Rumor: KINGS 2018-19 Season - The Luc and Rob ****show

[KingsHockey24]

Back in August, if Clifford was tied with Carter, Kovalchuk, Toffoli, and Iafallo for 3rd on the team in goal scoring after 29 games, that would've meant one of two things. Either things are quite good, or they're quite bad. There would be no in between with such a stat.

Hopefully this means Upper Deck will give me more Kyle Clifford cards to collect.

 

[Herby]

I do agree that it would have been unrealistic to expect any key players traded after the cup run. Obviously bringing back Richards and Greene (who weren't key players) was a huge blunder, but they weren't close to the level of Muzzin, Carter or Martinez. But each successive season it should have been considered more and more, and the fact that it's now been five offseasons since that cup win and they are all still here is just horrific asset management.

 

[KINGS17]

7 goals, 11 assists, and the Kings have played 30 games, yet the 1C making a cap hit of $10M a season isn't considered to be a problem?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I do agree that it would have been unrealistic to expect any key players traded after the cup run. Obviously bringing back Richards and Greene (who weren't key players) was a huge blunder, but they weren't close to the level of Muzzin, Carter or Martinez. But each successive season it should have been considered more and more, and the fact that it's now been five offseasons since that cup win and they are all still here is just horrific asset management.

Again, hyperbole, it hasn't been 5 off-seasons, won the cup in 2013-2014, so 2014 -2015 off season, 2015 -2016 offseason, 2016 -2017 offseason, 2017-2018 offseason, 4 offseasons, and your point is aboslutely valid. And we don't know for sure if it wasn't explored, or what the return could have been etc, I do agree as you keep going forward the return will be less and less, but that can be said about any team etc.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

7 goals, 11 assists, and the Kings have played 30 games, yet the 1C making a cap hit of $10M a season isn't considered to be a problem?

Not sure where that's been said, I think everyone and their mother has jumped on the blame Kopitar bandwagon, having said that, he has picked up his game the past few weeks, but after such a brutal start, that's not setting the bar high.

 

[Herby]

Again, hyperbole, it hasn't been 5 off-seasons, won the cup in 2013-2014, so 2014 -2015 off season, 2015 -2016 offseason, 2016 -2017 offseason, 2017-2018 offseason, 4 offseasons, and your point is abo****ely valid. And we don't know for sure if it wasn't explored, or what the return could have been etc, I do agree as you keep going forward the return will be less and less, but that can be said about any team etc.

There have been 5 offseasons since the Kings won the cup.

Summer of 14
Summer of 15
Summer of 16
Summer of 17
Summer of 18

Even if you want to disregard moving on from anyone after 2014 (even though it's far from unheard of). That is still 4 offseasons with 1 combined playoff win. Why did we let Carter and others value significantly fall?

 

[Cook24]

Ducks need a LHD... Martinez for Max Jones yea?

 

[KingsFan7824]

7 goals, 11 assists, and the Kings have played 30 games, yet the 1C making a cap hit of $10M a season isn't considered to be a problem?

Lombardi missed the boat to trade him in the summer of 2014 and 2015, and then when they were in 1st place, he wasn't going to let him walk, I don't care how much tough negotiating he was doing with him. He wasn't trading him after getting Lucic. He wasn't going to let him walk for nothing. The day Quick got his Cup contract was the day Kopitar got his too.

Yes, the $10m is a problem. Every contract after 2012 has been a problem. There was no realistic alternative though. Had every guy been traded before the 3rd contract, and after the Cups, it wouldn't have been about how smart Lombardi was, it would've been how cheap the organization is.

 

[Herby]

I have no issues with Kopitar's contract or retiring a King. The Kings are still trying to run a business and he is the face of the franchise. Kopitar playing 18 years in LA and never putting on another sweater and going down as the greatest player in franchise history is fine by me. I think Doughty is a bit different because he had more value, isn't as marketable or known and Kopitar already had that "ticket selling face of franchise role locked up"

 

[Bandit]

7 goals, 11 assists, and the Kings have played 30 games, yet the 1C making a cap hit of $10M a season isn't considered to be a problem?

Who isn't considering it a problem? EVERYTHING with this franchise is a problem right now from the President down to the assistant jock strap inspector.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

There have been 5 offseasons since the Kings won the cup.

Summer of 14
Summer of 15
Summer of 16
Summer of 17
Summer of 18

Even if you want to disregard moving on from anyone after 2014 (even though it's far from unheard of). That is still 4 offseasons with 1 combined playoff win. Why did we let Carter and others value significantly fall?

