Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal part 2

[Theodore450]

Blows my mind why we couldn’t just wait out bad contracts and draft well for 3-5 years. Instead we needed to speed it up by collecting other teams trash.

 

[Goalfield13]

Blows my mind why we couldn’t just wait out bad contracts and draft well for 3-5 years. Instead we needed to speed it up by collecting other teams trash.

Yep, I said as much in the post-game thread. Dach, Newhook and Barron were supposed to speed up the rebuild. We traded Lehkonen away for Barron and a second. Makes me want to puke.

 

[The Great Weal]

He's starting to come around - using plus/minus to make a point is pretty silly. Which one of the goals against last night were his fault?

Matheson passing it to the other team for a breakaway?

He had nothing to do with those minuses but he gets them because Matheson was allowed to suck ass with impunity.

What part of his game is starting to come around that is reassuring for him to be the 2C? He's not doing anything offensively and is horrible defensively. If expectations are now for him to be a 3rd line checking player then I can agree that him getting involved physically more often now is a good sign, but that is not the player we wanted when we went after him.

Also yes you can't blame him for every single minus as per the Matheson turnover example you brought up, but how about dissecting every single minus he's received this season? I mean everyone else on that unit also received a minus so it's not like it was only Dach that got his stats hurt by a stupid Matheson play. Yet he's still the worst plus/minus in the league without hard minutes or matchups. Can't blame Matheson and others for that.

 

[WeThreeKings]

What part of his game is starting to come around that is reassuring for him to be the 2C? He's not doing anything offensively and is horrible defensively. If expectations are now for him to be a 3rd line checking player then I can agree that him getting involved physically more often now is a good sign, but that is not the player we wanted when we went after him.

Also yes you can't blame him for every single minus as per the Matheson turnover example you brought up, but how about dissecting every single minus he's received this season? I mean everyone else on that unit also received a minus so it's not like it was only Dach that got his stats hurt by a stupid Matheson play. Yet he's still the worst plus/minus in the league without hard minutes or matchups. Can't blame Matheson and others for that.

He's carrying the puck into traffic with more confidence, he's making more of the high end passes we've seen in the past, he's getting to the net with authority more often and starting shit in and around the net.

Those are the things that can make him a 2C, when that confidence comes in what his identity is and he drives the net more, him shooting more will open up even further.

He's had some atrocious moments defensively, especially at the beginning, but lately he is getting minuses even when he is playing the right way and defending the right way. It's just a way of saying, his plus/minus is bad but it looks a lot worse when sometimes it's other people doing batshit crazy things and you happen to be on the ice with that happening. Not every minus is created equal. Lately his game scores have been consistently pretty strong, so his advanced analytics are creeping up too, we know when he's on his game, the possession game is strong.

His game is slowly upticking, it might be a slow burn rather than everything clicking.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

People wrote off Heineman. Now they’re clamouring for him to be in the top 6.

Caufield was finally showing his REAL colours last year and he was a net negative not even a top 6er and we just had to deal with it. Now he’s one of the top goal scorers in the league and near a PPG.

Slaf’s a bum not a bum and now a bum again maybe kind of we’ll see what he does next game even though he probably has a very similar ppg to Rantanen at the same age. And compares very favourably production wise to other young stars in the league.

Things can change real fast. It’s not like he’d be some freakish outlier if he took another 30 games or so to get it back. It happens ALL THE TIME lol.

If Hughes traded him as many want to like right this second, you’d freak out if he got it back and it would be ‘why did we only wait 20 games?!?!’ lolol. Like have an ounce of self awareness haha Jesus.

 

[WeThreeKings]

People wrote off Heineman. Now they’re clamouring for him to be in the top 6.

Caufield was finally showing his REAL colours last year and he was a net negative not even a top 6er and we just had to deal with it. Now he’s one of the top goal scorers in the league and near a PPG.

Slaf’s a bum not a bum and now a bum again maybe kind of we’ll see what he does next game even though he probably has a very similar ppg to Rantanen at the same age. And compares very favourably production wise to other young stars in the league.

Things can change real fast. It’s not like he’d be some freakish outlier if he took another 30 games or so to get it back. It happens ALL THE TIME lol.

