Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal part 2

[OneSharpMarble]

Goalfield doing some serious damage control, he's sweating hard.

 

[Goalfield13]

Goalfield doing some serious damage control, he's sweating hard.

Not really lol. I am actually enjoying this. People have been WAITING for a good game from Dach, and I am just giving people what they want. I am no coward.

 

[Andy]

On no, sports fans should be embarrassed for wanting a player on the team they cheer for to do well.

What controversy

 

[Goalfield13]

On no, sports fans should be embarrassed for wanting a player on the team they cheer for to do well.

What controversy

Who said fans should be embarrassed? C'mon, Dach had a good game! No need for strawmans now. You should be on the offensive!

 

[Habs]

Just checked his stats again

 

[Goalfield13]

Just checked his stats again
View attachment 952464

I know. Kotkaniemi has 4 more points lol.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

I don't agree he was improving. He has been up and down all season. There were games where I found he was regressing and playing a lazy and dumb game.


Settle down, bravestar. We are all nobodies on a message board. Do you really think that I think people care what I think? Get a grip,

I don't agree he was improving. He has been up and down all season. There were games where I found he was regressing and playing a lazy and dumb game.


Settle down, bravestar. We are all nobodies on a message board. Do you really think that I think people care what I think? Get a grip, man.

Sure. Up and down but still trending the right way. He’d play a mostly good game but have a bad penalty that would nullify it or a bad play here and there.

Earlier in the year he had the turning radius of a tractor trailer. You don’t think he looks better of late at all?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

This is what I said during the game today:

He’s been slowly but surely improving with nothing to show for it. Hopefully now it comes in bunches.

Same thing applies to Newhook btw. Both have been playing better and not getting rewarded. I really hope those guys start popping points. It's insane that it's taken Newhook this long to get an assist. I've never seen anything like it.

In the words of Pierre Houde: 'C'est pas possible!'

 

[Goalfield13]

Sure. Up and down but still trending the right way. He’d play a mostly good game but have a bad penalty that would nullify it or a bad play here and there.

Earlier in the year he had the turning radius of a tractor trailer. You don’t think he looks better of late at all?

There were incremental improvements, sure, but nothing to get excited about, and many games, he looked terrible, so it balanced out. Low effort. Terrible body language. dumb penalties. offensive blackhole. improved skating? OK. It wasn't enough. This game is also not enough, but we shall see how it goes. I always said I would wait till game 41 and stand by it. I never said I wanted to trade him. I merely stated I would play him in the bottom 6 to get his game back later on. Sure, I had a lot of snide comments in there to have some fun, but I was also hoping he would get his game back. I am still not a fan of his toolset, though, even at the top of his game.

 

[Skip Bayless]

I will no longer tolerate the Kirby Dach slander. You've been warned.

 

[Goalfield13]

I will no longer tolerate the Kirby Dach slander. You've been warned.

I don't think it counts as slander if it's true, though...

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

This is what I said before the game today:

Same thing applies to Newhook btw. Both have been playing better and not getting rewarded. I really hope those guys start popping points. It's insane that it's taken Newhook this long to get an assist. I've never seen anything like it.

In the words of Pierre Houde: 'C'est pas possible!'

I think if Newhook can cut the Matheson out of his game he could be effective.

 

[Goalfield13]

I think if Newhook can cut the Matheson out of his game he could be effective.

Newhook has been super surprising to me. He was so useful last season.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

There were incremental improvements, sure, but nothing to get excited about, and many games, he looked terrible, so it balanced out. Low effort. Terrible body language. dumb penalties. offensive blackhole. improved skating? OK. It wasn't enough. This game is also not enough, but we shall see how it goes. I always said I would wait till game 41 and stand by it. I never said I wanted to trade him. I merely stated I would play him in the bottom 6 to get his game back later on. Sure, I had a lot of snide comments in there to have some fun, but I was also hoping he would get his game back. I am still not a fan of his toolset, though, even at the top of his game.

Don't you think though that players coming back from serious injuries such as this one can have different timelines? I mean, why game 41? Why not game 60 or 82?

You can demand all you want - he's going to play the way he's going to play. And even if he does improve, I still think Montreal will continue to look for more center talent regardless.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I think if Newhook can cut the Matheson out of his game he could be effective.

He's made some terrific plays this year and got squat out of it. He's the modern day Chris Higgins. That's the only other player I've seen so snakebit.

