KHL and the World Cup (Mod warning post 355)

[xxxx]

The problem with the World Cup is that it's an invitational tournament organized by a professional sports league, as opposed to an international body.

The problem? I don't see players having any problem with this. It's just some people like you. And, nothing wrong with NHL helding it. But I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

I simply think that the NHL is a legitimate organization that is more than capable to organize such an event, more than IIHF iny my opinion, considering all the stuff it's necessary to provide. If somebody wants NHL ice, rules and referees, well, he can very well say goodbye to those things if IIHF is to be organize any international tournament.

Is IIHF capable of providing the NHL ice? They would want many of those referees that are every yer at the WHC - you want that? I don't.

The NHL, both as a league and organization, is simply stronger than IIHF, like it or not. And I would say it's also IIHF's fault, why don't they organize their own World Cup? I think they have no interest in it. They are probably fine with WHC and olympics. Which is something that I disagree with, because there should be a tournament played on NHL ice, it's laughable to play the best-on-best international tournament on big ice, when the majority of participating players play the best league on NHL ice.

So, why is IIHF not active to make their WC? First, they have no interest, second, they are not as strong as NHL, and they are not capable of doing it. How would they arrange all the games in NHL cities? They would definitely need to cooperate with NHLPA and NHL to make such an event. I somehow think, that IIHF can't do that. When there is a negotiating about whether the players will or will not participate at olympics, it's pretty easy to see that IIHF is not the strongest man in the field - which in soccer, btw, would FIFA definitely be.

 

[xxxx]

Looks like an announcement is coming soon.

ALthough probably not to the likings the European detractors here.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=453994



http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/toronto-to-host-2016-world-cup-of-hockey/




I hope they aren't just ignoring the KHL, otherwise a September tournament would be a disaster in terms of PR.

Still something is better than nothing, but it will mean nothing, like in 2004, if this tournament doesn't get some consistency.

I see a good sign that it won't be just one tournament, but a regular cycle. Good to see that other cities around the world might hosting the event in the future. Good for Europeans

 

[habsrule4eva3089]

Anything that puts International Hockey with the best players in the World on the SURFACE Hockey is MEANT to be PLAYED on is terrific. Finally no big ice, exciting, attacking Hockey after the worst Olympics of all time, will be glad to see what Hockey can show at it's highest level.

 

[Xokkeu]

I have a feeling they picked Toronto because they know they can sell out all the games and make a boat load of money on it. Since the tournament has been abused and neglected by the NHL for so long they probably want a safe return with a guaranteed profitability and local fan support. After that they can probably consider moving it abroad or not, but that might all just be lip service.

I'm still concerned how they get non NHL players involved, because if they don't it's basically even worse than the World Championships. Being a preseason NHL exhibition tournament with god only knows who playing as the bottom defensive pairing for a team like Russia or slovakia.

 

[roto]

Looks like an announcement is coming soon.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=453994

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/toronto-to-host-2016-world-cup-of-hockey/

I wouldn't hold my breath when waiting for this tournament. They have been talking about next World Cup at least for 8 years now. For some reason this moving target is always ~2 years away. No legitimate competition can be arranged like that, but I guess we agree on that.

 

[Lollipop]

So Canada cup will be held in Canada with Canadian refs. What else? In september??? Ha ha ha ha. Who want to participate at all?

This true BS from NHL and even funnier is it when all arrogant Canadian fans defend this crap.

 

[xxxx]

So Canada cup will be held in Canada with Canadian refs. What else? In september??? Ha ha ha ha. Who want to participate at all?

This true BS from NHL and even funnier is it when all arrogant Canadian fans defend this crap.

Just the best players in the world, ha ha. Get some sleep.

 

[jekoh]

The problem? I don't see players having any problem with this. It's just some people like you. And, nothing wrong with NHL helding it. But I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Yes it's wrong that the NHL holds it and most people in Europe share that opinion. Whether you agree or not makes no difference I'll give you that.

I simply think that the NHL is a legitimate organization that is more than capable to organize such an event, more than IIHF iny my opinion,

It's not an international body and, as such, has no legitimacy to organize international competitions.

considering all the stuff it's necessary to provide. If somebody wants NHL ice, rules and referees, well, he can very well say goodbye to those things if IIHF is to be organize any international tournament. Is IIHF capable of providing the NHL ice?

Why would a tournament need to be played with NHL ice and rules though?
International tournaments should be played on international ice with an internationally agreed upon rulebook.