If Hughes traded him as many want to like right this second, you’d freak out if he got it back and it would be ‘why did we only wait 20 games?!?!’ lolol. Like have an ounce of self awareness haha Jesus.

Preach.

 

[Tabarouette]

People wrote off Heineman. Now they’re clamouring for him to be in the top 6.

whomst

no thanks, love him, that's a perfect bottom 6 player

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

Yep, I said as much in the post-game thread. Dach, Newhook and Barron were supposed to speed up the rebuild. We traded Lehkonen away for Barron and a second. Makes me want to puke.

Dach, Newhook and Barron weren't supposed to speed up the rebuild. They were brought in because our prospects around their age sucked ass and it made more sense to try to add closer to ready NHL talent instead of stocking up on picks which we already had a ton of.

Hughes also brought in Heineman who is much younger and plays similar to Lehkonen. He's on pace for 20 goals in his first full year despite playing 4th line minutes.

 

[417]

People wrote off Heineman. Now they’re clamouring for him to be in the top 6.

Caufield was finally showing his REAL colours last year and he was a net negative not even a top 6er and we just had to deal with it. Now he’s one of the top goal scorers in the league and near a PPG.

Slaf’s a bum not a bum and now a bum again maybe kind of we’ll see what he does next game even though he probably has a very similar ppg to Rantanen at the same age. And compares very favourably production wise to other young stars in the league.

Things can change real fast. It’s not like he’d be some freakish outlier if he took another 30 games or so to get it back. It happens ALL THE TIME lol.

If Hughes traded him as many want to like right this second, you’d freak out if he got it back and it would be ‘why did we only wait 20 games?!?!’ lolol. Like have an ounce of self awareness haha Jesus.

Prisoners of the moment!

 

[ReHabs]

People wrote off Heineman. Now they’re clamouring for him to be in the top 6.

Caufield was finally showing his REAL colours last year and he was a net negative not even a top 6er and we just had to deal with it. Now he’s one of the top goal scorers in the league and near a PPG.

Slaf’s a bum not a bum and now a bum again maybe kind of we’ll see what he does next game even though he probably has a very similar ppg to Rantanen at the same age. And compares very favourably production wise to other young stars in the league.

Things can change real fast. It’s not like he’d be some freakish outlier if he took another 30 games or so to get it back. It happens ALL THE TIME lol.

If Hughes traded him as many want to like right this second, you’d freak out if he got it back and it would be ‘why did we only wait 20 games?!?!’ lolol. Like have an ounce of self awareness haha Jesus.

Caufield was a "net negative" last year... do you think this was the prevailing attitude toward him?
You think "they're" clamouring for an 8pt player Heineman to be in the top6 today?

How many players paced for 30pts the season after major surgery and then produced significantly better (60pts+) the seasons after -- can you name three from the past two decades? You said it happens all the time.

How many people even want Dach traded right this second? Must be a lot since you're railing against "them".

Your back must hurt from planting all those scarecrows.

 

[Sorinth]

Caufield was a "net negative" last year... do you think this was the prevailing attitude toward him?
You think "they're" clamouring for an 8pt player Heineman to be in the top6 today?

How many players paced for 30pts the season after major surgery and then produced significantly better (60pts+) the seasons after -- can you name three from the past two decades? You said it happens all the time.

How many people even want Dach traded right this second? Must be a lot since you're railing against "them".

Your back must hurt from planting all those scarecrows.

Teemu Selanne always comes to mind for these type of things, he was a stud got injured and wasn't the same for the next 3 years which culminated in a 32 point season and the consensus was he was done, only to score 90 and 94 the next 2 years.

Comeback stories are fairly common and people tend to jump the gun on players being "finished", I can even remember a poster hear saying they wouldn't trade Gallagher for Ovechkin straight up because Ovechkin's goal scoring dropped significantly for a while and people were talking about him being "finished" as a premier player. Pavel Bure also had a few years where injuries seemed to derail his scoring, after back to back 60 goal seasons he spent 3 injury plagued seasons averaging 30ish goals only to bounce back with multiple 50 goal seasons including a 58 and 59.

 

[ReHabs]

Teemu Selanne always comes to mind for these type of things, he was a stud got injured and wasn't the same for the next 3 years which culminated in a 32 point season and the consensus was he was done, only to score 90 and 94 the next 2 years.