Dach has been snakebit in a different way. He hasn't played well but every mistake is a goal against. It's almost creepy how it's happened. Takes a penalty? Goal against. Makes a bad play? It's in our net. I mean it'd be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

There were incremental improvements, sure, but nothing to get excited about, and many games, he looked terrible, so it balanced out. Low effort. Terrible body language. dumb penalties. offensive blackhole. improved skating? OK. It wasn't enough. This game is also not enough, but we shall see how it goes. I always said I would wait till game 41 and stand by it. I never said I wanted to trade him. I merely stated I would play him in the bottom 6 to get his game back later on. Sure, I had a lot of snide comments in there to have some fun, but I was also hoping he would get his game back. I am still not a fan of his toolset, though, even at the top of his game.

Ah the snide was fun I see. I thought the snide was just jerky because it wasn’t even funny snide.

But this all sounds reasonable. I just didn’t get the whole being a dick about it. But whatever

 

[Goalfield13]

Don't you think though that players coming back from serious injuries such as this one can have different timelines? I mean, why game 41? Why not game 60 or 82?

You can demand all you want - he's going to play the way he's going to play. And even if he does improve, I still think Montreal will continue to look for more center talent.

We have had this conversation a million times, and I don't are to go in circles with you again. If he wasn't 100%, he should not have played in the top 6. He is and was costing us playing where he was playing. You can disagree all you want. We can just agree to disagree. Game 41 is 50% of the season.

Ah the snide was fun I see. I thought the snide was just jerky because it wasn’t even funny snide.

But this all sounds reasonable. I just didn’t get the whole being a dick about it. But whatever

The snide wasn't supposed to be funny to you. The snide was there to counterbalance the overtly pro Dach side that put blinders on to everything negative and made "improved skating" after every game a meme.

 

[Habs]

I will no longer tolerate the Kirby Dach slander. You've been warned.

What about @OldCraig71 is he still fair game?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

We have had this conversation a million times, and I don't are to go in circles with you again. If he wasn't 100%, he should not have played in the top 6. He is and was costing us playing where he was playing. You can disagree all you want. We can just agree to disagree. Game 41 is 50% of the season.

Costing us what? We weren't a playoff team to begin with, even if he'd played as we expected.

You keep talking about how he's stealing ice... from who? Dvorak? Seriously, if this was a contending team, I'd agree with you... but we're not. We do not have a player who can step in there anyways. This has been said over and over and I still haven't heard a decent response on it.

Players get hurt and they aren't always the same when they come back. Sometimes you need to nurse them along. And cutting their ice to 5 mins a game doesn't help. Why do you think Dach's improving as he has been? Do you think it has anything to do with the fact that they've held a long term view with his recovery and continued to play him?

Think about it.

 

[Goalfield13]

Costing us what? We weren't a playoff team to begin with, even if he'd played as we expected.

You keep talking about how he's stealing ice... from who? Seriously, if this was a contending team, I'd agree with you... but we're not.

Players get hurt and they aren't always the same when they come back. Sometimes you need to nurse them along. And cutting their ice to 5 mins a game doesn't help. Why do you think Dach's improving as he has been? Do you think it has to do with the fact that they've held a long term view with his recovery and continued to play him?

Think about it.

I don't care about stealing ice from anyone, I care about players EARNING their ice, and he certainly hasn't done that. That's the problem I have with you pro Dach people. Winning matters. Creating a winning culture matters. You don't become a contender by just giving players premiere spots. No one else on this team has been treated like this. It sets a bad example.

Edit: and yes, I do believe cutting ice-time to get them back slowly is the best way to go. No, I don't believe he has been improving all that much. Like I said, improved skating is nice, but his lack of effort, poor attitude (shown by bad body language) and stupid penalties don't scream improvement to me. If he had a strong effort every game, I would have a much higher opinion of his play even if the results weren't there.

 

[OldCraig71]

He's made some terrific plays this year and got squat out of it. He's the modern day Chris Higgins. That's the only other player I've seen so snakebit.

Dach has been snakebit in a different way. He hasn't played well but every mistake is a goal against. It's almost creepy how it's happened. Takes a penalty? Goal against. Makes a bad play? It's in our net. I mean it'd be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

He had a good game today, and maybe he can build on that. It makes a massive difference when the second-line center can step up and take the pressure off Suzuki's line.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I don't care about stealing ice from anyone, I care about players EARNING their ice, and he certainly hasn't done that.

But Dvorak has?

You have to have a very, very short term view to hold the view that Dach's got to earn it considering this roster.

We got Dach and all he did was improve. Go back to this thread and read about how we thought about him before his injury. We were all stoked. Then the guy got hurt. He was our 2nd line center of the future until that injury. There's nobody there to replace him so what's the problem with letting him recover as we go?

