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Kevyn Adams - New GM

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jc17 said:
Dudley might have been nice but we dont have to canonize everyone who may come to Buffalo. People did it with Babcock, and even botterill before he got here, along with other prospective GMs. Now its Dudley and that Vancouver scout.

I guess its fun to think there's someone out there who will be savior of the franchise and all we have to do is hire them and let them make perfect decision after perfect decision, but we know thats not how it works.
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How does it work? Hiring the best and most experienced people in an organization that sucked for 10 years seems like a good solution. Dudley seemed to fit in many ways, or this guy from Vancouver. We have another inexperienced GM? So find for him an experienced adviser or mentor who knows this business far and wide, has huge connections, has vast experience. Moreover, Pegula's and Adams apparently want to build what Dudley helped to do in Carolina over the past couple of years, just such a model of the club, well, and as a bonus, Dudley love Buffalo. Well, or why do we need a guy from Vancouver, because our general draft picks were on average terrible, of course, if this is not first or second choice (but Reinhart...), of course I would like us to have a guy like Brackett, because Vancouver picks in recent years, including his merit, Pettersson, Horvat, Boeser, Demko, Hughes.
 
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Cheese Breadman said:
Carolina both went to the playoffs just when Dudley was there, and Buffalo is still not there. The point is not only in video intelligence, there is a hybrid system, we just have an inexperienced GM once again and crazy owners, a guy like Dudley would be very useful, because he changed teams so many times it doesn’t mean that it didn’t work, it was like I understand for completely different reasons. Ok, even if not Dudley, they need to find experienced people, and not go in arguably the most crucial season with Adams alone.
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Carolina going to the playoffs has zero to do with Dudley. The guy did mostly amateur scouting (AHL and below. He was pretty well known amongst a lot of the amateurs showcases). Any of his contributions will be shown in years to come.

All I know is that when he was in Montreal, there was a lot of frustrations with him. The guy has a VERY bold personality (a little off the rocker). The guy has a history of straight up destroying crap.

It just seems extremely odd to me that another contract expiration with Dudley, and another not being renewed. The Carolina situation was perfect for him because of his tight bond with Waddell. He isn't going to find a better situation out there, so why is it ending?

I want Adams to build a team that he is 100% comfortable with. Pushing a 71 year old that has a history of past relationship issues on Adams, is exactly what this team is trying to avoid. Let Adams and Krueger (who seem to be fond of each other), build a team that will fit together like a puzzle.
 
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BloFan4Life said:
Carolina going to the playoffs has zero to do with Dudley. The guy did mostly amateur scouting (AHL and below. He was pretty well known amongst a lot of the amateurs showcases). Any of his contributions will be shown in years to come.

All I know is that when he was in Montreal, there was a lot of frustrations with him. The guy has a VERY bold personality (a little off the rocker). The guy has a history of straight up destroying crap.

It just seems extremely odd to me that another contract expiration with Dudley, and another not being renewed. The Carolina situation was perfect for him because of his tight bond with Waddell. He isn't going to find a better situation out there, so why is it ending?

I want Adams to build a team that he is 100% comfortable with. Pushing a 71 year old that has a history of past relationship issues on Adams, is exactly what this team is trying to avoid. Let Adams and Krueger (who seem to be fond of each other), build a team that will fit together like a puzzle.
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Actually, no, Waddell constantly consulted with Dudley and the analytical department about trades and signing players, at least I definitely saw this information in some article.

Are you so sure of Adams and Krueger? Because I don't no.
 
Cheese Breadman said:
How does it work? Hiring the best and most experienced people in an organization that sucked for 10 years seems like a good solution. Dudley seemed to fit in many ways, or this guy from Vancouver. We have another inexperienced GM? So find for him an experienced adviser or mentor who knows this business far and wide, has huge connections, has vast experience. Moreover, Pegula's and Adams apparently want to build what Dudley helped to do in Carolina over the past couple of years, just such a model of the club, well, and as a bonus, Dudley love Buffalo. Well, or why do we need a guy from Vancouver, because our general draft picks were on average terrible, of course, if this is not first or second choice (but Reinhart...), of course I would like us to have a guy like Brackett, because Vancouver picks in recent years, including his merit, Pettersson, Horvat, Boeser, Demko, Hughes.
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I just think whether its managerial roles, scouting, etc, it's really difficult to evaluate as an outsider.

Read any, old thread on prospective GM hire's, for any team not just Buffalo, and it's easy to tell that people really don't have a great idea of how they will perform. You have people getting enraged over the idea of guys that turn out ok, and you have people so excited about guys that flop. Now take a scout or a "consultant" and its that much harder. Sure you can see scouting history but there's even debate on which of those guys were his picks, even though he has the autonomy label.

So while Judd or Dud might be able to add something to this franchise, I find it hard to feel such a strong conviction to either one.
 
jc17 said:
I just think whether its managerial roles, scouting, etc, it's really difficult to evaluate as an outsider.

