Kingston Frontenacs 2023-24 Off-Season Thread (Part 3)

[HockeyPops]

I just think you need to wait until after the "declare a player defective" deadline before you crucify Cooper. For this. Feel free to crucify him for everything else.

 

[ScoutLife4]

I just think you need to wait until after the "declare a player defective" deadline before you crucify Cooper. For this. Feel free to crucify him for everything else.

What do you think they would get from Guelph for another team to take the same risk with slightly better odds of having him report? Just curious.
I think people on this forum are grossly overvaluing Guelphs interest just because of his dad playing there.

 

[HockeyPops]

Well if it's condtionals there isn't really any risk?

 

[ohloutsider]

Well if it's condtionals there isn't really any risk?

It ties up the picks which they may want to use somewhere else.

 

[ScoutLife4]

Well if it's condtionals there isn't really any risk?

I think the only way this pans out to be a success for Kingston is if Guelph wants to over pay for him now which I don't see happening.
Kingston may have overplayed their hand on this one but I could be wrong.
They thought he would report to come play for Troy but it was never about playing OHL or what team he played for / who coached him.
He and his family had long before made a decision to go the NCAA route and make school a priority.

I hope my source is wrong for Kingstons sake. -But they have been pretty bang on in the past so im concerned.

 

[OHL4Life]

I think the only way this pans out to be a success for Kingston is if Guelph wants to over pay for him now which I don't see happening.
Kingston may have overplayed their hand on this one but I could be wrong.
They thought he would report to come play for Troy but it was never about playing OHL or what team he played for / who coached him.
He and his family had long before made a decision to go the NCAA route and make school a priority.

I hope my source is wrong for Kingstons sake. -But they have been pretty bang on in the past so im concerned.

ive heard the same,

worst case they trade him like kitchener did for hage, a few conditionals. but i agree, i wonder if they thoguht they were calling his bluff when there was no bluff. time will tell.

 

[ScoutLife4]

ive heard the same,

worst case they trade him like kitchener did for hage, a few conditionals. but i agree, i wonder if they thoguht they were calling his bluff when there was no bluff. time will tell.

Cooper was quoted admitting he knew about the signing and acknowledged and said he would regret not taking the best available in the draft at their pick.
While I admire the optimism Kingston is not London.

 

[OHL4Life]

Cooper was quoted admitting he knew about the signing and acknowledged and said he would regret not taking the best available in the draft at their pick.
While I admire the optimism Kingston is not London.

ya, i donno, i dont mind it if you know you can trade him, you dont know you can do that here.

 

[zaluty]

I do not mind if he does or does not report. Sure, he would have helped this year but Kingston has a lot of 19 yr olds and I think they may want to take a shot this year of doing a run. Now can they, who knows? There is a lot of time between now and January 10th. Kingston does not have a 2nd round pick next year, so two first rounders would more than make up for that. Verbal commits are just that, situations can change, like a coach being released. The forward core should be strong this year. I believe it just might be who they get as OA's that will define this upcoming season.

 

[leafs4life94]

From what I've seen in past years I think the next trade window opens up in June and that's when we may see some player movement and OA acquisitions. As always - goaltending will be the X-Factor.

Looking into the future - if they do go for it next year - then 25/26 should probably be a sell year to recoup picks, and they'll likely have interest in a chunk of their '05s as OAs, as well as Battaglia/Frasca if they look like they'll be ready to make the jump and not be back as OAs.

 

[ottsabrefan]

IMO, it's not the end of the world if he doesn't come here. I've always liked the idea of doubling up the 1sts (i.e., Bennett and Mckeown). The only downside seems to be that the team was probably planning on trading that 1st to go for it this year and now will essentially have lost that option.

The Wright trade still bugs me - I could be in the minority but I thought that was a massively underwhelming return. Miedema as the centerpiece had been meh but really evolved towards the end of this past year, McCarthy was a nothing add, a 2, a 3, two 4's and a 6. The conditional picks (5 and 6) didn't even end up transferring (assumingly because of Windsor's first round loss last year).

Even though the guys they picked may end up being solid contributors (Weir/Velliaris were the 2nd and 3rd) - it feels like it should've been more.

That return was terrible. That return should be pushing this team to be an elite team this year. The no trade clauses really hurt I think. Imagine Bonk on our D!