Again, if somebody else was there... then cool, different story. But that's not the case.

And please don't bring up Evans. He's doing well where he is. We shouldn't touch him. The reason he's successful is because he's in the right chair.

Btw, the 'earning thing' is how we ran this team for ten years. It was a God awful strategy. MSL came in and immediately gave CC first line minutes and he immediatly paced for 50 goals. Did he 'earn' it by scoring one goal in half a year? No. But MSL was smart enough to put him where he should be.

That's the problem I have with you pro Dach people. Winning matters. Creating a winning culture matters. You don't become a contender by just giving players premiere spots. No one else on this team has been treated like this. It sets a bad example.

You know what sets a bad example? Quitting on a player when he gets hurt. Telling a player to pound sand after a year of excrutiating rehab. You think THAT's better?

And f*** this stupid narrative about culture. The culture changes as you add players and as they mature. Joe Sakic, Steve Yzerman, Mario Lemieux... all came into losing cultures and won mutliple cups. Why? Because their teams added players to help them.

If you want to build a strong culture, don't quit on players when they get hurt. Stick with them when times are tough and nurse them along. All this stupid nonsense about sending this guy to waivers was embarrassing.

Look, I don't know more than you or anyone here as to what's going to happen with this guy. But if it doesn't work out, at least we can say that we did all we could to try to help him recover. That's going to mean a lot not just to Dach, but his teammates too. THAT's how you build a winning culture. That's how you build a team where players want to stay.

 

[Goalfield13]

But Dvorak has?

You have to have a very, very short term view to hold this view.

We got Dach and all he did was improve. Go back to this thread and read about how we thought about him before his injury. We were all stoked. Then the guy got hurt. He was our 2nd line center of the future until that injury. There's nobody there to replace him so what's the problem with letting him recover as we go?

Again, if somebody else was there... then cool, different story. But that's not the case.

You know what sets a bad example? Quitting on a player when he gets hurt. Telling a player to pound sand after a year of excrutiating rehab. You think THAT's better?

And f*** this stupid narrative about culture. The culture changes as you add players and as they mature. Joe Sakic, Steve Yzerman, Mario Lemieux... all cam into losing cultures and won mutliple cups. Why? Because their teams added players to help them.

If you want to build a strong culture, don't quit on players when they get hurt. Stick with them when times are tough and nurse them along. All this stupid nonsense about sending this guy to waivers was embarrassing.

Look, I don't know more than you or anyone here as to what's going to happen with this guy. But if it doesn't work out, at least we can say that we did all we could to try to help him recover. That's going to mean a lot not just to Dach, but his teammates too. THAT's how you build a winning culture. That's how you build a team where players want to stay.

Who is quitting on a player? I merely said to put him in the bottom 6 while he finds his game again. He would have had no pressure to produce in that spot and could have easier match-ups. Did I say trade him or shoot him out of a cannon? I never once said to put him on waivers ever. Stop making these ridiculous arguments that I never made.

Why are you mentioning Dvorak? How about Evans, who has been far superior at both ends of the ice? Funny how you ignore him and instead focus on a easy target. Dvorak has been at least serviceable this year.

You are talking about a long-term view, but you are the one being short-sighted. Why not let him play bottom 6 in the short run so he can get his game back later on in the season to play top 6 again? I bet he has had a wonderful time finding his game in the top 6 this year. No stress at all.

Building a strong culture is making player accountable and putting them in the best situation to succeed. We do not agree on how to get the player there, but we both want the player to be in the top 6 playing a key role by the end of the season. You just want instant gratification. I want to do it properly. Most teams play players in easier roles when coming back from injuries. It isn't an uncommon practice.

 

[Rapala]

Hopefully this kick starts his season

His skating is what will kick start his season. The signs were there that it's coming back.
More time to make plays he's going to make plays.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

I don't care about stealing ice from anyone, I care about players EARNING their ice, and he certainly hasn't done that. That's the problem I have with you pro Dach people. Winning matters. Creating a winning culture matters. You don't become a contender by just giving players premiere spots. No one else on this team has been treated like this. It sets a bad example.

Edit: and yes, I do believe cutting ice-time to get them back slowly is the best way to go. No, I don't believe he has been improving all that much. Like I said, improved skating is nice, but his lack of effort, poor attitude (shown by bad body language) and stupid penalties don't scream improvement to me. If he had a strong effort every game, I would have a much higher opinion of his play even if the results weren't there.

Whoa whoa…you Dach people??

Now you’re bringing RACE into this?!?!