nobody to blame but your own players, sorry man. You took 5 penaltes. 2 for running over their goalie untouched, one for a clear trip, one for cross checking a guy in the mouth after the period and one for a clear slew foot. A team with discipline only one of those is ever taken.
Kingston Frontenacs 2024 25 Season Thread Part Iii
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OMG67
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When we had this conversation in the summer, this was the most likely outcome with a full push. This could have gone much worse. Barrie made a heavier push using many more assets than the Fronts had. They were the better team on paper and ended up only being marginally better on the ice/
Take the win.
beastintheeast
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I definitely think that the drafting of players as well as Caputi hurt this team with the plan for this year.
consider
2021 Soto Burns
2022 Battaglia Williamson
2023 Hopkins Weir Vellaris Moore and Dervin
2024 Buttar
If the Fronts are going to rebuild you need to rebuild through the draft and coaching You cannot trade for your whole team.
That being said
It was a good playoff run and might have been different if they had McGowan but Barrie definitelyhad the more powerful team.
The plan for this year ran into a lot of teams that had the same plan. Consider that you had a better year than Brampton.
The team played a good series but ran into a Barrie team that was able to make some better trades, put together better lines, and generate more offense.
The next build should revolve around Kulemin Henderson and Betts . You need to develop the mid-draft players. More importantly, Mann needs to develop a system that will stay with the team and be followed.
Cooper needs to make trades that will help the team as well as draft the players that are needed.
Springer needs to only hire qualified experienced full tim e coaches
consider
2021 Soto Burns
2022 Battaglia Williamson
2023 Hopkins Weir Vellaris Moore and Dervin
2024 Buttar
If the Fronts are going to rebuild you need to rebuild through the draft and coaching You cannot trade for your whole team.
That being said
It was a good playoff run and might have been different if they had McGowan but Barrie definitelyhad the more powerful team.
The plan for this year ran into a lot of teams that had the same plan. Consider that you had a better year than Brampton.
The team played a good series but ran into a Barrie team that was able to make some better trades, put together better lines, and generate more offense.
The next build should revolve around Kulemin Henderson and Betts . You need to develop the mid-draft players. More importantly, Mann needs to develop a system that will stay with the team and be followed.
Cooper needs to make trades that will help the team as well as draft the players that are needed.
Springer needs to only hire qualified experienced full tim e coaches
What win? Winning one series is not a successful season, no matter how you slice it.
I'm not going to re-hash the "should they go in" conversation because whether it was right or wrong, that decision was made at the deadline - and once they made the decision to go in, expectations change, regardless of what the teams around them do.
No organization in the world should that has a team that buys and only wins one series should be content, especially at this stage of the cycle.
OMG67
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The Fronts were behind the 8-ball playing catch up all season. They weren’t ever a top 2 team in this conference. Your expectation was for them to play over their heads and beat a much stronger team? I’m not sure that is realistic.
The Fronts played to their expectations and came within an eyelash of playing above expectations. That’s a win.
If you want to know what a loss looks like, go talk to some Brampton fans….errr Fan. That’s a loss.
We could get into the conversation about 88 points is 88 points is 88 points. Sure. But man for man on paper, Barrie is the best team in this Conference.
Kingston was only 3 wins ahead of the 5th seed and a tough round one. The deadline moves got them to a reasonable spot in the standings where they were given a chance. Just because they didn’t beat the Colts, doesn’t mean it was a wasted season. Had they not done the deadline moves, they’d not have gotten out of round one.
It isn’t always about winning the championship. It is about rising to expectations and the Fronts rose to expectations and damn near exceeded them.
If expectations are losing in the second round then that's why this organization as such a massive stink of losing. Never being to an OHL final. Three conference finals in 50+ years of existence.
It's hard to say it's not about winning championships when that's the goal.
I don't agree that Barrie is a "much stronger" team - but that's a whole different argument that doesn't need to happen. And don't get me wrong - of course Barrie is a great team. The top 4 in the East all are great - but just because they're good on paper doesn't mean that the organization should be willing to accept these results. Going into a playoff series with the expectation of being competitive isn't a recipe for success.