Because this isn't a video game, it's real life? Not sure what else to tell you, people have faith in other people, you had 2 years of year long injuries, one to Quick one to Carter, so they will look at that and go, only if. So they keep having faith....trading Pearson is a start...let's see what else they do, but in answer of your question of why....because real life.

 

[Herby]

Because this isn't a video game, it's real life? Not sure what else to tell you, people have faith in other people, you had 2 years of year long injuries, one to Quick one to Carter, so they will look at that and go, only if. So they keep having faith....trading Pearson is a start...let's see what else they do, but in answer of your question of why....because real life.

I guess all those other teams who have been able to turnover their rosters must be living in some kind of dream world.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I guess all those other teams who have been able to turnover their rosters must be living in some kind of dream world.

Yes, because Chicago was able to move on from Kane and Toews...oh wait, you must mean Pittsburgh who has been able to move on from Malkin, Crosby, oh wait...no, Washington who has been able to move on from Ovechkin and Backstrom and Kuznet...oh wait...

Give me a break about turning over the roster crap....if you want to act like Carter is just another run of the mill 2nd line C, easily replaceable, go for it.

Same with Muzzin and Martinez as a 2nd pairing type D...cmon man,

If you want to talk about Clifford and Lewis to an extent, sure, I can get behind that, even Toffoli, etc, sure.

But everything else is just nonsense.

 

[KINGS17]

Who isn't considering it a problem? EVERYTHING with this franchise is a problem right now from the President down to the assistant jock strap inspector.

I watched some of the game last night and the new coach passed on through Jim Fox doesn't seem to think it's a big problem.

 

[KINGS17]

I have no issues with Kopitar's contract or retiring a King. The Kings are still trying to run a business and he is the face of the franchise. Kopitar playing 18 years in LA and never putting on another sweater and going down as the greatest player in franchise history is fine by me. I think Doughty is a bit different because he had more value, isn't as marketable or known and Kopitar already had that "ticket selling face of franchise role locked up"

Why is Kopitar the face of the franchise? Quick, Brown, Doughty are all better choices.

You are probably correct in this assessment. Kopitar is a fine player, but he disappoints far too often in effort and production for what he is paid to be the face of the franchise for me. If I had to choose, it would be Quick #1, Brown #2.

 

[Herby]

Yes, because Chicago was able to move on from Kane and Toews...oh wait, you must mean Pittsburgh who has been able to move on from Malkin, Crosby, oh wait...no, Washington who has been able to move on from Ovechkin and Backstrom and Kuznet...oh wait...

Give me a break about turning over the roster crap....if you want to act like Carter is just another run of the mill 2nd line C, easily replaceable, go for it.

Same with Muzzin and Martinez as a 2nd pairing type D...cmon man,

If you want to talk about Clifford and Lewis to an extent, sure, I can get behind that, even Toffoli, etc, sure.

But everything else is just nonsense.

Yes because Carter, Muzzin and Martinez compare to the 6 (of 7) Hall of Fame players you used as examples.

So #2 centers and 2nd pair defenseman never get traded in the NHL, is that what you're trying to say?

Just amazing that with 1 playoff win in 5 seasons you are ok with keeping declining assets rather than trading them for younger players in an attempt to win a championship sooner.

 

[tomd]

Yes because Carter, Muzzin and Martinez compare to the 6 (of 7) Hall of Fame players you used as examples.

So #2 centers and 2nd pair defenseman never get traded in the NHL, is that what you're trying to say?

Just amazing that with 1 playoff win in 5 seasons you are ok with keeping declining assets rather than trading them for younger players in an attempt to win a championship sooner.

I think he was referring to the $10 million club in LA, Chicago, Pittsburgh, and Washington. Those players are very hard to move. Carter? Sure he can be moved but you won't like the return. Muzzin has value at the deadline but LA has no depth to replace him so we'll see how that goes. Trading Martinez would be a mistake IMO since he seems to be one of the very few players who actually is still trying. You need to surround your young players with guys like Martinez so they don't catch the disease that is infecting all the other players on the team. Just my $0.02

 

[Herby]

I think he was referring to the $10 million club in LA, Chicago, Pittsburgh, and Washington. Those players are very hard to move. Carter? Sure he can be moved but you won't like the return. Muzzin has value at the deadline but LA has no depth to replace him so we'll see how that goes. Trading Martinez would be a mistake IMO since he seems to be one of the very few players who actually is still trying. You need to surround your young players with guys like Martinez so they don't catch the disease that is infecting all the other players on the team. Just my $0.02

Well most people here aren't saying they should have moved Doughty or Kopitar. And even those that did want to move them acknowledge how tough it would be. But I think it's fair to question why so few of the secondary players haven't been moved over these 5 miserable seasons since the cup win in 2014. As far as veterans for the younger players, well Lombardi had the perfect strategy, he signed cheap but quality lockerroom veterans like Scott Thornton after he unloaded guys like Demitra, Norstrom, Conroy and Sopel who had value around the league. The Kings aren't contenders and won't be contenders while Carter and AMart are still productive players, we shouldn't be worried about replacing them in 2018 or 2019, we should be worried about getting picks and prospects who will replace them in 2021 and beyond.

