Kitchener Rangers 2019-20 Season Thread (Part 2)

[robertmac43]

I know I'm high on Ingham, but I truly believe this guy has not only game stealing abilities, he also has series stealing abilities. With that on the team and the current win streak I cannot see this team selling at this point.

I really hope it does not send us on a course of extended mediocrity!

 

[OhSheila]

If you want to see the draft pick cupboards of OHL teams, the unnofficial list is

HERE

 

[EvenSteven]

Here are some ideas for some possible trades to bolster us for this season.

ER:
Yetman
Golod


KIT:
Dickerson
Serpa
KIT 2nd 2022
OSH 3rd 2023
OTT 3rd 2024
MIS 3rd 2020
KIT 4th 2021


OS:
Dudas

KIT:
KIT 2nd 2021
BAR 2nd 2024
OTT 3rd 2022
MISS 3rd 2022
KIT 4th 2023
KIT 5th 2024


Our lines for the remainder of the year.

Valade-Damiani-Yantsis
Pinelli-Meireles-Hawel
Golod-Dudas-Yetman
Stepian/Petizian-Langdon-McDonnell/Fishman

Vuks-Sebrango
Mac-Axel
Ville-X/Motew

Ingham


PP1
Would still look the same

PP2
Pinelli-Dudas-Yetman/Golod
Valade-Sebrango

Our penalty kill de would stay the same however for forwards we can rotate between any of the following; Damiani, Dudas, Hawel, Meireles, Petizian, Valade and McDonnell.


You can play each forward line 15 minutes a night. Our 3rd line in this case would be matching up against weaker opponents but you can also have them playing against top lines while you give our 1st or 2nd line a break. By bringing in these 3 forwards we can basically have a more balanced 2nd PP so our first unit does not have to stay out for nearly 2 minutes. Like mentioned earlier by posters, who knows what can happen come time playoffs. We could be out in the 1st round or we can win a mem cup. This same logic can be said the 2021/2022 season when we look to be decent then. In the world of sports you have to live in the present and keep the future in mind. This is why I believe that we should buy this year. What are your thoughts on these trades and what we should be doing in 4 weeks time.

Just responding to your post. I’m not in the “buy” camp right now but:

I don’t think we need Dudas. He’s a center and we are already flush at center as we’re already playing Hawel on wing. If we go after an elite player, maybe Serron Noel, who’s a winger, may come a tad cheaper just based on the season he’s having. Or perhaps we go a little cheaper still and entertain bringing in Popov. He’s a LW which we have a need for and he could be an OA next year while Dudas or Noel would not. Owen Sound only paid a 6th for him, so if we up that somewhat, they may bite.

Maybe we bring in two F’s and a D instead of three F’s.

How about adding D Carter Robertson to LW Popov in a deal with OS and then bring in LW Golod from Erie.

All three would provide depth. All three would be good OA candidates next year. I think we get away without totally emptying the cupboard. At least then we would have more than just Vukojovic to trade next year in a reset year preparing for 21-22. If these guys come back for their OA season, they will have some value in trade.

Golod - Meireles - Hawel
Popov - Damiani - Yantsis
Valade - Pinelli - McDonnell
Petizian - Langdon - Stepien
Fishman

Vukojovic - Sebrango
Bergkvist - MacPherson
Ottavainen - Robertson
Xhekaj - Motew

If we look at our big four up front as the primary pair on our top two lines, the incoming LW’s would be pretty good thirds. Also, we only have two left shot forwards on the roster. This would give us four.

Mix and match the bottom six.

If we went the Serron Noel route, I go with Popov as the other forward. He’s seems to be more of a setup guy so maybe put him on Yantsis’ line:

Hawel - Meireles - Noel
Popov - Damiani - Yantsis

Noel would be expensive but if we work out a two part deal, maybe Noel here for picks (2x2nds, 3x3rds) and then Vukojovic to Oshawa in the off season for similar picks back?

Popov and Robertson could maybe be acquired for 3x3rds? Maybe add a 2nd as part of the deal along with Serpa/Dickerson?

 

[Attackfan72]

Wow you guys look strong! And that Ingham kid, wow! First place in 2 weeks!

 

[GeoBlue]

Not ripping on Farwell and Pope, just looking at their opinions on buying/selling regarding Kitchener and Guelph.

Every reason they give that Guelph should sell (they both make some great points) are the same reasons that the Rangers should sell yet they stand by the opinion that the Rangers should be buyers.

