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Kevyn Adams GM thread

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Tatanka said:
John Mayer knows who Eric Clapton and Jimmy Page are. He would take their calls as would Benny Messier's
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Music and sports are two completely different things.

Not too long ago, every C prospect in the draft said they wanted to be like Toews. I bet Toews isn't top of mind for guys in this year's draft.

Things turn over quickly. I just don't see Messier or any other former NHLer in his 60s having a ton of pull with kids these days.

The most you get today is long term relationships developing between franchise legends and current players. Like Jim Kelly and Josh Allen.

But, Brandon Beane isn't having Thurman and Kelly calling FAs to try and get them to come to Buffalo.

toddkaz said:
Is that the biggest thing Messier brings? He also brings respect around the league, connections to other people and organizations along with stability. Having someone like Mark Messier instantly changes the reputation of the franchise.

I am not saying Mark Messier even wants the job but bringing in someone of that calibre signals a change for this franchise around the league.

How about Ken Holland as POHO?
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I would love Ken Holland or Brian Burke as POHO who helps groom the next GM if they choose to hire yet another rookie GM.

I just don't see it happening.

And Messier is kind of weird to me given that he doesn't have front office experience and has zero ties to the Sabres.

What would Messier really change? I think most people would view it as just cutting a check for a "name" as opposed to hiring someone with actual FO chops.
 
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Jim Bob said:
Music and sports are two completely different things.

Not too long ago, every C prospect in the draft said they wanted to be like Toews. I bet Toews isn't top of mind for guys in this year's draft.

Things turn over quickly. I just don't see Messier or any other former NHLer in his 60s having a ton of pull with kids these days.

The most you get today is long term relationships developing between franchise legends and current players. Like Jim Kelly and Josh Allen.

But, Brandon Beane isn't having Thurman and Kelly calling FAs to try and get them to come to Buffalo.


I would love Ken Holland or Brian Burke as POHO who helps groom the next GM if they choose to hire yet another rookie GM.

I just don't see it happening.

And Messier is kind of weird to me given that he doesn't have front office experience and has zero ties to the Sabres.

What would Messier really change? I think most people would view it as just cutting a check for a "name" as opposed to hiring someone with actual FO chops.
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Different. But if a POHO named Mark Messier calls they know who he is.
 
Didn't messier admit to not even watching hockey for a while before being hired to his analyst role?

I think doing something like that would make this team look like even more of a joke, unless the active player agents are all kind of dumb. I just don't see a figurehead moving the needle
 
I think players might be more likely to waive NMC/NTC when they see an experienced and well-known leader than Messier.
 
Fjordsen said:
I think players might be more likely to waive NMC/NTC when they see an experienced and well-known leader than Messier.
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I don't see how a 60+ year old HOFer with zero FO experience moves the needle and gets players to overlook the long history of incompetence in Buffalo.

If the Sabres hire a HOF player with an NHL FO resume (like Yzerman or Sakic), that likely helps.

But, a HOF talking head, not so much.
 
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I'll take any of these guys as replacements for Kevyn:

Mathieu Darche
Stacy Roest
Mark Janko
Rich Peverley
Evan Gold
Scott Bradley

You could probably spot the pattern of what I want, and anybody that fits said pattern.
 
OkimLom said:
I'll take any of these guys as replacements for Kevyn:

Mathieu Darche
Stacy Roest
Mark Janko
Rich Peverley
Evan Gold
Scott Bradley

You could probably spot the pattern of what I want, and anybody that fits said pattern.
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Janko and Gold are on my list, I don't know much about the rest. Although no, I have heard about Bradley.
 
Jim Bob said:
I don't see how a 60+ year old HOFer with zero FO experience moves the needle and gets players to overlook the long history of incompetence in Buffalo.

If the Sabres hire a HOF player with an NHL FO resume (like Yzerman or Sakic), that likely helps.

But, a HOF talking head, not so much.
Click to expand...

