Kitchener Rangers 2022-23 Off-Season Thread (Part 5)

[MatthewsMoustache]

What we have to remember is that like the players, a lot of coaches use junior hockey as a stepping stone to the pros. If we’re constantly losing coaches that way, in theory that should mean they were at least somewhat good coaches.

Great coaches who want to stay at the OHL level are far and few between. Especially when you have a community owned team and no real possibility for a Hunter-type to come in and fully run the show themselves.

 

[Tim Wallach]

And I wouldn’t put too much stock in what McKenzie said previously. Those are pretty generic statements about an OHL coaching search.

 

[bobber]

What we have to remember is that like the players, a lot of coaches use junior hockey as a stepping stone to the pros. If we’re constantly losing coaches that way, in theory that should mean they were at least somewhat good coaches.

Great coaches who want to stay at the OHL level are far and few between. Especially when you have a community owned team and no real possibility for a Hunter-type to come in and fully run the show themselves.

McKee didn't turn out too bad and he is still hanging around somewhere. MM has visions of the Mem Cup host down the road. Hope he brings in the right person. The coach mentioned is not an experienced OHL coach and would be stepping up to this league. Not sure of the difference but is it comparable to Jr. B?

 

[Kingpin794]

McKee didn't turn out too bad and he is still hanging around somewhere. MM has visions of the Mem Cup host down the road. Hope he brings in the right person. The coach mentioned is not an experienced OHL coach and would be stepping up to this league. Not sure of the difference but is it comparable to Jr. B?

Better than junior b. But there’s definitely a stratification to the league. You have a few teams that are usually great and then the rest are pretty meh. I’d say it’s closer to BCHL. Better than most junior A leagues but still not CHL level overall.

 

[GeoBlue]

Just a note for those wondering why he’d jump ship after a year. The CHL is still considered an upgrade on the USHL for now and the average estimated pay for a head coach is approximately 25-40% higher in the CHL. Add in that Kitchener is a prominent market, making both the pay and prestige factor even higher and you have your answer.

The point of my post was that some have a tendency to use employers as "stepping stones". So maybe a year in Kitchener and then off to the NHL if the opportunity presents itself? I suppose fresh in my mind are some of these politicians that recently got elected and are now already seeking seats at the next level without even doing anything significant at their current jobs. This is just "self seeking" and does not do much for the "culture" either.

Hey, I see why someone would want to leave an employer for a better opportunity. It would be nice to see someone new come on board and actually have a Memorial Cup on his (or her) resume before moving on.

 

[rangersblues]

The point of my post was that some have a tendency to use employers as "stepping stones". So maybe a year in Kitchener and then off to the NHL if the opportunity presents itself? I suppose fresh in my mind are some of these politicians that recently got elected and are now already seeking seats at the next level without even doing anything significant at their current jobs. This is just "self seeking" and does not do much for the "culture" either.

Hey, I see why someone would want to leave an employer for a better opportunity. It would be nice to see someone new come on board and actually have a Memorial Cup on his (or her) resume before moving on.

Call me crazy but I don't think next season coaching in Kitchener is going to get any up and coming coach an NHL offer.

 

[EvenSteven]

Call me crazy but I don't think next season coaching in Kitchener is going to get any up and coming coach an NHL offer.

We’re in an interesting time. We hope to host in 26-27. If not host, definitely contend. The standard contract for a coach is usually 3 years. What if, at the end of the three years, our coach moves on and we go into 26-27 looking for a coach?

 

[Tim Wallach]

We’re in an interesting time. We hope to host in 26-27. If not host, definitely contend. The standard contract for a coach is usually 3 years. What if, at the end of the three years, our coach moves on and we go into 26-27 looking for a coach?

It’s possible, but I think it’s way more likely the lure of a possible Memorial Cup experience that season would bring more candidates who want to be around for that.

 

[K2]

Not sure of the difference but is it comparable to Jr. B?

USHL is whole different thing level wise, with top talent being primarily NCAA bound most are exiting the league after 2 years so it's more U18 in nature than the OHL. Mostly top American talent on the 16 team's rosters with some Canadian and Import players.

Last year, 57 USHL players & alumni were drafted into the NHL while the OHL had 35. That measure has room for debate in multiple directions & many fronts but the two leagues are the best, just different.