Their opinion is that:
The Rangers are healthy now and now we see who they are. They are a contender so we have to take advantage and be buyers at the deadline. We are 8-0. How can we sell? We shouldn’t sell Ingham or Damiani because there is a chance they return as OA’s next year.

They also say:
Hillis, Gogolev and Gordeev look to graduate after this year (but Gogolev isn’t drafted and Hillis was a 5th rounder to the Habs so they aren’t guaranteed gone after this year), so they have to take advantage of their trade value and move them to build the bank of draft picks. Keep Daws as he should be back next year then cash in on him in trade.

When a caller debated these points to Farwell last night his answer was that the Storm won a championship after trading away 21 draft picks and need to get them back. Thats all he had. Whether a won a championship or not last year, or were even buyers last year isn’t the issue. The issue is our scarcity of high draft picks.

It could be argued that the only difference between the two team’s situations is the fact that Guelph’s current draft cupboard is much healthier than the Rangers.

Otherwise, their situations are the same or worse off for the Rangers:

Regarding high end graduating players:
The Rangers will lose Meireles, Hawel and Yantsis after this year. They likely lose Ingham and Damiani.
Guelph will lose Gordeev and may lose Hillis and Gogolev.
I contend that Guelph has a better chance of Hillis and Gogolev returning than we do Ingham and Damiani.

Guelph is in much better shape going into next year with OA’s. They have Uba, Roach, Stevenson and Farwell and Pope both say Daws will be back. That’s four decent OA’s - three of them guaranteed, going into a year they don’t look to be top contenders. The Rangers have MacPherson and we hope Ingham and Damiani return. Bergkvist will graduate and I doubt Pfiel will in our plans.

The strength of both teams after this year seems to be the 2002 and 2003 groups. The 2001 groups are thin on both ends of highway 7 though our guys may hold more value. That means next year likely isn’t an all in year for either team. Selling is the answer for Guelph to continue to build the cupboard to go all in the following year, yet the Rangers, in the same boat, should buy this year?

I agree with their logic regarding Guelph but don’t understand why their logic changes when it comes to the Rangers.

Stepping back from the speculation and just looking at the standings, I've got to say, "Wow!" There is definitely parity in the league, especially the West, and it is a tough call to say who is selling and who is buying based on placement. You might say some are overachieving and some underachieving but the reality of it is that there are 12 points separating 1st from last at the time of this posting. Despite the Rangers streak, they are just as far as out of 1st as they are last! The teams in the East look stronger but the standings there are skewed as they seem to have more weaker teams there and thus higher numbers.

My only big concern if we "go for it" is the goaltending. If Ingham goes down, we are not going anywhere and we will need a backup who can hold the fort and the players will have confidence in. Despite flashes of brilliance, Pfiel does not fit the bill.

I am still in the sell camp but will be telling myself that I am just "Joe a bit above average fan" whereas MM is the GM. He has made mostly surprising trades over his tenure and I will cross my fingers and hope he continues. That is why he is GM. In the meantime, I am going to enjoy this ride that the Rangers are taking us on right now.

 

[OhSheila]

If we go for it this year and don't win the OHL title, we'll have low assets for years to come.

Before this win streak we lost 10 of 12 games. The team was not as bad as that stretch would indicate and they're not as good as this current win streak might indicate. They are somewhere in the middle of those extremes.

I'm loving the way they are playing, but the realist in me says, as good as they are, they are not potential OHL Champions. It would be a huge gamble going all in this year that would cost us a competitive future.

Follow the Knights model and don't get emotional or reactionary. Be realistic and know when to sell.

 

[bobber]

Stepping back from the speculation and just looking at the standings, I've got to say, "Wow!" There is definitely parity in the league, especially the West, and it is a tough call to say who is selling and who is buying based on placement. You might say some are overachieving and some underachieving but the reality of it is that there are 12 points separating 1st from last at the time of this posting. Despite the Rangers streak, they are just as far as out of 1st as they are last! The teams in the East look stronger but the standings there are skewed as they seem to have more weaker teams there and thus higher numbers.

My only big concern if we "go for it" is the goaltending. If Ingham goes down, we are not going anywhere and we will need a backup who can hold the fort and the players will have confidence in. Despite flashes of brilliance, Pfiel does not fit the bill.

