Kingston Frontenacs 2024-25 Season Thread, Part II

[frontsfan67]

Could you please remind me on what we are waiting for?

To me this reeks of a GM and organization who can’t pull the trigger or attract the players.

-Apparently, we had the best offer for Wakely and he said no thanks
-I heard that we were looking to acquire Romani for when he’s healthy , but that’s a done deal with Barrie.

Is the GMs phone on?
Sell the top dogs and recoup last years absurd buy at the deadline.

I agree. If we buy cooper should be fired or have a serious conversation regarding the job.

Dont like mentioning people’s jobs but what exactly have we done since the Covid year?

2021-22 wrights draft year we didn’t make any big buys besides getting wisdom back

2022-23 traded wright for a crap package simply because they liked Miedema at the time of the previous draft. 1 2nd round pick returned. McCarthy who was a big piece didn’t even report

2023-24 traded for Chromiak overpaid there and he isn’t even on the team this year

2023-24 traded for Roman schmidt and jax Dubois pretty big packages and forced out frasca due to acquiring Dubois. Thibs ended up leaving too. Also didn’t trade ludwinski which would’ve helped majorly for this year with all our 19 year olds

2024-25 traded for Guindon got good value but now we’re sitting ducks just watching all these other teams get all these great players. Also drafted a 16 year old who didn’t report- someone we could’ve used as a trade chip this year for a guy like Gibson. ALSO didn’t even trade malholtra for a big package. believe a 3rd/4th/5th?? For a top 10 pick that is atrocious. Don’t know if he comes or not but if he does it’s clear we got ripped off there.

Guindon trade was fair value, Thibodeau and frasca returns were great. Other than that everything else is brutal.

Next year losing a crap ton of the team and after we probably buy we’re not going to have a super bright future or any picks to use.

Really hope they make some trades the casual fans won’t like it but who cares half of them might go to 5 games a year max. They need to do what’s best for the organization- it’s not worth screwing your future for potentially an extra week of hockey.

How tf does anyone actually know this crap? Just because Twitter or hfboard hack says it?

Heard this too. Especially about Wakely. Not my job to post this stuff though as I’m not a source but rather just got let in on a little bit of info

 

[Logosarejusttargets]

I understand the sentiment of wanting change or keeping up with the “joneses”. As a hockey fan in general trade deadlines are fun and exciting times but we need to consider while we are tossing out “trade this kid or go get that kid” that we are talking about disrupting peoples lives. Yes they choose to play hockey and this is part of it, but these kids have often grown up a lot in the 2-3 sometimes 4 years with a team. They’ve become family members with the billets, created friendships and girlfriends- so while we toss around gossip about them it’s their lives that are impacted often with little control.

 

[GoFronts]

I'm not sure if it's Springer being overly involved or if Cooper isn't pulling the trigger on stuff or what the full scenario is but consistently missing out on these trades is getting old really fast. We should now move to being sellers, but we won't.

Barrie gets Romani and Van Steensel
Oshawa gets Gibson and maybe Mignosa
Kingston gets.....nothing. No rumours, no nothing.

My hopes are falling fast.

 

[Fischhaber]

I'm not sure if it's Springer being overly involved or if Cooper isn't pulling the trigger on stuff or what the full scenario is but consistently missing out on these trades is getting old really fast. We should now move to being sellers, but we won't.

Barrie gets Romani and Van Steensel
Oshawa gets Gibson and maybe Mignosa
Kingston gets.....nothing. No rumours, no nothing.

My hopes are falling fast.

Rumour in the Soo is that Kingston was given every chance to get Gibson as a preferred trading partner and they declined. It's not that players don't want to go there or anything, the GM just doesn't want to deal.

 

[frontsfan67]

I understand the sentiment of wanting change or keeping up with the “joneses”. As a hockey fan in general trade deadlines are fun and exciting times but we need to consider while we are tossing out “trade this kid or go get that kid” that we are talking about disrupting peoples lives. Yes they choose to play hockey and this is part of it, but these kids have often grown up a lot in the 2-3 sometimes 4 years with a team. They’ve become family members with the billets, created friendships and girlfriends- so while we toss around gossip about them it’s their lives that are impacted often with little control.

Logos all due respect this is a hockey board don’t expect us to talk tennis. This isn’t the first time you’ve put out a big message like this. Sounds personal to you.