The reason this stings is because the organization has given no one any reason to believe that they'll nail this rebuild. In an ideal world Kingston is back making a run in 2-3 years around, as Beast said (believe it or not yes I agree with beast haha), Kulemin, Betts and Henderson, along with the couple solid 08s that played this year.
I don't know what I did to the sports gods but being a Frontenacs/Maple Leafs/Titans/Blue Jays fan hasn't exactly given me a ton of playoff success...
Donnie740
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- May 28, 2021
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A bitterly disappointing loss for Kingston after going all in at the trade deadline. I stand by my earlier pre Christmas comments that Kingston should have been doing a soft sell at the deadline and building for a run in 2026 when the East is going to be significantly weaker.
frontsfan67
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Unlike some of us I was actually at the game. Believe it or not but the refs were actually horrible. I heard BARRIE FANS saying how poor the officiating was and my buddy who is from Barrie even agreed and he is usually as biased as they come. Even said he is shocked the colts haven’t had embellishing yet at approx 8:52pm which was what? Second period?
frontsfan67
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Donnie. Regarding the fronts.. have you taken a look at the roster? Specifically the ages of certain players?
There you go. There’s no run for 2026 and there was never going to be.
frontsfan67
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Right. Says the Barrie fan. Makes sense.
2 uncalled trips, 1 about as blatant as they’ll ever get and jelsma hitting Schenkel twice and then Guindon retaliates and gets called
Don’t believe it showed replay on burns but did not look at all like a slewfoot from where I was sitting.
Cross checking a guy? I’m sure you guys did that atleast once and no call?? This is the stuff I’m complaining about. How are you going to call it for 1 team but not the other? Call a consistent game or don’t call anything.
I’m not even that mad they lost- just mad HOW they lost. Best of luck to barrie in future they’re a good team but from the fronts point of view they got screwed.
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The east will not be weaker in ‘26. The central in particular is (currently) loaded with ‘06s which imo is the best class in 6-7 years. And Brantford positioned themselves as odds on favourites for the east division.
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beastintheeast
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Whether they are going to be a top team in 2026 or mid-pack or what, really is not the point. Anyone looking at the OHL East could have told you that Kingston was not going to be a contending team. You locked goaltending, you lacked forward depth. BUT kingston had a whole slew of picks that in 26/27 would have made this team a contender. Just look at what you gave up for Willis as an example. A good GM and owner are capable of looking at their team and the league and realizing that unless Moses comes and parts Lake Ontario and tilts the ice for the fronts and builds a wall across the crease. This was not the year to go for it.
Are you going to use some good players? Yes, but consider a soft sell of either Uronen or Pienimi at the deadline and what that might have brought to the team.
The @leafs4life94 is correct Kingston seems to be locked into this we have to go for it this year no matter what screw the future we wil just suck again for 2 years call it a rebuild and then we will trde everything away int he 3rd year and no matter what call it a success.
It is possible to have a 5 year plan but Springer can only count to 3
Refereeing in the OHL has always been a crap shoot. Every team deals with the same refs. The difference is that teams know what happens, and the good teams know how to win.
No matter how you look at it, you got beat by a better team. I did not hear any whining about game 5, which you guys could have won. Barrie made the necessary trades to roll 3 lines, while Kingston had a hard time finding 2 lines that were consistent.
Bottom ine is that until the organization takes a serious look at what it has this team is going to suck and isn ot going to bulid a base.
You harped about the Petes but the difference is that they hae been to the promised land and won. Fans know there is a plan and that the team will build to that plan and be back on top for more than 1 year.
You cannot say anyone looking at the east would not consider Kingston a contender. Once it was known Pieniniemi would be a Frontenac, I picked Kingston as the #2 seed behind Barrie. Given the concentration of ‘05s, it had to be expected Kingston would go for it.
Kingston has finished top 4 six times in the past 11 seasons, once first and four times third I think; that’s ok imo.