Call me crazy but I don't think next season coaching in Kitchener is going to get any up and coming coach an NHL offer.

True and Green Bay has certainly produced good coaches since our last rising star that went on to the 'show', including:

Jon Cooper (2008-10) who went on to lead Norfolk to a Calder Cup (2012) then Tampa Bay to 4 Stanley Cup finals, winning 2 back-to-back.

Derek Lalonde (2011-14) who later coached ECHL, AHL and assisted Cooper at Tampa for their back-to-back cups and went on to be HC of Detroit last year.

Leone could be on the rise, like Cooper or Lalonde (both actually coached him!).

I think it’s way more likely the lure of a possible Memorial Cup experience that season would bring more candidates who want to be around for that.

Maybe, I wonder if we could even lure Leone here? Leone possibly makes $120k as a HC/GM in Green Bay, possibly more. Green Bay is one of the best USHL operations and has a great 8,500+ seat arena in a new(ish) facilty complex beside Lambeau Field. Usually games are about half full though sellouts occur (teddy toss, playoffs, etc) and there’s a lot of competition for sports fan dollars in Green Bay. Owner is PMI Entertainment Group and they operate the Resch Center arena, adjacent Resch Expo facility and the historic Meyer theatre.

I’d guess PMI has the resources to make every effort to retain Leone. A nominal $100k salary in GB is literally $140k (Can$) here but the same ‘buying power’ may require closer to $300k here (in GB gas is $0.85l, new houses start in the $300s, Ford F150s are $45k and all-you-can drink junior Hockey tickets are $30!)

IMO, we’d need to commit big $ to pull Leone out of GB and while Leone has compellingly credentials at this early point in his career (not entirely unlike like Denis) he’s still very short on track record as HC with slight success rebounding +9 wins this season in a league with a 2 year cycle. I’d guess MM & JB might be too risk averse to go all-in on Leone but maybe. If this rumor is true, it’s something of a slight on Wideman.

 

[bobber]

USHL is whole different thing level wise, with top talent being primarily NCAA bound most are exiting the league after 2 years so it's more U18 in nature than the OHL. Mostly top American talent on the 16 team's rosters with some Canadian and Import players.

Last year, 57 USHL players & alumni were drafted into the NHL while the OHL had 35. That measure has room for debate in multiple directions & many fronts but the two leagues are the best, just different.


True and Green Bay has certainly had produced good coaches since our last rising star that went on to the 'show', including:

Jon Cooper (2008-10) who went on to lead Norfolk to a Calder Cup (2012) then Tampa Bay to 4 Stanley Cup finals, winning 2 back-to-back.

Derek Lalonde (2011-14) who later coached USHL, AHL and assisted Cooper at Tampa for their back-to-back cups and went on to be HC of Detroit last year.

Leone could be on the rise, like Cooper or Lalonde (both actually coached him!).



Maybe, I wonder if we could even lure Leone here? Leone possibly makes $120k as a HC/GM in Green Bay, possibly more. Green Bay is one of the best USHL operations and has a great 8,500+ seat arena in a new(ish) facilty complex beside Lambeau Field. Usually games are about half full though sellouts occur (teddy toss, playoffs, etc) and there’s a lot of competition for sports fan dollars in Green Bay. Owner is PMI Entertainment Group and they operate the Resch Center arena, adjacent Resch Expo facility and the historic Meyer theatre.

I’d guess PMI has the resources to make every effort to retain Leone. A nominal $100k salary in GB is literally $140k (Can$) here but the same ‘buying power’ may require closer to $300k here (in GB gas is $0.85l, new houses start in the $300s, Ford F150s are $45k and all-you-can drink junior Hockey tickets are $30!)

IMO, we’d need to commit big $ to pull Leone out of GB and while Leone has compellingly credentials at this early point in his career (not entirely unlike like Denis) he’s still very short on track record as HC with slight success rebounding +9 wins this season in a league with a 2 year cycle. I’d guess MM & JB might be too risk averse to go all-in on Leone but maybe. If this rumor is true, it’s something of a slight on Wideman.

Interesting post K2. Personally I have no idea of the skill level of these US leagues. There are some really talented American hockey players and we have seen the results of their programs in pro hockey and to an extent here in the CHL. I would rather have a proven head coach with an absolute winning record but that could be a pipe dream here. My preference would be a coach that finished first a few times. The Rangers still owe Dennis his contract and that could have some effect on the decision of who they hire. No idea of the Rangers cash flow or how much they could be willing to spend on a new coach.
Doesn't matter what I think anyway. Summer doldrums are upon us now.

