Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal part 2

[Habs]

Mike Cammalleri was coming off a 39 goal 83 point season and his 6m cap hit was 10.5% of the cap, which today would be equivalent of 9.3m.

There's also players like Kovalev and now Laine, sure we didn't sign them as UFAs but we very much needed the cap space to keep them. If we trade for the UFA superstar and then sign them before they hit the market is that a distinction that matters?

There’s good reasons to spend wisely , I just don’t think this franchise cares much. Molson didn’t bat an eye at the Gally, Weber , Anderson contracts etc , and let numbnuts do whatever he wanted.

 

[DAChampion]

That's a wild take. He can provide for his family whether he maximizes his next contract or gives us a discount. If he's been smart with his money then he's probably already setup his family with more then enough to be set for life.

And even if his ethical responsibility was money and not happiness, which it isn't, then he should actually sign a contract with the Habs ASAP because one injury or cold streak can derail his UFA payday, so getting something locked in now is the more responsible thing to do.

If the Habs have a good offer for Evans on the table then yes he should sign it. I don't know that they do.

 

[DAChampion]

My point was more about how if Dach doesn’t turn it around this season then the acquisition will have turned sour, rather than to speculate whatever comes after this contract.

Dach and the Habs are victims of circumstance.

There is abundant hope he turns it around this season but he has 1pt in his last 15gp or something crazy like that. A contending team would’ve seen their season crater if they had relied on him. I don’t think Hughes will run that risk going forward.

I think you're right in general though personally I don't care. I value process over results when evaluating individual trades, because I think of the issue in terms of probabilities.

Hughes traded from a position of strength to build at a position of need. It makes sense even if injuries derail the process.

There’s good reasons to spend wisely , I just don’t think this franchise cares much. Molson didn’t bat an eye at the Gally, Weber , Anderson contracts etc , and let numbnuts do whatever he wanted.

I think Molson was just giving Bergevin a free hand.

 

[rahad]

Both Gally and Anderson made a comeback this season. Same for Armia last season. We should give him one more season before giving up on him.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

I'm active, you are mistaken and misguided.

Drouin had a lot of defenders in spite of having fewer tools, less talent, and a higher cost, than Dach.

Gallagher was appreciated up to the Finals run, approximately.

Drouin was a better C than Dach though

I also think it’s foolish that people are saying Dach is irrelevant for the rebuild and that they will be looking for 2C replacements regardless

OBVIOUSLY if Dach didn’t suck we wouldn’t need to look for a 2C, and he is the biggest black hole on the roster. Everyone is playing better lately except for him, if he wasn’t terrible, we would be in the mix this year, and we would look a lot better for next year too.

 

[Sorinth]

There’s good reasons to spend wisely , I just don’t think this franchise cares much. Molson didn’t bat an eye at the Gally, Weber , Anderson contracts etc , and let numbnuts do whatever he wanted.

Eh, it's impossible to know whether Molson questioned any of those moves, and in any case it's not like we actually want the owner to get involved.

 

[Kennedys]

That management showed a lot of patience for Desharnais and Drouin.

DD was a 45-60 points guy in his prime. Dach is on pace for 20 pts.

 

[tiger_80]

How come you guys only have posts in English. I am studying French and was hoping to read some hockey discussion in French.

 

[Kennedys]

How come you guys only have posts in English. I am studying French and was hoping to read some hockey discussion in French.

HF is an english board. Maudit tabarnak !

 

[Victoire HuGo]

Drouin was a better C than Dach though

I also think it’s foolish that people are saying Dach is irrelevant for the rebuild and that they will be looking for 2C replacements regardless

OBVIOUSLY if Dach didn’t suck we wouldn’t need to look for a 2C, and he is the biggest black hole on the roster. Everyone is playing better lately except for him, if he wasn’t terrible, we would be in the mix this year, and we would look a lot better for next year too.