 

[tomd]

Well most people here aren't saying they should have moved Doughty or Kopitar. And even those that did want to move them acknowledge how tough it would be. But I think it's fair to question why so few of the secondary players haven't been moved over these 5 miserable seasons since the cup win in 2014. As far as veterans for the younger players, well Lombardi had the perfect strategy, he signed cheap but quality lockerroom veterans like Scott Thornton after he unloaded guys like Demitra, Norstrom, Conroy and Sopel who had value around the league. The Kings aren't contenders and won't be contenders while Carter and AMart are still productive players, we shouldn't be worried about replacing them in 2018 or 2019, we should be worried about getting picks and prospects who will replace them in 2021 and beyond.

You rip players like Carter, Toffoli, and Muzzin (and rightly so) and then expect that Blake can get a quality return for them. How is that possible? Carter and Toffoli will NOT return a 1st or a top prospect. Muzzin might but it would have to be the perfect situation at TDL. Martinez I like a lot but I'm not sure any team is willing to part with a 1st for him. Blake is working from a position of EXTREME weakness. Other GM's are not going to play nice and do him any favors. So Blake can ride with what he has or clean house at discounted prices (which means more Pearson-Hagalin type trades). Which do you prefer?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

 

[Herby]

You rip players like Carter, Toffoli, and Muzzin (and rightly so) and then expect that Blake can get a quality return for them. How is that possible? Carter and Toffoli will NOT return a 1st or a top prospect. Muzzin might but it would have to be the perfect situation at TDL. Martinez I like a lot but I'm not sure any team is willing to part with a 1st for him. Blake is working from a position of EXTREME weakness. Other GM's are not going to play nice and do him any favors. So Blake can ride with what he has or clean house at discounted prices (which means more Pearson-Hagalin type trades). Which do you prefer?

Well my biggest beef is that nothing has been done over these four years. It should have been obvious to everyone after the 2017 season that the Kings days of contending were clearly over, and you had a 32 year old player coming off a very good season with a manageable cap hit that could have brought a very nice piece back that will help the Kings after the rebuild. Jeff Carter was never going to be a part of a Kings cup winning team again so he should have been moved for something that maybe would. But the problem with the Kings is they continue to believe they are contenders, and all it's doing is pushing back the time it's going to take to get back to that point. Had a rebuild started in the summer of 2016 or the summer of 2017 instead of the summer of 2019 (lol, I know) we would be two years closer.

 

[Herby]

Two teams that have been horribly mismanaged for the last few years, not surprising.

 

[KINGS17]

It's difficult to hold players with 8-year, $80M+ contracts and NMCs accountable.

The GMs can't learn, so I think the owners will fix it in the next CBA.

 

[tomd]

Well my biggest beef is that nothing has been done over these four years. It should have been obvious to everyone after the 2017 season that the Kings days of contending were clearly over, and you had a 32 year old player coming off a very good season with a manageable cap hit that could have brought a very nice piece back that will help the Kings after the rebuild. Jeff Carter was never going to be a part of a Kings cup winning team again so he should have been moved for something that maybe would. But the problem with the Kings is they continue to believe they are contenders, and all it's doing is pushing back the time it's going to take to get back to that point. Had a rebuild started in the summer of 2016 or the summer of 2017 instead of the summer of 2019 (lol, I know) we would be two years closer.

All that is water under the bridge. Right now though, Blake is in a box partly of his own making and mostly from Lombardi's making. It is just tiring to keep reading that every underperforming Kings player is worth a 1st or a top prospect to other teams. They just aren't.

 

[Herby]

All that is water under the bridge. Right now though, Blake is in a box partly of his own making and mostly from Lombardi's making. It is just tiring to keep reading that every underperforming Kings player is worth a 1st or a top prospect to other teams. They just aren't.

I agree with you. Blake inherited a complete dumpster fire from Lombardi, but all he has done is added more fuel to it with his decisions.