I'm not sure if it's Springer being overly involved or if Cooper isn't pulling the trigger on stuff or what the full scenario is but consistently missing out on these trades is getting old really fast. We should now move to being sellers, but we won't.

Barrie gets Romani and Van Steensel
Oshawa gets Gibson and maybe Mignosa
Kingston gets.....nothing. No rumours, no nothing.

My hopes are falling fast.

Exactly.

We will overpay for the scraps. Maybe win a round and then suck the next 2 years

Would be better to just realize he messed up and should try something else because this team does not have what it takes to win a championship. We can pretend everything’s all sunshine and rainbows or we can face reality.

 

[ScoutLife4]

Rumour in the Soo is that Kingston was given every chance to get Gibson as a preferred trading partner and they declined. It's not that players don't want to go there or anything, the GM just doesn't want to deal.

They are loyal to Hopkins that’s what’s stopping them from getting Gibson.
Personally, I wouldn’t move Hopkins either if I was in that seat.
Bad past decision are preventing them from getting better.

 

[frontsfan67]

They are loyal to Hopkins that’s what’s stopping them from getting Gibson.
Personally, I wouldn’t move Hopkins either if I was in that seat.
Bad past decision are preventing them from getting better

Would be nice to have Gibson but Hopkins is a huge price tag. However if you want to play the game, you have to pay the price.

Biggest things for me are keeping Heyes as an overager for 1, and 2- keeping Lalonde as an OA despite not being noticeably better than vaccari or Betts imo- that’s just wasting a spot because he’s a hometown kid. If we are ever going to win a championship we have to get a GM that has some balls to make these moves. Hell the hunters traded away their own family member. Sometimes you just have to do what’s best for the business or team.

Doesn’t hopkins have a NTC because he’s a first rounder? If they brought up the Soo and he liked the sounds of playing with Brady Martin, Travis Hayes, Reid etc that would be mutually beneficial for both parties. Instead by the sounds of it- it looks like we may not make any trades. Maybe a top 4 d and call it a day- limping to the finish line against these teams in a full sprint.

Fronts before Romani and Van steensel were traded to the colts were 2 big moves away from matching them, now they’re down 4, time ticking down bottom of the 9th inning and coopers up to bat.

That’s the team everyone is chasing in the east now including Oshawa(who is on a tier above us already and looking to add Gibson, Mignosa and potentially more)

 

[beastintheeast]

OKAY Simple question

A lot of people on here are hammering Cooper. That is all well and good we have that right.

However, can someone tell me what package you would put together to get some of these players you are whining he should have gotten?

Once you remove Hopkins, the Euros, Battaglia, and Burns from the page, what do you have that would make a person jump up and say, "I want to play with Cooper?

I really do not see much. Malhorta and picks might get you a good player, and that is okay, but is one player all this team needs?

You can not get rid of Lalaonde and expect Vaccari to be the goalie to take you deep, and Betts is not ready.

The idea that I understood was that Lalonde was to either 50-50 with Vaccari or be his backup.

You need to set up a system that brings in players who want to play in Kingston. You also need consistent coaching (not a coach).

You lost two big pieces when Frasca and Thibodeau went elsewhere. Yes, you got picks, but picks do not score goals.

 

[Logosarejusttargets]

Logos all due respect this is a hockey board don’t expect us to talk tennis. This isn’t the first time you’ve put out a big message like this. Sounds personal to you.


Exactly.

We will overpay for the scraps. Maybe win a round and then suck the next 2 years

Would be better to just realize he messed up and should try something else because this team does not have what it takes to win a championship. We can pretend everything’s all sunshine and rainbows or we can face reality.

Oh crap I was just about to start making my Australian open predictions- sorry my bad I guess I’ll go back to clutching my pearls and human interest news features.

OKAY Simple question

A lot of people on here are hammering Cooper. That is all well and good we have that right.

However, can someone tell me what package you would put together to get some of these players you are whining he should have gotten?

Once you remove Hopkins, the Euros, Battaglia, and Burns from the page, what do you have that would make a person jump up and say, "I want to play with Cooper?

I really do not see much. Malhorta and picks might get you a good player, and that is okay, but is one player all this team needs?

You can not get rid of Lalaonde and expect Vaccari to be the goalie to take you deep, and Betts is not ready.

The idea that I understood was that Lalonde was to either 50-50 with Vaccari or be his backup.