Maybe... what they can do (granted this is fantasy land)... is hire the experienced and empowered POHO (lets say Holland as an example) to revamp the organization, restructure, cleanse, and add cred to.... But also hire a former player to have a "VP" role or something similar. Not to make trades and negotiate contracts, but to learn and also add a good face. I was never a huge fan of his, but Ryan Miller would be perfect for that.

Ken Holland, with Ryan Miller shaking hands, kissing babies with the NHLPA and fans.

Then Holland hires the best possible GM (likely an up and comer in this scenario), builds the scouting/analytics depts out, builds hockey science dept, looks at every detail with how players are dealt with (clubhouse/equipment, travel, families, etc). Holland and GM build an actual competitive NHL franchise with Miller learning, possibly the most public face of it. It would vault Miller into taking over as POHO once everything is sustainable.
 
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May Day 10 said:
Maybe... what they can do (granted this is fantasy land)... is hire the experienced and empowered POHO (lets say Holland as an example) to revamp the organization, restructure, cleanse, and add cred to.... But also hire a former player to have a "VP" role or something similar. Not to make trades and negotiate contracts, but to learn and also add a good face. I was never a huge fan of his, but Ryan Miller would be perfect for that.

Ken Holland, with Ryan Miller shaking hands, kissing babies with the NHLPA and fans.

Then Holland hires the best possible GM (likely an up and comer in this scenario), builds the scouting/analytics depts out, builds hockey science dept, looks at every detail with how players are dealt with (clubhouse/equipment, travel, families, etc). Holland and GM build an actual competitive NHL franchise with Miller learning, possibly the most public face of it. It would vault Miller into taking over as POHO once everything is sustainable.
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I'd love to see it.

I don't think Pegula would do that.
 
Fjordsen said:
Janko and Gold are on my list, I don't know much about the rest. Although no, I have heard about Bradley.
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Essentially they are guys that have been in winning organizations for a bit, and in Hockey Operations positions. They have worked under management staffs that have been successful.

In a perfect world for me, with the Pegula factor, I have Bradley become the POHO with GM power and responsibilities, with one of these guys as an understudy to develop into a GM underneath him taking on the tasks of being the GM for Rochester in the beginning.
 
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OkimLom said:
Essentially they are guys that have been in winning organizations for a bit, and in Hockey Operations positions. They have worked under management staffs that have been successful.

In a perfect world for me, with the Pegula factor, I have Bradley become the POHO with GM power and responsibilities, with one of these guys as an understudy to develop into a GM underneath him taking on the tasks of being the GM for Rochester in the beginning.
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Well they could have Bradley as POHO and Gold as GM, both from Boston.

I think there are many different interesting options, if only the owner wanted it, which unfortunately he doesn't have.
 
Fjordsen said:
Well they could have Bradley as POHO and Gold as GM, both from Boston.

I think there are many different interesting options, if only the owner wanted it, which unfortunately he doesn't have.
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That works for me, I'm just not married to any particular guys, just married to the type of guy I would like to see.
 
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Jim Bob said:
Burke is a guy that can balance the business side of things and the hockey side of things and would be a really good POHO, IMO.

For instance, I like how the Flames were positioned way more when he left than when he got there.
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I'm cool with Burke as some sort of "standard bearer" for the organization, that oversees and makes sure the organization staff/management is held to higher standards than where they are now, and we need a guy that will not pull punches with ownership, but I'd rather have someone else that has had a handle on today's players when constructing a roster.

If we can find someone "more modern" to fit that Burke role idea, I'm all ears.
 
OkimLom said:
I'm cool with Burke as some sort of "standard bearer" for the organization, that oversees and makes sure the organization staff/management is held to higher standards than where they are now, and we need a guy that will not pull punches with ownership, but I'd rather have someone else that has had a handle on today's players when constructing a roster.

If we can find someone "more modern" to fit that Burke role idea, I'm all ears.
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The challenge is that the two paths forward that I think they have to take are paths I don't expect Terry Pegula to have any interest in going down.

