Kingston Frontenacs 2024-25 Season Thread, Part I

[leafs4life94]

The problem is that there is a complete lack of good goalies that are not OAs. The vacuum for goaltending in the OHL right now is crazy.

Look at Leenders and Ivankovic. Both were considered too 5 coming into the season. Both play on pretty good squads. Ivankovic is with Team Canada right now sitting at 16th on GAA with a save% under .900. Leenders is 22nd in GAA with an .891!

There is no wonder there has been extensive talk about allowing an OA goalie to not count against the three OA slots.

Parsons and Flores are the only OA goalies available that may move the needle. I thought MacK would be as well but he has been poor this year. Maybe Schenkel will be available too?

I don’t have the answer but what I do know is Kingston has other gaps that need to be resolved, otherwise the goaltending is inconsequential. Goaltending is just another gap. Ya gotta fill all the gaps to have a real chance. Fixing goaltending at the cost of not fixing the defence isn’t an option IMO.

Agreed they need a top 4 (ideally RD) defensemen, as well as an injection of depth offense into their top 9 F, whether that comes via a C, a RW (OA upgrade on Heyes?) - who knows.

I'm not sure goalies are as bad as you're making it out - there's 13 goalies over 0.900 SV% right now, and last year only 6 goalies ended over that mark (Leenders, George, Simpson, Oster, Sztuska and MacKenzie) - which honestly has me wondering if I need to adjust my benchmark for a good SV% in this league, if only 6 ended over 0.900 then maybe it's harder to achieve than I originally thought.

Of the 13, 4 are OAs, 5 are '05s, 3 are '06s and there's one '07 in Medvedev - Elliott will eventually gain enough games to get in that group as well.

The issue is that I don't know if any of the non-OAs are on the market because they're either contending now or they're primed for next year (or both).

Kingston has a solid stash of picks to make upgrades, but their lack of player assets could and will likely end up impacting their deadline targets if teams are insistent on getting a player in return.

 

[leafs4life94]

Unrelated to all this goalie talk, but I heard through the grapevine that Kieren Dervin is with the team this weekend and will make his debut tonight.

Yeah I believe he was added to the roster online roster earlier this week so I fully expect him to play at least 2 games this weekend.

I'll be curious to see if the Finns are playing this weekend - I figured they'd be gone but I saw on the London thread they expect to have Nurmi and Haltunnen all weekend so maybe Kingston won't be super short?

I'm also curious on the status of McGowan - if him and Pieniniemi are out the D will be very interesting to watch.

 

[OMG67]

Agreed they need a top 4 (ideally RD) defensemen, as well as an injection of depth offense into their top 9 F, whether that comes via a C, a RW (OA upgrade on Heyes?) - who knows.

I'm not sure goalies are as bad as you're making it out - there's 13 goalies over 0.900 SV% right now, and last year only 6 goalies ended over that mark (Leenders, George, Simpson, Oster, Sztuska and MacKenzie) - which honestly has me wondering if I need to adjust my benchmark for a good SV% in this league, if only 6 ended over 0.900 then maybe it's harder to achieve than I originally thought.

Of the 13, 4 are OAs, 5 are '05s, 3 are '06s and there's one '07 in Medvedev - Elliott will eventually gain enough games to get in that group as well.

The issue is that I don't know if any of the non-OAs are on the market because they're either contending now or they're primed for next year (or both).

Kingston has a solid stash of picks to make upgrades, but their lack of player assets could and will likely end up impacting their deadline targets if teams are insistent on getting a player in return.

I think the only non-OA potentially on the market is George. I think you need to look at the Leenders deal as the benchmark and George is likely considered the better goalie.

The challenge is the selling teams typically don’t have a stud goalie that is not an OA. If they had a stud non-OA goalie, they’d probably not be selling!

I thought we would see a better crop of OA goalies this year to be honest. As mentioned, I thought MacK would be there as well as Sztuska. The latter is currently in the BCHL. Flores has been really good though. That may be a decent value upgrade?

 

[GoFronts]

Yeah I believe he was added to the roster online roster earlier this week so I fully expect him to play at least 2 games this weekend.

I'll be curious to see if the Finns are playing this weekend - I figured they'd be gone but I saw on the London thread they expect to have Nurmi and Haltunnen all weekend so maybe Kingston won't be super short?

I'm also curious on the status of McGowan - if him and Pieniniemi are out the D will be very interesting to watch.