You need to set up a system that brings in players who want to play in Kingston. You also need consistent coaching (not a coach).

You lost two big pieces when Frasca and Thibodeau went elsewhere. Yes, you got picks, but picks do not score goals.

Also remember vaccari could be out until early February at worst, so any other goalie so Betts can go finish in the OJhL would be good

 

[beastintheeast]

Oh crap I was just about to start making my Australian open predictions- sorry my bad I guess I’ll go back to clutching my pearls and human interest news features.


Also remember vaccari could be out until early February at worst, so any other goalie so Betts can go finish in the OJhL would be good

other than an OA LOL and they seem to be the only things avail. Unless Brampton is selling but again what do you have to offer.

 

[frontsfan67]

OKAY Simple question

A lot of people on here are hammering Cooper. That is all well and good we have that right.

However, can someone tell me what package you would put together to get some of these players you are whining he should have gotten?

Once you remove Hopkins, the Euros, Battaglia, and Burns from the page, what do you have that would make a person jump up and say, "I want to play with Cooper?

I really do not see much. Malhorta and picks might get you a good player, and that is okay, but is one player all this team needs?

Malholtra, Velliaris, Heyes and picks I’m sure would’ve been able to get Romani, Van Steensel and Kennedy

or Malholtra and Velliaris plus picks for Gibson and Mignosa.

Or malholtra, Velliaris, Heyes, crap ton of picks for Gibson, Mignosa and Schenkel

Or malholtra plus picks for pinelli and mayich

Lots of stuff that we would be able to do. All we are limited now are the smaller buys for smaller name guys such as Mitch young for picks for an example and if my math is correct getting 3 bodies is a lot better than 1

Also Luchanko would be going for malholtra, Velliaris and picks probably (some conditionals on him possibly returning next year)

You lost two big pieces when Frasca and Thibodeau went elsewhere. Yes, you got picks, but picks do not score

Yes you’re right but picks can get a guy like Carson Rehkopf for example and we fumbled that hard.

 

[beastintheeast]

Malholtra, Velliaris, Heyes and picks I’m sure would’ve been able to get Romani, Van Steensel and Kennedy

or Malholtra and Velliaris plus picks for Gibson and Mignosa.

Or malholtra, Velliaris, Heyes, crap ton of picks for Gibson, Mignosa and Schenkel

Or malholtra plus picks for pinelli and mayich

Lots of stuff that we would be able to do. All we are limited now are the smaller buys for smaller name guys such as Mitch young for picks for an example and if my math is correct getting 3 bodies is a lot better than 1

Also Luchanko would be going for malholtra, Velliaris and picks probably (some conditionals on him possibly returning next year)

Yes you’re right but picks can get a guy like Carson Rehkopf for example and we fumbled that hard.

The questin that I have is are you sure these guys would come here also in 2 of the trades you are talking about trading with teams that play you directly,

You also have to think are these trades going to make you better than Barrie or Oshawa so that you can win the Conference because they are ot gong to make you good enough to play London.

Cooper, I think, is trying to build a team that will regularly bring fans to the arena. Trading away top young talent is not going to do that, especially if all you are doing is getting a couple of rounds of playoffs.

The challenge is that we, as fans, look at it as we want a winner NOW to hell with next year. An owner like Springer or a GM like Boyd also looks at I want a winner but i also want to have fans inteh seats next year.

Look at the team's history, and you understand why fans do not come to the games. Mavety used to do what you were asking for, and it sucked.

Fans want to get attached to players and or see consistent games they do not want to see a team that blows its mind and then take 4 years to get back, only to blow it up a year early because they think that is what the fans want.

Face it you have nothing to offer any team that gives them something NOW>

 

[leafs4life94]

OKAY Simple question

A lot of people on here are hammering Cooper. That is all well and good we have that right.

However, can someone tell me what package you would put together to get some of these players you are whining he should have gotten?

Once you remove Hopkins, the Euros, Battaglia, and Burns from the page, what do you have that would make a person jump up and say, "I want to play with Cooper?

I really do not see much. Malhorta and picks might get you a good player, and that is okay, but is one player all this team needs?

You can not get rid of Lalaonde and expect Vaccari to be the goalie to take you deep, and Betts is not ready.

The idea that I understood was that Lalonde was to either 50-50 with Vaccari or be his backup.

You need to set up a system that brings in players who want to play in Kingston. You also need consistent coaching (not a coach).

