Confirmed with Link: Kings Sign Kopitar (2 Years/ $7m AAV)

[Buddy The Elf]

It's just tough to try and say the Kings cup winning teams are comparable to this current team.

You had arguably the best goalie and best defenseman in the NHL and a #1 C who was considered one of the best all-around in the NHL. All of these players were in the primes of their career.

This current Kings team doesn't have a high end 1C, 1D or 1G. It's a big difference.

I was thinking about this today coincidentally. Nobody legitimately thought the Kings were a favorite to win the Cup at the beginning of 2012. Certainly not most around here. That said, it's not out of the question that Clarke and Dubois could fill two of those three roles as early as this season. I know that's high expectations but it's not out of the realm of possibility. I'm not by any means advocating the personnel decisions on this team more than I'm pointing the obvious that none of us our experts. i remember going at it with you back in the day and you were very critical of DL during a good portion of his tenure. I lost all faith when he hired Sutter and I distinctly remember that being because all of the post lockout Cup winners were top ten in goal scoring and from my memory Sutter had never coached a team that fit that description. I'm going of memories that I can't stand by as fact and on that note I will quit rambling.....

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

IMO:

Blake has done a good job putting together a '2nd round' roster.

But it'll still be a 1st round exit due to goaltending and coaching.

IF any of Byfield, Clarke, or a goalie du jour go nuclear, it could be a 2nd round exit instead of a 1st.

But this isn't the Avs or the 2010 Hawks, they're not head and shoulders better enough offensively than everyone else that they can overcome volatile goaltending, nor will their system let them...being down and still playing passive 1-3-1 tells you everything you need to know.

 

[Herby]

I was thinking about this today coincidentally. Nobody legitimately thought the Kings were a favorite to win the Cup at the beginning of 2012. Certainly not most around here. That said, it's not out of the question that Clarke and Dubois could fill two of those three roles as early as this season. I know that's high expectations but it's not out of the realm of possibility. I'm not by any means advocating the personnel decisions on this team more than I'm pointing the obvious that none of us our experts. i remember going at it with you back in the day and you were very critical of DL during a good portion of his tenure. I lost all faith when he hired Sutter and I distinctly remember that being because all of the post lockout Cup winners were top ten in goal scoring and from my memory Sutter had never coached a team that fit that description. I'm going of memories that I can't stand by as fact and on that note I will quit rambling.....

My biggest issue with Lombardi was they couldn’t draft and develop scorers. And I think that is ultimately what did him in years later.

Lombardi did get extremely lucky to inherit Kopitar who was a plug and play star as a teenager, and Quick who had a rare combination of athleticism and compete.

But he ended up drafting another superstar and made the right moves in adding veterans. Which I think Blake has done well at also. But it’s just hard to ignore it understate just how bad the Byfield and Turcotte picks have been. Those are probably Blake’s most important decisions as GM and both have been disasters thus far.

 

[johnjm22]

Situations are never exactly comparable, but there are aspects you can compare.

That 2012 team did need a lot of stuff to go their way. A lot of changes had to be made through out the season.

2012 Team Needed:
-A 25yo, 3rd round pick goalie to go from being a mid tier starter to a Vezina candidate, and arguably the best player in the league for that year.

-A 21yo rookie Dman with no NHL experience to come in and play on the 2nd pairing

-The entire 4th line had to be swapped out. Including bringing in a 7th round pick rookie on wing.

-Another no name rookie had to come in and play 3rd line wing. Who we relied on to score keys goals in the playoffs.

-To make a late season trade to acquire a top 6 forward.

-To make a coaching change.


^That's a lot of stuff.

This years team will also need a lot to go their way. Clarke will need to hit the ground running. Byfield would certainly have to take a big step forward. As would one or two of our other young players to fill in roles like LHD and RW. A goalie will need to be acquired, and possibly a depth wing or D.

The 2012 roster was more cohesive with an identity. More foundationally sound. The current roster has more offensive flair, but isn't as structurally sound. Many of the forwards don't have the 2-way game you need in the playoffs. TMac has a history of coming up short in the playoffs, while Sutter IMO was an elite playoff coach. Still, I think the current team is capable of making a run if some things go their way. I'm looking forward to it.