 

[kp61c]

The problem with the World Cup is that it's an invitational tournament organized by a professional sports league, as opposed to an international body.

with all the catering to the needs of na teams that you can imagine. it's mind-blowing how the problem here boils down to some travelling. is it a deliberate thing or simple stupidity? i don't know

 

[Urbanskog]

I hope that the European federations turn down the invitations, let USA and Canada play together.

Maybe invite Colombia and Mexico as well if you're feeling lonely.

 

[Lollipop]

Just the best players in the world, ha ha. Get some sleep.

Really? If it will be played in September then the best players will be out.

Also all this complaining about NHL players being hurt in WHC and olympic which should made them not to participate. Now NHL put their own tournament during the training camps only a few week away from the NHL premiere in early October. What about injured players in World cup that can hurt the team's chances?

 

[Kalzu]

Why would a tournament need to be played with NHL ice and rules though?
International tournaments should be played on international ice with an internationally agreed upon rulebook.

I think it's cool to have an international tournament with the NHL rules. It differentiates the WC from the Olympics. Like in tennis, the Australian Open has been somewhat inferior to the US Open because both are played on hard courts. The US Open has historically been more important and the Australian Open has been seen the the 2nd hardcourt slam. The French Open is more equal with the US Open because it's played on clay so it requires different skills you can't show by winning the US Open.

 

[daver]

Yes it's wrong that the NHL holds it and most people in Europe share that opinion. Whether you agree or not makes no difference I'll give you that.

It's not an international body and, as such, has no legitimacy to organize international competitions.

Why would a tournament need to be played with NHL ice and rules though?
International tournaments should be played on international ice with an internationally agreed upon rulebook.

You appear to arguing on principle only. What are your legitimate concerns about the NHL organizing the World Cup?

NHL Ice size and rules? Makes sense to have it on the surface and to play by the rules that the majority of players (and the vast majority of the elite ones) play on and by does it not.

NHL refs? Already call the most important games at the Olympics with no issues at all of bias, and more importantly, there are much better quality than WC refs.

Location? If it is planned to be held every four years, then attempting to alternate between Europe and NA makes sense if it makes financial sense, which probably is a big if.

 

[kp61c]

I think it's cool to have an international tournament with the NHL rules. It differentiates the WC from the Olympics. Like in tennis, the Australian Open has been somewhat inferior to the US Open because both are played on hard courts. The US Open has historically been more important and the Australian Open has been seen the the 2nd hardcourt slam. The French Open is more equal with the US Open because it's played on clay so it requires different skills you can't show by winning the US Open.

you mean "hey, i play all year long on grass you play on clay so come to me we'll decide who is the best player on grass". cool? i'd call it stupid

 

[Kalzu]

you mean "hey, i play all year long on grass you play on clay so come to me we'll decide who is the best player on grass". cool? i'd call it stupid

Just like those grasscourters must play the French Open on clay, small-ice NHL players must play the Olympics big ice.

My ideal would be the Olympics on big ice and the WC on small ice.

 

[kp61c]

Just like those grasscourters must play the French Open on clay, small-ice NHL players must play the Olympics big ice.

My ideal would be the Olympics on big ice and the WC on small ice.

just like you play all year long ONLY ON big-ice and then suddenly you are forced to play some meaningless two-week tournament for american crowd on small ice?

 

[Jablkon]

What about we break down hockey world in three, not two, groups. North America, Western Europe (headlined by Sweden, Finland, Germany, Switzerland) and Eastern Europe (Czech Rep., Slovakia, Russia, Belarus).

Host one in North America, One in Western Europe, one in Eastern Europe. Preferrably in two or three cities.

How did you the key to divide it like that? CZ is definitely central Europe, closer to Germany than Finland is.....

 

[jekoh]

You appear to arguing on principle only. What are your legitimate concerns about the NHL organizing the World Cup?

Legitimacy is mostly about principle, yes. Not sure why you think principles are not a valid concern.

As for the consquences of not having an international body govern the tournament, I think they have been discussed at length in this thread, from biased refereeing to revenue sharing or lack thereof, not to mention tournament location, rules and various other issues.

NHL Ice size and rules? Makes sense to have it on the surface and to play by the rules that the majority of players (and the vast majority of the elite ones) play on and by does it not.

Tournament rules should not depend on where the players decide to play their club hockey.

Location? If it is planned to be held every four years, then attempting to alternate between Europe and NA makes sense if it makes financial sense, which probably is a big if.

