Kingston Frontenacs 2023-24 Off-Season Thread (Part 4)

[ScoutLife4]

for what its worth, i think its done.

I wouldn't have posted it if it wasn't from a trusted source.
Do you know what exact day trade window opens again? (I cant remember)

 

[dirty12]

I wouldn't have posted it if it wasn't from a trusted source.
Do you know what exact day trade window opens again? (I cant remember)

It should be Thursday, August 1.

 

[OMG67]

I just realized 2021 Mews and Battaglia were on the same GTHL team.
Frasca's stock is no doubt down right now but Mews is down too imo,.

Mews was a player that was supposed to go first round in early season rankings and fell to 3rd round and is severally lacking a psychical side to his game.

With that said i just don't see Ottawa sending him to Kingston regardless of what the family, player and agent want. -I'm sure Calgary will also be getting involved if not already.

Mews still doubled his offensive stats from his 16 to 17 year old season. Mews isn’t an elite NHL prospect because he lacks defensive awareness but at the OHL level which is what his OHL team cares about when acquiring the player (what are you going to do for me?), he is an elite scoring RHD. I may have issues with portions of his game as did the NHL scouts but if you are an OHL team that needs a first pair RHD that can QB your power play and put up 80 points as an 18 year old and know he will also play as a 19 year old (or he can be a sell off piece to recoup assets), I don’t think him being a 3rd rounder instead of a 2nd rounder means all that much from the perspective of a drop in “OHL trade value.” Fresca, on the other hand, is a player that wants out on a team that doesn’t want him there anymore. One is likely a trade deadline deal and the other needs to get gone now. Ottawa doesn’t want to move Mews. They feel they can work with him and want to work with him. The two situations are completely different.

We do agree Kingston isn’t a right fit. To me, if Hopkins comes out and nails down a top 9 centre role and makes himself valuable to the final outcome of the season from Kingston, he wouldn’t be an expendable player that can be used in a trade. If Hopkins comes out and struggles to maintain at least a 3rd centre role, why would Ottawa do that deal? The only way this proposal works is if it is a pre-season deal and Kingston bends over backwards to make it happen now as opposed to Ottawa rightfully waiting until Jan 1 when they can get a ‘08 1st from some team.

 

[ScoutLife4]

Mews still doubled his offensive stats from his 16 to 17 year old season. Mews isn’t an elite NHL prospect because he lacks defensive awareness but at the OHL level which is what his OHL team cares about when acquiring the player (what are you going to do for me?), he is an elite scoring RHD. I may have issues with portions of his game as did the NHL scouts but if you are an OHL team that needs a first pair RHD that can QB your power play and put up 80 points as an 18 year old and know he will also play as a 19 year old (or he can be a sell off piece to recoup assets), I don’t think him being a 3rd rounder instead of a 2nd rounder means all that much from the perspective of a drop in “OHL trade value.” Fresca, on the other hand, is a player that wants out on a team that doesn’t want him there anymore. One is likely a trade deadline deal and the other needs to get gone now. Ottawa doesn’t want to move Mews. They feel they can work with him and want to work with him. The two situations are completely different.

We do agree Kingston isn’t a right fit. To me, if Hopkins comes out and nails down a top 9 centre role and makes himself valuable to the final outcome of the season from Kingston, he wouldn’t be an expendable player that can be used in a trade. If Hopkins comes out and struggles to maintain at least a 3rd centre role, why would Ottawa do that deal? The only way this proposal works is if it is a pre-season deal and Kingston bends over backwards to make it happen now as opposed to Ottawa rightfully waiting until Jan 1 when they can get a ‘08 1st from some team.

The Mews and Frasca situation are identical regardless of how you want to wrap it with a bow and shine it up from the Ottawa side,
Both players want out.
Mews just has slightly more value then Frasca does.
Ottawa not wanting to move Mews won't matter as it will turn into a Jack Beck type situation.
Kingston didn't want to move Frasca either until he expressed his unhappiness.
Ottawa wanting to keep a player that doesn't want to be there would just be a foolish mistake especially in a year they need to sell off and restock picks.

