Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal part 2

[Kobe Armstrong]

People underestimate the intensity and speed of the best hockey league in the world. This isnt a long weekend Dach came back from guys, he had a life altering injury and recovered for a solid year. He might not be back to normal until he has a full season under his belt.

I was told repeatedly that ACL injuries were no big deal anymore and that he would have been ready to play games at the end of last season if we were competitive

 

[Goalfield13]

It's always confidence with this guy? is he really that weak mentally? Are we going to have to baby him forever to be effective?

 

[Paddyjack]

17 games is not a lot after a year off and a serious injury. This isn't an established player, he was only coming into his own right before it. He's going to need time.

I agree. I often hear how the development of certain young players were disrupted at bad times for many reasons e.g. covid lockdown, suspension (Mailloux), injury etc, so I'm not that surprised about what is happening with Dach. However, the big issue is we are so bad with so little depth that too much hang on his shoulders. He should be playing on a third line, quietly wthout expectations until he gets his confidence back.

 

[morhilane]

It's always confidence with this guy? is he really that weak mentally? Are we going to have to baby him forever to be effective?

The entire team is made of neurotics outside of Gallagher and Evans.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

It's always confidence with this guy? is he really that weak mentally? Are we going to have to baby him forever to be effective?

It’s not like there’s any veterans on the team he can learn from

 

[Goalfield13]

The entire team is made of neurotics outside of Gallagher and Evans.

Dach is the worst offender of our top 6 players. Caufield is doing his job being at the top of the goal scoring race. Suzuki is PPG at #1C. Slaf has had very good games out there, and doesn't display confidence issues the more seasoned Dach does. Dach was supposed to be much better than this, and we are 17 games into the season now, so I think we can start to single him out.

It’s not like there’s any veterans on the team he can learn from

Gallagher and Evans are plenty to learn from this season.

 

[Andy]

He's been shit. Completely unrecognizable from the player we saw two years ago.

He just had to get injured.

 

[OldCraig71]

Dach himself said that he felt ready to come back late last season but the team wanted to use caution and have him start the season this year.

Some are seeing a lack of confidence which is possible but for me, it's the careless play and low effort that he's showing that's holding him back. MSL moved him to the first line because his deficiencies would be covered up by Suzuki because he has looked bad when paired with others. The unfortunate thing for us is that Newhook is just as bad and Suzuki can only have two wingers. No one believes we should have Caufield on a different line than our best center but that's how bad Dach has been. MSL is trying everything to get him to wake up.

 

[Artaud]

17 games is not a lot after a year off and a serious injury. This isn't an established player, he was only coming into his own right before it. He's going to need time.

How many games does he need to get back from an ACL though? 20, 30? It's been more than a year. This is a player who gets injured every year, never played more than 70 games. If it takes him 30 games to get back in shape and he keeps getting injured this often, you're looking at a dude who will be a net negative most of his career, like he is right now.

And it's not like Caufield where the injury is nagging and affects his main thing. Fantasy football players know that with serious rehab, you can come back from an ACL to 100% after a year.

I'm not saying all hope is lost, but the hope is thin. At this point, it's fanboy behavior to be convinced he will become a difference maker.

Is the problem confidence, or attitude? What did Dach ever have to earn? He doesn't look hungry out there. He has zero dawg in him. The only time he ever looked good for a meaningful stretch was as a passenger next to the team's two best player. He's never shown he can drive the bus.

Marty needs to light a fire under his ass. He needs to be held accountable for his bad play.

 

[417]

Wouldn't be surprised if he struggles for a large portion of next year, from what I understand that knee injury was nasty

Bump x 2

 

[expy]

MSL is trying everything to get him to wake up.

He's been awake, he just sucks.

 

[OldCraig71]

Bump x 2

Pumping your own tires eh. I don't buy it, especially with load management being practiced in all the major sports in 2024. Dach has played every game and is struggling but I would say it's more mental than physical.

 

[Andy]

Pumping your own tires eh. I don't buy it, especially with load management being practiced in all the major sports in 2024. Dach has played every game and is struggling but I would say it's more mental than physical.