Looking at the moves they made this year -
Lalonde for a 3rd and a 7th - I understand the idea, not a crazy high cost but unfortunately it didn't work out
Uronen for a 4th and a 7th - A+, arguably one of the best value trades in the entire league
Guindon and a 10th for a 2/3/4/5/10 - this was a controversial one in the summer but it ended up being a great trade. Guindon was arguably the second best OA skater (along with Fimis) behind Thomas, and probably their best overall playoff player.
Hay/Bishop for Velliaris/2/2/3/3/3/4/5/6 - a LOT to give up but they both played massive roles for this team down the stretch and into the playoffs
Willis for Weir/2/2/3/3/3/4/5/7 - This SAG trade didn't work out nearly as well. I didn't realize how streaky Willis was when they traded for him - of his 17 goals with Saginaw, 13 came in a 5 game stretch. 6 of his 10 Kingston goals came in a 3 game stretch. Unfortunately we didn't see hot Joey Willis in the playoffs and I'm guessing as time moves on and we look back, the lack of depth scoring from that second line they had in the playoffs will be a key reason they didn't move on.
Schenkel for Lalonde/3/5/6 - struggled in the regular season but was aside from Barrie Game 2 was amazing in the playoffs.
There's no doubt they gave up a TON and they didn't get the success they would've been hoping for, but on an individual level almost all these trades worked out pretty well.
Hopefully they'll be able to recoup most/all of those picks in the summer/next deadline to set themselves up well going forward.
Lalonde for a 3rd and a 7th - I understand the idea, not a crazy high cost but unfortunately it didn't work out
Uronen for a 4th and a 7th - A+, arguably one of the best value trades in the entire league
Guindon and a 10th for a 2/3/4/5/10 - this was a controversial one in the summer but it ended up being a great trade. Guindon was arguably the second best OA skater (along with Fimis) behind Thomas, and probably their best overall playoff player.
Hay/Bishop for Velliaris/2/2/3/3/3/4/5/6 - a LOT to give up but they both played massive roles for this team down the stretch and into the playoffs
Willis for Weir/2/2/3/3/3/4/5/7 - This SAG trade didn't work out nearly as well. I didn't realize how streaky Willis was when they traded for him - of his 17 goals with Saginaw, 13 came in a 5 game stretch. 6 of his 10 Kingston goals came in a 3 game stretch. Unfortunately we didn't see hot Joey Willis in the playoffs and I'm guessing as time moves on and we look back, the lack of depth scoring from that second line they had in the playoffs will be a key reason they didn't move on.
Schenkel for Lalonde/3/5/6 - struggled in the regular season but was aside from Barrie Game 2 was amazing in the playoffs.
There's no doubt they gave up a TON and they didn't get the success they would've been hoping for, but on an individual level almost all these trades worked out pretty well.
Hopefully they'll be able to recoup most/all of those picks in the summer/next deadline to set themselves up well going forward.
Kingpin794
Smart A** In A Jersey
I would look at it this way for those that view this season as a failure: If this matchup with Barrie was for the Eastern conference final, no one would bat an eye. The east was just really deep this year. It happens. Dust yourself off and try again the next time the you're able to.
beastintheeast
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Pieniniemi was a good get just as Uronen turned out to be the issue though was that getting those 2 was not going to solve the full problem.
Don't get me wrong, I like the early-season trades they made; they made a lot of sense. Where I have a little difficulty is at the deadline. Kingston was a good team but it didnot have the depth of Brantford, Oshawa and Barrie.
My argument is not with the trades, though; it is with the rationale that this team had to go for it this year.
The fronts did not have to go all in this year. next year you would also have had a good year with the added draft choices. Imagine what this team would look like if it had all the early draft picks that they traded for Willis et al.
My argument, and it has been consistent since the 90s, is that we build for three years, and on the third year, we have to go for it no matter what is flawed. It seems to always go back to good for one season and then rebuild.
The Kingston fan base and people are not set for that, and that is part of the reason for low attendance.
Kitchener is a prime example of what I am talking about. They started with the plan to go for it, then saw what London looked like and said ok, we will build, but we are not going to go nuts. Now this year you are going to have to trade Battaglia, MCGowan and a lot of other players in thehope to get some of the draft picks back.
Please do not trade Hopkins or any of the young rookies for draft picks.
