KRM
Registered User
helicecopter said:
No he wasn't but him and Lilja Huselius were out drinking the night before a tournament game, picked up a girl and gangbanged until 4 am.
Kim Johnson says no to Olympics
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No he wasn't but him and Lilja Huselius were out drinking the night before a tournament game, picked up a girl and gangbanged until 4 am.
helicecopter said:
No. But his behaviour was nonetheless disgraceful. It is possible to behave immoral and disgraceful even though you don't break any laws.
Vikke
ViktorAllvin twitter
Krm500 said:
I think athletes do this kind of thing all the time. Don't you think a one year suspension is a little harsh?
You have got to be kidding me. Do you think that was the only case of group sex any Swedes have been involved in? Who knows what is going on behind closed doors. Better yet who cares? tallinder/Lilja and Huselius were not charged and should be good to go in Turin.Leo Naphta said:
mattihp
Registered User
SwisshockeyAcademy said:
I may be naive, but I don't think gang-bangs with a half-conscious girl are that common among players representing their country. It is possible that it has happened before, but that is irrelevant here. Even if it were common, it wouldn't make the action any less morally reprehensible.
Fortunately, not even the morons running the swedish hockey federation, are as immoral as considering it ok. If you disagree, that is your problem.
I have not been in a gang bang and never will be. I do not think much of the behavior but who am I to judge? Who are you to judge? I can think of many more morally reprehensible behaviors than sex. A hell of a lot more.Leo Naphta said:
SwisshockeyAcademy said:
The big problem is not what they did it's that they did it while representing their country although i find it reprehensible that three guys weighing in at 600+ pounds "have sex" with a drunk girl (consensual my ***).
Since they are representing my country i have every right to judge them.
Nacho said:Why would I... You think NHLers are that much better...?
um yeah no sh*t. there is a reason they play in NHL and the others in SEL.
SwisshockeyAcademy said:
There are two separate issues here: Morally evaluating the behaviour and evaluating a suitable punishment.
Judging the behaviour to be morally reprehensible is somehting I do in virtue of having a moral reason. Morally evaluating behaviour is something that we do almost all the time. From what you stated, I think it is fair to say that you have found the behaviour morally reprehensible too, albeit perhaps not to the same degree.
Demanding punishment is something I do primarily in virtue of the fact that it was my country they represented. (Which is, I take it, roughly what the Lion stated too)
By the way, it is nice to see that Matti and the Lion seem to have the same opinion. I thought I was the only hardliner in this case over at the Swedish board.
Leo Naphta said:
I think they got a lot of punishment by the media who hang them out and dry even though it never went to court. It's also soon 1.5 years ago. They all want to play in olympics. Would I want to see huselius and Tallinder on the team if our chances of winning increased? Hell yes.
Epsilon
#basta
Leo Naphta said:
Suspending players from the team for "immorality" is the disgraceful thing. Whose job is it to determine that? Would you support them suspending a player from the national team because he is gay?
Epsilon said:
Oh yeah? And I guess it is your job to determine that it is disgraceful to suspend players.
Noone has a "job" of determining which behaviour is disgraceful, but the people in charge of the federation has a responsibility for punishing players that cross the line and do behave disgracefully. I would however venture to say that most people do think this behaviour is disgraceful, and they do it because it as a matter of fact is disgraceful behaviour.
If you, on the contrary, think their behaviour is ok and / or comparable to being homosexual, that's your very big problem.
Epsilon
#basta
Leo Naphta said:
It's only disgraceful if you have a totally uptight attitude towards things like alcohol and sex.
Absolutely not. But there are people who think being gay is "immoral" and a gay athlete being on a national team is "disgraceful". Should those people have their biases placated?
Firstly, I don't think none of these suspended players are good enough to ever play in the olympics unless we're really thin on the depthside. Secondly, although they didn't break any laws their behaviour was disgraceful and they destroyed a lot for "Tre kronor". You don't go out to drink the night before a game, there should be no alcohol during a stay that "Tre kronor" is paying for. You shouldn't bring home any girls to the hotel when you are playing. This girl was totally wasted and maybe she did want to have sex with them, who knows but 3 guys on a half conscious girl is not natural sex from my point of view. Thirdly, one or two of them also has wives and kids. They should at least stay away from this behaviour for their familys sake. Maybe media was a bit harsh on them but come on, you have to take responsibility for your actions. If these players think it's more important to drink and have sex than play for "Tre kronor" they can stay out for good. I don't want these kind of players on my national team...
Epsilon said:
Well, people that think that having a gay on a national team is "disgraceful" is wrong. That's the difference.
Look, I am not saying that what they did was wrong because most people agree that it was disgraceful. It was wrong for other reasons, but I don't have the time or the energy to argue for that position. I do however think that it is relatively uncontroversial, even here, that it was deeply immoral, whether we describe it as "disgraceful" or not, and whether or nor we think they should be punished. Based on that assumption, I argue that they should be punished.
Hence, I don't think the "gay-example" is a good comparison.
I ask you as I have before. If Markus Naslund was involved instead of Huselius would the cry be as loud?reaper said:
SwisshockeyAcademy said:
You are confusing two things.
Would it have been the same outrage? Probably worse since Näslund is more famous. It is possible that the punishment would have been worse due to a bigger outrage, but it could have been less due to the fact that losing Näslund would hurt more. We will never know.
Should Näslund have faced the same punhishment? Yes. And that is what matters.
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