Kingston Frontenacs 2023-24 Off-Season Thread (Part 4)

[OMG67]

Guindon hasn’t improved (statistically) in the last two seasons. He may be more effective in the key areas than he was as a rookie, no doubt, but is he really a bonafide #1 Centre on a team that wants to throw their hat in the ring as a contender? The kid was -30 on a .500 team that had Colby Barlow as a -1. His line was getting massively outplayed 5 on 5 to end up with those numbers. He played as the 2nd line centre on a .500 team and didn’t produce positively. Now as a 20 year old he is going to turn it around on a contender as a #1C? Maybe he will but Cooper just paid for something he hasn’t ever produced.

I could see this type of return as a deadline trade if there were a lack of centres available, no problem. That would be comparable to the Maillet and Kressler deals (both centres in a sellers market) but this market is shaping up to be a buyers market with a dearth of OAs available and teams needing to move bodies out. There will be some very good deals to be had strictly out of necessity.

 

[zaluty]

Now trade Frasca for a few picks, then acquire Andonovski from Kitchener and it will be an interesting year.

 

[ScoutLife4]

Exactly. I thought there would be more 2nds and 3rds lol. Only 2nds and 3rds were in 2027 and 2028 that’s an awesome trade imo

It’s not even close to an overpay.
Check out the Brampton Kitchener trade if you wanna see an overpay

 

[frontsfan67]

It’s not even close to an overpay.
Check out the Brampton Kitchener trade if you wanna see an overpay

No I’m on the side where I don’t think it’s an overpay at all.

We didn’t even use too many high picks on him and the 2 higher picks we used are in 2027 and 2028. Awesome value for Guindon even if some other fans from other teams don’t think so this is exactly what the fronts needed and I don’t think they’re even close to being done.

 

[Petes1987]

Exactly. I thought there would be more 2nds and 3rds lol. Only 2nds and 3rds were in 2027 and 2028 that’s an awesome trade imo

The return Owen Sound got us actually is a lot more than similar players went for preseason/early season in previous years. In 2022 London got George Diaco for a 2nd and a 3rd from Hamilton and Sault Ste Marie got Jack Beck from Ottawa also for a 2nd and a 3rd.

 

[OMG67]

It’s not even close to an overpay.
Check out the Brampton Kitchener trade if you wanna see an overpay

We can revisit this in November when we see some of the other OA deals when teams are trying to find landing spots for excess OA’s.

Rehkopf is a bonafide OHL Star and is only 19 years old. You should know better than most that the difference between a 100 point 19 year old and a 60 point OA is quite different. Essentially, if Kingston had have doubled the picks in the deal, they’d have had Rehkopf instead of Guindon AND would have still had an open OA spot.

 

[ScoutLife4]

We can revisit this in November when we see some of the other OA deals when teams are trying to find landing spots for excess OA’s.

Rehkopf is a bonafide OHL Star and is only 19 years old. You should know better than most that the difference between a 100 point 19 year old and a 60 point OA is quite different. Essentially, if Kingston had have doubled the picks in the deal, they’d have had Rehkopf instead of Guindon AND would have still had an open OA spot.

And they would be out of picks to make any improvements to their defence and probably finish 5-6th with a 2nd round exit.
Guidon can put up 80.
Rehkoph might crack a 100.
That 20pt different cost them a whole lot.
Brampton still has a suspect D imo they will need to make more improvements on the backend.

 

[OMG67]

And they would be out of picks to make any improvements to their defence and probably finish 5-6th with a 2nd round exit.
Guidon can put up 80.
Rehkoph might crack a 100.
That 20pt different cost them a whole lot.
Brampton still has a suspect D imo they will need to make more improvements on the backend.

Brampton has two open OA spots. They can fill both of those spots on the OA market and it won’t be for a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th. That is the luxury of acquiring the 19 year old. You keep low pick cost options open in the OA roster spots.

Brampton has just thrown a grenade on the eastern Conference. I highly doubt they stop there. There is a reason they kept THREE of their 2024 2nd and it isn’t to use them to pick players.

EDIT:
Keep in mind that if the Fronts had traded Ludwinski last year for the same package they got for Arcuri, they could have bundled those picks with the Guindon picks…. That is why you make seller moves when not in contention. It opens the door for bigger moves the next year.

 

[ScoutLife4]

Kitchener is very Interested in Frasca.

Also was just told Kingston is making a push to get Mews out of Ottawa.

See what unfolds nothing official yet.

 

[frontsfan67]

And they would be out of picks to make any improvements to their defence and probably finish 5-6th with a 2nd round exit.
Guidon can put up 80.
Rehkoph might crack a 100.
That 20pt different cost them a whole lot.
Brampton still has a suspect D imo they will need to make more improvements on the backend.

Top line of Rehkopf-Misa-martone will all prob put up 100+ points.

My pre season pick to win the scoring title was Rehkopf- now wjc may hurt that a bit but he’s going to be top 3 in points and goals without question.

