Kingston Frontenacs 2024-25 Season Thread, Part II

[frontsfan67]

Been slow producing? Slump?
Isn't 5 pts in 6 games decent? Romani hasn't played since #2 on Erie broke his clavicle Oct. 11

Slow producing or slump or whatever you wanna call it at the start of the year. Had 58 goals and 111 pts I believe last year. 5pts in 6 games isn’t exactly on pace for that. Small sample size but still. Then he got hurt and there’s the question of how will he be when he returns

 

[leafs4life94]

I have no issue with a coach asking for a certain player because they know the family, player, etc. Happens all the time. Now once the player gets here, how does he perform? Can the coach unlock what he thinks the player has or does the player show the same traits as when he was playing on another team? Again the GM has to make that determination and tell the coach it isn't working and I am going to move him if the opportunity arises. What is best for the team should be Cooper's only concern and if it bruises a couple of people so be it. Winning cures all not being a buddy.

Agreed I have no problem if they bring in friends, but ONLY if they can play both sides and cut bait if the friend isn't working out.

Slow producing or slump or whatever you wanna call it at the start of the year. Had 58 goals and 111 pts I believe last year. 5pts in 6 games isn’t exactly on pace for that. Small sample size but still. Then he got hurt and there’s the question of how will he be when he returns

The good thing is with a broken clavicle for the most part you come back stronger than before (at least that's what they've been saying about Schaefer so I'd imagine it'd apply here too).

Whether there's any confidence concerns is another thing, there's always the risk of players playing tentatively when coming back from injury, especially it's their first major injury (I don't know if that's the case for Romani).

 

[OMG67]

Agreed I have no problem if they bring in friends, but ONLY if they can play both sides and cut bait if the friend isn't working out.


The good thing is with a broken clavicle for the most part you come back stronger than before (at least that's what they've been saying about Schaefer so I'd imagine it'd apply here too).

Whether there's any confidence concerns is another thing, there's always the risk of players playing tentatively when coming back from injury, especially it's their first major injury (I don't know if that's the case for Romani).

It has more to do with the totality of the lost time. He played the first three games last playoff and then was out the remainder. Then he is out Game 6 of the regular season this year.

If you are trading for a player as a contender, how much emphasis do you put on readiness? This is a player that I am unsure how well he was able to train in the offseason because of his previous injury. Then not being able to train much this season due to his current injury. YOu cannot train your upper body, back, shoulders, core etc. with that type of injury. You can skate but not high intensity. Part of the time it takes to get back is actually conditioning. He’s going to enter the 2nd half of a season on a contender where pressure starts day one he arrives. His timing will be off. His stamina likely won’t be there. He’s going to have to get into game shape in the 2nd half and that may be difficult. A lot of times it leads to more injury because they push it too hard and allow the pressure to affect the effort when their body may not be fully ready to respond at the same level as the players around them. We see it all the time where an elite player gets an injury and then reinsures themselves and it isn’t the same injury.

There is some risk associated to acquiring Romani but the upside is huge. If he is able to return to form and stay healthy, you get the top available winger in the OHL. Kingston may be in a situation where this particular option is the best option. NB may have less leverage which allows a picks only deal and Kingston gets a player that, although there is risk, may be the best goal scorer available through the entire season, better than Rehkopf, Barlow, Pinelli, Wakely, Luchanko etc.

 

[leafs4life94]

It has more to do with the totality of the lost time. He played the first three games last playoff and then was out the remainder. Then he is out Game 6 of the regular season this year.

If you are trading for a player as a contender, how much emphasis do you put on readiness? This is a player that I am unsure how well he was able to train in the offseason because of his previous injury. Then not being able to train much this season due to his current injury. YOu cannot train your upper body, back, shoulders, core etc. with that type of injury. You can skate but not high intensity. Part of the time it takes to get back is actually conditioning. He’s going to enter the 2nd half of a season on a contender where pressure starts day one he arrives. His timing will be off. His stamina likely won’t be there. He’s going to have to get into game shape in the 2nd half and that may be difficult. A lot of times it leads to more injury because they push it too hard and allow the pressure to affect the effort when their body may not be fully ready to respond at the same level as the players around them. We see it all the time where an elite player gets an injury and then reinsures themselves and it isn’t the same injury.