I am still in the sell camp but will be telling myself that I am just "Joe a bit above average fan" whereas MM is the GM. He has made mostly surprising trades over his tenure and I will cross my fingers and hope he continues. That is why he is GM. In the meantime, I am going to enjoy this ride that the Rangers are taking us on right now.

I agree with this post. The Rangers are really playing the way we have hoped for the last so many years. Especially in our barn which is great for fans. Our assets are really thin though. MM would be seriously out bid by contenders with more experienced squads and tons of 2nds for the top players in the league IMO. He would be risking the future of the team success if he trades off the two seconds in the next for seasons and goes out in one round. Teams willing to trade high end players want your best rookies. Not the players on the bubble. We are really enjoying this run also. Finally seeing the Rangers play hard in all three zones.

 

[bobber]

Here are some ideas for some possible trades to bolster us for this season.

ER:
Yetman
Golod


KIT:
Dickerson
Serpa
KIT 2nd 2022
OSH 3rd 2023
OTT 3rd 2024
MIS 3rd 2020
KIT 4th 2021


OS:
Dudas

KIT:
KIT 2nd 2021
BAR 2nd 2024
OTT 3rd 2022
MISS 3rd 2022
KIT 4th 2023
KIT 5th 2024


Our lines for the remainder of the year.

Valade-Damiani-Yantsis
Pinelli-Meireles-Hawel
Golod-Dudas-Yetman
Stepian/Petizian-Langdon-McDonnell/Fishman

Vuks-Sebrango
Mac-Axel
Ville-X/Motew

Ingham


PP1
Would still look the same

PP2
Pinelli-Dudas-Yetman/Golod
Valade-Sebrango

Our penalty kill de would stay the same however for forwards we can rotate between any of the following; Damiani, Dudas, Hawel, Meireles, Petizian, Valade and McDonnell.


You can play each forward line 15 minutes a night. Our 3rd line in this case would be matching up against weaker opponents but you can also have them playing against top lines while you give our 1st or 2nd line a break. By bringing in these 3 forwards we can basically have a more balanced 2nd PP so our first unit does not have to stay out for nearly 2 minutes. Like mentioned earlier by posters, who knows what can happen come time playoffs. We could be out in the 1st round or we can win a mem cup. This same logic can be said the 2021/2022 season when we look to be decent then. In the world of sports you have to live in the present and keep the future in mind. This is why I believe that we should buy this year. What are your thoughts on these trades and what we should be doing in 4 weeks time.

Dickerson and Serpa haven't score a goal yet. They just don't seem like the type of players teams making deals at the deadline are looking for.

 

[Connected]

Had a few minutes to kill at work and put this together out of curiosity.

Shows players stats since Mackenzie took over as HC.
Biggest changes are with defensemen and depth forwards contributing more offensively. It's night and day.

As for the top forwards, looks like the recent power-play struggles are really hurting their point totals.
Could argue that any trades the Rangers make should consider strong power-play performers.
If the power-play gets going and Ingham stays healthy, look out!

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

Had a few minutes to kill at work and put this together out of curiosity.

Shows players stats since Mackenzie took over as HC.
Biggest changes are with defensemen and depth forwards contributing more offensively. It's night and day.

As for the top forwards, looks like the recent power-play struggles are really hurting their point totals.
Could argue that any trades the Rangers make should consider strong power-play performers.
If the power-play gets going and Ingham stays healthy, look out!
View attachment 292405

the biggest difference with the depth forwards, mainly the 4th line, is that he rolls them out just like the other 3 lines for the 1st and 2nd periods. McKee gave them a couple shifts a period and they could never get anything going. it probably played a part in why Isaac Langdon didn’t take the leap we expected him to (that and the injury last season). Tresoor, Dickerson, Xhekaj, Rupoli, Serpa & Fishman were all set up for failure in their time on the 4th line as well under Jay. not many “contenders” have 4th lines that went in to December with only 1 combined point between the 3 players

 

[Offside by a mile]

I know the majority of people posting are in the sell camp. I don’t understand it honestly. I hear championship or bust constantly. See Niagra of last year if you think loading up at the deadline ensures a championship. There’s so many variables when it comes to winning and OHL championship( see Guelph Storm) of last year. They are a game away in the 2nd round from being knocked out and everyone would have said they emptied the cupboard for nothing. Since they won it Burnett is a genius. So many things come have to align to win, great play obviously, some luck and of course health. We have not had a goalie like Ingham in 10 years. He alone gives me hope of what this year could be. I’m concerned everyone thinks getting all these picks ensures we will be awesome in the future. Well than we still need a goalie and what’s to say in 2 years Pinelli and Sebrango get season long injuries. ‘Knock on wood’ Well now we have just let a legit chance this year go by, for the hopes of future years. I was totally in the sell camp last year as we did not have the OA’s to do it. But to let a year in which we have a goalie that could alone steal a series would be foolish and a complete oversite on our management. I’m not saying trade all of our picks away but the West does not have a dominant team like we have seen them n years past. We can compete and with a little confidence who knows what could happen. Thoughts?