I saw that they used Pieniniemi in the game day graphic on their socials, I'd assume they wouldn't do that unless he was playing? Who knows though lol. I'd bet on the Finns being around for at least tonight's game.

It's odd that Finland hasn't posted their roster yet while I'm pretty sure every other country participating has.

As for Maleek, apparently he practiced yesterday. The crutches someone said he was on earlier this week must have been precautionary.

 

[leafs4life94]

I think the only non-OA potentially on the market is George. I think you need to look at the Leenders deal as the benchmark and George is likely considered the better goalie.

The challenge is the selling teams typically don’t have a stud goalie that is not an OA. If they had a stud non-OA goalie, they’d probably not be selling!

I thought we would see a better crop of OA goalies this year to be honest. As mentioned, I thought MacK would be there as well as Sztuska. The latter is currently in the BCHL. Flores has been really good though. That may be a decent value upgrade?

If Niagara sells (which I get the sense they aren't - seems tough to argue they should based on results but almost 42 shots a game doesn't seem too sustainable) then I'd love a Flores trade.

If we start at the Leenders value, that's 3 2's, 3 3's, a 4 and a 5. Kingston could move that and still have 3 2s, 5 3s, 3 4s and 4 5s - and it definitely would take a couple extra picks since like you said he's the better goalie.

Then, they could trade Battaglia and George next year and recoup a massive chunk of those picks to put them back in a decent spot moving forward.

It seems like a somewhat weak OA year overall with no OAs in the top 10 in scoring, with only 2 in the top 20.

I saw that they used Pieniniemi in the game day graphic on their socials, I'd assume they wouldn't do that unless he was playing? Who knows though lol. I'd bet on the Finns being around for at least tonight's game.

It's odd that Finland hasn't posted their roster yet while I'm pretty sure every other country participating has.

As for Maleek, apparently he practiced yesterday. The crutches someone said he was on earlier this week must have been precautionary.

Yeah I wouldn't totally trust the gameday graphic - I get the feeling they just rotate players, I remember last year they used Salajko for one and he didn't even start/play lol

Depending on what Finlands plans are for a camp, I'd be a little surprised if they travelled to Kitchener for a game then went back to Ottawa for another but if Kingston really needs them maybe they do?

That's big re: McGowan - he's probably been the most improved player IMO.

 

[frontsfan67]

There are 20 man on the team, how come only Lalonde gets the blame, where were all the other players on the ice?

We outplay almost every team we face with the exception of Oshawa. We still drop a lot of games.

Not very good save % and it’s been like this consistently throughout his career so I wouldn’t expect it to just all of the sudden jump way up. A guy like parsons who is doing more with less would be a phenomenal add to the team- that’s the reality of it. We might still be able to win a round with Lalonde as the starting goalie but do we get past Oster/Hillebrandt/Elliot/Leenders/Ivankovic if Brampton steps up with Lalonde as our goalie? IMO very unlikely so there’s a clear need to upgrade.

Great Kingston kid and went to the memorial cup but that trade never made sense right from the get go, guys like Liam sztuska, Jackson parsons were always going to be available and we elected to just go for the hometown kid which is probably not what is best for the team. Might put his family and friends in the seats but that is all.

Vaccari would get some blame but we are used to him- we know he probably doesn’t get a spot on any team next year except for maybe here just to take some of the load off Betts next year. 5’9 goalie showed some potential his first year- since he doesn’t have much confidence and hasn’t grown both physically and skill wise.

Unrelated to all this goalie talk, but I heard through the grapevine that Kieren Dervin is with the team this weekend and will make his debut tonight.

Awesome can’t wait to see him finally

 

[Fastpace]

I am not disputing his talent or lack of, I am merely suggesting singularizing only him out of 20 isn't right. The team is call Kingston Frontenac's, not Kingston Lalonde's. He's a member of this 20 or so men team until the GM says he isn't so anymore., best accepting him as he is, a Kingston Frontenac's member of the team

 

[leafs4life94]

I am not disputing his talent or lack of, I am merely suggesting singularizing only him out of 20 isn't right. The team is call Kingston Frontenac's, not Kingston Lalonde's. He's a member of this 20 or so men team until the GM says he isn't so anymore., best accepting him as he is, a Kingston Frontenac's member of the team

You really don't think a goalie is different? That a goalie doesn't have more of an impact on a game than a skater?

Does the same apply to skaters? Is it wrong to criticize a winger if they played a bad game or have had a bad run because there's 4 other skaters on the ice?