Bending the rules so you can make "financial sense" undermines the tournament's legitimacy. It's mind-boggling that many NA fail to see that.

 

[jekoh]

Just like those grasscourters must play the French Open on clay, small-ice NHL players must play the Olympics big ice.

My ideal would be the Olympics on big ice and the WC on small ice.

Ideally there would not be two rulebooks and two ice-sizes.

While there is a point to having various terrains in tennis or cycling, it serves no purpose whatsoever in the hockey. It's only there because a couple of leagues are too stubborn to join the international community.

 

[Rekin]

If the NHL players will participate in 2018 I have no problem with the NHL World Cup 2016, however it does not benefit international hockey in any kind of way and there's no reason why IIHF (or the Russians) should play ball unless NHL has something to offer in turn. So it should be either both or neither, take it or leave it.

 

[Jablkon]

I would like to know what is the problem for some people. I get the point that it could be - and ideally should be - played once in Europe, once in NA. But is the tournament irrelevant because it would be played in Canada again? That's absurd. As well as the reason that it is going to be held by the NHL. The only thing I see that could be argued, mainly by fans, is the place where it's played. But there is nothing unfair, biased, or doing harm to any european teams in any way if playing in Canada. NHL referees? Come on, they are simply better than the ones we see at the WHC every year. Nationality simple doesn't matter, just look at Sweden-Canada olympic final or ask Jagr. NHL ice? 70-80% of the players participating at the tournament play on that ice every year 82 games at least. It would be rather a disadvantage for those 75% of participating players who would have to adjust on big ice. Advantage to Canada because of home ice? Yes. Of course it would play a big role in our potential victory. The great players and great overall team would have nothing to do with it. What did I forget?

For me it is not special "brand" and status is still questionable. And I actually miss the purpose from fan base. For NHL - it means income because it is aside from IIHF and CAN or US hockey federations. But for fans - ok there could be advantage for some fans in smaller ice which they can consider more attractive. But other way? So we will have best on best on big ice, then on smaller ice? Let's don't forget that we are talking basically about same top players from each state who we will see every second year. I do not know if it it is not too much.....

 

[xxxx]

just like you play all year long ONLY ON big-ice and then suddenly you are forced to play some meaningless two-week tournament for american crowd on small ice?

30 % of the players would come from Europe, 70% (at least) from the NHL. What is more logical, to let those 30% adapt to NHL ice where all the best players play, or to let those 70% adapt to european ice where no elite players actually play?

I think some of you just don't get the fact that the NHL is clearly the best league in the world with best players in the world, and it's not even close, and they have a right to organize WC on NHL ice. I want you to explain to me, why European ice is better for those players that play 82 games per year on NHL ice. It's not a disadvantage for them? You completely ignore that.

 

[Theokritos]

Ideally there would not be two rulebooks and two ice-sizes.

Yes, but as long as there are two books and two sizes it is also fair to use both of each alternatingly in international competition. I'm glad the IIHF allows NHL sized rinks now (2005 World Championship, 2010 Olympics).

 

[kp61c]

30 % of the players would come from Europe, 70% (at least) from the NHL. What is more logical, to let those 30% adapt to NHL ice where all the best players play, or to let those 70% adapt to european ice where no elite players actually play?

the problem with ice is all of your own making, i don't see why russia must adapt to your rules and ice rinks at all. it's an absurd claim

I think some of you just don't get the fact that the NHL is clearly the best league in the world with best players in the world, and it's not even close, and they have a right to organize WC on NHL ice. I want you to explain to me, why European ice is better for those players that play 82 games per year on NHL ice. It's not a disadvantage for them? You completely ignore that.

of course the nhl is the best league, but it has no right to organise it whatsoever. russia has not enough nhlers to make a team? we must look across the ocean and ask something from the khl. that's too bad, but you can always poke into the ahl and some junior leagues, there are enough russuan players there. then you'll have a true nhl tournament governed by nhl that caters to na teams and entertains american crowd

 

[xxxx]

the problem with ice is all of your own making, i don't see why russia must adapt to your rules and ice rinks at all. it's an absurd claim

Doesn't have to. Just bring your ice from Russia, convince some stadium owners and make the ice - for example in Montreal - wider, so you, and other european teams, can play your games on big ice. When Canada or USA meets Russia or other european country, our half of ice will be NHL-sized, your half will be european-sized Let's make it happen.