Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal part 2

[OldCraig71]

That management showed a lot of patience for Desharnais and Drouin.

LOL but that had more to do with staying on the good side of the media and you know it. Lars Eller didn't get that treatment and neither did PK Subban.

 

[DAChampion]

LOL but that had more to do with staying on the good side of the media and you know it. Lars Eller didn't get that treatment and neither did PK Subban.

I think that was Therrien's personal preferences, actually.

Also Bouillon.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It was fine early in the season when everyone on the team sucked, but most of the players have found their game and are playing well now. Suzuki is producing like a legit #1, Caufield and Slaf form a legit #1 line. The bottom 6 is on fire, Monty is playing well, the defense has tightened up without Barron.

It sucks but Dach is the main problem holding the team back right now, if we had a real 2nd line we would be so much better as a team. Of course we shouldn't waive him but it is frustrating seeing our potential as a team held back so drastically.

We're essentially wasting 2 seasons because of Dach, but maybe it will all be for the best if we get a bonus tank year and he bounces back next season.

Last year it was okay. Part of the rebuild and in the long ru. It actually helped us. This year it sucks. I was hoping to see progression largely because of Dach’s return and it hasn’t worked out.

Again though, long term it doesn’t hurry us much. We weren’t winning anything anyway. It was a devastating injury and it’s obviously taking longer than we realized it would.

In the big picture, we can no longer count on Dach to be the 2nd line center we thought he’d be. That doesn’t mean we should cut bait but we have to assume that he’s not going to fill that role. So… hang onto him and look for talent. Best case scenario, we find a replacement and Dach finds his game. Suddenly we have the center depth we were hoping for.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I think that was Therrien's personal preferences, actually.

Also Bouillon.

The problem is also nobody showed a level of play high enough for even stupid therrien to be forced to play somebody over Davey. That's on management. The only guy was Pleki and I love the guy but he also had his warts.

In hindsight the two guys I wanted them to play more was Galchenyuk and Eller but look what they became , Chucky lost his mind and Larry became probably the best third line C in the game for 2-3 years in Washington.

The fact nobody inside the organisation could dethrone DD is pathetic and the fact we couldn't get anybody outside the org to dethrone him is an indictment on everybody involved management to coaching , yuck what dark days man . I hate that era

 

[OldCraig71]

I think that was Therrien's personal preferences, actually.

Also Bouillon.

It was a failure of epic proportions not to have a good one-two punch at center with the core he inherited and they put personal longevity ahead of prioritizing winning. Bergevin was so shitty at his job that he wouldn't trade Ryan Poehling for Ryan O'Reilly, a move that would have made us a cup contender. His years were truly the "Wasted Years" and not the kind referenced by one of my favorite bands of all time, Iron Maiden.

 

[River Meadow]

That management showed a lot of patience for Desharnais and Drouin.

Gee,

I wonder why.........

Couldn't be because they were des petits gars de chez nous.

 

[OldCraig71]

The problem is also nobody showed a level of play high enough for even stupid therrien to be forced to play somebody over Davey. That's on management. The only guy was Pleki and I love the guy but he also had his warts.

In hindsight the two guys I wanted them to play more was Galchenyuk and Eller but look what they became , Chucky lost his mind and Larry became probably the best third line C in the game for 2-3 years in Washington.

The fact nobody inside the organisation could dethrone DD is pathetic and the fact we couldn't get anybody outside the org to dethrone him is an indictment on everybody involved management to coaching , yuck what dark days man . I hate that era

@DAChampion is correct though, they did coddle DD and Drou. I used to joke that if we traded for Crosby, he would have second-line center duties behind Desharnais. God, that was such a dark time to be a Habs fan. I'm not over it yet.

 

[Naslundforever]

Gee,

I wonder why.........

Couldn't be because they were des petits gars de chez nous.

Mostly shows me when you don’t have a plan B at center you talk about patience and being resilient lol.

It’s the most important position in the game (not counting goalies), it’s a salary cap era and it’s been breaking the habs for most of my adulthood. And I’m not young, life hack: eat your orange flavored metamucil before you brush your teeth or it tastes aweful.

 

[ReHabs]

“it’s too early to call it a bad trade”

Fellas, we are through the better part of his 4 year contract and his combined production has been less than 50 pts. This is bad and there is nowhere to go but up.

We traded for an injury prone player who felt jaded (and played badly) in his first post-injury year with CHI and now we’re seeing it repeat exactly the same way.

The best thing that could happen is he shakes this malaise off THIS season and gives us a glimmer of hope for next season as a 8th or 7th top6 option.

If he ends the season without elevating his performance, I’m not sure we will retain him come the time of a contract extension. He’ll seek guaranteed top dollar (given his fragility) and we’ll be rightfully cautious against the downside risk of repeating this horror-show.

