Kitchener Rangers 2019-20 Season Thread (Part 2)

[EvenSteven]

Not ripping on Farwell and Pope, just looking at their opinions on buying/selling regarding Kitchener and Guelph.

Every reason they give that Guelph should sell (they both make some great points) are the same reasons that the Rangers should sell yet they stand by the opinion that the Rangers should be buyers.

Their opinion is that:
The Rangers are healthy now and now we see who they are. They are a contender so we have to take advantage and be buyers at the deadline. We are 8-0. How can we sell? We shouldn’t sell Ingham or Damiani because there is a chance they return as OA’s next year.

They also say:
Hillis, Gogolev and Gordeev look to graduate after this year (but Gogolev isn’t drafted and Hillis was a 5th rounder to the Habs so they aren’t guaranteed gone after this year), so they have to take advantage of their trade value and move them to build the bank of draft picks. Keep Daws as he should be back next year then cash in on him in trade.

When a caller debated these points to Farwell last night his answer was that the Storm won a championship after trading away 21 draft picks and need to get them back. Thats all he had. Whether a won a championship or not last year, or were even buyers last year isn’t the issue. The issue is our scarcity of high draft picks.

It could be argued that the only difference between the two team’s situations is the fact that Guelph’s current draft cupboard is much healthier than the Rangers.

Otherwise, their situations are the same or worse off for the Rangers:

Regarding high end graduating players:
The Rangers will lose Meireles, Hawel and Yantsis after this year. They likely lose Ingham and Damiani.
Guelph will lose Gordeev and may lose Hillis and Gogolev.
I contend that Guelph has a better chance of Hillis and Gogolev returning than we do Ingham and Damiani.

Guelph is in much better shape going into next year with OA’s. They have Uba, Roach, Stevenson and Farwell and Pope both say Daws will be back. That’s four decent OA’s - three of them guaranteed, going into a year they don’t look to be top contenders. The Rangers have MacPherson and we hope Ingham and Damiani return. Bergkvist will graduate and I doubt Pfiel will in our plans.

The strength of both teams after this year seems to be the 2002 and 2003 groups. The 2001 groups are thin on both ends of highway 7 though our guys may hold more value. That means next year likely isn’t an all in year for either team. Selling is the answer for Guelph to continue to build the cupboard to go all in the following year, yet the Rangers, in the same boat, should buy this year?

I agree with their logic regarding Guelph but don’t understand why their logic changes when it comes to the Rangers.

 

[EvenSteven]

MM has stepped in and done a fantastic job behind the bench. It looks like he's shown trust and confidence in the players. Players are showing creativity and using their skills. There's some jump in their game. The compete level is there. Their speed is being used. They're pushing back when their opposition pushes them. They have each other's backs. They are fun and entertaining to watch. They have confidence. It looks like they believe in each other.

MM sees each player differently than Jay did. Maybe McKee had his favourites and didn't give some a chance to shine. He always said the right thing to Josh Brown and to Farwell and Pope, but was he different behind the scenes?

Sebrango, Bergkvist and Vukes are using their offense skills very well. Sebrango's goal was an incredible snipe. Vukes is carrying the puck with authority. Valade is heating up and has benefitted with playing with Damiani who continues to be one the the best 2 way players in the OHL. Meireles is energized and stood up well when Hamilton got frustrated and started cheap shotting in the 3rd. Nice to see Arber get his first of the season. Nice to see Fishman and Petizian score and Pinelli get his 9th of the season

Lines have some chemistry. The 3rd line impressed me last night. Langdon is just about to break out. Declan McDonnell looks better every game. Stepian is contributing nicely.

I'm noticing Serpa out there now. Fishman's skill is showing and Petizian who I have criticized is getting results from all his hard work. He's doing things he didn't or couldn't under McKee.

The only small tweak I would make on the lines is to have Yantsis and Meireles on the same line. They had some amazing chemistry.

Nice post!
But on your last point, I was in the camp where I thought that Meireles/Yantsis had to stay together to replicate the seasons they had last year. MM is showing that they can be split up and the team still play well despite that.