 

[OHL4Life]

I wouldn't have posted it if it wasn't from a trusted source.
Do you know what exact day trade window opens again? (I cant remember)

no reason to doubt you and ive heard the same thing (after you posted it, you where the first),

i think its the first monday of august, then the league opens its office again.

 

[OMG67]

The Mews and Frasca situation are identical regardless of how you want to wrap it with a bow and shine it up from the Ottawa side,
Both players want out.
Mews just has slightly more value then Frasca does.
Ottawa not wanting to move Mews won't matter as it will turn into a Jack Beck type situation.
Kingston didn't want to move Frasca either until he expressed his unhappiness.
Ottawa wanting to keep a player that doesn't want to be there would just be a foolish mistake especially in a year they need to sell off and restock picks.

I can see your point but the reality is the two players aren’t really as close in value as you suggest. One stagnated last year and the other progressed as planned (offensively). One has proven capable of playing and excelling in a top line/pairing role generating primary offence. The other was injured and didn’t show any true progression in his game.

I’m not one to look at NHL Draft status as a real indicator because I think OHL players when being traded etc have OHL Value which is much different than NHL prospect value. However, Mews was projected as maybe a late 1st or early 2nd. Effectively he dropped around 30-45 spots based on his pre-season projection. You know better than me that pre-season projections don’t really mean very much. Either a kid is a sure fire 1st rounder or he is a 2nd/3rd rounder that “maybe” shows a completely different side of his game and the improvement level jacks him into the 1st round. You well know that Mews was one of those “maybe he could jump into the 1st round” type of player. Him dropping to the 3rd is a bit of a surprise but it’s not like he dropped out of the draft or he snuck in as a late 7th rounder.

I can see Ottawa waiting until the deadline and Mews being ok with it, especially if it means he has a bit more choice where he goes. Right now, if he wants to stay in the conference (or this side of the GTA), I am not sure there is a trade out there. If he were ok going to Flint or Erie etc, then I could see a deal being done in the pre-season but I really don’t think he would be willing to accept that type of deal this early. I think both sides will be patient. I am not so sure the Frasca situation sounds like it is amicable enough to wait until closer to the deadline but I trust you have much better insight than I do in that regard. Admittedly, I am going based on feel not concrete info.

There is a pretty big difference between Jack Beck and Mews. Beck was an OA whose value was pretty much what he was traded for. Ottawa received the value immediately. Mews value is an ‘08 1st plus picks dependent on the weighting of the player which means they ether wait until the deadline or they find similar value without the ‘08 1st. That is a much more difficult deal to make than trading an OA winger worth a 2nd and 3rd.

 

[ScoutLife4]

I can see your point but the reality is the two players aren’t really as close in value as you suggest. One stagnated last year and the other progressed as planned (offensively). One has proven capable of playing and excelling in a top line/pairing role generating primary offence. The other was injured and didn’t show any true progression in his game.

I’m not one to look at NHL Draft status as a real indicator because I think OHL players when being traded etc have OHL Value which is much different than NHL prospect value. However, Mews was projected as maybe a late 1st or early 2nd. Effectively he dropped around 30-45 spots based on his pre-season projection. You know better than me that pre-season projections don’t really mean very much. Either a kid is a sure fire 1st rounder or he is a 2nd/3rd rounder that “maybe” shows a completely different side of his game and the improvement level jacks him into the 1st round. You well know that Mews was one of those “maybe he could jump into the 1st round” type of player. Him dropping to the 3rd is a bit of a surprise but it’s not like he dropped out of the draft or he snuck in as a late 7th rounder.