 

[frontsfan67]

IMO, it's not the end of the world if he doesn't come here. I've always liked the idea of doubling up the 1sts (i.e., Bennett and Mckeown). The only downside seems to be that the team was probably planning on trading that 1st to go for it this year and now will essentially have lost that option.


That return was terrible. That return should be pushing this team to be an elite team this year. The no trade clauses really hurt I think. Imagine Bonk on our D!

The only thing about that trade was kingston was trying to get a d man I remember talk about Mews, Bonk, Christoforo and Akey and when all those teams said no kingston was in panic mode and wanted to get Miedema as they were reported to be high on him at the time of his draft and he was having himself quite the year with Windsor prior to being traded here.

I think they were banking on him immediately breaking out with us and McCarthy reporting for this year gone by (2023/2024) not the season before (2022/2023) but clearly that didn’t work out well at all.

Miedema wasn’t a first, second or third option for trades he was like the 5th or 6th and so far he hasn’t lived quite up to the expectations.

 

[frontsfan67]

With Kitchener going to be going out here. I noticed a few guys on the roster that will be back next year.

We all know that we’re going to need a BIG guy on the team next year to fill in for Schmidt, and we also know we need a good impact left winger- look no further than Trent swick on that.

If he wants to come here I’m sure kingston will do everything in their power to get the kid here. Ppg, 6’7 and I believe has an A on his uniform for Kitchener.

Also Matthew Andonovski if made available would fit right in with us here. Next year he will be 19. He had 32 pts this year and the best plus minus in the O. Very good defensive d man- only downside is he is a LHD and we need a RHD. But we could still make him work here I’m sure.

2 very good guys from Kitchener that I’d like kingston to acquire. I’m sure swick will be available but not Andonovski. Obviously then there is Rehkopf too on that team but I don’t think we would have the assets to acquire him. Every team in the O would be gunning for him on their team if he is back.

 

[PuckLucker]

If all these guys really do end up producing that much, they’d sure as hell better find a way to tighten up the goals against. Maybe a whole season with Mann will inspire a better structure, but I’m not sure they have the right ingredients to succeed, especially in net.

I am of the same mindset.
I honestly feel like there will be a very big roster shake-up of current players, some player favorites of coach Mann received additional minutes, others didn't play much and probably weren't thrilled with their development or felt like they played in the shadows.

Someone posted comparisons of 3 NB players who have been teammates for 3 straight years and played almost 200 games together... Kingston does not have 3 players who mesh that well offensively and will produce 100 points each or be +40 or +50 (Essentially the entire Fronts team is a - in the plus/minus category)

Will JJ Salajko be back next season?
Kyle Downey...
Will they hire a goalie coach or just use the GM for goalie development?

 

[frontsfan67]

I am of the same mindset.
I honestly feel like there will be a very big roster shake-up of current players, some player favorites of coach Mann received additional minutes, others didn't play much and probably weren't thrilled with their development or felt like they played in the shadows.

I agree I can see some of the guys that were on the 2nd or third line either asking for a bigger role with the team or asking to get that chance with another team.


Miedema is one of those guys, one of thibodeau or Soto as well.


I think the first line will pretty obviously involve frasca and battaglia, but Soto and thibodeau will both be battling hard for that extra spot on that.


I think thibodeau will get it as they’re both fairly similar but thibodeau has shown more offensive potential and consistency.


Also McNamara if he is on the third line as a 19 year old I’m sure that won’t be something he will be happy about regardless of how good the team is.


A competitive team is a very good team to have though- they’ll all make eachother better as long as they can make those sacrifices such as being on the second or third line some days rather than the first or second

Will JJ Salajko be back next season?
Kyle Downey...
Will they hire a goalie coach or just use the GM for goalie development?

Kyle Downey is definitely not going to be back. Salajko if he makes big improvements may be back but I think Betts gets the edge here as he carried his team in the OHL cup and is 2 years younger.


If salajko isn’t on this team though- because of how young he is and he did get some ohl time this past season although not many games- someone will want him as their backup, some rebuilding team like maybe Niagara.

 

[beastintheeast]

If they can still trade his rights to Guelph they will make out fine with this selection.

The catch is that Malhorta must have a BCHL contract that has an out clause. Then
Guelph would be interested and give up the players that Kingston wants.