 

[Stellar29]

Guindon hasn’t improved (statistically) in the last two seasons. He may be more effective in the key areas than he was as a rookie, no doubt, but is he really a bonafide #1 Centre on a team that wants to throw their hat in the ring as a contender? The kid was -30 on a .500 team that had Colby Barlow as a -1. His line was getting massively outplayed 5 on 5 to end up with those numbers. He played as the 2nd line centre on a .500 team and didn’t produce positively. Now as a 20 year old he is going to turn it around on a contender as a #1C? Maybe he will but Cooper just paid for something he hasn’t ever produced.

I could see this type of return as a deadline trade if there were a lack of centres available, no problem. That would be comparable to the Maillet and Kressler deals (both centres in a sellers market) but this market is shaping up to be a buyers market with a dearth of OAs available and teams needing to move bodies out. There will be some very good deals to be had strictly out of necessity.

Don't scout the stat line on Guindon, he's better than the line on paper. The team was a total cluster you know what last year in Owen Sound with not a whole lot of offensive bright spots. He's a legit 1C and with some actual systems and structure he should produce 80 plus points. He can play all situations and a solid leader/teammate as well. I'm pretty confident it won't be a move Kingston regrets.

 

[OMG67]

Kitchener is very Interested in Frasca.

Also was just told Kingston is making a push to get Mews out of Ottawa.

See what unfolds nothing official yet.

That would be a very good two part series of deals for Kingston. Kitchener now has the draft picks!

This is getting exciting! I hope it happens. As much as people may feel I am a Kingston hater, I actually hope the best for the team. I just wish things came a little easier for them.

Don't scout the stat line on Guindon, he's better than the line on paper. The team was a total cluster you know what last year in Owen Sound with not a whole lot of offensive bright spots. He's a legit 1C and with some actual systems and structure he should produce 80 plus points. He can play all situations and a solid leader/teammate as well. I'm pretty confident it won't be a move Kingston regrets.

That wasn’t my point. My point was he hasn’t demonstrated it. In a season full of excess OA’s, I question his value considering he has not demonstrated the ability to translate that skill into results indicative of his trade value and current market structure.

 

[dirty12]

We can revisit this in November when we see some of the other OA deals when teams are trying to find landing spots for excess OA’s.

Rehkopf is a bonafide OHL Star and is only 19 years old. You should know better than most that the difference between a 100 point 19 year old and a 60 point OA is quite different. Essentially, if Kingston had have doubled the picks in the deal, they’d have had Rehkopf instead of Guindon AND would have still had an open OA spot.

Would Rehkopf waive NTC this early for Kingston? Brampton gets him closer to home.

There will be excess OAs at LW, G, possibly LD. There will not be excess #1 OA centres. The return for all-purpose #1 Wakely wil be significantly more, rightfully so.

 

[OMG67]

Would Rehkopf waive NTC this early for Kingston? Brampton gets him closer to home.

There will be excess OAs at LW, G, possibly LD. There will not be excess #1 OA centres. The return for all-purpose #1 Wakely wil be significantly more, rightfully so.

Maybe Rehkopf wouldn’t waive his NTC to go to Kingston but another elite player likely would. That is why trading Ludkinski to add to the draft picks pool was the right move. They cold go get a 19 year old elite centre and then augment with OA’s the positions that show as gaps.

If they trade Franca and then flip those picks to Ottawa for Mews then all works out jsut fine in the end.

 

[Stellar29]

That would be a very good two part series of deals for Kingston. Kitchener now has the draft picks!

This is getting exciting! I hope it happens. As much as people may feel I am a Kingston hater, I actually hope the best for the team. I just wish things came a little easier for them.



That wasn’t my point. My point was he hasn’t demonstrated it. In a season full of excess OA’s, I question his value considering he has not demonstrated the ability to translate that skill into results indicative of his trade value and current market structure.

I think the "demonstrate the ability to translate skill into results" is a question for the scouting staff who would regularly evaluate the players in the league. I don't think Kingston would pull the trigger unless they were comfortable with the answer.

The value question would come to what "excess OAs" available out there could be had right now that would produce similar results with a similar fit for a cheaper cost? Most teams aren't parting with that type of player at this time of year generally. I'm sure that contributes to the assets cost paid.

 

[OMG67]

I think the "demonstrate the ability to translate skill into results" is a question for the scouting staff who would regularly evaluate the players in the league. I don't think Kingston would pull the trigger unless they were comfortable with the answer.

The value question would come to what "excess OAs" available out there could be had right now that would produce similar results with a similar fit for a cheaper cost? Most teams aren't parting with that type of player at this time of year generally. I'm sure that contributes to the assets cost paid.

If you are preparing for the playoffs, you don’t need to be hasty. You only need to be ready for the deadline. It pays to be patient sometimes. That November deadline to get down to four OA’s may prove to be painful for teams potentially holding on to excess OA’s. You also give players like Hopkins an opportunity to show what he has. If he shows as regressed instead of improved, does that change the strategy for the team?