It's criticism of a player based on results and stats thus far. It's not a witch hunt, it's wishing misfortune on him - it's observations after watching several games this year backed up with numbers.

 

[Fastpace]

You really don't think a goalie is different? That a goalie doesn't have more of an impact on a game than a skater?

Does the same apply to skaters? Is it wrong to criticize a winger if they played a bad game or have had a bad run because there's 4 other skaters on the ice?

It's criticism of a player based on results and stats thus far. It's not a witch hunt, it's wishing misfortune on him - it's observations after watching several games this year backed up with numbers.

I couldn't care less about individual stats on social pages unless they are team stats, as a hockey fans I support and accept all members of a team, as all players on this team accept their teammates. Go ask anyone of them if they blame Lalonde or care for any of his stats? They will all tell you, each player roles on this team comes first, why should anyone of us care for individual stats? Only GM cares, when they are seeking or trading a player

 

[leafs4life94]

I couldn't care less about individual stats on social pages unless they are team stats, as a hockey fans I support and accept all members of a team, as all players on this team accept their teammates. Go ask anyone of them if they blame Lalonde or care for any of his stats? They will all tell you, each player roles on this team comes first, why should anyone of us care for individual stats? Only GM cares, when they are seeking or trading a player

What are you even saying... You're acting like I said they should take him outside and give him the Old Yeller treatment...

And let me just get this straight - you're saying if a goalie gave up a shot on every single shot they faced you'd be fine with that because individual stats don't matter?

 

[leafs4life94]

McGowan is in and so are the Finns, with Lalonde starting

Dervin lines up at 3C in between McNamara and Uronen, with Pickell pushed down to the 4th to play with Clark and Buttar.

I like that they're giving Dervin a chance to play in the top 9 - good chance to really see what they've got with him.

Edit - no Chromiak for Kitchener, likely for WJC - good for Kingston because that felt like a revenge game in waiting lol

 

[Fastpace]

What are you even saying... You're acting like I said they should take him outside and give him the Old Yeller treatment...

And let me just get this straight - you're saying if a goalie gave up a shot on every single shot they faced you'd be fine with that because individual stats don't matter?

No! You are saying what you think I am saying.

If you want to really help a player, don't bring his fault in a public forum for him and all his friends to read, he doesn't need this, there will be plenty of times to deal with this as an adult. No problem criticizing the team on their public page, as a team they can deal with that, without naming individuals. Perhaps if you bring the individual player(s) for private discussion on private pages, and invite all your friends to participate there. Most players are fully aware of their mistakes, they have coaches and professionals to work with their problems, but to read it on public pages is demeaning and embarrassing for any of them.

I am not telling anyone what to do, I am merely suggesting. I will, however, always come to any young player's defense on any team, friends or foes, that are degraded on public pages. Think about all the junior player suicides of late and mental issues it brings to depressed players, when they are publically embarrassed on social forum, it is very impactful on a young player. Cheers!

 

[frontsfan67]

No! You are saying what you think I am saying.

If you want to really help a player, don't bring his fault in a public forum for him and all his friends to read, he doesn't need this, there will be plenty of times to deal with this as an adult. No problem criticizing the team on their public page, as a team they can deal with that, without naming individuals. Perhaps if you bring the individual player(s) for private discussion on private pages, and invite all your friends to participate there. Most players are fully aware of their mistakes, they have coaches and professionals to work with their problems, but to read it on public pages is demeaning and embarrassing for any of them.

I am not telling anyone what to do, I am merely suggesting. I will, however, always come to any young player's defense on any team, friends or foes, that are degraded on public pages. Think about all the junior player suicides of late and mental issues it brings to depressed players, when they are publically embarrassed on social forum, it is very impactful on a young player. Cheers!

Ok so 1 London player does it and now all of the sudden on a hockey board we can’t talk hockey?

It’s nothing personal just there is better goalies out there.

 

[Houndzfan20]

Ok so 1 London player does it and now all of the sudden on a hockey board we can’t talk hockey?

It’s nothing personal just there is better goalies out there.

Bruh it's not worth it. It's a losing battle lol

 

[Fastpace]

Ok so 1 London player does it and now all of the sudden on a hockey board we can’t talk hockey?

It’s nothing personal just there is better goalies out there.