Read any, old thread on prospective GM hire's, for any team not just Buffalo, and it's easy to tell that people really don't have a great idea of how they will perform. You have people getting enraged over the idea of guys that turn out ok, and you have people so excited about guys that flop. Now take a scout or a "consultant" and its that much harder. Sure you can see scouting history but there's even debate on which of those guys were his picks, even though he has the autonomy label.

So while Judd or Dud might be able to add something to this franchise, I find it hard to feel such a strong conviction to either one.
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I didn't understand anything, but oh well :laugh:
 
Cheese Breadman said:
Actually, no, Waddell constantly consulted with Dudley and the analytical department about trades and signing players, at least I definitely saw this information in some article.

Are you so sure of Adams and Krueger? Because I don't no.
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I'm sure Dudley was consulted, but GMs do all the leg work on player movement. Dudley spent very little time actually in Carolina. He did most of his work not watching pro players and video scouting for the draft.
 
BloFan4Life said:
I'm sure Dudley was consulted, but GMs do all the leg work on player movement. Dudley spent very little time actually in Carolina. He did most of his work not watching pro players and video scouting for the draft.
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Yes, but before that they are asking for a report from Dudley for all of these players. I’m not saying that he is the Lord God and they simply had to sign it, but I’m worried about the situation where we have another newcomer to GM and one of the potential candidates such as Dudley, who seems to fit on paper perfectly, will not come to the organization.
 
Cheese Breadman said:
Yes, but before that they are asking for a report from Dudley for all of these players. I’m not saying that he is the Lord God and they simply had to sign it, but I’m worried about the situation where we have another newcomer to GM and one of the potential candidates such as Dudley, who seems to fit on paper perfectly, will not come to the organization.
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I don't think he fits perfectly on paper at all. I personally think it will be another case of adding water to oil. Let Kevyn and Krueger find personalities that work with them. From what I see in Adams and Krueger, Dudley seems to be the opposite. He reminds me of why Babcock didn't work.

Excerpt about Dudley in relationship to my last point:

In a lot of ways, this is a leap of faith because of his old pal, Waddell. He’s a super-scout that would much rather scour hockey rinks for talent than conduct the day-to-day operations that a GM has to deal with.

Waddell knows this.

“I’ve been very lucky in my life,” Dudley said. “I’ve done virtually everything there is to do in the game, so whatever Donny thinks he needs from me, that’s what I’m going to do. A lot of people in the world don’t get me. Donny does. He always has. He understands what my strengths are and understands what’s not my strengths.

“As you know, I’m an intense guy.”
This is a guy who once beat up a coke machine, so to speak, during a prospect tournament game in Hull, Quebec.
Asked what he will do every day, Dudley said, “To be honest with you, I don’t know. I have a lot of faith in Donny, so it depends on him. I’ll do whatever he wants me to do.”
Will he be the guy to make trades?
“I’m not the guy who will be making phone calls, I can tell you,” he said. “That’s the GM’s job. But I would like to think I’ll have a lot of input on said phone calls. I’m pretty sure I will.”
Dudley will remain living in Lewiston, N.Y., and will commute to Raleigh for periods of time.


Much-traveled NHL exec Rick Dudley comes full circle in...

 
BloFan4Life said:
I don't think he fits perfectly on paper at all. I personally think it will be another case of adding water to oil. Let Kevyn and Krueger find personalities that work with them. From what I see in Adams and Krueger, Dudley seems to be the opposite. He reminds me of why Babcock didn't work.

Excerpt about Dudley in relationship to my last point:

In a lot of ways, this is a leap of faith because of his old pal, Waddell. He’s a super-scout that would much rather scour hockey rinks for talent than conduct the day-to-day operations that a GM has to deal with.

Waddell knows this.

“I’ve been very lucky in my life,” Dudley said. “I’ve done virtually everything there is to do in the game, so whatever Donny thinks he needs from me, that’s what I’m going to do. A lot of people in the world don’t get me. Donny does. He always has. He understands what my strengths are and understands what’s not my strengths.

“As you know, I’m an intense guy.”
This is a guy who once beat up a coke machine, so to speak, during a prospect tournament game in Hull, Quebec.
Asked what he will do every day, Dudley said, “To be honest with you, I don’t know. I have a lot of faith in Donny, so it depends on him. I’ll do whatever he wants me to do.”
Will he be the guy to make trades?
“I’m not the guy who will be making phone calls, I can tell you,” he said. “That’s the GM’s job. But I would like to think I’ll have a lot of input on said phone calls. I’m pretty sure I will.”
Dudley will remain living in Lewiston, N.Y., and will commute to Raleigh for periods of time.


Much-traveled NHL exec Rick Dudley comes full circle in...
Click to expand...
So what's the problem? We are not considering him for the role of GM. Krueger can be an ordinary charlatan who speaks beautifully, and we are ready to give him all the threads of the organization. Adams seems like a good guy, but whether he can be a good GM is not yet known.
 
Cheese Breadman said:
So what's the problem? We are not considering him for the role of GM. Krueger can be an ordinary charlatan who speaks beautifully, and we are ready to give him all the threads of the organization. Adams seems like a good guy, but whether he can be a good GM is not yet known.
Click to expand...

Now I'm confused.