I would agree that he looks "lazy". But he also just looks lost.

I cant believe how different of a player he looks.

 

[417]

Pumping your own tires eh. I don't buy it, especially with load management being practiced in all the major sports in 2024. Dach has played every game and is struggling but I would say it's more mental than physical.

Not really lol but this was easily predictable anyone who has followed sports and this team in particular could have predicted this lol. I'm not surprised that fans/media are turning against him and pointing out subjective issues like "effort" and his lack of physical play.

It's all just noise for me, it was a major injury both physically and mentally. The current context of the team doesn't make it an easy adjustment either.

I'm not all that concerned, if the team was playing amazing and he looked like shit I might be...but i'm not expecting the 1 guy who spent all of last year seriously injured, to be ahead of the guys who played and look just as bad this year.

I would agree that he looks "lazy". But he also just looks lost.

I cant believe how different of a player he looks.

Is there anyone on this team who doesn't look lost right now?

Real talk, other than Lane Hutson and Cole Caufield...everyone looks like they're learning to play a new sport lol

Suzuki, Slaf, Guhle, Monty...etc, etc...

 

[Andy]

Is there anyone on this team who doesn't look lost right now?

Real talk, other than Lane Hutson and Cole Caufield...everyone looks like they're learning to play a new sport lol

Suzuki, Slaf, Guhle, Monty...etc, etc...

This is also true. Though I find Newhook (even though he's been flubbing a lot of chances) has looked good since the Calgary game.

Despite the narrative, and me also hating that we have to carry their caps, Gallagher and Anderson have been good.

But you are right, Suzuki, Slaf, Guhle, Matheson, Savard, Dach Monty have looked like ass.

 

[417]

This is also true. Though I find Newhook (even though he's been flubbing a lot of chances) has looked good since the Calgary game.

Despite the narrative, and me also hating that we have to carry their caps, Gallagher and Anderson have been good.

But you are right, Suzuki, Slaf, Guhle, Matheson, Savard, Dach Monty have looked like ass.

Which is highly problematic.

Either way, back to Dach, i'm just not expecting him to be all that different from the rest of the team. Dach doesn't look like the player we all last saw in March 2022 (i'm not counting the 1 1/4 games he played last year) but no one else even comes close to the player they were at their best last year either.

Suzuki looks like he's joined Randy Bobandy's offseason cheeseburger diet plan. Guhle works hard but not smart, ditto for Matheson, Slafkovsky looks like the guy everyone wanted to banish to the AHL last year.

These are the guys I was expecting to ease Dach's transition back, not the other way around.

Personally, i'm a big Dach fan so maybe i'm bias but give it time (like the rest of this team).

 

[OldCraig71]

Not really lol but this was easily predictable anyone who has followed sports and this team in particular could have predicted this lol.

Did you watch the game last night? If it was so predictable then the guys running the team should have called you for your advice because they have been playing Dach as our second-line center. That is a grave error on their part to give him that much responsibility coming back from injury, especially if they felt he couldn't handle it.

 

[417]

Did you watch the game last night?

Most of it...I can't watch entire games anymore, especially when there's a compelling NFL game on to watch simultaneously and/or instead of.

If it was so predictable then the guys running the team should have called you for your advice because they have been playing Dach as our second-line center. That is a grave error on their part to give him that much responsibility coming back from injury, especially if they felt he couldn't handle it.

What was the alternative? and i'm not saying and was not suggesting that i'm some kind of prophet, anyone who follows sports understands that the type of injury Dach had, is one that takes up to 2 full years to truly recover from, the physical part is one thing but the mental part is a whole other.

That being said, you can't separate his re-adjustment from the team's performance. If the entire team was playing amazing and he as playing like shit, I would understrand, but his performance isn't an outler from the teams performance.

He's just the latest target of fans/media frustrations.

 

[Hope Of Glory]

This was always gonna take time to come back from. We should start seeing positive things soon.

If he looks this bad in the 2nd half of the season, we might have a problem though.

Its not like playing him prevents us from developing someone more deserving anyway.

