Prospect Info: Kings sign Sean Durzi to his 3-year ELC

  • Work is still on-going to rebuild the site styling and features. Please report any issues you may experience so we can look into it. Click Here for Updates
at least when we sucked with lombardi, i really felt like we had a plan. he had charts, he gave in-depth interviews. he had a system. he had a plan. he made me believe he was moving in the right direction and he was doing what he thought was best. and it wasnt flavor of the month either - he said it would take a while and it did but damnit it worked

I'm not trying to be an ass, but have you been to any of the season ticket holder meetings? I mean, maybe you have and were left with a different impression and I'm just a sucker. I was at the one prior to the Florida game and I was actually quite impressed with the presentation by Luc and Kelly Cheeseman. I went into it with a lot of the same feelings some have here about the FO, only to leave it thinking maybe these guys do have a plan after all. Hell, I wish it would've run longer and into game time, because seeing the videos and charts and hearing what they had to say was worth more to me than the game on the ice that day. Oh, and they know they're going to suck for the next few years at least and realize that top 10 draft choices are an absolute priority. Luc was brutally honest over the type of skill set the team is lacking currently and I had to laugh when they were doing the film breakdowns.
 
at least when we sucked with lombardi, i really felt like we had a plan. he had charts, he gave in-depth interviews. he had a system. he had a plan. he made me believe he was moving in the right direction and he was doing what he thought was best. and it wasnt flavor of the month either - he said it would take a while and it did but damnit it worked

I'm not trying to be an ass, but have you been to any of the season ticket holder meetings? I mean, maybe you have and were left with a different impression and I'm just a sucker. I was at the one prior to the Florida game and I was actually quite impressed with the presentation by Luc and Kelly Cheeseman. I went into it with a lot of the same feelings some have here about the FO, only to leave it thinking maybe these guys do have a plan after all. Hell, I wish it would've run longer and into game time, because seeing the videos and charts and hearing what they had to say was worth more to me than the game on the ice that day. Oh, and they know they're going to suck for the next few years at least and realize that top 10 draft choices are an absolute priority. Luc was brutally honest over the type of skill set the team is lacking currently and I had to laugh when they were doing the film breakdowns.

Sounds like the big difference is that DL verbalized a lot of his thoughts and visions to access bloggers and media (never forget Teddy Purcell filling the 1LW "box!") whereas Luc and Blake are keeping it relatively behind the scenes if that's the case.
 
I'm not trying to be an ass, but have you been to any of the season ticket holder meetings? I mean, maybe you have and were left with a different impression and I'm just a sucker. I was at the one prior to the Florida game and I was actually quite impressed with the presentation by Luc and Kelly Cheeseman. I went into it with a lot of the same feelings some have here about the FO, only to leave it thinking maybe these guys do have a plan after all. Hell, I wish it would've run longer and into game time, because seeing the videos and charts and hearing what they had to say was worth more to me than the game on the ice that day. Oh, and they know they're going to suck for the next few years at least and realize that top 10 draft choices are an absolute priority. Luc was brutally honest over the type of skill set the team is lacking currently and I had to laugh when they were doing the film breakdowns.

I’m not a season ticket holder and I was not at those meetings. If that was the impression you got, then that’s more reassuring than what I’ve seen/read on LAKI. Maybe I didn’t see the articles or read them thoroughly. But I remember a lot of them from Lombardi, so that sticks out in my mind.

Sounds like the big difference is that DL verbalized a lot of his thoughts and visions to access bloggers and media (never forget Teddy Purcell filling the 1LW "box!") whereas Luc and Blake are keeping it relatively behind the scenes if that's the case.

Yeah, that sounds like it may be the case here. I consider myself nearly as die hard a fan as one can be (have I really been here over a decade now? woof), and I’d be a season ticket holder if I didn’t live so far away. If I can’t find this information, who can?

The only thing I found on LAKI is this article from January: Luc's exclusive message to Season Ticket Members - LA Kings Insider

So maybe it’s a matter of messaging?
 
I’m not a season ticket holder and I was not at those meetings. If that was the impression you got, then that’s more reassuring than what I’ve seen/read on LAKI. Maybe I didn’t see the articles or read them thoroughly. But I remember a lot of them from Lombardi, so that sticks out in my mind.



Yeah, that sounds like it may be the case here. I consider myself nearly as die hard a fan as one can be (have I really been here over a decade now? woof), and I’d be a season ticket holder if I didn’t live so far away. If I can’t find this information, who can?

The only thing I found on LAKI is this article from January: Luc's exclusive message to Season Ticket Members - LA Kings Insider

So maybe it’s a matter of messaging?