 

[EvenSteven]

Speaking of summer doldrums, just a thought:

It’s interesting how the announcement of the Rangers’ planned bid for the ‘27 Memorial Cup, coupled with what looks to be a successful ‘23 draft, seemingly has exonerated Mike McKenzie as GM of this team.

But for the two weeks this spring that included the Windsor sweep and the lead up to the London series, this season was pretty much an epic fail for McKenzie as GM:

‘22 draft.
Failure to get Micheal Hage signed. (Maybe even drafting him to begin with). Failure to get meaningful conditional return for Hage in trade. If he ever reports to this league, MM will look like a fool. Failure to get Cole Longacre signed, so far. What happened there? He said he was coming then abruptly changed his mind. Stubbing his toe on Hage/Longacre has crippled our ‘06 age group. Except for a couple mentions of Carson McGurn and Bottineau (obviously), the ‘22 draft class was meh at the recent development camp. There were better showings by some of the FA invites than most of the ‘22 draft class.

He failed to hire the right coach and waited too long to accept that fact.

Emptying the draft cupboard on high end graduating players (when we really should have been selling) while neglecting to address the team’s needs. He didn’t replace the character that Petizian took with him when he graduated and it showed down the stretch and vs London in the second round. Getting steamrolled in the second round after emptying the cupboard the way we did was a fail.

Even after taking over as coach, he never righted the ship resulting in an 8th place finish. If I have to hear “Consistently inconsistent” again…..

Again, this season was a gong show and he seems to have bought himself four more years via the Windsor series, the draft, and the bid announcement.

Just sayin…..

 

[Habsrule]

Also to add in with the 2022 draft class looking like a failure will have a big effect for the 2027 Mem Cup push.

That draft class will be the overagers for that year. Now I know that a lot can happen and players will develop but I don’t see anyone really being a game changer.

In the OHL four years away is an eternity and I know the rosters will change a lot. Maybe Brzustewicz and / or Rehkopf bring in a good 2022 drafted player and that will change everything.

 

[EvenSteven]

Also to add in with the 2022 draft class looking like a failure will have a big effect for the 2027 Mem Cup push.

That draft class will be the overagers for that year. Now I know that a lot can happen and players will develop but I don’t see anyone really being a game changer.

In the OHL four years away is an eternity and I know the rosters will change a lot. Maybe Brzustewicz and / or Rehkopf bring in a good 2022 drafted player and that will change everything.

Yes it’s early, But to be fair, I think Bottineau showed well last year as a 16-year-old. Especially as the season wore on. And, I thought he did OK in the playoffs in a limited role. I liked his physicality and I believe at worst he can be a very good OA in 2026-2027.

But yes, our ‘06 group is lacking. Much like our ‘04 group was this year.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Also to add in with the 2022 draft class looking like a failure will have a big effect for the 2027 Mem Cup push.

That draft class will be the overagers for that year. Now I know that a lot can happen and players will develop but I don’t see anyone really being a game changer.

In the OHL four years away is an eternity and I know the rosters will change a lot. Maybe Brzustewicz and / or Rehkopf bring in a good 2022 drafted player and that will change everything.

Hage wouldn't have been here as an OA, and possibly not Longacre if he becomes a pro prospect. OAs are the easiest high end asset to add cheap.

 

[Jives]

Ya…we should not be looking to add a 2006 via trade thinking OA possibility. It’s way too early to think that with 17 year old kids. You never know how they will try out. We really need to focus on adding 2007 players with the big trading piece we have.

 

[Wolf on a Wire]

How can the Rangers and Wolves help each other out this upcoming season? Give me your best trade scenarios??

 

[dirty12]

How can the Rangers and Wolves help each other out this upcoming season? Give me your best trade scenarios??

Rehkopf for Taylor & Walton twins

 

[AttackBeacher]

Yes it’s early, But to be fair, I think Bottineau showed well last year as a 16-year-old. Especially as the season wore on. And, I thought he did OK in the playoffs in a limited role. I liked his physicality and I believe at worst he can be a very good OA in 2026-2027.