I can see Ottawa waiting until the deadline and Mews being ok with it, especially if it means he has a bit more choice where he goes. Right now, if he wants to stay in the conference (or this side of the GTA), I am not sure there is a trade out there. If he were ok going to Flint or Erie etc, then I could see a deal being done in the pre-season but I really don’t think he would be willing to accept that type of deal this early. I think both sides will be patient. I am not so sure the Frasca situation sounds like it is amicable enough to wait until closer to the deadline but I trust you have much better insight than I do in that regard. Admittedly, I am going based on feel not concrete info.

There is a pretty big difference between Jack Beck and Mews. Beck was an OA whose value was pretty much what he was traded for. Ottawa received the value immediately. Mews value is an ‘08 1st plus picks dependent on the weighting of the player which means they ether wait until the deadline or they find similar value without the ‘08 1st. That is a much more difficult deal to make than trading an OA winger worth a 2nd and 3rd.

He's going to go to the highest bidder and i think the situation lowers the value.
We will see how this plays out.
I don't see Kingston as the right fit as thats a team that's going to need size and physicality on the backend.

 

[Section5Petes]

I agree.

If they got it done without Hopkins involved- I’d be pretty damn happy regardless though.

All in this year obviously and then next year if they didn’t want to go for it again they can trade guys like mews/Battaglia and get 2 09’s to go with our 2 09’s we will already get (comp pick + normal 1st)

4 first round 16 year olds like the Pete’s last year wouldn’t be something to complain about but obviously far too ahead to predict that future. Hard though to foresee how this season goes let alone the 2025/2026 season as of now.

A lot of questions.

By October there will be far less questions.



Also about frasca been thinking- I think 4 teams to watch in my opinion would be Windsor, Barrie, and Niagara. Nobody has told me a thing about teams just want to get that out there- just my own personal speculation because Windsor, Jordan played for, Barrie, Jacob played for, and Niagara Nicholas will play for. Ottawa if the Mews rumours are true- gonna need to trade someone to Ottawa, Ottawa needs a top 6 centre, Kingston needs a rhd man it may work out. Not just 1 for 1 though obviously.

Windsor, Niagara are 2 years away from contention- by then Gabriel will be 19- and one of the best 2 way centres in the league I’m sure. Barrie is a bit of a wild card but they’ll probably be good then too with guys like Beaudoin in his 19 year old season, Moses 18 etc. but u think the front runners should be Windsor then Niagara.

I'd love to see the Petes thrown into that mix as well, especially at the price that @ScoutLife4 references. Could have '06s Frasca and McCallum as the 1 and 2 centres and having Frasca would help to push this rebuild forward a little bit, while still allowing the younger guys (Taylor, Cameron, Addy, Young, Fitzgerald etc) time to develop. I'm sure not everyone will agree but I feel that Frasca would be a solid addition who could be here and lead this team and speed up the arrival of the competitive window. Just a though but I'd love Mike Oke to make it happen. @Petes

 

[frontsfan67]

I'd love to see the Petes thrown into that mix as well, especially at the price that @ScoutLife4 references. Could have '06s Frasca and McCallum as the 1 and 2 centres and having Frasca would help to push this rebuild forward a little bit, while still allowing the younger guys (Taylor, Cameron, Addy, Young, Fitzgerald etc) time to develop. I'm sure not everyone will agree but I feel that Frasca would be a solid addition who could be here and lead this team and speed up the arrival of the competitive window. Just a thought but I'd love Mike Oke to make it happen. @Petes

I think he would be great for you guys. The only thing is though- who are you trading for him?

 

[Petes1987]

I think he would be great for you guys. The only thing is though- who are you trading for him?

I doubt it would be either Brayden McCallum, Carson Cameron or Caden Taylor. I am not sure who they are willing to trade. If he is traded for draft picks alone similar players trades in the past have gone for three, 2nds and two or three, 3rds. I doubt the Peterborough is going to trade that many draft picks for an underachieving player. While he would be a great fit for the Petes I doubt there will be a trade made between the two teams for him as I would have to think Kingston is looking at acquiring a veteran player as they are looking to contend this season and the Petes do not have a veteran player to trade.