There is some risk associated to acquiring Romani but the upside is huge. If he is able to return to form and stay healthy, you get the top available winger in the OHL. Kingston may be in a situation where this particular option is the best option. NB may have less leverage which allows a picks only deal and Kingston gets a player that, although there is risk, may be the best goal scorer available through the entire season, better than Rehkopf, Barlow, Pinelli, Wakely, Luchanko etc.

Yeah that's fair, although I think Kingston's depth would make it a little easier because it'd be easier to ease him into the lineup.

If these supposed shakeup rumours are true I'm guessing they'll happen on Thursday before going into the weekend against Oshawa and Barrie. I'll also be curious how they handle goaltending this weekend with the back to back - Lalonde both or do they give Betts one? I'd like them try Betts against Oshawa just to switch it up.

 

[Fischhaber]

I 100% agree with this. In a perfect World, Kingston would acquire Bowen, Gibson, and Allard. Release Lalonde.

I don’t think they can get Gibson without the ‘08 or a high ceiling ‘07. Trading Hopkins makes no sense. It would end up being a marginal upgrade. I’m not sure Andonovski is available. Are there any other attainable first pairing D-Men?

This is where a player like Mayich comes into play but I don’t think Boyd will move him unless the return was dumb. Something like Velliaris plus a 2nd and 3rd? Why would Kingston do that?

Could Kingston pull off a OVS/Romani deal? North Bay is weak on picks and just hit on Ryder Cali. I think they’d do a picks based deal for those two if the deal were right. You’d still need the D-Man but that is a big jolt to the offence. If you did that, it makes Heyes expendable and allows you to add the OA D-Man along with OVS. It could work. Add Bowen, release Lalonde and it all works. Maybe doable with minimal player movement and using only picks. In comes Romani, OVS, Mayich and Bowen. Out goes Heyes, Lalonde, Velliaris and a bunch of picks.

Gibson is a marginal upgrade over Hopkins? You can't be serious. If you get Allard too, it's frankly a big upgrade at 2 positions. That's two Team Canada World Junior caliber players.

 

[leafs4life94]

Gibson is a marginal upgrade over Hopkins? You can't be serious. If you get Allard too, it's frankly a big upgrade at 2 positions. That's two Team Canada World Junior caliber players.

How many Team Canada players come back for an overage year? You need to stop using that as justification for why Allard is worth the moon because he's simply not at that level. He's a good player but he's not even best OA forward to be available/moved - Wakely is better.

It's not a straight replacement - no duh Gibson is a better player than Hopkins at this point. The issue Kingston would have to replace their 2C, and if Allard is in the trade, they'd need to replace another top 9 RW in Heyes. Obviously it helps the D but it hurts the forwards.

Where did the coaches vote Gibson as the best defensive defenseman and shot blocker for the last two years?

 

[Fischhaber]

How many Team Canada players come back for an overage year? You need to stop using that as justification for why Allard is worth the moon because he's simply not at that level. He's a good player but he's not even best OA forward to be available/moved - Wakely is better.

It's not a straight replacement - no duh Gibson is a better player than Hopkins at this point. The issue Kingston would have to replace their 2C, and if Allard is in the trade, they'd need to replace another top 9 RW in Heyes. Obviously it helps the D but it hurts the forwards.

Where did the coaches vote Gibson as the best defensive defenseman and shot blocker for the last two years?

He's a late bloomer and has had injury issues. He missed the entire 22-23 season due to injury. It's no surprise to anyone that pays attention that he was sent back and it's hardly unprecedented.

I didn't say he was 'worth the moon'. I said he would be an upgrade on Hopkins for this year, as he's the league's best defensive forward and hardest worker according to the coaches poll that you like to reference. In that link, you'll also find Gibson's name in both of the categories that you are misquoting me about.

2023-24 OHL Coaches Poll Results - Ontario Hockey League

Rolling out results from the 2023-24 OHL Coaches Poll, highlighting winners from across the League.

chl.ca

 

[OMG67]

Gibson is a marginal upgrade over Hopkins? You can't be serious. If you get Allard too, it's frankly a big upgrade at 2 positions. That's two Team Canada World Junior caliber players.

When a team trades an ‘08, the ‘08 is usually 4th line. The player isn contributing at a high level. When you trade a kid like Hopkins, you need to ALSO replace that player’s production. You are not replacing any production with an ‘08. So, yes, it is a marginal upgrade. We can debate how wide the marginality is but it is still marginal.