 

[Herby]

Situations are never exactly comparable, but there are aspects you can compare.

That 2012 team did need a lot of stuff to go their way. A lot of changes had to be made through out the season.

2012 Team Needed:
-A 25yo, 3rd round pick goalie to go from being a mid tier starter to a Vezina candidate, and arguably the best player in the league for that year.

-A 21yo rookie Dman with no NHL experience to come in and play on the 2nd pairing

-The entire 4th line had to be swapped out. Including bringing in a 7th round pick rookie on wing.

-Another no name rookie had to come in and play 3rd line wing. Who we relied on to score keys goals in the playoffs.

-To make a late season trade to acquire a top 6 forward.

-To make a coaching change.


^That's a lot of stuff.

This years team will also need a lot to go their way. Clarke will need to hit the ground running. Byfield would certainly have to take a big step forward. As would one or two of our other young players to fill in roles like LHD and RW. A goalie will need to be acquired, and possibly a depth wing or D.

The 2012 roster was more cohesive with an identity. More foundationally sound. The current roster has more offensive flair, but isn't as structurally sound. Many of the forwards don't have the 2-way game you need in the playoffs. TMac has a history of coming up short in the playoffs, while Sutter IMO was an elite playoff coach. Still, I think the current team is capable of making a run if some things go their way. I'm looking forward to it.

A lot did go right, but they certainly validated how great they were the next two seasons.

Another similarity is addressing what was a major weakness on both teams. The Kings weren't winning a cup with Stoll as the 2C, and the same was true of Danault. And in both cases it was the team kind of giving up on a highly drafted C, in the 2011-12 one it was moving on completely and now it's moving him to wing for the foreseeable future.

Danault is better than Stoll as a 3C and it's possible that PLD could be Richards caliber 2C, but the lack of a real #1 C still looms large. Kopi still does a lot of things well, but ideally if you are contending he should be your 2C.

In 2014 once Frattin fizzled out and Richards collapsed the Kings needed two players on ELC's to be productive scoring line players by the time the playoffs rolled around. That is going to be Kaliyev and Byfield this year. Kaliyev in his fifth year since being drafted, Byfield in his fourth as a Top 2 pick, the training wheels have to come off and production should be expected from both players. No more excuses for either.

 

[King'sPawn]

A lot did go right, but they certainly validated how great they were the next two seasons.

Another similarity is addressing what was a major weakness on both teams. The Kings weren't winning a cup with Stoll as the 2C, and the same was true of Danault. And in both cases it was the team kind of giving up on a highly drafted C, in the 2011-12 one it was moving on completely and now it's moving him to wing for the foreseeable future.

Danault is better than Stoll as a 3C and it's possible that PLD could be Richards caliber 2C, but the lack of a real #1 C still looms large. Kopi still does a lot of things well, but ideally if you are contending he should be your 2C.

In 2014 once Frattin fizzled out and Richards collapsed the Kings needed two players on ELC's to be productive scoring line players by the time the playoffs rolled around. That is going to be Kaliyev and Byfield this year. Kaliyev in his fifth year since being drafted, Byfield in his fourth as a Top 2 pick, the training wheels have to come off and production should be expected from both players. No more excuses for either.

Which is why, ideally, these core players got a lot more playing time before this season to get their reps in.

Same with Clarke, Bjornfot, and Spence. Their time shouldn't have been wasted while Walker and Durzi bumbled their way throughout the season.

 

[Trash Panda]

Which is why, ideally, these core players got a lot more playing time before this season to get their reps in.

Same with Clarke, Bjornfot, and Spence. Their time shouldn't have been wasted while Walker and Durzi bumbled their way throughout the season.

The insane use of Walker, Edler, Macewen, and the like this season was just a complete head scratcher.

Had players in the minors or on the bench, who needed reps ready to go, and instead chose to play a collective of bums.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The insane use of Walker, Edler, Macewen, and the like this season was just a complete head scratcher.

Had players in the minors or on the bench, who needed reps ready to go, and instead chose to play a collective of bums.