At the end of the day I think Kingston is working on trying to build a winning culture and be a place players will want to come play so they can have some kind of success eventually.
No one can say the organization has not taken a huge step forward over the past 12 months.
You can see it with the on ice product, structure, players accepting trades to Kingston, attendance, etc
If you look back the past 2-3 years there has been so many wrongs they have tried to undo, drafting players that don't want to come, poor drafting in general, bringing in poor character players, Caputi, making trades that made no sense and dumping them a year later for 1/3 of the value you bought them for.
Watching this series these 2 teams were about as even matched as it gets until Kingston went out and gifted Barrie that game last night taking selfish undisciplined penatlies.
They let their emotions get the best of them again like they do almost every game against Oshawa and continued to take ridiculous penatlies. -This was not a game the stripes were allowing them to get away with infractions like Game 6 (both sides).
You would think after taking 1 or 2 they would realize this but it continued on and the players have no one to blame but themselves. -In a game where every little infraction is called you need to adapt to it.
I'm not sure i agree with that Slew foot call as there was no kicking motion to sweep his feet out but Burns is not ever getting the benefit of the doubt on that due to his past reputation in the league.
There was nothing malicious about that play and it actually look like Burns over powered him but i have not rewatched it. -Barrie commentators actually were questioning the call after a couple replays as well.
It's a dangerous play anytime a player falls back and hits their head. -What i absolutely cannot stand is players going down to tunnel and soon as the 5 hits the score board coming out for the powerplay.
The league needs to address this in my opinion. -Hold them out the period or game if they are actually hurt enough to play dead. -Lets be honest you are not doing a proper concussion eventuation in 30 seconds in the tunnel.
I personally don't think refs are bought and paid for or anything like that but some of them are just stronger then others, make more mistakes then others, fall for calls being sold.
With all that said i still think Kingston's season ended exactly where most thought it would.
Losing in the 2nd round to a stronger team. -If anything they surprised me being more evenly matched then i thought.
Kingston was not able to secure value trades during the season like Barrie was having NB gift them an entire first line and overpaid greatly for what they got. -I think Willis turned out to be one that backfired a bit.
I also suspect we will see more to the Barrie / NB trade this summer.
No one can say the organization has not taken a huge step forward over the past 12 months.
You can see it with the on ice product, structure, players accepting trades to Kingston, attendance, etc
If you look back the past 2-3 years there has been so many wrongs they have tried to undo, drafting players that don't want to come, poor drafting in general, bringing in poor character players, Caputi, making trades that made no sense and dumping them a year later for 1/3 of the value you bought them for.
Watching this series these 2 teams were about as even matched as it gets until Kingston went out and gifted Barrie that game last night taking selfish undisciplined penatlies.
They let their emotions get the best of them again like they do almost every game against Oshawa and continued to take ridiculous penatlies. -This was not a game the stripes were allowing them to get away with infractions like Game 6 (both sides).
You would think after taking 1 or 2 they would realize this but it continued on and the players have no one to blame but themselves. -In a game where every little infraction is called you need to adapt to it.
I'm not sure i agree with that Slew foot call as there was no kicking motion to sweep his feet out but Burns is not ever getting the benefit of the doubt on that due to his past reputation in the league.
There was nothing malicious about that play and it actually look like Burns over powered him but i have not rewatched it. -Barrie commentators actually were questioning the call after a couple replays as well.
It's a dangerous play anytime a player falls back and hits their head. -What i absolutely cannot stand is players going down to tunnel and soon as the 5 hits the score board coming out for the powerplay.
The league needs to address this in my opinion. -Hold them out the period or game if they are actually hurt enough to play dead. -Lets be honest you are not doing a proper concussion eventuation in 30 seconds in the tunnel.
I personally don't think refs are bought and paid for or anything like that but some of them are just stronger then others, make more mistakes then others, fall for calls being sold.
With all that said i still think Kingston's season ended exactly where most thought it would.
Losing in the 2nd round to a stronger team. -If anything they surprised me being more evenly matched then i thought.
Kingston was not able to secure value trades during the season like Barrie was having NB gift them an entire first line and overpaid greatly for what they got. -I think Willis turned out to be one that backfired a bit.