 

[EvenSteven]

I know the majority of people posting are in the sell camp. I don’t understand it honestly. I hear championship or bust constantly. See Niagra of last year if you think loading up at the deadline ensures a championship. There’s so many variables when it comes to winning and OHL championship( see Guelph Storm) of last year. They are a game away in the 2nd round from being knocked out and everyone would have said they emptied the cupboard for nothing. Since they won it Burnett is a genius. So many things come have to align to win, great play obviously, some luck and of course health. We have not had a goalie like Ingham in 10 years. He alone gives me hope of what this year could be. I’m concerned everyone thinks getting all these picks ensures we will be awesome in the future. Well than we still need a goalie and what’s to say in 2 years Pinelli and Sebrango get season long injuries. ‘Knock on wood’ Well now we have just let a legit chance this year go by, for the hopes of future years. I was totally in the sell camp last year as we did not have the OA’s to do it. But to let a year in which we have a goalie that could alone steal a series would be foolish and a complete oversite on our management. I’m not saying trade all of our picks away but the West does not have a dominant team like we have seen them n years past. We can compete and with a little confidence who knows what could happen. Thoughts?

John Gibson was here 6 years ago.

We’re on a winning streak but if we use the injury excuse for our bad stretch before the McKee firing, we have to recognize that many of the games during this streak came against teams missing high end players. I don’t think we’re as good as our streak displays just as we weren’t as bad as the bad stretch we went through.

We stand pat, other west contenders in the conference pass us by at the deadline. We don’t have the assets to buy high end players unless we move quality youth. Serpa or Dickerson won’t get it done. For elite players, teams will be asking for the likes of Pinelli, Valade, McDonnell.

This team needs two F’s and should bring in a top four D to contend. Even then, once London, Flint and Saginaw are done buying, we may still find ourselves behind those three.

Our chances wouldn’t be much better than if we stood pat.

If we had a draft cupboard as full as it was on opening day 2017 it would be a different story.

 

[Ward Cornell]

Im in the sell option, yeah, the Rangers could get to the 2nd or 3rd round but that's empty victories unless they advance beyond that "false goal".
At least now, McKenzie if he's in a sell mode it's into a competitive market with the parity in the league plus he'll be dealing from strength that he doesn't have to sell!

 

[Offside by a mile]

Fair point on Gibson. I would bet MM who I believe knows what he is doing will not sell at the deadline. I guess we’ll see. For now I’m enjoying the Rangers and the compete level more than anything. He’s allowing the forward more freedom in the O-zone, allows the def to jump up in the rush, the speed through the neutral zone has been so much better as of late. All of these things have increased our goal out put. I’ll take my chance with Ingham any day.

John Gibson was here 6 years ago.

We’re on a winning streak but if we use the injury excuse for our bad stretch before the McKee firing, we have to recognize that many of the games during this streak came against teams missing high end players. I don’t think we’re as good as our streak displays just as we weren’t as bad as the bad stretch we went through.

We stand pat, other west contenders in the conference pass us by at the deadline. We don’t have the assets to buy high end players unless we move quality youth. Serpa or Dickerson won’t get it done. For elite players, teams will be asking for the likes of Pinelli, Valade, McDonnell.

This team needs two F’s and should bring in a top four D to contend. Even then, once London, Flint and Saginaw are done buying, we may still find ourselves behind those three.

Our chances wouldn’t be much better than if we stood pat.

If we had a draft cupboard as full as it was on opening day 2017 it would be a different story.

 

[GeoBlue]

We have not had a goalie like Ingham in 10 years. He alone gives me hope of what this year could be. But to let a year in which we have a goalie that could alone steal a series would be foolish and a complete oversite on our management. Thoughts?