Based on what lol? Faceoffs ability? He had 46 points while seeing 3:16 mins on PP and a lot of offensive zone starts. He was also -28 so I think that's just being dishonest.

 

[Artaud]

How come you guys only have posts in English. I am studying French and was hoping to read some hockey discussion in French.

Half the board is Anglo, so French is used for comedic purposes only amongst the Québécois.

If you want great Hockey's Future style content in French, I recommend the podcast Processus with prospect aficionado Snake Boisvert and journalist Mathias Brunet. Both are well-spoken and knowledgeable.

 

[crazyd74]

Both Gally and Anderson made a comeback this season. Same for Armia last season. We should give him one more season before giving up on him.

It's not like we have any other alternatives at C. Evans, who might be settling into his prime years is not sustainable as a 2C. Newhook, clearly not an option also. Dvorak is a textbook center, but his offense has tapped out. Plays seems to disappear when he is on the ice.

Otherwise, in the pipeline, aside from Hage, we do not have any real hopeful to slot as a 2C. And if - big if - Hage can crack the 2025-26 lineup and contribute at 2C, in the interim we are left with the same old naggy roster injury of the past 20 years....no big bodied 2C.

This is two more seasons with a dysfunctional roster, two more years of mileage for Suzuki and Caufield at then 27 and 25 respectfully. The window will still be there, but if they are not in the "mix" by then, that window will be swinging more in the opposite direction.

So for now, Dach and Dvorak are the better options. Next year, Dach will be the only option. Unless we can draft a stud C in this years draft.

This leads to another conclusion, you can't let Evans go to the market. Our depth will be atrocious if he leaves.

 

[rahad]

It's not like we have any other alternatives at C. Evans, who might be settling into his prime years is not sustainable as a 2C. Newhook, clearly not an option also. Dvorak is a textbook center, but his offense has tapped out. Plays seems to disappear when he is on the ice.

Otherwise, in the pipeline, aside from Hage, we do not have any real hopeful to slot as a 2C. And if - big if - Hage can crack the 2025-26 lineup and contribute at 2C, in the interim we are left with the same old naggy roster injury of the past 20 years....no big bodied 2C.

This is two more seasons with a dysfunctional roster, two more years of mileage for Suzuki and Caufield at then 27 and 25 respectfully. The window will still be there, but if they are not in the "mix" by then, that window will be swinging more in the opposite direction.

So for now, Dach and Dvorak are the better options. Next year, Dach will be the only option. Unless we can draft a stud C in this years draft.

This leads to another conclusion, you can't let Evans go to the market. Our depth will be atrocious if he leaves.

Yeah, I agreed with you. Hage won't be NHL ready next year. After his 2 years in University, Is possible he start in the 3C in his first rookie season. Is kinda crazy that Dach busting could make our rebuild last longer. We need Evans for the next 3 years. You can trade him in his last year of contract when Beck and Hage are ready to play in our top 9.
Suzuki
Dach/Hage/2025 draft/trade/ufa
Beck
Evans (in 2028)

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Based on what lol? Faceoffs ability? He had 46 points while seeing 3:16 mins on PP and a lot of offensive zone starts. He was also -28 so I think that's just being dishonest.

Based on actually playing C for an entire season lmfao.

Quick math: what's worse? -28 in 77 games or -24 in 34 games?

Dach is on pace for the worst +/- season since the 70s. No joke.

 

[Playmaker09]

Again, don't even look at Kirby's statline until 18 months post ACL/MCL surgery (April 2025).

A success this season will be measured in games played and anything else has always been wishful thinking.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

How come you guys only have posts in English. I am studying French and was hoping to read some hockey discussion in French.

This is an English only forum. Sorry.

 

[Victoire HuGo]

Based on actually playing C for an entire season lmfao.

Quick math: what's worse? -28 in 77 games or -24 in 34 games?

Dach is on pace for the worst +/- season since the 70s. No joke.