I'm not emotionally prepared for a year of

"well Clarke and Spence aren't ready, so we've decided to roll with Englund and this vet we picked up on waivers"

 

[Herby]

The insane use of Walker, Edler, Macewen, and the like this season was just a complete head scratcher.

Had players in the minors or on the bench, who needed reps ready to go, and instead chose to play a collective of bums.

The Kings chose to send Clarke back to junior to put up video game stats, when most teams would have had him in the NHL.

Look at the defenseman he was passed over for a roster spot last season. Durzi, Walker and Edler. They are all gone, and none of them contributed to any success for the Kings last year. What a waste.

I will say I think they are setting the table for him to play this year, and that is good. But just like with the QB disaster decision in 20-21 you are limiting their opportunities and delaying the inevitable growing pains that will come no matter what. Now this growing pains and adjustments happen with a team with a do or die mindset.

Just ridiculous that QB and Clarke both don’t have an extra 50 games of NHL experience coming into this season. Held back to make room for Edler, Durzi and Walker to contribute almost nothing and for Vilardi to play a season as a C when it should have been obvious it had no future there.

The QB damage has been apparent from the start, hopefully it’s not the same with Clarke. Atleast it was the OHL and not the AHL.

 

[Telos]

I'm not emotionally prepared for a year of

"well Clarke and Spence aren't ready, so we've decided to roll with Englund and this vet we picked up on waivers"

This x1000. Spence and Clarke are ready. It sucks because we still have the right-handed log jam if Roy is still on the team playing right, which isn't a bad thing, but if either have to sit for Englund which I am sure they will then that is just teeth-gritting annoying and I feel especially bad for Spence if he keeps getting jerked around.

 

[Trash Panda]

I'm not emotionally prepared for a year of

"well Clarke and Spence aren't ready, so we've decided to roll with Englund and this vet we picked up on waivers"

“We need to play the experienced players, in order to help us *win now”

*win now, meaning get bounced in 6 games from round 1.

 

[Sol]

This upcoming season is going to be defined by Byfield. The path of the team comes down to him. He can’t have another mediocre year with minimal improvement.

 

[YP44]

This upcoming season is going to be defined by Byfield. The path of the team comes down to him. He can’t have another mediocre year with minimal improvement.

i don't know he can play well and have his stats improve, but this year could still be defined by shit goaltending.

Lots of story lines that can play out, QB definitely should feel some pressure though

 

[Sol]

i don't know he can play well and have his stats improve, but this year could still be defined by shit goaltending.

Lots of story lines that can play out, QB definitely should feel some pressure though

Shit goaltending or not but the pathway of this team will be determined by Byfield. The future isn’t bright with just PLD and Danault. Kings need byfield to become a great player to make all this bullshit that Blake has pulled worth it or it would have all just been an expensive giant waste of time.

 

[bouncesonly]

I'm not emotionally prepared for a year of

"well Clarke and Spence aren't ready, so we've decided to roll with Englund and this vet we picked up on waivers"

This is where LA "media" is absolutely spineless. They don't have to be douchey like Canadian media but at least have one person not ask ChatGPT questions during interviews.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

This is where LA "media" is absolutely spineless. They don't have to be douchey like Canadian media but at least have one person not ask ChatGPT questions during interviews.

We are like one step away from 'email us your questions and we'll respond to a few at our leisure' anyway

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The amount of media that is left to cover the Kings write for websites geared towards fans, and there's only a handful of them. The current state of affairs for hockey coverage in this market is quite sad.

 

[YP44]

The amount of media that is left to cover the Kings write for websites geared towards fans, and there's only a handful of them. The current state of affairs for hockey coverage in this market is quite sad.

The stuff on the Athletic for the Kings compared to other teams is terrible. I read Flyers stuff alot, their team is in shambles but the content is a million times better.

 

[Sol]

I’m subscribed to the forum report by Jon Rosen and he’s pretty good at blasting the Kings

 

[Telos]

The stuff on the Athletic for the Kings compared to other teams is terrible. I read Flyers stuff alot, their team is in shambles but the content is a million times better.