Thus my concern about our BU situation. If Ingham goes down during the playoffs, everything implodes. Not only due to our weak BU situation, but the confidence in the other players as well. I admit Pfiel has shown improvement, and has been spectacular at times, but I don't feel he is quite there as a BU, and then we are back to needing to score 8 or 9 goals (See this past Friday) in order to win.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

losing your starting goalie to an injury will almost always blow everything up in your face (yes, even in Guelph. Daws was an .893 last year). it’s an assumed risk when you go in assuming you’re not carrying an NHL drafted backup goalie

 

[GeoBlue]

losing your starting goalie to an injury will almost always blow everything up in your face (yes, even in Guelph. Daws was an .893 last year). it’s an assumed risk when you go in assuming you’re not carrying an NHL drafted backup goalie

Then we can say that it is truly a crap shoot and one never knows whether to buy or sell. Where would have Guelph been had Prosvetov not been suspended, or if DiPietro would not have went down? And they didn't win the Mem Cup anyways, right? I am still in the sell camp but if our 2 - 4 lines keep developing, and the top 4 pick up (As they did on Saturday) and Ingham stays healthy............who knows? And this is assuming that the other contenders stay healthy, trade well, etc.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Then we can say that it is truly a crap shoot and one never knows whether to buy or sell. Where would have Guelph been had Prosvetov not been suspended, or if DiPietro would not have went down? And they didn't win the Mem Cup anyways, right? I am still in the sell camp but if our 2 - 4 lines keep developing, and the top 4 pick up (As they did on Saturday) and Ingham stays healthy............who knows? And this is assuming that the other contenders stay healthy, trade well, etc.

I mean, Ottawa is an example of having an excellent backup and still losing. Before adding Dipietro, Cedrick Andre had some of the best numbers in the league and continues to do so this season. Not having a BU that is starting calibre is generally true of most teams, even those contending.

 

[GeoBlue]

losing your starting goalie to an injury will almost always blow everything up in your face (yes, even in Guelph. Daws was an .893 last year). it’s an assumed risk when you go in assuming you’re not carrying an NHL drafted backup goalie

and Saginaw had Tristan Lennox.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

what if, hypothetically, we get to January 6th (the day after the last game before trade deadline) and the win streak is now sitting at 17. or say they’re 14-3 or whatever in their last 17. how does Mike McKenzie tell the fanbase that he doesn’t believe the team is good enough to go for it? how do the players react? I know I would be pissed as a player to have the GM/coach give up on them while they’re on that kind of hot streak

I’m on the sell train, and even though this win streak has been fun to watch, it’s not great timing

 

[GeoBlue]

what if, hypothetically, we get to January 6th (the day after the last game before trade deadline) and the win streak is now sitting at 17. or say they’re 14-3 or whatever in their last 17. how does Mike McKenzie tell the fanbase that he doesn’t believe the team is good enough to go for it? how do the players react? I know I would be pissed as a player to have the GM/coach give up on them while they’re on that kind of hot streak

I’m on the sell train, and even though this win streak has been fun to watch, it’s not great timing

If this is the scenario, I say to stay with the horses that are keeping you in the race, perhaps with a few minor upgrades. Hang on to your prized draft picks and hope that Ingham stays healthy.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

If this is the scenario, I say to stay with the horses that are keeping you in the race, perhaps with a few minor upgrades. Hang on to your prized draft picks and hope that Ingham stays healthy.

that’s fair. someone mentioned Maxim Golod and Chad Yetman. I say just go for Golod and add a cheap 4C (Luke Drewitt on Kingston would be a cheap add and he has a FOW % of 57) and the lines could be:

Pinelli-Meireles-Hawel
Golod-Damiani-Yantsis
Valade-Langdon-McDonnell
Petizian-Drewitt-Stepien

Serpa goes in for injuries. let Fishman play Jr. elsewhere to finish the season and do as you please with Dickerson

 

[robertmac43]

Valade-Langdon-McDonnell

Would not hate those trades. Plus if these 3 guys continue to grow this would be a really good top 9. Valade and McDonnell have been especially good since Jay was sent packing.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

Would not hate those trades. Plus if these 3 guys continue to grow this would be a really good top 9. Valade and McDonnell have been especially good since Jay was sent packing.

they’ve definitely been green-lighted to be a bit more high tempo on the forecheck and it’s been fun

 

[EvenSteven]

and Saginaw had Tristan Lennox.

Lennox projects to be a high end goalie in this league, but at 16 years old it was a tough ask for him to come into the series vs Guelph when he did last spring.