 

[badfish]

It's too early to panic or make a reactionary move. My take:

Kirby and the Coaches: The priority should be on rebuilding his confidence to where it was two years ago. I am sure he still has the mental resilience that helped him become an NHLer, but it's understandable he might be playing cautiously to avoid a fourth-season ending injury in his career. I support MSL giving him more opportunities to regain his form, it's not like the Habs are going to be competing for anything meaningful this season anyway.

Hughes and Gorton: They need to explore additional options for center depth. Hage helps address this, but another high-quality offensive center prospect would provide a degree of confidence in the long-term security for this position during the Habs competing years. I have a feeling this will be addressed at the draft.

The fans: At least at my end, I'm remaining patient, even if I am frustrated. Players coming back from major knee injuries take time to return to form. Markov faced a lot of doubts between 2010 and 2014 on if he would ever come close to returning to form. Another good example is Tim Connolly, a highly drafted centerman who also suffered a significant knee injury just as he was starting to break out. It took two seasons for him to get back on track.

 

[salbutera]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1857263267300663544

There’s no doubt it’s a psychological/ confidence issue… as it would be with anyone in those shoes / skates

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I'll say it again, put him with CC and Slaf. See how he does with those guys and try to give him as much ice as he can handle. This is a make or break year for him as our 2nd line center. Put it out there and evaluate.

 

[Ozmodiar]

I’ll reserve judgment until the 2nd half of the season. 13 months now - I didn’t expect him to return to his old self within a year.

Apart from possible lingering physical issues - full ROM, strength, brace (?) - he still has to gain full confidence in the joint and get back his timing. Add to this the fact he’s suppose to be the driver on his line that lacks a scoring threat.

No need to panic, but …

- I’m not sure he should be on PP1. His future isn’t there anyway. Laine this season, Demidov next.
- He was being evaluated as a Center before the injury. He has a lot to prove, even if healthy.
- 2025 off-season will be decision time. Dach is their 2C, Bridge with Newhook or other, and wait another season for Hage, Acquire a 2C.

 

[yianik]

I'll say it again, put him with CC and Slaf. See how he does with those guys and try to give him as much ice as he can handle. This is a make or break year for him as our 2nd line center. Put it out there and evaluate.

Yes we have to try everything and give him every opportunity because it is a make or break year for Kirby as a 2C. If he doesnt grab that spot this year the team has no choice but to actively look at other options. Sure Hage may be a 2C but he is too far away, we would be lucky for Beck to develop into a 2C and so unless we score a top 6C in the draft who can come in next season, we have to either trade for one or sign a UFA. To trade for a 2C , especially a youngish one to fit into our group would be very expensive. But we need that position filled as our young core is getting older and we are at the point we need to start competing and getting post season experience.

We will have to look at trading some of our best prospects to fill critical positions of need. So maybe we have to trade Hage in a package to a team in early rebuild mode that has a good but older 2C to trade , as an example. Dont want to do that but we cant wait 3-4 years to develop our own 2C. Hopefully Dach gets going.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Here's the thing.

I've scouted Dach for awhile, he's been one of my favorite prospects in a draft class.

We've had him for a bit, too.

Aside from this year, when have we known him to be bad defensively, soft, disengaged, etc.?

This isn't a problem that has existed over his entire development cycle, this is net new this year, which points very easily to a lack of confidence, maybe conditioning, but definitely the confidence and a fear of getting injured.

The Dach that I know with that head of steam coming in the zone on the PP? He would have taken that to the net, invited contact and used his reach to try to tuck it around the goalie. Not shoot before anyone got near him.

The guy doesn't suck. He's had plenty of flashes this season where he moves his feet, engages physically and has made some insane plays that didn't get finished off. That's still there.. but he has to get over the confidence and mental block.

He better be working with the sports psychologist because it's the mind that is holding him back. That should be clear to anyone who has watched him over a long period of time.

Now could that confidence never come back and this is the player we get? That could happen, the mental side of the game is so important at this level. But I'm not gonna make a sweeping generalization that he doesn't have it especially since it's not been 20 games since he's been back from a year long absence.

We did have people questioning whether Caufield could score goals in the same manner after his shoulder surgery last year and look at how he's bounced back this year.