The two paths I see are:

Path 1: POHO who has NHL GM experience + promising rookie GM

or

Path 2: Veteran GM

Unfortunately, I think Pegula is likely to be patient with Adams because Kevyn is way better at managing the relationship with Terry than he is building a competitive NHL roster.

And if he moves off of Adams, I think the most likely replacement is promoting Karmanos and not changing things nearly as much as I feel they need to be changed.
 
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Jim Bob said:
The challenge is that the two paths forward that I think they have to take are paths I don't expect Terry Pegula to have any interest in going down.

The two paths I see are:

Path 1: POHO who has NHL GM experience + promising rookie GM

or

Path 2: Veteran GM

Unfortunately, I think Pegula is likely to be patient with Adams because Kevyn is way better at managing the relationship with Terry than he is building a competitive NHL roster.

And if he moves off of Adams, I think the most likely replacement is promoting Karmanos and not changing things nearly as much as I feel they need to be changed.
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Sadly, I agree with you, and fear of those being the options Pegula looks into.
 
Jim Bob said:
I don't see how a 60+ year old HOFer with zero FO experience moves the needle and gets players to overlook the long history of incompetence in Buffalo.

If the Sabres hire a HOF player with an NHL FO resume (like Yzerman or Sakic), that likely helps.

But, a HOF talking head, not so much.
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You want to get players to come here? Start winning. That's the only thing that will move the needle.
 
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I don't think some people grasp why hiring a guy like Burke is likely the only way this team ever gets fixed: he commands respect within the league. I will bet you that Kevyn gets calls from other GM's with trade offers not much different from the ones on the trade board because nobody has any respect for him or the Sabres. They aren't going to pull that with someone they respect like Burke.
 
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Jim Bob said:
I don't see how a 60+ year old HOFer with zero FO experience moves the needle and gets players to overlook the long history of incompetence in Buffalo.

If the Sabres hire a HOF player with an NHL FO resume (like Yzerman or Sakic), that likely helps.

But, a HOF talking head, not so much.
Click to expand...
I think you're overestimating the intelligence of NHL players.
 
Jim Bob said:
Music and sports are two completely different things.

Not too long ago, every C prospect in the draft said they wanted to be like Toews. I bet Toews isn't top of mind for guys in this year's draft.

Things turn over quickly. I just don't see Messier or any other former NHLer in his 60s having a ton of pull with kids these days.

The most you get today is long term relationships developing between franchise legends and current players. Like Jim Kelly and Josh Allen.

But, Brandon Beane isn't having Thurman and Kelly calling FAs to try and get them to come to Buffalo.


I would love Ken Holland or Brian Burke as POHO who helps groom the next GM if they choose to hire yet another rookie GM.

I just don't see it happening.

And Messier is kind of weird to me given that he doesn't have front office experience and has zero ties to the Sabres.

What would Messier really change? I think most people would view it as just cutting a check for a "name" as opposed to hiring someone with actual FO chops.
Click to expand...
I agree, Mark Messier is a weird one to name thats why I named Ken Holland in my post.

Mark Messier has no connection to this franchise.

I agree these types of moves will never happen. They tried with Pat Lafontaine and it lasted 5 minutes because all they want is a puppet.
 
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sabremike said:
I don't think some people grasp why hiring a guy like Burke is likely the only way this team ever gets fixed: he commands respect within the league. I will bet you that Kevyn gets calls from other GM's with trade offers not much different from the ones on the trade board because nobody has any respect for him or the Sabres. They aren't going to pull that with someone they respect like Burke.
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I think a guy who has had a decade plus around the league (Karmanos, for example) would at least carry a *base level* of respect from the boys club that is NHL GMs. But yes, I agree in principle with this.
 
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sabremike said:
I don't think some people grasp why hiring a guy like Burke is likely the only way this team ever gets fixed: he commands respect within the league. I will bet you that Kevyn gets calls from other GM's with trade offers not much different from the ones on the trade board because nobody has any respect for him or the Sabres. They aren't going to pull that with someone they respect like Burke.
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I don't think a lack of respect around the league is the issue.

I think the issue is that Adams doesn't know how to build a winning NHL roster.
 
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