 

[Section5Petes]

I think he would be great for you guys. The only thing is though- who are you trading for him?

I'd try to just get it done with picks, mainly because the Petes don't really have any bodies of value for a Kingston playoff run lol

 

[Petes1987]

I'd try to just get it done with picks, mainly because the Petes don't really have any bodies of value for a Kingston playoff run lol

The Petes likely available draft picks are two of their 2nds (2025 and 2027), three of their 3rds (2025, 2026 and 2027) and a couple of 5ths. Is that enough to get a deal done?

 

[frontsfan67]

The Petes likely available draft picks are two of their 2nds (2025 and 2027), three of their 3rds (2025, 2026 and 2027) and a couple of 5ths. Is that enough to get a deal done?

Oh hell ya that’s enough to get it done.

Even 2 2nds, and 3 3rds the fronts would take that deal absolutely I think.

I expect the fronts to get only picks for frasca- and whatever picks they get for him they’ll probably flip for upgrades at some point.

 

[Petes1987]

Oh hell ya that’s enough to get it done.

Even 2 2nds, and 3 3rds the fronts would take that deal absolutely I think.

I expect the fronts to get only picks for frasca- and whatever picks they get for him they’ll probably flip for upgrades at some point.

If the Petes were to acquire Gabriel Frasca it would help the offence this coming season and in 2025-2026 and would make them competitive sooner. Adding a centre is one of their biggest needs. They have Brayden McCallum, Colin Fitzgerald and Brady Partridge down the middle but need to add depth at this position. Adding Frasca would also allow them to move Fitzgerald out of the top six (but still in the top nine). I am not sure they are prepared to invest all their excess draft picks in one player. In addition to a centre they need to add an experienced defenceman to help develop their good young defence and a right winger that can provide offence.

 

[dirty12]

If the Petes were to acquire Gabriel Frasca it would help the offence this coming season and in 2025-2026 and would make them competitive sooner. Adding a centre is one of their biggest needs. They have Brayden McCallum, Colin Fitzgerald and Brady Partridge down the middle but need to add depth at this position. Adding Frasca would also allow them to move Fitzgerald out of the top six (but still in the top nine). I am not sure they are prepared to invest all their excess draft picks in one player. In addition to a centre they need to add an experienced defenceman to help develop their good young defence and a right winger that can provide offence.

The Petes are in a very similar place now that the Frontenacs have been for 2 seasons. The Petes are all-in with the ‘07, and there is really no turning back now. The Petes absolutely should use all of their pick excess and more for potentially the best ‘06s as OAs imo. There will be opportunity to trade ‘04, ‘05 & ‘06 over the next two years to recoup some of those picks.

 

[frontsfan67]

What’s the earliest the fronts can trade malholtras rights and declare him defective?? I saw the Dickinson trade happened on August 31st.

 

[OHL4Life]

What’s the earliest the fronts can trade malholtras rights and declare him defective?? I saw the Dickinson trade happened on August 31st.

48 hours after training camp opens. itll be like michael hage i would think. trade to a team for a few pics, more just so that kingston can get its 1st round pick back.

 

[OMG67]

I’m not sure how easy it would be to trade Malhotra if there isn’t a cooked deal done where he is ready and willing to report. We’ve seen some teams trade conditional picks and then watch them sit there tied up for a few years. Even the Hage deal only netted a 4th with a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th tied up in conditionals. I think teams mostly learned from the Fantilli and Moldenhauer deals that tying up those picks for so long really hurts.

 

[HolyRoller]

I can see your point but the reality is the two players aren’t really as close in value as you suggest. One stagnated last year and the other progressed as planned (offensively). One has proven capable of playing and excelling in a top line/pairing role generating primary offence. The other was injured and didn’t show any true progression in his game.