IMO, if you are acquiring an OA early, it is either because you feel it is cheaper now than at the deadline OR you are jsut trying to get something cheap as a placeholder. This is neither. If Kingston were to make Guindon available at the deadline as a player projecting to score 30-80, they’d only get what they paid for him in return, maybe less if it is a buyers market.

 

[frontsfan67]

With the Rehkopf move I wonder what this means for Owen sound and Barlow? Also does the rest of the east buy early now rather than at the deadline? In my opinion Rehkopf would be the biggest name traded this year along with Barlow and he already is gone and for only picks

 

[OHL4Life]

With the Rehkopf move I wonder what this means for Owen sound and Barlow? Also does the rest of the east buy early now rather than at the deadline? In my opinion Rehkopf would be the biggest name traded this year along with Barlow and he already is gone and for only picks

I can’t see Owen sound moving him for just picks.

 

[frontsfan67]

I can’t see Owen sound moving him for just picks.

I agree. I didn’t think there was a chance in hell Rehkopf would go for picks either though or anywhere near this early. Junior hockey never disappoints.

 

[ScoutLife4]

I agree. I didn’t think there was a chance in hell Rehkopf would go for picks either though or anywhere near this early. Junior hockey never disappoints.

JR hockey is so unpredictable.
I’ve seen so many Twitter experts get it wrong over and over again when making predictions and trying to judge value or return on trades.

Imagine the 1% chance of Ludwinski coming back comes to life?
Sure would make for an interesting trade deadline and give Cooper some thinking to do.

 

[frontsfan67]

JR hockey is so unpredictable.
I’ve seen so many Twitter experts get it wrong over and over again when making predictions and trying to judge value or return on trades.

Imagine the 1% chance of Ludwinski coming back comes to life?
Sure would make for an interesting trade deadline and give Cooper some thinking to do.

I’ve been thinking of that all summer since Ludwinskis trial in the A’

Don’t think it’ll happen but would be a nice surprise

 

[ScoutLife4]

I’ve been thinking of that all summer since Ludwinskis trial in the A’

Don’t think it’ll happen but would be a nice surprise

I personally don’t think he’s ready for the Ahl.
It doesn’t make much sense for Chicago to pay him for another season of Junior though either.

 

[OMG67]

JR hockey is so unpredictable.
I’ve seen so many Twitter experts get it wrong over and over again when making predictions and trying to judge value or return on trades.

Imagine the 1% chance of Ludwinski coming back comes to life?
Sure would make for an interesting trade deadline and give Cooper some thinking to do.

The problem is you cannot operate and make decisions based on the 1% chance. If you get lucky then so be it but no one, not even Cooper would come out and say the reason why they didn’t trade Ludwinski is because he may return as a valuable OA. It may happen. Things like that do on rare occasions. If he returns, the Twitter Experts” wouldn’t be wrong on their assertions. They will typically account for a deviation from the mean when calculating trade values. So, even though Rehkopf went early and for just a draft picks package, that package was same/similar to Mintyukov. If you were to ask any of those Twitter experts (assuming they are experts), they would say “If, and that’s a big IF, Rehkopf were to be traded for only picks, the most recent comparable would be the Mintyukov trade.” So, this Rehkopf trade shouldn’t be a complete shock. I think in light of the fact teams like Kingston and Brampton don’t have a 1st round pick to trade, we may see a lot more picks only deals, or at least deals not including key prospects.

 

[three dog night]

Now trade Frasca for a few picks, then acquire Andonovski from Kitchener and it will be an interesting year.

Will he come to Niagara to play with brother.

 

[frontsfan67]

I personally don’t think he’s ready for the Ahl.
It doesn’t make much sense for Chicago to pay him for another season of Junior though either.

Yeah if he had more consistency he would be in the A for sure but I find with him he’s great for 5-10 games and then slows down but doesn’t disappear for 5-10

I think he has higher odds of playing in the echl before the ahl but echl hockey isn’t a super far drop off from OHL hockey imo. Haven’t watched too many games so there is that but anybody too good for the echl just goes on to the ahl or nhl where as sometimes 18-19 year old ohlers that would be good ahlers at that age still can’t go to the ahl until they’re 20 because of the agreement.

IF it came down to echl/chl- the chl route may be favourable. A comparable player to ludwinski would be Josh bloom and since coming back to Saginaw as an OA it appears he gained confidence and produced more. Now he may be ahl ready. Ludwinski was a 2nd round, Bloom a 3rd. Could be a similar scenario.

Ludwinskis nhl projection as of now I think would be an 2 way energy player in the bottom 6 for Chicago.

Will he come to Niagara to play with brother.

Probably a dark horse team but I don’t think Niagara would give the best deal for frasca. Also don’t think it would be the best fit. He wouldn’t be a top line centre there either which is what he wants apparently.

Since he is disgruntled, Kory Cooper is probably looking for the best deals available.

Just my opinion- not an insider