After watching what the BCHL did to the AJHL, I can guarantee that the contract that is signed with Chilliwack will either be honoured or will go to court, and Malhorta will not play anywhere next year.

I would be shocked if they are not interested.

Even if he doesn't report this year, if the NCAA relaxes their rules about playing OHL in 18 months, they can try to bring him in for his 17 year old season. Mostly conditional picks should make this a no brainer for Guelph.

And that's assuming he's not still playing games.

In order to trade him as a 17-year-old, the Fronts can not claim him as defective and get the extra pick in the draft next year.

Do you know how slow the NCAA's systems are? Being interested and willing to put up the players for a maybe player is useless. The best comparison is Moldenhauer going to the USHL.

 

[ScoutLife4]

The catch is that Malhorta must have a BCHL contract that has an out clause. Then
Guelph would be interested and give up the players that Kingston wants.

After watching what the BCHL did to the AJHL, I can guarantee that the contract that is signed with Chilliwack will either be honoured or will go to court, and Malhorta will not play anywhere next year.

In order to trade him as a 17-year-old, the Fronts can not claim him as defective and get the extra pick in the draft next year.

Do you know how slow the NCAA's systems are? Being interested and willing to put up the players for a maybe player is useless. The best comparison is Moldenhauer going to the USHL.

The BCHL is an outlaw league.
There is no hockey Canada ramifications in him not reporting to Chilliwack.
All they have to do is convince him to take a chance on OHL route to get drafted.
You are being over dramatic in my opinion - If the 15 year old decides he doesn't want move across the country by himself to play hockey i highly doubt they will sue him.
Great way to not have players commit anymore to an outlaw league.

HC may even help fund the lawsuit defense to be honest as a FU you the BCHL.

 

[frontsfan67]

The thing I don’t understand is if he was to move out west- would he or would he not be eligible for the WHL?

Wouldn’t that make more sense then the BCHL

 

[leafs4life94]

The thing I don’t understand is if he was to move out west- would he or would he not be eligible for the WHL?

Wouldn’t that make more sense then the BCHL

I think he'd have to pass through OHL waivers to be eligible.

It makes sense because the BCHL keeps NCAA eligibility and it's a much better league than the OJHL, and it seems like NCAA is his end goal.

What doesn't make sense is the pick - unless they just called the NCAA bluff and it isn't a bluff.

 

[frontsfan67]

I think he'd have to pass through OHL waivers to be eligible.

It makes sense because the BCHL keeps NCAA eligibility and it's a much better league than the OJHL, and it seems like NCAA is his end goal.

What doesn't make sense is the pick - unless they just called the NCAA bluff and it isn't a bluff.

Ah okay yeah wasn’t sure.

Still not sure why they didn’t pick Valentini as most think Valentini is better than malholtra and Valentini hasn’t signed anywhere yet.

Would’ve prob made more sense to get him if you’re going to take a chance on a player

 

[beastintheeast]

The BCHL is an outlaw league.
There is no hockey Canada ramifications in him not reporting to Chilliwack.
All they have to do is convince him to take a chance on OHL route to get drafted.
You are being over dramatic in my opinion - If the 15 year old decides he doesn't want move across the country by himself to play hockey i highly doubt they will sue him.
Great way to not have players commit anymore to an outlaw league.

HC may even help fund the lawsuit defense to be honest as a FU you the BCHL.

HC is going to stay as far away as possible. They tried to get involved with the AJHL and got their assets handed to them. Just like the OHL, once a player's family signs an agreement to play for that team, the team owns the player's rights.

This would have nothing to do with Hockey Canada and everything to do with drafted players and contracts. It would have legal ramifications throughout Junior hockey, including Hockey Canada and the CHL.

If Fred is signed to work at Google and signs a contract to work there for x number of years, can Fred then the next day say no thanks to Google and go work for Microsoft? The only way is if there was an agreed-out clause in eh contract.

Ah okay yeah wasn’t sure.

Still not sure why they didn’t pick Valentini as most think Valentini is better than malholtra and Valentini hasn’t signed anywhere yet.

Would’ve prob made more sense to get him if you’re going to take a chance on a player

I agree whether he ends up in Gurelph or in Kingston, Chilliwack or Timbuktu this was a dumb pick tht has added unneeded drama to a team that already has enough.