You’re right though as their numbers are behind last year’s pace and perhaps reuniting them could result in them ramping up their numbers to where they were last year.

 

[EvenSteven]

If the Rangers are able to ad some help smartly that is one team I wouldn’t want to see in the playoffs. An old school Petes vs Rangers finals I’d take any day!! Toughest rink in OHL to play in as a visitor I say.
Good luck rest of the way

I wish we had a stocked cupboard and more high end quality (we just have Vukojovic) to sell off next year if we empty the cupboard of assets at this deadline.

 

[rangersblues]

If the Rangers are able to ad some help smartly that is one team I wouldn’t want to see in the playoffs. An old school Petes vs Rangers finals I’d take any day!! Toughest rink in OHL to play in as a visitor I say.
Good luck rest of the way

A Petes vs Rangers final would be new school. Never happened before. As far as I recall they've only met one time in the playoffs.

 

[Gondrex]

True, but for us who remember the old times - the Gens, 67's, Petes, Knights, along with the St Catharines Black Hawks, Hamilton Red Wings, Toronto Marlboros, Niagara Falls Flyers and Montreal Jr. Canadiens I think that would be special.

Still not sure how this team gets there. Not enough older talent to fight the playoff battles, and to acquire it will likely be expensive pick-wise and/or having to part with young talent. As many have pointed out, the cupboard is not bare, but there probably isn't enough high picks in the bank to get enough of those talented experienced players.

 

[OhSheila]

I love the way the team is playing. This winning streak is nice. We've got a good team, a very good team.

I just can't see, even with adding some players with our limited assets, this team winning the OHL Championship.

If we emptied the draft cupboard and lost some young players, to upgrade the team, we'd be taking a huge chance that I just don't see paying off. To do that and get to the second or even third round would be a waste.

We're in an excellent position to sell. A sell fills the draft cupboard, gets us a young player or 2 and sets us up to be strong year after year.

One thing you can say about the Hunters is they know when their team isn't OHL Champion material and they sell. When they know they're close, they buy and have enough assets without emptying their draft cupboard. Last year they traded Robert Thomas to Hamilton and got Connor McMichael and draft picks in return. They also sent Max Jones and Cliff Pu to Kingston and got Nathan Dunkley, Sergei Popov and a load of draft picks. They had the smarts to know that even with the players they traded and adding a few, they weren't going to be the OHL Champions. They made the hard but wise decision to sell.

This is where the Rangers are.

Winning a first or second round playoff series is NOT a successful season. Aim for the big prize.

Time to sell.

 

[EvenSteven]

True, but for us who remember the old times - the Gens, 67's, Petes, Knights, along with the St Catharines Black Hawks, Hamilton Red Wings, Toronto Marlboros, Niagara Falls Flyers and Montreal Jr. Canadiens I think that would be special.

Still not sure how this team gets there. Not enough older talent to fight the playoff battles, and to acquire it will likely be expensive pick-wise and/or having to part with young talent. As many have pointed out, the cupboard is not bare, but there probably isn't enough high picks in the bank to get enough of those talented experienced players.

Further, as we found out last year vs Guelph, when you don’t have older talent, it’s easy for coaching to zero in on the top talent we do have. Burnett took apart our PP last year. We had the #1 PP last year and it clicked no matter who the opposition was.

But because it was what we relied on, good coaching and the tendency to “put away the whistle” in the post season contributed to our one sided defeat.

We go into this post season standing pat or mildly buying a piece or two, our rookie forwards, especially the fourth line, who are playing really good now, will be overmatched in the post season once we run into the better teams. Usually, contenders tend to have older players on the bottom lines. It’ll be tough to ask Fishman etc to deal with that adversity vs those teams.

As a result, we’ll be shortening the bench and will be in tough vs teams who’ll be able to roll four lines.