Therefore, if you track the trajectory of the moving parts, and until he shows a glimpse of sustained progress, this has been a sour trade.

 

[Dichow Stopper]

My prediction : Dach will find his game and play at 0.8 PPG until the end of the season.

Just wait and see, there is enough crow for everyone!

 

[Le Barron de HF]

“it’s too early to call it a bad trade”

Fellas, we are through the better part of his 4 year contract and his combined production has been less than 50 pts. This is bad and there is nowhere to go but up.

We traded for an injury prone player who felt jaded (and played badly) in his first post-injury year with CHI and now we’re seeing it repeat exactly the same way.

The best thing that could happen is he shakes this malaise off THIS season and gives us a glimmer of hope for next season as a 8th or 7th top6 option.

If he ends the season without elevating his performance, I’m not sure we will retain him come the time of a contract extension. He’ll seek guaranteed top dollar (given his fragility) and we’ll be rightfully cautious against the downside risk of repeating this horror-show.

Therefore, if you track the trajectory of the moving parts, and until he shows a glimpse of sustained progress, this has been a sour trade.

Some were calling the toffoli trade a bad one and 3 years later, it's looking better. How about we do the same on this move? Especially when Dach is slowly making signs of improvement?

 

[Naslundforever]

My prediction : Dach will find his game and play at 0.8 PPG until the end of the season.

Just wait and see, there is enough crow for everyone!

It’s the waiting and seeing him kill the 2nd line until then that has most people unimpressed (that’s on the org and coach), not his potential comeback itself. Not sure what crow peeps would eat.

Everyone rooting he goes from a rehabing Pouliot/Drouin hybrid on his best shifts (and their worse) to Lecavalier for sure.

 

[ReHabs]

Some were calling the toffoli trade a bad one and 3 years later, it's looking better. How about we do the same on this move? Especially when Dach is slowly making signs of improvement?

What do you mean “it’s looking better”? The Habs gave up a NHLer who provided a 70pt season to Calgary and also brought back further assets and in exchange the Habs have a 23 year old rookie bottom6 player to show for it. I’m not interested in arguing about the Toffoli trade anyway, even if Mešar looks far from the NHL right now.

Dach “is slowly making signs of improvement” okay, even if true, that doesn’t change my argument at all, does it?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The problem is also nobody showed a level of play high enough for even stupid therrien to be forced to play somebody over Davey.

That’s absolutely false. DD went like 20 games without a point and kept his job. Chuck was better in every way and was no worse defensively than DD but was STILL regulated to the third. Dumbest shit ever.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It was a failure of epic proportions not to have a good one-two punch at center with the core he inherited and they put personal longevity ahead of prioritizing winning. Bergevin was so shitty at his job that he wouldn't trade Ryan Poehling for Ryan O'Reilly, a move that would have made us a cup contender. His years were truly the "Wasted Years" and not the kind referenced by one of my favorite bands of all time, Iron Maiden.

Jagr wanted to come here as a UFA. Instead we got Boiluillion, Prust, Shaw….

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Some were calling the toffoli trade a bad one and 3 years later, it's looking better. How about we do the same on this move? Especially when Dach is slowly making signs of improvement?

Right. Even if the trade doesn’t work out, that does not mean it was a bad trade. You can make a good trade and still have a bad outcome.

If you trade David Desharnais for Crosby it’s a great trade whether Crosby gets hit by a bus or not. Injuries are not foreseeable. The Habs did their homework on the wrist and determined it was a risk worth taking. So far that’s been proven to not be an issue.

You can’t predict an ACL/MCL tear. That can happen to any player.

 

[ReHabs]

It’s the waiting and seeing him kill the 2nd line until then that has most people unimpressed (that’s on the org and coach), not his potential comeback itself. Not sure what crow peeps would eat.

100%

Everyone rooting he goes from a rehabing Pouliot/Drouin hybrid on his best shifts (and their worse) to Lecavalier for sure.

Benoit Pouliot!! Oh my gosh.

 

[ryan callahan]

Terrible hockey player who doesn't try to boot. Embarrassment to the CH.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

What do you mean “it’s looking better”? The Habs gave up a NHLer who provided a 70pt season to Calgary and also brought back further assets and in exchange the Habs have a 23 year old rookie bottom6 player to show for it. I’m not interested in arguing about the Toffoli trade anyway, even if Mešar looks far from the NHL right now.

Dach “is slowly making signs of improvement” okay, even if true, that doesn’t change my argument at all, does it?

The Toffoli trade was criticized for trading him too quickly and not getting enough back with the term he had. Yet one can argue MTL got the best return out of CGY and NJD. Also noteworthy that was after he produced better numbers out of Montreal and the aforementioned 70 pts season. A 1st is a 1st. If Evans is traded for a 1st and we pick a bust that means it was a bad trade? Things don't work that way. Especially when talking about trading players over 30 or close to it.