It would have been better for them to make sure that he would report and get a verbal guarantee. If they did not get that or there was hesitation, they moved to someone who would report willingly.

Too many times OHL teams look at the skill set and think that this is the guy without checking to see if this is the guy that will report or is going to screw them.

You have to wonder if Wright had not been of exceptional status and Kingston had chosen him, he would have reported here. Considering all the baggage ande everything that happened to him.

 

[dirty12]

HC is going to stay as far away as possible. They tried to get involved with the AJHL and got their assets handed to them. Just like the OHL, once a player's family signs an agreement to play for that team, the team owns the player's rights.

This would have nothing to do with Hockey Canada and everything to do with drafted players and contracts. It would have legal ramifications throughout Junior hockey, including Hockey Canada and the CHL.

If Fred is signed to work at Google and signs a contract to work there for x number of years, can Fred then the next day say no thanks to Google and go work for Microsoft? The only way is if there was an agreed-out clause in eh contract.




I agree whether he ends up in Gurelph or in Kingston, Chilliwack or Timbuktu this was a dumb pick tht has added unneeded drama to a team that already has enough.

It would have been better for them to make sure that he would report and get a verbal guarantee. If they did not get that or there was hesitation, they moved to someone who would report willingly.

Too many times OHL teams look at the skill set and think that this is the guy without checking to see if this is the guy that will report or is going to screw them.

You have to wonder if Wright had not been of exceptional status and Kingston had chosen him, he would have reported here. Considering all the baggage ande everything that happened to him.

A BC jrA team does not have Google $ for lawyers or time to wait on court decisions or the want to be forever known as the franchise that held a 16 yr old against his will. If Rehkopf can back out of signed tender in the USHL, Maholtra can back out of the BCHL

 

[beastintheeast]

A BC jrA team does not have Google $ for lawyers or time to wait on court decisions or the want to be forever known as the franchise that held a 16 yr old against his will. If Rehkopf can back out of signed tender in the USHL, Maholtra can back out of the BCHL

Maybe he can but still my points are:

Why are you drafting a player when he does not want to report to you? Especially when there were players of equal or better skill levels available?

Why did Cooper not do his due diligence?

Does Kingston need the off-ice drama?

How does drafting a kid who will not play help you today or this season?



LOL, you break me up . Google and Microsoft are just names. If it makes you happier put in Piza hut or just make it X and Y.
The point is that if there is a contract and he attempts to void it, then they can sue, and the immediate act would be that he would likely be barred from playing hockey for any other team in North America.

But whether he is going to play in the BCHL or is he using it as a tool to force a trade, really, what we should be talking about is the first-round draft pick.

This is a team that is really messed up. First, they could not decide if they were a buyer or seller at the deadline. If they were really going to compete with the big boys, they kept Ludwinski and now lase whatever they could have gotten for him to finish 7th, where they would have finished if they had traded him.

Then they drafted a player tht stated that he did not want to play in Kingston and was going to sign in the BCHL if they drafted him.

Again is the stuff fans should be talking about imagine if they had drafted Valenti or a player that wanted to play in kingston

.

 

[frontsfan67]

Maybe he can but still my points are:

Why are you drafting a player when he does not want to report to you? Especially when there were players of equal or better skill levels available?

Why did Cooper not do his due diligence?

Does Kingston need the off-ice drama?

How does drafting a kid who will not play help you today or this season?

Is whether he is going to play in the BCHL or is he using it as a tool to force a trade really what we should be talking about the first round draft pick.

Beast they may have honestly picked him as he clearly has some potential and even though he might not be right on board with kingston. He would have some more value than guys like Hawery, Amidovski that they could’ve picked. And if the end goal is to flip him for big upgrades in a go for it year, that may get them more value than the other guys.

 

[dirty12]

Maybe he can but still my points are:

Why are you drafting a player when he does not want to report to you? Especially when there were players of equal or better skill levels available?

Why did Cooper not do his due diligence?

Does Kingston need the off-ice drama?

How does drafting a kid who will not play help you today or this season?

Is whether he is going to play in the BCHL or is he using it as a tool to force a trade really what we should be talking about the first round draft pick.

in a year that several of the top rated kids were picking their spots, Cooper may have thought the defect route was his best option.