But yes, our ‘06 group is lacking. Much like our ‘04 group was this year.

How did Kyle Morey turn out?

 

[Jives]

How did Kyle Morey turn out?

Ok 4th line player.

 

[EvenSteven]

How can the Rangers and Wolves help each other out this upcoming season? Give me your best trade scenarios??

To Sudbury
OA LW-Mitchell Martin
‘04 D-Tomas Hamara (Imp)

To Kitchener
OA D- Tourre
2nd ‘24 (Kit)
2nd ‘24 (Nia)
3rd ‘26 (Soo)
3rd ‘26 (Win).

If Sudbury cannot get Dvorsky, they would have an open import spot and better to have a veteran import in an all in season than using a freshly drafted rookie. Hamara is an NHL 3rd round pick (Ott) with WJC experience (Czech Republic)

If they were to get Dvorsky, then sub in ‘04 G-Parsons for Hamara and maybe rework the picks as long as those two 2nds still come our way.

In any case, this deal wouldn’t happen until you got word on Dvorsky.

 

[Gondrex]

Ya…we should not be looking to add a 2006 via trade thinking OA possibility. It’s way too early to think that with 17 year old kids. You never know how they will try out. We really need to focus on adding 2007 players with the big trading piece we have.

06 OA's are definitely a ways off. In my mind though, I think it's prudent to think as far ahead as is possible. Certainly it's challenging in projecting players that far out (at least for me). However if you start putting irons in the fire now and see what works / what doesn't, it might save you down the road. As you get closer to the year the Mem Cup is (assuming) hosted, the costlier it becomes in addressing any OA position. To me, the fewer draft assets you have to spend in this area at that point - if possible, the more flexibility you have in other areas. The Mem Cup host does have the advantage in loading up, knowing well in advance that they will be in the final four (in my opinion it's an unfair advantage, but that's an argument I want no part of). So the more the draft cupboard bursts at the seams the better at that point.....at least in my opinion.

 

[bobber]

Speaking of summer doldrums, just a thought:

It’s interesting how the announcement of the Rangers’ planned bid for the ‘27 Memorial Cup, coupled with what looks to be a successful ‘23 draft, seemingly has exonerated Mike McKenzie as GM of this team.

But for the two weeks this spring that included the Windsor sweep and the lead up to the London series, this season was pretty much an epic fail for McKenzie as GM:

‘22 draft.
Failure to get Micheal Hage signed. (Maybe even drafting him to begin with). Failure to get meaningful conditional return for Hage in trade. If he ever reports to this league, MM will look like a fool. Failure to get Cole Longacre signed, so far. What happened there? He said he was coming then abruptly changed his mind. Stubbing his toe on Hage/Longacre has crippled our ‘06 age group. Except for a couple mentions of Carson McGurn and Bottineau (obviously), the ‘22 draft class was meh at the recent development camp. There were better showings by some of the FA invites than most of the ‘22 draft class.

He failed to hire the right coach and waited too long to accept that fact.

Emptying the draft cupboard on high end graduating players (when we really should have been selling) while neglecting to address the team’s needs. He didn’t replace the character that Petizian took with him when he graduated and it showed down the stretch and vs London in the second round. Getting steamrolled in the second round after emptying the cupboard the way we did was a fail.

Even after taking over as coach, he never righted the ship resulting in an 8th place finish. If I have to hear “Consistently inconsistent” again…..

Again, this season was a gong show and he seems to have bought himself four more years via the Windsor series, the draft, and the bid announcement.

Just sayin…..

Nail meet hammer!

 

[Ward Cornell]

Nail meet hammer!

How did the hammer turnout in the beatdown?

 

[Tim Wallach]

How did Kyle Morey turn out?

I honestly see no upside. Maybe he'll have a Sop-like improvement as he ages, but I would love to see Kitchener aim higher with depth additions. They have to bring some key element to the table to complement the group. Enough of the vanilla guys who are not above average (or even average) at any one thing.

 

[EvenSteven]

I agree. This is a roster spot I would use on a player like FA hopeful Hlacar from the recent development camp.

Morey brought more of the same last year (vanilla is a good word) on a team that lacked in other areas.

You see what guys like Matthew Tkachuk, Sam Bennett and Radko Gudas bring to Florida. That, along with skill, is the mix you need to win.