 

[dirty12]

The knights do know when to sell. It’s not just about selling when not being the top ranked team, it’s about gauging the market properly and having coveted graduating players too. The rangers could be among 13-14 teams not buying; and, the only graduating player having real trade value is Damiani.
Trade Ingham next season? Like many have posted, 2020-21 is not the season for the rangers; could the team not just wait until next year to sell and add to the ‘02 & ‘03 born?
The draft cupboard containing 3-2nds, 9-3rds, & up to 7-4ths is far from bare of high picks, imo. I think the rangers can add a scoring winger for just picks making a very formidable top six; then, sell in the OHL host season to be right on track for 2021-22.

 

[GeoBlue]

Great game last night except for the 3rd period lapse. Team really didn't seem to get it going until the 2nd. Impressed with the fact that there were 9 different goals scorers and our top 3 or 4 were not even factors until the latter part of the game. I don't think Damiani even got a point?

Meireles flattens a Bulldog at center ice, another Bulldog takes offense and goes after Greg and Meireles puts him to the ice as well. Then said Bulldog looks for a fight at which time someone (can't remember who) steps in for Meireles. These guys are playing with grit and watching each other's backs. Love it!

Nice shots on the goals by Fishman and X man.

Not sure about high sticking penalty calls when the stick is 6 inches from the ice and the opponent is laying flat on his stomach.

Pfeil seems to be getting better but is still spotty. Made some terrific saves but with Ingham in net, the game remains a blowout. Sure, we left him out to dry once the score was out of hand but Ingham stops some of those shots and lets the Bulldogs know that there will be no comeback. I kept recalling that game between the Bulldogs and the Wolves a few weeks ago where Hamilton scored 8 goals in the 2nd period in an 11-10 barn burner. They have the ability.

For the record, I still feel we need to sell barring some sort of miracle deals by MM that all of us might be overlooking. The win streak is great and the hockey has been enjoyable. But if we hint on buying, and London decides to counter by throwing all their draft picks out there, they can bury us in mediocrity for many years to come. After watching last night's game, I have the feeling that we can sell off our OA's, maybe get some picks and a younger player or 2 in return, and still remain competitive for this year.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

if MM can manage to go for it this year without jeopardizing the 2021-22 season, count me in.

should he go all in, all we really have to trade away next year is Vukojevic and to an extent MacPherson. there is also the possibility that they add someone who doesn’t have/get an ELC after this year and has to play an OA season (a la Liam Hawel). that could be Jacob Ingham too (who could get an ELC and still play an OA year, which seems more reasonable than playing in the ECHL)

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

my fear with the west this year is that there are 6 pretty good teams right now (Guelph, Saginaw, London, Flint, Windsor, Kitchener). it won’t be like last year where the top 4 teams in the conference torched the bottom 4 in the first round. the 3/4/5/6 seeds should be a toss up the way it is going as of now.

I don’t think the Rangers will finish top 2 in the conference is my concern. even if they moved up to 3rd, it wouldn’t be an easy matchup in the first round like it would’ve been last year

 

[EvenSteven]

if MM can manage to go for it this year without jeopardizing the 2021-22 season, count me in.

should he go all in, all we really have to trade away next year is Vukojevic and to an extent MacPherson. there is also the possibility that they add someone who doesn’t have/get an ELC after this year and has to play an OA season (a la Liam Hawel). that could be Jacob Ingham too

He can’t.

Here are the pick breakdowns in the west.

Kitchener- 3x2nds,9x3rds
Guelph- 6x2nds, 4x3rds
Erie- 4x2nds, 1x3rd
Owen Sound- 4x2nds, 6x3rds
London- 6x2nds, 6x3rds
Flint- 6x2nds, 7x3rds
Saginaw-6x2nds, 3x3rds
Sarnia- 3x2nds, 3x3rds
Soo- 4x2nds, 3x3rds
Windsor- 7x2nds, 5x3rds

Teams that will buy are in great shape. Teams that should sell aren’t.

We only have 3 x 2nds. 2nds are the top currency in trades. 3rds are ok but not near as valuable or in demand. Two 3rds may equal one 2nd but teams would likely want the 2nd over two 3rds.

Couple that with only Vukojovic (high end) to sell next year and the path we should take is obvious.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

He can’t.