You can equate the ‘08 to a draft pick. Neither are producing at a level that is not easily replaced. The five ‘08s that may be available (Vaughn, Challenger, O’Donnell, Blonda, and Smith) have a combined 27 points with O’dDonnell leading the charge with 9. Hopkins has 26.

No matter what Kingston brings in, they need to FIRST replace Hopkins 26 point before they can rep the benefit of the additions. That makes it a MARGINAL upgrade. Using last year’s stats because it is a full seaosn on a quality roster for Allard and this years stats for Hopkins, they are EQUAL production players offensively. So, the two square each other off. Allard has higher level attributes (non-scoring) than Hopkins so that obviously makes Allard far more valuable for a playoff run but again, when it comes down to offence in and offence out, the difference between Hopkins and Allard is Marginal.

Since Kingston needs to measure the offence out vs the offence in, it is less likely they find a deal that makes sense using Hopkins. One of the reasons for this is opposition teams will look at Hopkins or any of the ‘08s I listed as equal. Some may think that having Hopkins is better because he is a more known quantity and others may prefer the younger player so they have the extra year but asset to asset, they are relatively equal BUT not to the team trading the player. It is why we are starting to see a lot more 1st rounders traded because they don’t have the same “current” impact.

Of course, player to player (‘08 or ‘07) are not equal. I am referring to age and ceiling. Receiving an ‘08 vs ‘07 from a calculated ceiling perspective makes them equal. That does not mean Parker Vaughn , Luca Blonda, and Tyler Hopkins are equal value. You still need to factor in ceiling which makes the players differing in overall value.

 

[frontsfan67]

He's a late bloomer and has had injury issues. He missed the entire 22-23 season due to injury. It's no surprise to anyone that pays attention that he was sent back and it's hardly unprecedented.

I didn't say he was 'worth the moon'. I said he would be an upgrade on Hopkins for this year, as he's the league's best defensive forward and hardest worker according to the coaches poll that you like to reference. In that link, you'll also find Gibson's name in both of the categories that you are misquoting me about.

2023-24 OHL Coaches Poll Results - Ontario Hockey League

Rolling out results from the 2023-24 OHL Coaches Poll, highlighting winners from across the League.

chl.ca

As much as I like Gibson I don’t think it’s worth it for the fronts to trade Hopkins for Gibson and allard. Allard is great but Heyes is performing pretty well- exceptional on the PK and very very well liked in the room. (Plus I have heard a few times ludwinski isn’t off the table)

Unless it’s strictly picks or if they would take picks and Velliaris I wouldn’t do Gibson. Now throw in Mignosa and I would trade Hopkins absolutely. Maybe put Luke McNamara in a deal like this- get rid of him and we get an upgrade in Mignosa plus arguably the top defensive d man in the league. Then use remaining picks to get Romani and a guy like Wyatt Kennedy.


Adding potentially:

Ludwinski, Gibson, Mignosa, Romani, Kennedy

Subtracting:

Hopkins, Velliaris, McNamara, tons of picks

Only thing is with this we only have 2 great centres with Guindon and ludwinski, would probably need to make another trade for a third one to play line 3 as I believe Mignosa, uronen, pickell, Soto, Heyes, Battaglia, Miedema all only play wing and I wouldn’t trust Buttar line 3 come playoff time.

 

[Fischhaber]

When a team trades an ‘08, the ‘08 is usually 4th line. The player isn contributing at a high level. When you trade a kid like Hopkins, you need to ALSO replace that player’s production. You are not replacing any production with an ‘08. So, yes, it is a marginal upgrade. We can debate how wide the marginality is but it is still marginal.

You can equate the ‘08 to a draft pick. Neither are producing at a level that is not easily replaced. The five ‘08s that may be available (Vaughn, Challenger, O’Donnell, Blonda, and Smith) have a combined 27 points with O’dDonnell leading the charge with 9. Hopkins has 26.

No matter what Kingston brings in, they need to FIRST replace Hopkins 26 point before they can rep the benefit of the additions. That makes it a MARGINAL upgrade. Using last year’s stats because it is a full seaosn on a quality roster for Allard and this years stats for Hopkins, they are EQUAL production players offensively. So, the two square each other off. Allard has higher level attributes (non-scoring) than Hopkins so that obviously makes Allard far more valuable for a playoff run but again, when it comes down to offence in and offence out, the difference between Hopkins and Allard is Marginal.