Agreed. Ever since they axed Lisa Dillman, the Athletic has gone down the tubes for Kings coverage. Eric Stephens isn't an idiot, but he is primarily the Ducks writer, is overtaxed with covering too much, and just isn't as well-versed with the Kings as a dedicated beat writer should be.

I’m subscribed to the forum report by Jon Rosen and he’s pretty good at blasting the Kings

I too was subscribed, but Jon Rosen has refunded everyone and has opened his site free to everyone; however, he has definitely pumped the brakes on updates and stated in one of his most recent posts that:

"the site will transition towards a column-based Kings and NHL approach in which I’ll throw up scoops and breaking news when appropriate but focus more on the experiential, gonzo-style journalism I prefer. Similar to the recent LAX article, I also plan on writing about Los Angeles lifestyle with some travel writing sewn in. I’m in the process of building a blueprint for next season, but it won’t include daily beat coverage."

The future of Forum Report

Reform, Lamar. Reform.

theforumreport.com

I am not sure we are going to continue to receive the updates and coverage that we used to, and if so we won't be receiving it nearly at the frequency that we did last season... Sucks man.

 

[BigKing]

Good stuff here regarding the 2012 stuff and then the prospect talk. When @Herby brings up the '14 team needing Toffoli and Pearson, it really made me think about Kaliyev. Toffoli was allowed to develop as a prospect to the point that he was basically just plugged into the 2013 playoffs. Then they still started him in the AHL in 2014 until they brought him up in November and he never looked back.

The argument on here is that these guys should have more NHL games. I'm on board with that if the team was allowed to act like the DL squads up to Doughty's second season when it was time to push for the playoffs but that's not the case here: Blake decided they needed to make the playoffs in Byfield's D+2 year after a D+1 year that saw him not play that much hockey in general.

So back to Kaliyev. Instead of getting bigger minutes in the AHL to work on his deficiencies, he's up here getting limited minutes while skating on the 4th line at 5 v 5 for the most part. Could Toffoli have potted some goals in his D+2 year and shown promise? Sure. Would he have been as good in 2014 if he was a 4th line player/2nd PP unit guy for two/three seasons prior to that v. bigger minutes in Manchester where he can get more reps in a men's league so he can learn how to overcome skating issues? I don't know.

This development staff is just all over the place. Certain guys they rush into Ontario. Other guys mostly bypass Ontario only to get limited minutes or get utilized in roles that aren't conducive to their skillsets. Couldn't Byfield have gone down to the OHL in 2022? I understand a 2OA in his D+2 still being in juniors is a rough look but I only say this because they rolled Brandt Clarke down there after limiting him to training camp, pre-season, 14 pro games and the WJC from September through January. Who needed it more: Byfield or Clarke? The latter was nearly 2PPG from the blueline. It's silly.

We've seen Blake's plan though, or at least the result of his latest plan. Team is going to have to be short a full roster to be under the cap. Guess moving one of Clarke's ELC years was more important than potentially winning more games in 2023. Of course, Blake trades a 1st and a Kings legend to go all-in on a team that he intentionally sandbagged in favor of ELC slides.

It's all so exhausting and why there is so much bitching on here. There was a lot of bitching about DL. Hell, I wanted him to get Kovalchuk. At least with DL though, he told you his plan and had his little boxes etc. When Teddy Purcell didn't look like the guy he thought would fill LW1 or whatever, he cut bait. Blake signs or trades for the guy to fill the box and then holds on to Purcell anyways and wonders why he isn't living up to expectations. When he gets a surprise box filler, he hands out his standard $4-5MM contract after a small sample size to the detriment of the higher pedigree potential guys that he selected.

It's all very DT era except that there is supposed to be a real development team in place v. sharing an AHL affiliation with another team. There is also ownership that isn't shy to spend v. how they acted during DTs time as GM. DT was out there drafting 24 and 25 year old Europeans because the Kings development sucked. He had to try and build through trades. Blake has used so many draft picks and has the AHL team right down the street and it hasn't meant much so far. Rough look.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Good stuff here regarding the 2012 stuff and then the prospect talk. When @Herby brings up the '14 team needing Toffoli and Pearson, it really made me think about Kaliyev. Toffoli was allowed to develop as a prospect to the point that he was basically just plugged into the 2013 playoffs. Then they still started him in the AHL in 2014 until they brought him up in November and he never looked back.