You lost two big pieces when Frasca and Thibodeau went elsewhere. Yes, you got picks, but picks do not score goals.

The Frasca and Thibodeau trades were great trades IF they use the picks for upgrades elsewhere. Frasca isn't even at 20 points yet and although Thibodeau has put up points there wasn't much of a defensive game, and if the chatter on here is true, both weren't great in the room.

As far as I'm concerned those two moves and the Uronen trade have been Cooper's best moves.

 

[beastintheeast]

The Frasca and Thibodeau trades were great trades IF they use the picks for upgrades elsewhere. Frasca isn't even at 20 points yet and although Thibodeau has put up points there wasn't much of a defensive game, and if the chatter on here is true, both weren't great in the room.

As far as I'm concerned those two moves and the Uronen trade have been Cooper's best moves.

Agreed, but would they have brought more if they had been moved with Ludwinski at the dealdine last year?

Who knows but the challenge is that teams for the most part do not want picks they want players now.

We will have a week to go. Let's not kill Cooper and dump him in one of the old quarries yet. Let's see what happens.

 

[ScoutLife4]

Thibodeau and Frasca traded are non issues where they got great returns on mid players with baggage.
I think getting those returns on those players that wanted out made sense.

Guindon has been great but they paid for him.
Uronen was basically donated to Kingston because he was going home.

Drafting, Goaltending and “the wait and see” approach will likely be the death of this teams playoff run.
I will be surprised if anything significant happens at this point involving Kingston.

 

[Logosarejusttargets]

The questin that I have is are you sure these guys would come here also in 2 of the trades you are talking about trading with teams that play you directly,

You also have to think are these trades going to make you better than Barrie or Oshawa so that you can win the Conference because they are ot gong to make you good enough to play London.

Cooper, I think, is trying to build a team that will regularly bring fans to the arena. Trading away top young talent is not going to do that, especially if all you are doing is getting a couple of rounds of playoffs.

The challenge is that we, as fans, look at it as we want a winner NOW to hell with next year. An owner like Springer or a GM like Boyd also looks at I want a winner but i also want to have fans inteh seats next year.

Look at the team's history, and you understand why fans do not come to the games. Mavety used to do what you were asking for, and it sucked.

Fans want to get attached to players and or see consistent games they do not want to see a team that blows its mind and then take 4 years to get back, only to blow it up a year early because they think that is what the fans want.

Face it you have nothing to offer any team that gives them something NOW>

Fans want a winner.

 

[leafs4life94]

Agreed, but would they have brought more if they had been moved with Ludwinski at the dealdine last year?

Who knows but the challenge is that teams for the most part do not want picks they want players now.

We will have a week to go. Let's not kill Cooper and dump him in one of the old quarries yet. Let's see what happens.

Thibodeau, I honestly have no idea, but I doubt he'd have been a needle mover for a team loading up so probably not much.

They weren't looking to move Frasca but the Dubois add made him want out, and again he wouldn't have been a needle mover for a contender as a 17 year old, so unlikely they would've got more unless they used him to buy a rental.

 

[leafs4life94]

Have to laugh at Mike Johnson saying that Uronen plays low in the lineup and doesn't shoot much... He's takes 4 shots a game haha

 

[OMG67]

They are loyal to Hopkins that’s what’s stopping them from getting Gibson.
Personally, I wouldn’t move Hopkins either if I was in that seat.
Bad past decision are preventing them from getting better.

100%.

All we hear in Blue Jay land is how much Guerrero wants to be a Blue Jay for Life. They don’t’ say how much he wants. Same with Mitch Marner and the Leafs.

It is cool to say Kingston had every opportunity as the preferred destination but if the cost is Hopkins plus multiple high picks then that is an easy decision to make.

Not trading Ludwinski and drafting Malhotra is killing them. End of story. It is tying their hands and forcing teams to demand Hopkins when the more elite players are discussed. This angle was discussed to death in the offseason and as predicted, it is all coming to fruition. It really wasn’t hard ot see in August. Why it is any surprise now for anyone is just crazy.

 

[Fischhaber]

100%.

All we hear in Blue Jay land is how much Guerrero wants to be a Blue Jay for Life. They don’t’ say how much he wants. Same with Mitch Marner and the Leafs.

It is cool to say Kingston had every opportunity as the preferred destination but if the cost is Hopkins plus multiple high picks then that is an easy decision to make.