My point for Dach is that if he returns to form in 20 games, we're okay with just pivoting back and stop saying it was a bad trade? I don't understand the need from some to make premature takes Especially when the player concerned has been making progress. What's exactly the point?

 

[Goalfield13]

The Toffoli trade was criticized for trading him too quickly and not getting enough back with the term he had. Yet one can argue MTL got the best return out of CGY and NJD. Also noteworthy that was after he produced better numbers out of Montreal and the aforementioned 70 pts season. A 1st is a 1st. If Evans is traded for a 1st and we pick a bust that means it was a bad trade? Things don't work that way. Especially when talking about trading players over 30 or close to it.

My point for Dach is that if he returns to form in 20 games, we're okay with just pivoting back and stop saying it was a bad trade? I don't understand the need from some to make premature takes Especially when the player concerned has been making progress. What's exactly the point?

I actually don't care about the trade cost anymore. Everyone, including me, thought it was a good gamble at the time. The problem is, the same people who say it was a good gamble don't understand that labelling it a gamble means there was a chance to come up short. It was never a slam dunk, and sometimes, you need to cut your losses. I am not saying that time is now as we still have time, but we can't have infinite patience with a player when we have other players coming up soon to challenge for that spot. Our rebuild never has and never will hinge on the success of Kirby Dach.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

I actually don't care about the trade cost anymore. Everyone, including me, thought it was a good gamble at the time. The problem is, the same people who say it was a good gamble don't understand that labelling it a gamble means there was a chance to come up short. It was never a slam dunk, and sometimes, you need to cut your losses. I am not saying that time is now as we still have time, but we can't have infinite patience with a player when we have other players coming up soon to challenge for that spot. Our rebuild never has and never will hinge on the success of Kirby Dach.

We can and likely will wait out this season though, unless another team has a similar player in a similar situation and we do a Latendresse/Pouliot style swap. Anaheim with Zegras and Buffalo with Cozens come to mind, we’d likely have to add in either scenario though.

In the meantime I’d like to see Evans get time with Laine and Heineman to form a “2nd” line. Evans and Heineman are work horses and can likely generate 5v5 with Laine.

Dach can play with Gallagher / Anderson and try to get his shit together.

The likely internal replacement for Dach is Hage, Demidov being moved to C, or our #1 overall pick in the upcoming draft. So with that said, we aren’t holding anyone back per se right now.

 

[Habby4Life]

We can and likely will wait out this season though, unless another team has a similar player in a similar situation and we do a Latendresse/Pouliot style swap. Anaheim with Zegras and Buffalo with Cozens come to mind, we’d likely have to add in either scenario though.

In the meantime I’d like to see Evans get time with Laine and Heineman to form a “2nd” line. Evans and Heineman are work horses and can likely generate 5v5 with Laine.

Dach can play with Gallagher / Anderson and try to get his shit together.

The likely internal replacement for Dach is Hage, Demidov being moved to C, or our #1 overall pick in the upcoming draft. So with that said, we aren’t holding anyone back per se right now.

Hage may be the internal replacement but he isn’t going to be that guy next year. In fact, people are high on him but he is far from a blue chip can’t miss prospect.

If they don’t find a legit 2c this summer and fix the horrid D core they will be out of the mix by the end of November. They need to bring in legit quality vets at those two positions not to mention fix the bottom six.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

Hage may be the internal replacement but he isn’t going to be that guy next year. In fact, people are high on him but he is far from a blue chip can’t miss prospect.

If they don’t find a legit 2c this summer and fix the horrid D core they will be out of the mix by the end of November. They need to bring in legit quality vets at those two positions not to mention fix the bottom six.

Agreed.

That’s why before we make any rash decisions on Evans I’d like to see him play with Laine and fill in that 2C spot for a bit. If he can produce what he has to date or maybe even more?

He may end up being our best internal option for the next couple years.

 

[OldCraig71]

Jagr wanted to come here as a UFA. Instead we got Boiluillion, Prust, Shaw….

Dwight King, Steve Ott and Andreas Martinsen were a few more moves to address needs lol.

 

[ReHabs]

I don't understand the need from some to make premature takes Especially when the player concerned has been making progress. What's exactly the point?

Into his third season with the Habs Dach has collected a combined 50 pts. He’s suffered at least two notable injuries (one medium, one major). He’s been very slow to recover from his latest one.

Even his biggest backers admit that the Habs would be foolish to pencil him in as a long term option in the top6.

It’s a sour situation. There’s nothing premature about observing the situation: Dach gets shovelled 15ish mins a night and has 9pts so far this season. It’s bad.

The Toffoli stuff is really irrelevant — I never brought it up. Evaluating trades after the fact happens all the time anyway.