Here are the pick breakdowns in the west.

Kitchener- 3x2nds,9x3rds
Guelph- 6x2nds, 4x3rds
Erie- 4x2nds, 1x3rd
Owen Sound- 4x2nds, 6x3rds
London- 6x2nds, 6x3rds
Flint- 6x2nds, 7x3rds
Saginaw-6x2nds, 3x3rds
Sarnia- 3x2nds, 3x3rds
Soo- 4x2nds, 3x3rds
Windsor- 7x2nds, 5x3rds

Teams that will buy are in great shape. Teams that should sell aren’t.

We only have 3 x 2nds. 2nds are the top currency in trades. 3rds are ok but not near as valuable or in demand. Two 3rds may equal one 2nd but teams would likely want the 2nd over two 3rds.

Couple that with only Vukojovic (high end) to sell next year and the path we should take is obvious.

to me, that brings us back to the “bringing players in” conversation. not just the development. literally just have guys here. make it harder to earn a spot in the lineup. make every player play their absolute best or else they won’t play. after some time, the odd guys out get traded for picks.

my point being, if they can’t afford to move 1 02 without the worry of jeopardizing their next playoff run, they probably shouldn’t go for it this year.

there were plenty of opportunities to bring guys in. Mitchell Martin looked good at camp and is looking great in the NOJHL. Logan Gallagher would have been fun on the 4th line. Kyle Van Compernolle was at all the camps here before he made his NCAA commitment (he may have been offered a spot and turned down with that being said)

 

[EvenSteven]

On Gallagher and his rambunctious play in camp: I wonder if he makes this team without McKee around.

It’s obvious based in this team's play before and after the coaching change that the style of play Gallagher brought wouldn’t have been welcomed by McKee if that was his prime asset.

On moving an 02:
Right now Valade, Sebrango, Ottavainen and MacDonnell look to be pretty good and should be that much better next year. I could stomach moving a Langdon or Serpa but neither likely hold much trade value based on their play/numbers thus far.

In my opinion, I keep those two in hopes that their play ramps up next year when they move up the lineup.

 

[dirty12]

He can’t.

Here are the pick breakdowns in the west.

Kitchener- 3x2nds,9x3rds
Guelph- 6x2nds, 4x3rds
Erie- 4x2nds, 1x3rd
Owen Sound- 4x2nds, 6x3rds
London- 6x2nds, 6x3rds
Flint- 6x2nds, 7x3rds
Saginaw-6x2nds, 3x3rds
Sarnia- 3x2nds, 3x3rds
Soo- 4x2nds, 3x3rds
Windsor- 7x2nds, 5x3rds

Teams that will buy are in great shape. Teams that should sell aren’t.

We only have 3 x 2nds. 2nds are the top currency in trades. 3rds are ok but not near as valuable or in demand. Two 3rds may equal one 2nd but teams would likely want the 2nd over two 3rds.

Couple that with only Vukojovic (high end) to sell next year and the path we should take is obvious.

Looks like only Flint & London among buyers has better than Kitchener. I (don’t think) Windsor is in this season.

going by picks traded pre-seadon up to now, 3+5 = 2

 

[EvenSteven]

Looks like only Flint & London among buyers has better than Kitchener. I (don’t think) Windsor is in this season.

going by picks traded pre-seadon up to now, 3+5 = 2

Going into this trade deadline, I will take the 2nds and 3rds that Saginaw has over ours. There is much more value in having six second round picks then only three 2nd round picks. Especially since one of their 2nds is in the upcoming draft. We don’t have a 2nd in ‘20.

Add to that the fact that we will not be trading our first round pick while they would likely be open to trading their’s.

They are in much better shape than us as far as buying at this deadline.

In other words, I would gladly swap six of our 3rds for three of their 2nds including the one they have in 2020.

I agree that Windsor probably does nothing. They likely try to contend next year. They are already pretty well off pick wise

 

[GeoBlue]

I have a couple of "connection" questions if anyone happens to know the answers........