In one breathe you are telling me that he played a role in the success of Carolina so I attach the article saying that he did more amateur work and his results are TBD.

My point was that we don't need his personality in this organization. In this article, it was a lot about him working with Waddell because their personalities mesh. Him not being the GM will be an issue if his personality wouldn't mesh with the current GM and Coach (which I don't think they would mesh).

Just because a guy has experience doesn't mean it necessary will work (Babcock as an example). I can absolutely see why the Sabres would not bring in Dudley and I don't think they should be criticized for that.
 
BloFan4Life said:
Now I'm confused.

In one breathe you are telling me that he played a role in the success of Carolina so I attach the article saying that he did more amateur work and his results are TBD.

My point was that we don't need his personality in this organization. In this article, it was a lot about him working with Waddell because their personalities mesh. Him not being the GM will be an issue if his personality wouldn't mesh with the current GM and Coach (which I don't think they would mesh).

Just because a guy has experience doesn't mean it necessary will work (Babcock as an example). I can absolutely see why the Sabres would not bring in Dudley and I don't think they should be criticized for that.
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Babcock in Toronto DID work, it just didn't work for a long time.
 
The bottom line is they are in desperate need of an experienced hockey guy to support Adams and help navigate the draft. If Dudley doesn’t fit, Mike Futa is sitting right there and has tweeted he would be interested in joining the organization. The guy has helped build two Cup winners in L.A. And helped build one of the top prospect pools with the Kings.
 
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BloFan4Life said:
Now I'm confused.

In one breathe you are telling me that he played a role in the success of Carolina so I attach the article saying that he did more amateur work and his results are TBD.

My point was that we don't need his personality in this organization. In this article, it was a lot about him working with Waddell because their personalities mesh. Him not being the GM will be an issue if his personality wouldn't mesh with the current GM and Coach (which I don't think they would mesh).

Just because a guy has experience doesn't mean it necessary will work (Babcock as an example). I can absolutely see why the Sabres would not bring in Dudley and I don't think they should be criticized for that.
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I don’t agree, we needed a big fish like Dudley.
 
jc17 said:
I just think whether its managerial roles, scouting, etc, it's really difficult to evaluate as an outsider.

Read any, old thread on prospective GM hire's, for any team not just Buffalo, and it's easy to tell that people really don't have a great idea of how they will perform. You have people getting enraged over the idea of guys that turn out ok, and you have people so excited about guys that flop. Now take a scout or a "consultant" and its that much harder. Sure you can see scouting history but there's even debate on which of those guys were his picks, even though he has the autonomy label.

So while Judd or Dud might be able to add something to this franchise, I find it hard to feel such a strong conviction to either one.
Click to expand...

There's a difference between making smart moves that don't work and making head scratching moves.

What we've done over the past decade is kind of head-scratching: we've promoted from within when the "within" was never very good in the first place. We have also made some outside hires with sketchy (at best) resumes. I'm not even talking about the GM (who I think is only as good as his supporting cast), there's a long list of people on this forum that questioned the hires of Sexton, Greeley, and Jankowski when they were first hired, and those concerns appear to be very valid now.

Currently, we have a very inexperienced staff so all anyway can basically say is: "well, I hope this works :dunno:". I'm not putting Dudley up on some pedestal, but he would have been a very smart hire, and according to Wawrow he was interested.

Quite the contrast from what they're doing with the Bills, where national reporters were praising Beane's hires and referring to it as an 'all-star front office' right from the start.
 
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Fezzy126 said:
There's a difference between making smart moves that don't work and making head scratching moves.

What we've done over the past decade is kind of head-scratching: we've promoted from within when the "within" was never very good in the first place. We have also made some outside hires with sketchy (at best) resumes. I'm not even talking about the GM (who I think is only as good as his supporting cast), there's a long list of people on this forum that questioned the hires of Sexton, Greeley, and Jankowski when they were first hired, and those concerns appear to be very valid now.

Currently, we have a very inexperienced staff so all anyway can basically say is: "well, I hope this works :dunno:". I'm not putting Dudley up on some pedestal, but he would have been a very smart hire, and according to Wawrow he was interested.

Quite the contrast from what they're doing with the Bills, where national reporters were praising Beane's hires and referring to it as an 'all-star front office' right from the start.
Click to expand...

You realize that Beane didn't hire one Dudley like figure. He hired younger, hungry guys that have GM aspirations. He mostly promoted guys from other teams.

Guys I'm referring to:
Joe Schoen
Malik Boyd
Terrence Gray
Dan Morgan
Lake Dawson
Brain Gaine (When he was originally hired)

Beane sought these guys out because they had similar beliefs as him.

Let's see what Adams does and let him meet with various candidates.
 
"Cant wait to hire some more first timers who barely have any experience in NHL roles they are being cast for"

- Echoes on this forum in summary.

Same old song, same old dance but it's new right so maybe!?!? Right? Pegula's been trashing this organization micro managing for too long and now they have full input on hiring only yes men.

I don't need to be a prophet to see where this is going.
 
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It is unfortunate that Brackett was past us, it was obvious that for a long time he would not sit without work.
 
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