Bernstein commented on it in one of his more recent articles. 72 and Cloudy in Los Angeles — The Fourth Period
 
Sounds like the big difference is that DL verbalized a lot of his thoughts and visions to access bloggers and media (never forget Teddy Purcell filling the 1LW "box!") whereas Luc and Blake are keeping it relatively behind the scenes if that's the case.

Okay, I'll try to recall the important bits I witnessed that day since I was lucky enough to attend...

Boxes and charts: There absolutely are boxes which we saw for every position on every line and every defensive pairing and goaltending. There was also a similar chart with each position (1C, 2C...1st Pairing D, 2nd Pairing D etc) and how many prospects they think project into each slot and how many they want in the pipeline for each. For example, they believe they have a definite 1C in the pipeline, but want 2 total at least. They also presented a chart with the typical percentage chance a 1 to 10 overall (as well as other draft ranges) draft choice plays in the NHL in year 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 etc and how some of the draft choices have either broken into the league before their projection or are still marinating.

Importance of draft choices: Luc stressed the importance of collecting draft choices over the next few years to make the team younger (said the Kings are among the oldest teams in the league). Mentioned that they're trying to add even more picks in the upcoming draft. There was a bullet point that I liked seeing, which is that older players are blocking the path of younger players. That's part of the impetus for making trades. Luc also mentioned that there are 13 (I think) expiring contracts (specifically said "I'm not going to name names") on the roster till the end of the 2020 season. I think we're all annoyed that Desjardins is overplaying the vets and limiting the ice time of actual producing youth for who f'ing knows why.

Muzzin trade: Luc and Cheeseman explained the thought process behind the Muzzin trade. They showed a chart of comparable trades over the years and the return for each. Also some sort of ranking system where once they felt that the offer(s) for Muzzin broke a particular threshold, it was time to make the trade. They 100% did ask for either Liljegren or Sandin (said it was their top D-man prospect), knowing they'd likely get rejected. But that the 1st was mandatory in any trade scenario and the addition of Grundstrom and Durzi pushed the offer into the pull the trigger now category. Mentioned there wasn't much of a market for players with term this trade deadline and that only Muzzin and Montour were players that were moved with term left on their deals. They feel they can get more for certain players on the roster when they're rentals next season.

Style of play: This was an interesting discussion. Basically, showed footage of plays in the league when the Kings were dominant with their style of play. Then showed footage of the same type of plays and how the plays are all penalties now. That the Kings were built around a particular philosophy that worked (mentioned not losing a game in regulation for 2 seasons when leading after 2 periods), but is no longer going to in today's NHL. It was eye opening on how checkers and defenders are so afraid to engage with puck carriers now for fear of penalties. Way less stick activity with defenders electing to leave their sticks on the ice instead. Luc mentioned that the Kings need to start filling the roster with players who can take advantage of the new rules and when showing players dance down the middle of the ice said "We don't have anyone who can/will do that" laughingly.

New coach: Not a lot of meat here, but there was some discussion about what they're looking for in the next coach. Didn't outright say WD is goners, but it was obvious that they're looking to replace him with someone who can not only handle vets, but also will develop young players. Luc said "Nobody's looking to hire a head coach whose philosophy is to win 2 to 1 anymore."

Anyway, I'm sure there is more that I've forgotten. The leadership does know that changes need to be made and where the franchise is deficient. Now, how they execute in addressing the need for change is going to tell the tale on how this team looks in 3 seasons. I don't post here much now, but if you see any value in this post and want to cross-post it in another off-season plan thread so it doesn't get lost in the Sean Durzi signing thread, go for it.
 
Okay, I'll try to recall the important bits I witnessed that day since I was lucky enough to attend...

Boxes and charts: There absolutely are boxes which we saw for every position on every line and every defensive pairing and goaltending. There was also a similar chart with each position (1C, 2C...1st Pairing D, 2nd Pairing D etc) and how many prospects they think project into each slot and how many they want in the pipeline for each. For example, they believe they have a definite 1C in the pipeline, but want 2 total at least. They also presented a chart with the typical percentage chance a 1 to 10 overall (as well as other draft ranges) draft choice plays in the NHL in year 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 etc and how some of the draft choices have either broken into the league before their projection or are still marinating.

Importance of draft choices: Luc stressed the importance of collecting draft choices over the next few years to make the team younger (said the Kings are among the oldest teams in the league). Mentioned that they're trying to add even more picks in the upcoming draft. There was a bullet point that I liked seeing, which is that older players are blocking the path of younger players. That's part of the impetus for making trades. Luc also mentioned that there are 13 (I think) expiring contracts (specifically said "I'm not going to name names") on the roster till the end of the 2020 season. I think we're all annoyed that Desjardins is overplaying the vets and limiting the ice time of actual producing youth for who f'ing knows why.