Drouin was forced to play center due to lack of options and stubbornness, that's not a valid argument. Season is young enough for the +/- to improve. He was -2 two years ago.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Based on actually playing C for an entire season lmfao.

Quick math: what's worse? -28 in 77 games or -24 in 34 games?

Dach is on pace for the worst +/- season since the 70s. No joke.

Quick math: what’s more irrelevant than the +/- stat?

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Drouin was forced to play center due to lack of options and stubbornness, that's not a valid argument. Season is young enough for the +/- to improve. He was -2 two years ago.

And Dach isn't play C despite a desperate need

Quick math: what’s more irrelevant than the +/- stat?

Dach's performance.

You don't see any correlation with Dach's stats and his on ice play? It doesn't tell the whole story but it helps corroborate what we are seeing nightly

 

[Rapala]

Again, don't even look at Kirby's statline until 18 months post ACL/MCL surgery (April 2025).

A success this season will be measured in games played and anything else has always been wishful thinking.

True but his skating has come around enough to the point where he needs to start producing and becoming somewhat effective.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

And Dach isn't play C despite a desperate need


You don't see any correlation with Dach's stats and his on ice play?

I think Dach has had a brutal year. I would not use +/- to make the case against him. Lane Hutson is currently-16.

We all know Dach has sucked. He knows it too. There are tons of better stats to use - but honestly they aren’t needed. We all know it.

He’s coming off a brutal injury. I don’t care much about this year. What I’m more concerned about Is if he can ever recover fully.

Fortunately, we have time to figure that out. There’s no urgency to get rid of him.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

I think Dach has had a brutal year. I would not use +/- to make the case against him. Lane Hutson is currently-16.

Purely looking at +/- is silly, but that's not what I'm doing. We have both seen all of the games and what has happened on the ice. +/- IS useful with context.

Hutson and Dach play for one of the worst teams in the league and are both brutal defensively.

Hutson is an undersized rookie who was always going to be subpar defensively, and he's playing 20+ minutes a game. Having a bad +/- makes sense.

Dach is on the 2nd line getting 16 minutes a game with 56% offensive zone starts. He gets the easier matchups. There's no way his +/- should be that bad unless he is having an awful year.

Some of it can be chalked up to luck, it seems like every Dach turnover results in a goal against these days and it feels like he can't catch a break. Still, if he played better, his +/- would be better.

 

[Playmaker09]

True but his skating has come around enough to the point where he needs to start producing and becoming somewhat effective.

Depends on exactly which ligaments were torn (in Dach's case ACL+MCL is pretty bad) but pretty much any doctor would give you a general timeline of 9 months to return and 18-24 to be back to 100% (best case). Dach has the benefit of being young when it happened, so fingers crossed, but the player you're seeing now is almost certainly not 100%.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Purely looking at +/- is silly, but that's not what I'm doing. We have both seen all of the games and what has happened on the ice. +/- IS useful with context.

Hutson and Dach play for one of the worst teams in the league and are both brutal defensively.

Hutson is an undersized rookie who was always going to be subpar defensively, and he's playing 20+ minutes a game. Having a bad +/- makes sense.

Dach is on the 2nd line getting 16 minutes a game with 56% offensive zone starts. He gets the easier matchups. There's no way his +/- should be that bad unless he is having an awful year.

Some of it can be chalked up to luck, it seems like every Dach turnover results in a goal against these days and it feels like he can't catch a break. Still, if he played better, his +/- would be better.

+/- sucks as a stat. Use something else.

And like I said, you don’t even need to do that. We’re all in agreement with you that he’s played poorly this year.

 

[Andy]

Quick math: what’s more irrelevant than the +/- stat?

I always love Ovi’s 51 goal season while being -35.

Dach’s plus/minus is certainly atrocious, but it’s a net stat. While it points to bad defensive play, it’s more of a measure of how poor his offensive output has been. He’s not picking up pluses because he’s not creating offence, nor has been picking pluses from his line mates producing offense