Since Kingston needs to measure the offence out vs the offence in, it is less likely they find a deal that makes sense using Hopkins. One of the reasons for this is opposition teams will look at Hopkins or any of the ‘08s I listed as equal. Some may think that having Hopkins is better because he is a more known quantity and others may prefer the younger player so they have the extra year but asset to asset, they are relatively equal BUT not to the team trading the player. It is why we are starting to see a lot more 1st rounders traded because they don’t have the same “current” impact.

I agree that the difference is marginal offensively, but that isn't the only aspect of the game. It seems foolish to me that you would ignore the impact of players who have an argument for being the best defensive players in the entire league at their respective positions, especially considering the premium that is placed on defense in the playoffs.

Kingston also doesn't have a trade able 08 so the point is moot.

 

[OMG67]

I agree that the difference is marginal offensively, but that isn't the only aspect of the game. It seems foolish to me that you would ignore the impact of players who have an argument for being the best defensive players in the entire league at their respective positions, especially considering the premium that is placed on defense in the playoffs.

Kingston also doesn't have a trade able 08 so the point is moot.

I didn’t ignore anything. You may interpret the word Marginal as Insignificant. The difference is not insignificant when using Hopkins but it is significant enough to have to calculate what goes out vs what comes in. With ‘08s and draft picks, you don’t need to perform that calculation. A mild replacement level player can easily pick up the minutes and production from an ‘08 vs Hopkins.

Kingston is severely handcuffed in trades like these because they don’t have an ‘08 to deal. This is why the whole point of the post you chose to reply to suggested that a Kingston and SSM deal isn’t the right fit for either team which is why I suggested the NB option as likely more viable.

 

[Houndzfan20]

As much as I like Gibson I don’t think it’s worth it for the fronts to trade Hopkins for Gibson and allard. Allard is great but Heyes is performing pretty well- exceptional on the PK and very very well liked in the room. (Plus I have heard a few times ludwinski isn’t off the table)

Unless it’s strictly picks or if they would take picks and Velliaris I wouldn’t do Gibson. Now throw in Mignosa and I would trade Hopkins absolutely. Maybe put Luke McNamara in a deal like this- get rid of him and we get an upgrade in Mignosa plus arguably the top defensive d man in the league. Then use remaining picks to get Romani and a guy like Wyatt Kennedy.


Adding potentially:

Ludwinski, Gibson, Mignosa, Romani, Kennedy

Subtracting:

Hopkins, Velliaris, McNamara, tons of picks

Only thing is with this we only have 2 great centres with Guindon and ludwinski, would probably need to make another trade for a third one to play line 3 as I believe Mignosa, uronen, pickell, Soto, Heyes, Battaglia, Miedema all only play wing and I wouldn’t trust Buttar line 3 come playoff time.

I would definitely add mignosa to that package of allard and gibson if it means we would get Hopkins back.

That trade helps both teams imo.

 

[Fischhaber]

I didn’t ignore anything. You may interpret the word Marginal as Insignificant. The difference is not insignificant when using Hopkins but it is significant enough to have to calculate what goes out vs what comes in. With ‘08s and draft picks, you don’t need to perform that calculation. A mild replacement level player can easily pick up the minutes and production from an ‘08 vs Hopkins.

Kingston is severely handcuffed in trades like these because they don’t have an ‘08 to deal. This is why the whole point of the post you chose to reply to suggested that a Kingston and SSM deal isn’t the right fit for either team which is why I suggested the NB option as likely more viable.

Again, you're not losing any production in a deal like that. I'll use the word again because it is appropriate and correct. You are ignoring the defensive aspect of the game in your evaluation. Trades aren't evaluated by GM's based on how many points a player has.

I'm aware that Kingston doesn't have an 08 to deal. If you read the post that you just quoted, you see that in it's own paragraph. You know your hockey, but you're extremely difficult to have a constructive conversation with because you ignore what the other person said and go off on random tangents.

You're wrong about it being a marginal upgrade. The entire game matters and it's a huge upgrade. Let's stick to that point.

 

[leafs4life94]

He's a late bloomer and has had injury issues. He missed the entire 22-23 season due to injury. It's no surprise to anyone that pays attention that he was sent back and it's hardly unprecedented.

I didn't say he was 'worth the moon'. I said he would be an upgrade on Hopkins for this year, as he's the league's best defensive forward and hardest worker according to the coaches poll that you like to reference. In that link, you'll also find Gibson's name in both of the categories that you are misquoting me about.