I also suspect we will see more to the Barrie / NB trade this summer.
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beastintheeast
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Too early to be serious line up
Battaglia Hay Soto
Miedema Hopkins Kelly
Buttar Dervin Import
McCuaig Kulemin Wright/ Snyder
MCGowan Import
Henderson Bishop/Uen
Williamson Moore
Betts
?
I think the first line can be traded at the deadline and will bring something.
The challenge is going to be who they keep as OA
I think Vaccari is done I do not see a spot for him and really he has little trade value
Players drafted 4-8 I would start in the OJHL or CCHL to get ice time
Snyder is the only one that I would keep with the team as he is American
Battaglia Hay Soto
Miedema Hopkins Kelly
Buttar Dervin Import
McCuaig Kulemin Wright/ Snyder
MCGowan Import
Henderson Bishop/Uen
Williamson Moore
Betts
?
I think the first line can be traded at the deadline and will bring something.
The challenge is going to be who they keep as OA
I think Vaccari is done I do not see a spot for him and really he has little trade value
Players drafted 4-8 I would start in the OJHL or CCHL to get ice time
Snyder is the only one that I would keep with the team as he is American
Again. not a Barrie fan. Digging for the puck is a whole lot different than flat out running the goalie over, which is what both of your guys did unfortunately. Also, the Eliasson penalty in the third period was about as soft as you will see in game 7.
Sure there were plenty of crosschecks. At the end of the period however and in the face, that is a different story.
The fact is this game wasn't particularly close. Schenkel, despite not really knowing, was able to make huge saves. There was no real way for kingston to ever win that game.
frontsfan67
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Exactly not like they got swept by some crappy team like Sudbury first round. They lost to a phenomenal team that most had or have winning the east. Game 7 and lose by 2 goals. Pretty damn close.
100% @ScoutLife4
Excellent unbiased post with truth and reality spoken.
It's going to take some time to build an Organizations reputation but this was a good starting point. The Fronts players should be proud of their season even though yesterday, today and tomorrow it will sting.
The GM is very fresh/new at this and learning as he goes.
Knowing what year to push the chips in, how much to spend on targeted acquisition players at the deadline & their value along with improved drafting is going to take more time.
As far as players accepting trades to Kingston, that has some truth to it but I won't go into details on here about players who said no to the Fronts at the Trade Deadline because of the team culture & coaching staff. (When I say coaching staff, I mean HC as Longo & Sanvido don't have much of a voice).
A true test will be next year for the Coach & GM. A huge re-tooling and hopefully recouping some of those draft picks back and HC needs to develop and trust younger players (This isn't the AHL).
One of the more successful Fronts seasons
frontsfan67
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Yep aitcheson falls down like he got shot rolls around and once the 5 is on the board he’s perfectly fine. Did a great LeBron James impersonation there.
Burns definitely has a reputation and we’ve seen it over the last 2 years. Oddly enough I don’t believe he’s ever gotten a slewfooting penalty before and then they call it game 7 in his final OHL game.
Willis was horrible. What a disaster of a trade. Hay ended up being the best player by far they got of the Saginaw boys. Bishop had his moments don’t think anyone was expecting bobby orr out of him but with Willis his job was to score and he had 1 real good game as a front. That’s it.
I don't even really think Aitcheson was selling the call to be honest.
He fell back awkwardly and i think did hit his head and get rattled. but i dont consider that a slewfoot by definition as his feet were not kicked out. It looked like it was more so the upper body strength of Burns outpowering him. (which is quite shocking because Kash is a big strong lad.
The issue I have and always will have is if the LEAGUE truly cares about head injuries as much as they say they do they need to protect the players by not allowing teams to hide them in the tunnel until the 5 is confirmed and through them right back out on the ice on the PP.
There is obviously no concussion evaluation happening in 30 seconds but they are hidden in the tunnel like they are injured until the 5 is confirmed.
frontsfan67
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Would be nice if the league did something about that. Too late for that with the fronts though. Missing McGowan and burns will be hard to win a game without those two let alone refs or penalties
Wolfman Jack
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