Not trading Ludwinski and drafting Malhotra is killing them. End of story. It is tying their hands and forcing teams to demand Hopkins when the more elite players are discussed. This angle was discussed to death in the offseason and as predicted, it is all coming to fruition. It really wasn’t hard ot see in August. Why it is any surprise now for anyone is just crazy.

Hopkins and Griffin are similar in a lot of ways. Same age, same draft spot, same production. Not a perfect comp, but reasonably close.

Oshawa seemingly decided that it was worth it to get Gibson. There may be an 08 first rounder as well if the rumours are true. That's just the cost of getting an elite player this year. The problem isn't that Kingston doesn't have assets. It's that they don't want to pay the price.

 

[OMG67]

Hopkins and Griffin are similar in a lot of ways. Same age, same draft spot, same production. Not a perfect comp, but reasonably close.

Oshawa seemingly decided that it was worth it to get Gibson. There may be an 08 first rounder as well if the rumours are true. That's just the cost of getting an elite player this year. The problem isn't that Kingston doesn't have assets. It's that they don't want to pay the price.

Just because one team pays a stupid price doesn’t mean others should be criticized for showing more restraint. You aren’t getting Smith and Griffin for only Gibson so don’t even go there (if that is what you meant).

Oshawa was set up better this year than Kingston. OShawa doesn’t need to worry about replacing Griffin’s production. Kingston would need to replace Hopkins production. The two situations are completely different. The only parallel is that both are poised to make an attempt to compete.

 

[beastintheeast]

Oshawa will have nothing next year but then again they have a diehard fan base that backs the ownership and trusts them. That's something that Kingston has not had in a long time.

Again Hopkins and picks will get you a player. Kingston needs a goalie and a couple of forwards especially if you lose Hopkins.

Again let's wait and see the challenge I have with teams is gm that don't say what the plan is for the year.

 

[Fischhaber]

Just because one team pays a stupid price doesn’t mean others should be criticized for showing more restraint. You aren’t getting Smith and Griffin for only Gibson so don’t even go there (if that is what you meant).

Oshawa was set up better this year than Kingston. OShawa doesn’t need to worry about replacing Griffin’s production. Kingston would need to replace Hopkins production. The two situations are completely different. The only parallel is that both are poised to make an attempt to compete.

That isn't what I meant and I wasn't criticizing them for passing either.

I'm just saying that the Malhotra and Ludwinski things weren't a dealbreaker for this particular trade. The team with the top defenseman wanted a top 07 and they got one (probably). That was just the price and Cooper had the assets to do so if he wanted. It wasn't for a lack of resources.

 

[OMG67]

That isn't what I meant and I wasn't criticizing them for passing either.

I'm just saying that the Malhotra and Ludwinski things weren't a dealbreaker for this particular trade. The team with the top defenseman wanted a top 07 and they got one (probably). That was just the price and Cooper had the assets to do so if he wanted. It wasn't for a lack of resources.

It wouldn’t have made them better. It would have shifted one hole to another hole.

 

[frontsfan67]

Oshawa will have nothing next year but then again they have a diehard fan base that backs the ownership and trusts them. That's something that Kingston has not had in a long time.

Again Hopkins and picks will get you a player. Kingston needs a goalie and a couple of forwards especially if you lose Hopkins.

Again let's wait and see the challenge I have with teams is gm that don't say what the plan is for the year.

The fans don’t make trades though- gms do.

That’s why we(the fans) are incredibly disappointed in cooper. They’re stuck in no man’s land right now they have to either A- buy lots- or B sell. Think we all know B is the best option right now but may not be even a realistic option with all the 19 year olds on the team

That isn't what I meant and I wasn't criticizing them for passing either.

I'm just saying that the Malhotra and Ludwinski things weren't a dealbreaker for this particular trade. The team with the top defenseman wanted a top 07 and they got one (probably). That was just the price and Cooper had the assets to do so if he wanted. It wasn't for a lack of resources.

Soo would’ve taken BPA whether that’s Parker Vaughan, Owen Griffin, Tyler Hopkins, Caleb Malholtra, hell even Cole Zurawski or Luca Blonda. Would be stupid to just settle on a player because of a birth date. They’re not doing anything this year anyways you want the player with the best projection and they must feel Owen Griffin is their guy.. or Owen griffin is the best guy offered to them.