I’m not one to look at NHL Draft status as a real indicator because I think OHL players when being traded etc have OHL Value which is much different than NHL prospect value. However, Mews was projected as maybe a late 1st or early 2nd. Effectively he dropped around 30-45 spots based on his pre-season projection. You know better than me that pre-season projections don’t really mean very much. Either a kid is a sure fire 1st rounder or he is a 2nd/3rd rounder that “maybe” shows a completely different side of his game and the improvement level jacks him into the 1st round. You well know that Mews was one of those “maybe he could jump into the 1st round” type of player. Him dropping to the 3rd is a bit of a surprise but it’s not like he dropped out of the draft or he snuck in as a late 7th rounder.

I can see Ottawa waiting until the deadline and Mews being ok with it, especially if it means he has a bit more choice where he goes. Right now, if he wants to stay in the conference (or this side of the GTA), I am not sure there is a trade out there. If he were ok going to Flint or Erie etc, then I could see a deal being done in the pre-season but I really don’t think he would be willing to accept that type of deal this early. I think both sides will be patient. I am not so sure the Frasca situation sounds like it is amicable enough to wait until closer to the deadline but I trust you have much better insight than I do in that regard. Admittedly, I am going based on feel not concrete info.

There is a pretty big difference between Jack Beck and Mews. Beck was an OA whose value was pretty much what he was traded for. Ottawa received the value immediately. Mews value is an ‘08 1st plus picks dependent on the weighting of the player which means they ether wait until the deadline or they find similar value without the ‘08 1st. That is a much more difficult deal to make than trading an OA winger worth a 2nd and 3rd.

Interesting takes on Mews. His first year as a D was at U16 when he went to JRC.

 

[leafs4life94]

There's a post over on Malhotra's thread in the Prospects section saying that he'll be traded to Guelph when the trade window opens - any of the vetted insiders here know anything about it? Guelph doesn't have a ton of picks (3 2s, 2 3s, 3 4s) - so they'd be locking up the majority of their remaining draft capital in conditionals.

 

[beastintheeast]

Usually, when players want out, they have other teams in mind.

While Frasca has the freedom to choose his next move, Mews is in a different situation.

There is the Flames and what they want him to do and where they think he should go. There is also the NHL money that the OHL teams get,

The Flames are going to want him to play on a team where he can learn the skills they want him to and not play the way he wants to play. Off the top of my head I think you arre going to see them wanting him to learn to play the defensive part of defense and learn how to play that as well as the physical game.

There is also the reason that he wants to move. Is it the coach, or is there something else? We started the summer with the thought that Mayich wanted to play closer to home. We have not heard much about that nor seen him move. Again he is going to go to an NHL camp and will be told by St Louis what they want to see and where they think he should play.

 

[OHL4Life]

There's a post over on Malhotra's thread in the Prospects section saying that he'll be traded to Guelph when the trade window opens - any of the vetted insiders here know anything about it? Guelph doesn't have a ton of picks (3 2s, 2 3s, 3 4s) - so they'd be locking up the majority of their remaining draft capital in conditionals.

I’d be shocked

 

[beastintheeast]

Betts made the U17 roster congrats. Any extra training at level willhelp

 

[beastintheeast]

This should be the final nail

30 names to watch when the 2024 college hockey recruiting cycle opens

Players entering their junior years of high school are eligible to receive offers and make verbal commitments beginning Aug. 1.

www.therinklive.com

 

[frontsfan67]

This should be the final nail

30 names to watch when the 2024 college hockey recruiting cycle opens

Players entering their junior years of high school are eligible to receive offers and make verbal commitments beginning Aug. 1.

www.therinklive.com

We all knew he wasn’t coming a few days after the draft cooper even said he was surprised.

Doesn’t mean they won’t trade him for conditionals and to a team where he MAY commit to. Gotta remember he misses out on team Canada going to the BCHL. Regardless on if it’s in kingston or somewhere else in the OHL like Guelph, London, Kitchener etc- they’re still going to trade him.

Worst case scenario they still get their first back and some high conditionals next year in what should be a better draft(assuming half of good players don’t go elsewhere-bchl, ushl etc this year)