Wrong, I would suggest you do a research, maybe start with Google, I follow as much as I can all three CHL leagues, USHL, over sea leagues and all junior age players Junior A and B leagues. You will be shock to find out how many, find out about Terry Trafford to begin with, even one is one too many

 

[OMG67]

Wrong, I would suggest you do a research, maybe start with Google, I follow as much as I can all three CHL leagues, USHL, over sea leagues and all junior age players Junior A and B leagues. You will be shock to find out how many, find out about Terry Trafford to begin with, even one is one too many

I understand where you are coming from; however, I think there are ways to discuss deficiencies and track record about specific players that should not be embarrassing or disrespectful. I have commented a lot on Elliott’s poor playoff performances and the fact he has lost the net multiple times over his time in Saskatoon and I question the validity of him being a starter that can be counted on for the London Knights. I also pointed out deficiencies in Lalonde’s game this past summer and questioned why the Fronts would add him and expect him to be a viable starter. I don’t believe that crosses the line.

Part of the growth in Junior hockey is accepting criticism, warranted or unwarranted, and move forward. If any player has mental health issues, it is not because of social media forums like this. That mental health issue was already there. It would be disingenuous to suggest that comments on this forum are impactful to the point that it pushes a player over the edge.

I can understand when the criticism is personal but not when it relates to overall performance.

Players are compared all the time. This one is better than that one. They should get rid of player “X” and pick up player “Y.” Etc etc etc. I think that conversation is fine.

So, unless I am missing something or misread a comment or am misunderstanding what you are saying, I am not sure there should be criticism handed out to posters on this thread. I am sure there are some posts that cross the line but I am not sure that exists here but I am more than willing to be proven wrong if I totally missed a comment somewhere.

 

[Fastpace]

I understand where you are coming from; however, I think there are ways to discuss deficiencies and track record about specific players that should not be embarrassing or disrespectful. I have commented a lot on Elliott’s poor playoff performances and the fact he has lost the net multiple times over his time in Saskatoon and I question the validity of him being a starter that can be counted on for the London Knights. I also pointed out deficiencies in Lalonde’s game this past summer and questioned why the Fronts would add him and expect him to be a viable starter. I don’t believe that crosses the line.

Part of the growth in Junior hockey is accepting criticism, warranted or unwarranted, and move forward. If any player has mental health issues, it is not because of social media forums like this. That mental health issue was already there. It would be disingenuous to suggest that comments on this forum are impactful to the point that it pushes a player over the edge.

I can understand when the criticism is personal but not when it relates to overall performance.

Players are compared all the time. This one is better than that one. They should get rid of player “X” and pick up player “Y.” Etc etc etc. I think that conversation is fine.

So, unless I am missing something or misread a comment or am misunderstanding what you are saying, I am not sure there should be criticism handed out to posters on this thread. I am sure there are some posts that cross the line but I am not sure that exists here but I am more than willing to be proven wrong if I totally missed a comment somewhere.

I totally agree with you, however diplomacy is not always on the minds of public posters, especially when they are angry after a loss

 

[OMG67]

I totally agree with you, however diplomacy is not always on the minds of public posters, especially when they are angry after a loss

That’s fair. I can see where you are coming from. Sometimes the ensuing conversation can get more animated. I’m guilty of that at times too.

 

[frontsfan67]

Wrong, I would suggest you do a research, maybe start with Google, I follow as much as I can all three CHL leagues, USHL, over sea leagues and all junior age players Junior A and B leagues. You will be shock to find out how many, find out about Terry Trafford to begin with, even one is one too many

Terry Trafford was over 10 years ago.

You know how much nhl players get cut up and people privately message them on instagram just because of lost bets etc.

saying that Lalonde isn’t the greatest in the league which is purely factual isn’t going to make the guy want to do any self harm. Im not targeting the guy saying anything bad just that we could use an upgrade in net which is purely factual.

If you don’t like upgrades or trades or if anything is hitting too close to home I suggest you delete your account on here because there is a lot of trade talk. Dont take anything personally.

Goalie is the most important position and always has been. If you don’t have a goalie it doesn’t matter how many goals you score another team can always score more. A goalie like parsons or even Flores steals games by themself. I haven’t seen that one with Lalonde yet. It’s fine in the regular season we are doing alright but what would you rather have?

Alexandre Georgiev in the NHL or Igor Shesterkin? Goaltending is HUGE for a team. You can have solid forwards and defence and still lose. Look at Colorado since they won their cup.

 

[frontsfan67]

I missed the first period. Glad we are ahead right now. I assume pickell got smoked in that fight?