't hold. We did that with MM on GM which has been ok, we did that with Jay McKee which was a mixed bag, we did that with Chris Dennis and so far that's been a disaster.

Where you're theory holds more true IMO, look to the bloated analytics staff and the scouting staff that features several guys from 2004 or before, and a nepotism hire of a 18/19 year old scouts son who you then promote to Head Scout...and I may be mistaken but I don't think Dennis got to pick his assistant(s), he inherited Widemen et al?
 
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rangersblues

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Eh this is the narrative from 4 years or so ago that doesn't hold. We did that with MM on GM which has been ok, we did that with Jay McKee which was a mixed bag, we did that with Chris Dennis and so far that's been a disaster.

Where you're theory holds more true IMO, look to the bloated analytics staff and the scouting staff that features several guys from 2004 or before, and a nepotism hire of a 18/19 year old scouts son who you then promote to Head Scout...and I may be mistaken but I don't think Dennis got to pick his assistant(s), he inherited Widemen et al?
I'm unsure what you're saying. MM is a promotion from within. He seems to have maintained the same philosophy.

You're correct about the bloated staff, particularly analytics. It seems that is the focus. How about just getting back to the fundamentals and player skills development and teaching the game?
 

bobber

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From Josh Brown's latest article.....

......."Only one of the team’s first two picks in the past three drafts in currently on the ice (Rehkopf). Cam Mercer is with the team but hurt. And they do get this year’s first round pick back next year. Still, this is a team that has 18 people listed on its analytics staff. And that’s not including the GM, his assistant or any scouts. I mean, do some OHL teams even have 18 total staff members? "........

I wanted to include the whole paragraph because I thought it was puzzling (sget hocking ?) to read the part about the team's "excess" who are all apparently working behind the scenes.
Plus, the directors. I worked with a couple of unnamed directors. They were not in it for the sake of the organization.
 
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bobber

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I think their point is people seem to say "we need X not Y" then when we draft more Y and it doesn't work they say "we need more Y, not X". The fact is, with one or two years of exception, we've had similarly disappointing results and on ice play and product regardless of the scouting/drafting philosophy.
I remember having this same conversation a few years ago and I looked at 1st round bigger players, and a surprising number ended up having disappointing OHL careers, or didn't break out until their final and/or OA seasons.

To have as many guys on staff as we do, and for our player development to be what it is comparatively makes little sense.

Spott instituted a "gentleman" on ice product where we would win with skill and beat them on the power play instead of with rough stuff and that philosophy seems to linger regardless of type of player, coach or GM.
If there is really such a thing as building through the draft a GM better make sure he doesn't screw up on both his first and 2nd draft picks. I believe the GM has the final say in the first pick. These are the usually the top players in the draft. Spot did this more than once and the powers that be recently have done this also. Either underachieving picks or no shows. It effects the success of the team going forward. In saying this it's still a crap shoot when trying to judge whether a young 15–16-year-old player will pan out three years later. Two of the Rangers biggest successes recently were undrafted Yantis and Jack Eye(sp).
 
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