The argument on here is that these guys should have more NHL games. I'm on board with that if the team was allowed to act like the DL squads up to Doughty's second season when it was time to push for the playoffs but that's not the case here: Blake decided they needed to make the playoffs in Byfield's D+2 year after a D+1 year that saw him not play that much hockey in general.

So back to Kaliyev. Instead of getting bigger minutes in the AHL to work on his deficiencies, he's up here getting limited minutes while skating on the 4th line at 5 v 5 for the most part. Could Toffoli have potted some goals in his D+2 year and shown promise? Sure. Would he have been as good in 2014 if he was a 4th line player/2nd PP unit guy for two/three seasons prior to that v. bigger minutes in Manchester where he can get more reps in a men's league so he can learn how to overcome skating issues? I don't know.

This development staff is just all over the place. Certain guys they rush into Ontario. Other guys mostly bypass Ontario only to get limited minutes or get utilized in roles that aren't conducive to their skillsets. Couldn't Byfield have gone down to the OHL in 2022? I understand a 2OA in his D+2 still being in juniors is a rough look but I only say this because they rolled Brandt Clarke down there after limiting him to training camp, pre-season, 14 pro games and the WJC from September through January. Who needed it more: Byfield or Clarke? The latter was nearly 2PPG from the blueline. It's silly.

We've seen Blake's plan though, or at least the result of his latest plan. Team is going to have to be short a full roster to be under the cap. Guess moving one of Clarke's ELC years was more important than potentially winning more games in 2023. Of course, Blake trades a 1st and a Kings legend to go all-in on a team that he intentionally sandbagged in favor of ELC slides.

It's all so exhausting and why there is so much bitching on here. There was a lot of bitching about DL. Hell, I wanted him to get Kovalchuk. At least with DL though, he told you his plan and had his little boxes etc. When Teddy Purcell didn't look like the guy he thought would fill LW1 or whatever, he cut bait. Blake signs or trades for the guy to fill the box and then holds on to Purcell anyways and wonders why he isn't living up to expectations. When he gets a surprise box filler, he hands out his standard $4-5MM contract after a small sample size to the detriment of the higher pedigree potential guys that he selected.

It's all very DT era except that there is supposed to be a real development team in place v. sharing an AHL affiliation with another team. There is also ownership that isn't shy to spend v. how they acted during DTs time as GM. DT was out there drafting 24 and 25 year old Europeans because the Kings development sucked. He had to try and build through trades. Blake has used so many draft picks and has the AHL team right down the street and it hasn't meant much so far. Rough look.

I love all of this but especially to the last point--

if it were one or two guys not hacking it it would be one thing, but in our ongoing discussions about Turcotte et. al. we are missing that NONE of the guys are making it. If they're quite literally ALL--or CLOSE to all--busting, that leans towards development rather than drafting imo. Even a blind squirrel could figure out one or two guys, but when the guys that look like they belong are being artificially deferred and the guys that look like they need work are just being buried, it's more than a rough look, it's pretty close to active self-sabotage.

(maybe busting isn't the right word but none of them are being given the opportunity to succeed for us to know if they're busts or just being artificially repressed).

I am damn near 100% convinced at this point that Blake and co are going to pick up a waivers vet on D to keep Spence and Clarke and especially Bjornfot in and out of the lineup. It'll be for 'depth' but they'll play the guy like Walker.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Weird thing is Nelson Emerson was the director of player development during the Lombardi era and has been in that role since 2008-09, and was just recently promoted to Assistant GM. Now Glen Murray holds that title.

 

[tigermask48]

Fully expecting Englund and Connauton to dress over Spence, Moverare, Clarke, Bjornfot this year...

 

[DyslexicTom]

I think it really does come down to Blake and McLellan. The coach will play who he wants to play, and Blake will sign and trade the players he wants. They've been half-assing the "rebuild" this whole time and now we've got a black hole team as a result.

As far as I can tell, Blake has been a reactive GM this whole time—no real plan to speak of for the past 8 years or so.