Comeback stories are fairly common and people tend to jump the gun on players being "finished", I can even remember a poster hear saying they wouldn't trade Gallagher for Ovechkin straight up because Ovechkin's goal scoring dropped significantly for a while and people were talking about him being "finished" as a premier player. Pavel Bure also had a few years where injuries seemed to derail his scoring, after back to back 60 goal seasons he spent 3 injury plagued seasons averaging 30ish goals only to bounce back with multiple 50 goal seasons including a 58 and 59.

I racked my brain thinking about these cases and I could only remember Teemu Selanne around the early 2000s. You can forgive me for not thinking he's an apt comparison to Kirby Dach.

Apparently these cases happen "ALL THE TIME" so I'd love to be reminded of more. It would sustain me and give me hope that Kirby Dach's <30pt pace this season isn't as devastating as I fear.

 

[417]

The kind of injury Dach had, complete tear of his ACL and I believe partial tear of his MCL, are rare in hockey.

It's more of an injury you'll see more commonly in the NFL.

And yes, in the NFL, it can take players up to 1 year to fully recover, but many players say it takes a full 18 months at the very least to feel like their old selves. Some never truly recover.

Psychologically, it can be debilitating.

But sure, 24 games seems like more than enough to take the pitchforks out.

Marian Hossa is another NHL player who suffered a major injury, struggled his first year back before finding his game again.

it's just not a very common injury in hockey, taking any empirical evidence from it really isn't productive.

 

[OneSharpMarble]

How many people even want Dach traded right this second? Must be a lot since you're railing against "them".

You must be new here.

 

[Team_Spirit]

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Limp Dach needs some Viagra

 

[CHwest]

The kind of injury Dach had, complete tear of his ACL and I believe partial tear of his MCL, are rare in hockey.

It's more of an injury you'll see more commonly in the NFL.

And yes, in the NFL, it can take players up to 1 year to fully recover, but many players say it takes a full 18 months at the very least to feel like their old selves. Some never truly recover.

Psychologically, it can be debilitating.

But sure, 24 games seems like more than enough to take the pitchforks out.

Marian Hossa is another NHL player who suffered a major injury, struggled his first year back before finding his game again.

it's just not a very common injury in hockey, taking any empirical evidence from it really isn't productive.

Most of the social media crowd has the attention span of a gnat, they want instant gratification. No understanding of life really, he's playing, he should pick up right where he left off, if he cannot well there is a dog pile for that. It's both sad and predictable and childish. Hate social media in that people will say stuff they would never have the courage to say to someone's face, me included sadly.

 

[Team_Spirit]

Limp Dach needs some Viagra

I don't want Limp Dach! I want angry KIRBY!!!

 

[ottawa]

Yep, I said as much in the post-game thread. Dach, Newhook and Barron were supposed to speed up the rebuild. We traded Lehkonen away for Barron and a second. Makes me want to puke.

Love Lehkonen but don't believe he was going to develop the same way here.

That 2nd ultimately ended up being in a trade to upgrade our 1st in order to draft Hage so let's see how that turns out as well.

 

[Hacketts]

People wrote off Heineman. Now they’re clamouring for him to be in the top 6.

Caufield was finally showing his REAL colours last year and he was a net negative not even a top 6er and we just had to deal with it. Now he’s one of the top goal scorers in the league and near a PPG.

Slaf’s a bum not a bum and now a bum again maybe kind of we’ll see what he does next game even though he probably has a very similar ppg to Rantanen at the same age. And compares very favourably production wise to other young stars in the league.

Things can change real fast. It’s not like he’d be some freakish outlier if he took another 30 games or so to get it back. It happens ALL THE TIME lol.

If Hughes traded him as many want to like right this second, you’d freak out if he got it back and it would be ‘why did we only wait 20 games?!?!’ lolol. Like have an ounce of self awareness haha Jesus.

 

[Rapala]

I racked my brain thinking about these cases and I could only remember Teemu Selanne around the early 2000s. You can forgive me for not thinking he's an apt comparison to Kirby Dach.

Apparently these cases happen "ALL THE TIME" so I'd love to be reminded of more. It would sustain me and give me hope that Kirby Dach's <30pt pace this season isn't as devastating as I fear.