2023-24 OHL Coaches Poll Results - Ontario Hockey League

Rolling out results from the 2023-24 OHL Coaches Poll, highlighting winners from across the League.

chl.ca

There is no misquoting going on. You brought up the coaches poll when hyping up Gibson. Even in the link you just posted, Allard was not the leagues best defensive forward - he was voted second best Western Conference defensive forward behind Sapovaliv.

Defend your guys, inflate their worth, just don't flat out lie while doing it. It kills any credibility of any other posts you make.

 

[Fischhaber]

There is no misquoting going on. You brought up the coaches poll when hyping up Gibson. Even in the link you just posted, Allard was not the leagues best defensive forward - he was voted second best Western Conference defensive forward behind Sapovaliv.

Defend your guys, inflate their worth, just don't flat out lie while doing it. It kills any credibility of any other posts you make.

Sapovaliv is no longer in the OHL, which would leave second place Allard as the best defensive forward, as seen by coaches.

That's a good example of how a text conversation can be misinterpreted (or misunderstood, in your case). Some studies estimate that nearly 90% of spoken conversation can be lost in text form. Keep that in mind when searching for your next 'gotchya' moment.

 

[OMG67]

Again, you're not losing any production in a deal like that. I'll use the word again because it is appropriate and correct. You are ignoring the defensive aspect of the game in your evaluation. Trades aren't evaluated by GM's based on how many points a player has.

I'm aware that Kingston doesn't have an 08 to deal. If you read the post that you just quoted, you see that in it's own paragraph. You know your hockey, but you're extremely difficult to have a constructive conversation with because you ignore what the other person said and go off on random tangents.

You're wrong about it being a marginal upgrade. The entire game matters and it's a huge upgrade. Let's stick to that point.

There is no constructive conversation really to be had. I stated in the original post that the three players best suited for Kingston included Allard and Gibson. To make room for Allard, they acquire Bowen and release Lalonde. Then I stated that without an ‘08, Kingston would be forced to include Hopkins. I stated it would amount to a marginal upgrade specifically because they’d then need to replace Hopkins production.

I get criticized for long posts so I try to keep them at least reasonably tight. I could have gone on to explain it more precisely and included all of the relevant information but the point of the post was that trading Hopkins doesn’t make sense for Kingston. They need to either acquire the 19 year old goalie (more assets going out) or release Heyes (more points production going out). The additional moving parts makes this deal difficult, more difficult than teams with ‘08s would have. Hence, the deal SSM makes is likely going to include an ‘08 because those teams are better positioned to make the deal without negatively affecting the current production.

I then went on to suggest a different deal with NB that “may” potentially primarily involve draft picks. That deal may be a better fit for Kingston because of how they are handcuffed.

Yes, I could have fully vetted out the explanation in the original post pertaining to the logic behind the SSM v Kingston trade but with so many people over the years criticizing me for long posts, I try hard to make them smaller posts. I assumed stating it would be a marginal upgrade would at least point to the fact that assets going out are significant to the current roster and the fit isn’t there. IT wasn’t meant to marginalized the quality of the SSM players. I understand both are good players and SSM will get proper value from a team likely in a better position and able to move an ‘08 to facilitate the trade.

I hope this makes it more clear that the point I made with SSM in the OP was more to eliminate them as a potential trade aprtner in an effort to focus the discussion on more viable trade partners.

 

[frontsfan67]

Sapovaliv is no longer in the OHL, which would leave second place Allard as the best defensive forward, as seen by coaches.

That's a good example of how a text conversation can be misinterpreted (or misunderstood, in your case). Some studies estimate that nearly 90% of spoken conversation can be lost in text form. Keep that in mind when searching for your next 'gotchya' moment.

The thing is though this year it could be different altogether. If you said “one of” that would be completely accurate. “The best” can be argued.

 

[leafs4life94]

Sapovaliv is no longer in the OHL, which would leave second place Allard as the best defensive forward, as seen by coaches.

That's a good example of how a text conversation can be misinterpreted (or misunderstood, in your case). Some studies estimate that nearly 90% of spoken conversation can be lost in text form. Keep that in mind when searching for your next 'gotchya' moment.

That's not at all what it means... what if there's a player that has improved and is now better defensively than Allard? What if Allard's defensive game has regressed in the eyes of the coaches? As of last year yes he is best defensive forward that played in the Western Conference that is still in the OHL. That DOES NOT mean he is currently the best defensive forward. Are you also going to claim he is again the most improved player in the league because he won that award last year?