1. What is the connection between Sebrango and Langdon? I have a hard time hearing the features on the scoreboard and they a happened to feature Sebrango last night, and they were asking him about Langdon?

2. What is the connection between MacPherson and Ryan Merkley? They always seem to be chatting together (in a friendly matter!) when the 2 teams play each other?

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

I have a couple of "connection" questions if anyone happens to know the answers........

1. What is the connection between Sebrango and Langdon? I have a hard time hearing the features on the scoreboard and they a happened to feature Sebrango last night, and they were asking him about Langdon?

2. What is the connection between MacPherson and Ryan Merkley? They always seem to be chatting together (in a friendly matter!) when the 2 teams play each other?

1. childhood friends. Langdon lived in Kingston prior to moving to Belleville (or vice versa, I forget) and they played together in minor hockey.

2. i have no clue

 

[rangersblues]

A dominant performance today in Guelph. Possibly the best all around effort of the 9 game winning streak. One of the things that impressed me the most was when Bergkvist got caught on a pinch with about 6 minutes left, Yantsis came back hard to prevent a scoring chance.

 

[SYWTom]

Impressive effort today. I know they didn’t have Daws in goal but we still only allowed one goal to the #1 team.

Kitchener is playing great hockey. I know people want to sell, but I can see small additions working for a deep playoff run. I know championship or bust is the tag line, but ya never know what happens in the playoffs.

 

[rangersblues]

Impressive effort today. I know they didn’t have Daws in goal but we still only allowed one goal to the #1 team.

Kitchener is playing great hockey. I know people want to sell, but I can see small additions working for a deep playoff run. I know championship or bust is the tag line, but ya never know what happens in the playoffs.

I'm with you. We may not need to add a lot. A top 6 forward and a shutdown dman may be enough for a decent run. Keep in mind that no matter how much any team adds it might not be enough.

 

[bobber]

1. childhood friends. Langdon lived in Kingston prior to moving to Belleville (or vice versa, I forget) and they played together in minor hockey.

2. i have no clue[/QUOT
I read an article about Langdon. Moved to Ontario when he was young.

 

[Mein Yak]

Here are some ideas for some possible trades to bolster us for this season.

ER:
Yetman
Golod


KIT:
Dickerson
Serpa
KIT 2nd 2022
OSH 3rd 2023
OTT 3rd 2024
MIS 3rd 2020
KIT 4th 2021


OS:
Dudas

KIT:
KIT 2nd 2021
BAR 2nd 2024
OTT 3rd 2022
MISS 3rd 2022
KIT 4th 2023
KIT 5th 2024


Our lines for the remainder of the year.

Valade-Damiani-Yantsis
Pinelli-Meireles-Hawel
Golod-Dudas-Yetman
Stepian/Petizian-Langdon-McDonnell/Fishman

Vuks-Sebrango
Mac-Axel
Ville-X/Motew

Ingham


PP1
Would still look the same

PP2
Pinelli-Dudas-Yetman/Golod
Valade-Sebrango

Our penalty kill de would stay the same however for forwards we can rotate between any of the following; Damiani, Dudas, Hawel, Meireles, Petizian, Valade and McDonnell.


You can play each forward line 15 minutes a night. Our 3rd line in this case would be matching up against weaker opponents but you can also have them playing against top lines while you give our 1st or 2nd line a break. By bringing in these 3 forwards we can basically have a more balanced 2nd PP so our first unit does not have to stay out for nearly 2 minutes. Like mentioned earlier by posters, who knows what can happen come time playoffs. We could be out in the 1st round or we can win a mem cup. This same logic can be said the 2021/2022 season when we look to be decent then. In the world of sports you have to live in the present and keep the future in mind. This is why I believe that we should buy this year. What are your thoughts on these trades and what we should be doing in 4 weeks time.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

hopefully today was the unleashing of the Greg Meireles we expected to see from day 1. he’s been solid but the points haven’t been coming in like they were at the end of last year

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

you are correct. here’s the article of him saying he moved to Belleville from Kingston as well

Q&A: Isaac Langdon, Clarkson Recruit - Neutral Zone