I'm with you comparing Dach to players who have actually had some lengthy sustained success is a lark.
We are talking about a player in Selanne who had 25 points more in his first season than Dach has in his entire career.
Dach has two hurdles to carry the first is availability and the second is production.
Clearing one won't be enough he has to clear both.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

People wrote off Heineman. Now they’re clamouring for him to be in the top 6.

Caufield was finally showing his REAL colours last year and he was a net negative not even a top 6er and we just had to deal with it. Now he’s one of the top goal scorers in the league and near a PPG.

Slaf’s a bum not a bum and now a bum again maybe kind of we’ll see what he does next game even though he probably has a very similar ppg to Rantanen at the same age. And compares very favourably production wise to other young stars in the league.

Things can change real fast. It’s not like he’d be some freakish outlier if he took another 30 games or so to get it back. It happens ALL THE TIME lol.

If Hughes traded him as many want to like right this second, you’d freak out if he got it back and it would be ‘why did we only wait 20 games?!?!’ lolol. Like have an ounce of self awareness haha Jesus.

nobody is wroting off Heineman , what does that even mean . Heineman is a bottom 6 player doing his job with his limited ice time.

My god we keep coping that Dach is 20 year olds , hes turning 24 , shows absolutely nothing. Chicago fans realized this a while ago that Dach is simply not fit as a center , let alone in the top6.
He has every chance in the world , to show what is he worth.
We are 31th in the league , we somehow have a decent PP god knows why and yet even being on the first unit , Dach has done absolutely nothing on the PP and literally everything happens without him being even in the play.

Also funny how this board only protect Dach while Barron just turned 23 and Newhook is also turning 24.

Dach has played 236 games
Barron has played 106 games
Newhook has played 238 games

Yet everyone agrees that Barron is barely a nhler and that Newhook despite his chances cant make happens and everyone agree on this board

Btw Newhook and Dach have the same amount of points in their career , yet Dach is somehow trending up for breathing air on the ice.


Literally the same people from last season who were Praising Matheson because of his secondary assists that now wants to throw him away despite playing the same exact way.

Some people will say that we are to quick to throw the towel and some we wait until hes 31 year olds before they realize that he's not doing the job done.

We wasted similar assets for those 3 and yet we can't compare oh we cant judge him like the others.

Kinda out of touch if you ask me.
The injury card is a joke. He trained nonstop this summer played hockey since september now entering december but somehow an professional hockey player , who has trained and played their whole life hockey , somehow forgot every basic of hockey because of an injury. Cmon now thats completely ridic.

 

[HabzSauce]

At this point, Dach is playing bad, its a fact. But is it helping to always putting him down every game and to sur-analyze every little details he does? No.

I still think he have the tools to be a good top 6 players. Might not be a center but its really dishonest to give up on this guy when he's clearly struggling coming back from a big injury. The season he was playing 1st line he proves he can be a really special player. Sadly, injury slow his progression but it doesnt remove that he has way more to offer. I still think he can become what we saw before his big injury. Time will tell.

Helping who, Dach? If thats the case I seriously doubt he's reading these boards.

Dach has better things to do than consume HFhabs. I'd be very worried if he let a discussion board rattle him. This is MTL, perform or get sh*t on just the way she goes. Can't take the heat then ask for a trade idk

He's so bad right now and fans can say whatever they want but I agree patience is needed as annoying as that is. Trending to bust land but we won't know what we have in him until end of year most likely. Maybe not even till next year.

And if he's still crap whatever that's his last year so who cares.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Yep, I said as much in the post-game thread. Dach, Newhook and Barron were supposed to speed up the rebuild. We traded Lehkonen away for Barron and a second. Makes me want to puke.

That lane Hutson guy seems pretty good.

 

[Andrei79]

I racked my brain thinking about these cases and I could only remember Teemu Selanne around the early 2000s. You can forgive me for not thinking he's an apt comparison to Kirby Dach.

Apparently these cases happen "ALL THE TIME" so I'd love to be reminded of more. It would sustain me and give me hope that Kirby Dach's <30pt pace this season isn't as devastating as I fear.

A similar example would be Justin Williams. Torr his ACL and MCL in 2007, came back and looked like crap the next year, was pacing for 20 something points. He managed to play another decade and was a key player for LA. Williams did have a ton of other injuries during that time though, including an Achilles tear.