Even if you want use that your backwards interpretation of the poll - what does that mean for Gibson? The 2 people above him for defensive defenseman are still in the OHL.

I'm not looking for a gotcha moment - I'm trying to have a conversation about potential trades and it's been polluted with hometown lies.

 

[Fischhaber]

The thing is though this year it could be different altogether. If you said “one of” that would be completely accurate. “The best” can be argued.

"players who have an argument for being the best defensive players in the entire league at their respective positions" (with respect to Gibson and Allard)

This is what I said. I don't think it's especially controversial. You're really just making my point stronger by misreading what I had said.

I'm certainly guilty of the same thing sometimes and I don't mean to make this into a pissing match or anything (I've blocked the leafs guy for making personal attacks rather than good hockey discussion). This forum should be about hockey and I think we've discussed the topic sufficiently.

Thanks for the chat and good luck to the Frontenacs. I have some friends involved with the team and I'll be hoping that they do well in the playoffs. My desire to see them make a good trade stems from that friendship. Go Fronts!

 

[leafs4life94]

"players who have an argument for being the best defensive players in the entire league at their respective positions"

This is what I said. I don't think it's especially controversial.

You literally just said this:

Sapovaliv is no longer in the OHL, which would leave second place Allard as the best defensive forward, as seen by coaches.

That's a good example of how a text conversation can be misinterpreted (or misunderstood, in your case). Some studies estimate that nearly 90% of spoken conversation can be lost in text form. Keep that in mind when searching for your next 'gotchya' moment.

You didn't say he's in the conversation, you didn't say one of - you said THE BEST. The sad thing is I don't even think this is a bit...

 

[leafs4life94]

Obviously Kingston doesn't have very many more potential commits with their recent drafting, the main one they likely still have the rights to being Manza (who I wonder if he'd be usable as a trade chip if he's willing to report somewhere else), but I wonder if Kingston looks to the BCHL or USHL for some free agent depth additions. They don't have the best recruiting record but if they could get a depth RD or a 3rd line C for free that'd be huge.

Still a little annoyed they lost Fimis - he'd have been a really nice add at RD.

 

[frontsfan67]

"players who have an argument for being the best defensive players in the entire league at their respective positions" (with respect to Gibson and Allard)

My bad I don’t think I read it properly just was going off what it seemed like other people were saying. Yes they’re definitely some of the best in the west and league with what they do. Allard as a defensive forward and Gibson with the defensive d man.

Thanks for the chat and good luck to the Frontenacs. I have some friends involved with the team and I'll be hoping that they do well in the playoffs. My desire to see them make a good trade stems from that friendship. Go Fronts!

Thank you! Good chat. Hopefully the hounds don’t struggle too much in the second half with guys getting traded.

 

[ScoutLife4]

Kingston doesn’t have anything concrete yet.
I do know they are VERY interested in Pinelli.
Everyone is waiting for Barrie to make their move to see what’s left.
Once Parker Vaughn situation gets sorted (if it does)
Also Erie has been shopping Challenger like crazy but I think most teams with an elite player to move want Parker Vaughn.
Also Intrested to see if Oshawa convinces the Smith family into a trade so they can acquire a big name.

 

[Houndzfan20]

That's not at all what it means... what if there's a player that has improved and is now better defensively than Allard? What if Allard's defensive game has regressed in the eyes of the coaches? As of last year yes he is best defensive forward that played in the Western Conference that is still in the OHL. That DOES NOT mean he is currently the best defensive forward. Are you also going to claim he is again the most improved player in the league because he won that award last year?

Even if you want use that your backwards interpretation of the poll - what does that mean for Gibson? The 2 people above him for defensive defenseman are still in the OHL.

I'm not looking for a gotcha moment - I'm trying to have a conversation about potential trades and it's been polluted with hometown lies.

Bruh, every hounds fan will tell you. It's not worth it. It's like talking to a wall. It's not worth it lol

 

[leafs4life94]

Bruh, every hounds fan will tell you. It's not worth it. It's like talking to a wall. It's not worth it lol

Lol well I got sent a message saying I had a personal vendetta and I got put on ignored so I guess that's that.

The dumb thing is I think a Gibson/Allard does make a lot of sense for Kingston, especially if they also make a Bowen (or maybe Gillespie) trade and move on from Lalonde so they don't need to move on from Heyes.