Muzzin trade: Luc and Cheeseman explained the thought process behind the Muzzin trade. They showed a chart of comparable trades over the years and the return for each. Also some sort of ranking system where once they felt that the offer(s) for Muzzin broke a particular threshold, it was time to make the trade. They 100% did ask for either Liljegren or Sandin (said it was their top D-man prospect), knowing they'd likely get rejected. But that the 1st was mandatory in any trade scenario and the addition of Grundstrom and Durzi pushed the offer into the pull the trigger now category. Mentioned there wasn't much of a market for players with term this trade deadline and that only Muzzin and Montour were players that were moved with term left on their deals. They feel they can get more for certain players on the roster when they're rentals next season.

Style of play: This was an interesting discussion. Basically, showed footage of plays in the league when the Kings were dominant with their style of play. Then showed footage of the same type of plays and how the plays are all penalties now. That the Kings were built around a particular philosophy that worked (mentioned not losing a game in regulation for 2 seasons when leading after 2 periods), but is no longer going to in today's NHL. It was eye opening on how checkers and defenders are so afraid to engage with puck carriers now for fear of penalties. Way less stick activity with defenders electing to leave their sticks on the ice instead. Luc mentioned that the Kings need to start filling the roster with players who can take advantage of the new rules and when showing players dance down the middle of the ice said "We don't have anyone who can/will do that" laughingly.

New coach: Not a lot of meat here, but there was some discussion about what they're looking for in the next coach. Didn't outright say WD is goners, but it was obvious that they're looking to replace him with someone who can not only handle vets, but also will develop young players. Luc said "Nobody's looking to hire a head coach whose philosophy is to win 2 to 1 anymore."

Anyway, I'm sure there is more that I've forgotten. The leadership does know that changes need to be made and where the franchise is deficient. Now, how they execute in addressing the need for change is going to tell the tale on how this team looks in 3 seasons. I don't post here much now, but if you see any value in this post and want to cross-post it in another off-season plan thread so it doesn't get lost in the Sean Durzi signing thread, go for it.

Awesome post! Thanks for sharing in such detail. I 100% agree with Luc regarding the Kings past style not working in today’s NHL because of the new rules and penalties. We first saw a glimpse of this in the 2016 Sharks series. We lost to a better team, but the Kings were penalized left and right in that series disproportionately.
 
I've always maintained that the "built for the playoffs" meme relied a lot on how refs swallowed their whistles come playoff time. Pretty sure I bitched about it in the 2016 loss to San Jose because it was real ticky-tack out there for playoff hockey.

Thanks for the post, Cyclone. These guys just didn't realize they needed to do this until the wheels fell off. They were on board with collecting prospects--an obvious move after the latter Lombardi years--but thought they could have their cake and eat it too when it came to the NHL roster.

I assume they have Vilardi as the 1C. Muzzin trade falls in line with my belief at the time of--if you like this return--pull the trigger now and keep on moving. The vet talk also falls in line with the belief that Toffoli, Lewis and Clifford will have more value as rentals next season: especially in Toffoli's case if he bounces back.

Makes sense that they think they will be bad for awhile. They are pretty much banking on it next season with the STH price freeze for two seasons. Will probably take a Hughes and a functional Vilardi to really jump start it, along with some sort of legit Top 4 play from a young defenseman.
 
Okay, I'll try to recall the important bits I witnessed that day since I was lucky enough to attend...

Boxes and charts: There absolutely are boxes which we saw for every position on every line and every defensive pairing and goaltending. There was also a similar chart with each position (1C, 2C...1st Pairing D, 2nd Pairing D etc) and how many prospects they think project into each slot and how many they want in the pipeline for each. For example, they believe they have a definite 1C in the pipeline, but want 2 total at least. They also presented a chart with the typical percentage chance a 1 to 10 overall (as well as other draft ranges) draft choice plays in the NHL in year 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 etc and how some of the draft choices have either broken into the league before their projection or are still marinating.

Importance of draft choices: Luc stressed the importance of collecting draft choices over the next few years to make the team younger (said the Kings are among the oldest teams in the league). Mentioned that they're trying to add even more picks in the upcoming draft. There was a bullet point that I liked seeing, which is that older players are blocking the path of younger players. That's part of the impetus for making trades. Luc also mentioned that there are 13 (I think) expiring contracts (specifically said "I'm not going to name names") on the roster till the end of the 2020 season. I think we're all annoyed that Desjardins is overplaying the vets and limiting the ice time of actual producing youth for who f'ing knows why.

Muzzin trade: Luc and Cheeseman explained the thought process behind the Muzzin trade. They showed a chart of comparable trades over the years and the return for each. Also some sort of ranking system where once they felt that the offer(s) for Muzzin broke a particular threshold, it was time to make the trade. They 100% did ask for either Liljegren or Sandin (said it was their top D-man prospect), knowing they'd likely get rejected. But that the 1st was mandatory in any trade scenario and the addition of Grundstrom and Durzi pushed the offer into the pull the trigger now category. Mentioned there wasn't much of a market for players with term this trade deadline and that only Muzzin and Montour were players that were moved with term left on their deals. They feel they can get more for certain players on the roster when they're rentals next season.

Style of play: This was an interesting discussion. Basically, showed footage of plays in the league when the Kings were dominant with their style of play. Then showed footage of the same type of plays and how the plays are all penalties now. That the Kings were built around a particular philosophy that worked (mentioned not losing a game in regulation for 2 seasons when leading after 2 periods), but is no longer going to in today's NHL. It was eye opening on how checkers and defenders are so afraid to engage with puck carriers now for fear of penalties. Way less stick activity with defenders electing to leave their sticks on the ice instead. Luc mentioned that the Kings need to start filling the roster with players who can take advantage of the new rules and when showing players dance down the middle of the ice said "We don't have anyone who can/will do that" laughingly.

New coach: Not a lot of meat here, but there was some discussion about what they're looking for in the next coach. Didn't outright say WD is goners, but it was obvious that they're looking to replace him with someone who can not only handle vets, but also will develop young players. Luc said "Nobody's looking to hire a head coach whose philosophy is to win 2 to 1 anymore."

Anyway, I'm sure there is more that I've forgotten. The leadership does know that changes need to be made and where the franchise is deficient. Now, how they execute in addressing the need for change is going to tell the tale on how this team looks in 3 seasons. I don't post here much now, but if you see any value in this post and want to cross-post it in another off-season plan thread so it doesn't get lost in the Sean Durzi signing thread, go for it.

This is great stuff. Wish more of it was published! Thanks for writing all this up, I really appreciate it.
 
the thing that bothers me here is they obviously just figured this out at sometime in the first half of this season. not during the playoffs last year nor during the offseason.

that makes me pause and question if the management really knew what they're doing.

i'm hoping the kings turn it around sooner than a year...
 
Style of play: This was an interesting discussion. Basically, showed footage of plays in the league when the Kings were dominant with their style of play. Then showed footage of the same type of plays and how the plays are all penalties now. That the Kings were built around a particular philosophy that worked (mentioned not losing a game in regulation for 2 seasons when leading after 2 periods), but is no longer going to in today's NHL. It was eye opening on how checkers and defenders are so afraid to engage with puck carriers now for fear of penalties. Way less stick activity with defenders electing to leave their sticks on the ice instead. Luc mentioned that the Kings need to start filling the roster with players who can take advantage of the new rules and when showing players dance down the middle of the ice said "We don't have anyone who can/will do that" laughingly.


Hey, call me monumentally naive, but what exact rule changes went into effect after we won our Stanley Cups that made our style of play penalty-prone? Can ONE new classification of penalty please be cited as an example? Thanks!!!
 
Hey, call me monumentally naive, but what exact rule changes went into effect after we won our Stanley Cups that made our style of play penalty-prone? Can ONE new classification of penalty please be cited as an example? Thanks!!!

They just call obstruction, slashing etc...tighter than before.

Today's playoff hockey does not look close to 2012, IMO. 2012 didn't look like 2007 and so on.
 
They just call obstruction, slashing etc...tighter than before.

Today's playoff hockey does not look close to 2012, IMO. 2012 didn't look like 2007 and so on.


But why would that necessarily translate into "a heavy, defensive system should be exchanged for a light, 'run & gun' system..." ???? I'm not seeing it. Methinks Luc ain't so bright.
 
But why would that necessarily translate into "a heavy, defensive system should be exchanged for a light, 'run & gun' system..." ???? I'm not seeing it. Methinks Luc ain't so bright.

Not defending Luc, but I don't think they are against heavy as long as the heavy can skate.
 
But why would that necessarily translate into "a heavy, defensive system should be exchanged for a light, 'run & gun' system..." ???? I'm not seeing it. Methinks Luc ain't so bright.

I don’t think those things are mutually exclusive. See this article for some insight: McIndoe: Calling more penalties won't fix scoring issue

The Kings during their cup years relied on hampering opposing players on zone entry by using their sticks and free hands. This “obstruction” was a focal point for referees to crack down on: call clutching and grabbing, call interference, call hooking. Anything to the hands - which guys like Mitchell and Regehr were pretty good at - gets called pretty regularly now, especially with the hand-waving theatrics of players like Johnny Hockey.

Which isn’t to say that you can’t be a heavy team, but if you’re a slower player and you don’t have certain ways to slow players down that maybe you’ve been used to in your career, you will be less effective.

Who are the effective heavy players? Tom Wilson certainly comes to mind. But guys like Regehr and, say, Matt Greene would be completely ineffective in today’s NHL. They can’t interfere with players entering the zone, so they would get beat. It’s why a guy like Forbort is so frustrating to watch - he’s this huge body and all he does is keeps his stick on the ice trying to block passing lanes. It’s the right play - minimize the opponent’s effectiveness - but it’s so boring to watch.

The smaller, faster players were harmed the most when you were able to grab them, slow them down with your sticks, and what have you. But with those rules being tightened up, and an increased focus on player safety overall, these highly skilled players are much safer to skate into the middle of the offensive zone without fear of getting their head taken off.

Heavy players can still be effective, but most of them don’t have the stick handling skills and agility required for “pretty” hockey, and they aren’t fast enough to catch up to the guys that do.

This is obviously a big, sweeping generalization of half the league, but you get the gist of it. The Dwight Kings of the league couldn’t keep up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DoktorJeep
Heavy players can still be effective, but most of them don’t have the stick handling skills and agility required for “pretty” hockey, and they aren’t fast enough to catch up to the guys that do.


HQLAbCT.gif
 
the thing that bothers me here is they obviously just figured this out at sometime in the first half of this season. not during the playoffs last year nor during the offseason.

that makes me pause and question if the management really knew what they're doing.

i'm hoping the kings turn it around sooner than a year...

Just 9 months ago these guys were running around saying the Kings are contenders when they signed Kovalchuk etc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dexter Sinister
Just 9 months ago these guys were running around saying the Kings are contenders when they signed Kovalchuk etc.

That was actually something that they kind of addressed during the meeting. That they made a huge mistake by looking at the previous season's results and thinking, well if we tweak a little here and add this, instead of having 98 points we'll have 104 or something like that. That Blake said to ownership they need to take the approach that it's going to be a ground-level re-evaluation of everything every offseason. No projections based on previous season's results.
 
That was actually something that they kind of addressed during the meeting. That they made a huge mistake by looking at the previous season's results and thinking, well if we tweak a little here and add this, instead of having 98 points we'll have 104 or something like that. That Blake said to ownership they need to take the approach that it's going to be a ground-level re-evaluation of everything every offseason. No projections based on previous season's results.

To be quite honest, management doesn’t have much credibility with me. They say it’s a huge mistake and they’ll re-evaluate everything at the end of the season but does anyone here honestly trust their judgement? This team went from “contenders” to lottery team overnight. That’s a serious lapse in judgement, imo.
 
To be quite honest, management doesn’t have much credibility with me. They say it’s a huge mistake and they’ll re-evaluate everything at the end of the season but does anyone here honestly trust their judgement? This team went from “contenders” to lottery team overnight. That’s a serious lapse in judgement, imo.

It’s fair to not trust their judgment, but it’s also possible they have actually learned from their gross miscalculation last offseason.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BallPointHammer
It’s fair to not trust their judgment, but it’s also possible they have actually learned from their gross miscalculation last offseason.

Exactly, having run two companies from the highest level management positions, I know how mistakes made early on can be the building blocks for better decisions when similar situations arise later on in your career. One of the hardest things to do is let go of personnel that may be average, the most loyal or just great people but when you analyze their performance, they are hurting the long term progression of the department they are in.

I remember having to fire an employee in our Newport Beach office that I probably kept 3 years too long but he worked epic hours and was perhaps the best human being in the company. That said, he was a terrible producer though and had to go. I would have probably kept him if I was new in the position.
 
the thing that bothers me here is they obviously just figured this out at sometime in the first half of this season. not during the playoffs last year nor during the offseason.

that makes me pause and question if the management really knew what they're doing.

i'm hoping the kings turn it around sooner than a year...
Well, at least the realization that they grossly over estimated the teams capabilities came early in the season. And since then the focus on the future has been acted upon. That STH event leaves me very encouraged that the FO is on this. So, hey, going forward this will be an interesting and fun process.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad