Kevyn Adams GM thread

[sabremike]

I think the root cause of the Eichel issues here and his flourishing in Vegas is that they did not have the right veterans in the room when introducing the Eichel-Reinhart core to the roster.

They needed vets that were both real pros on and off the ice AND were still capable of playing as solid top 3 line/pairing guys and earned the respect of rookies both on the ice and in the room.

And the Sabres still haven't learned those lessons enough as they continue to ice young and inexperienced rosters over and over again.

"Tim, we need to get veteran leadership for these kids"

GMTM: Trades for a guy who literally had his shit tossed into the shower by his teammates because they hated him so much.

 

[Chainshot]

Eichel was, essentially, a model citizen up until Adams was hired.

BULLSHIT. Eichel had thrown fits - including throwing a tantrum directed at off-ice staff in his very first training camp where he threw his food at a chef like a toddler. He was far, far, far from being some model citizen. The reports about new players laughing at and disparaging vets in the dressing room and during practices - that was linked directly to him. He was a petulant loser who lucked out that he wound up on a team full of much higher character talent to carry past his shitty disposition. The comments about how he was no Crosby by someone who had played with both - JS Dea - in the French press in Montreal? The Gionta stuff about how terrible a dude he is to be around and how shitty he is to staff? PHam's, Vogel's, and Bucky's hints at there being issues in the room with young players - even the shit about someone on the team wanting to make sure the Swedes didn't speak Swedish to one another because he thought it was them talking about him?? THAT GUY?? No, he was a shit human even without the cocaine and booze allegations or coming to training camp with a supposed training injury that has been hinted at being from off-ice shenanigans that were commensurate with too much party and not enough preparation. Those sort of things were not rumors, they are out in the public sphere as shit he did. There hasn't been a player they've covered up for this hard since Paul Cyr and his coke problem.

He was off the rails and asked to be traded before showing up at that last training camp hurt. He was already done. Everything you listed after that is just that -- after that.

They had already tried to placate him with the contract he wanted for the length he wanted and in that deal was the captaincy he wanted. He rewarded them by not being prepared to play many nights AND then asking to be traded on top of being such a shitty person behind the scenes. There are reasons why guys like Sid are so well regarded - because he's not a massive douchenozzle to the people around him AND he puts in the work. Jackoff did neither.

 

[Beerz]

Eichel was, essentially, a model citizen up until Adams was hired. There were rumors of off ice issues, but that is pretty typical for a player in their early 20s.

When Adams was hired:

- The owner came out and started talking about being economic
- They fired a ton of the internal staff

Then Adams goes to Eichel and says "we're going to rebuild (again)"

Eichel tells the team to trade him. They then try to fix it by signing Hall and getting Staal (it bombs horribly) and finish dead last. He is injured and they won't let him choose which medical procedure to get.

THAT is where things went off the rails.

When the owners starting thinking about their wallets and not the team in 2020, everyone (including the players) took note. The chain reaction has got us to where we threw away 2 full seasons to get a franchise center, then fumbled the ball so badly once he got here we're now at 14 years without playoffs with very little hope of it getting resolved in the next few years.

This version is just taking Eichels word. We will never get the full story so I don't think this should be presented as fact.

I think it is safe to say both sides have blame in this.

 

[oldgoalie]

BULLSHIT. Eichel had thrown fits - including throwing a tantrum directed at off-ice staff in his very first training camp where he threw his food at a chef like a toddler. He was far, far, far from being some model citizen. The reports about new players laughing at and disparaging vets in the dressing room and during practices - that was linked directly to him. He was a petulant loser who lucked out that he wound up on a team full of much higher character talent to carry past his shitty disposition. The comments about how he was no Crosby by someone who had played with both - JS Dea - in the French press in Montreal? The Gionta stuff about how terrible a dude he is to be around and how shitty he is to staff? PHam's, Vogel's, and Bucky's hints at there being issues in the room with young players - even the shit about someone on the team wanting to make sure the Swedes didn't speak Swedish to one another because he thought it was them talking about him?? THAT GUY?? No, he was a shit human even without the cocaine and booze allegations or coming to training camp with a supposed training injury that has been hinted at being from off-ice shenanigans that were commensurate with too much party and not enough preparation. Those sort of things were not rumors, they are out in the public sphere as shit he did. There hasn't been a player they've covered up for this hard since Paul Cyr and his coke problem.

He was off the rails and asked to be traded before showing up at that last training camp hurt. He was already done. Everything you listed after that is just that -- after that.

They had already tried to placate him with the contract he wanted for the length he wanted and in that deal was the captaincy he wanted. He rewarded them by not being prepared to play many nights AND then asking to be traded on top of being such a shitty person behind the scenes. There are reasons why guys like Sid are so well regarded - because he's not a massive douchenozzle to the people around him AND he puts in the work. Jackoff did neither.

As someone with a family member that worked in Eichel's home, and had to deal with him in some social interactions, I can absolutely confirm that he's an entitled, insufferable, shitty human being.

 

[Jim Bob]

As someone with a family member that worked in Eichel's home, and had to deal with him in some social interactions, I can absolutely confirm that he's an entitled, insufferable, shitty human being.

On the plus side, he is a stick curve geek.

 

[TehDoak]

BULLSHIT. Eichel had thrown fits - including throwing a tantrum directed at off-ice staff in his very first training camp where he threw his food at a chef like a toddler. He was far, far, far from being some model citizen. The reports about new players laughing at and disparaging vets in the dressing room and during practices - that was linked directly to him. He was a petulant loser who lucked out that he wound up on a team full of much higher character talent to carry past his shitty disposition. The comments about how he was no Crosby by someone who had played with both - JS Dea - in the French press in Montreal? The Gionta stuff about how terrible a dude he is to be around and how shitty he is to staff? PHam's, Vogel's, and Bucky's hints at there being issues in the room with young players - even the shit about someone on the team wanting to make sure the Swedes didn't speak Swedish to one another because he thought it was them talking about him?? THAT GUY?? No, he was a shit human even without the cocaine and booze allegations or coming to training camp with a supposed training injury that has been hinted at being from off-ice shenanigans that were commensurate with too much party and not enough preparation. Those sort of things were not rumors, they are out in the public sphere as shit he did. There hasn't been a player they've covered up for this hard since Paul Cyr and his coke problem.

He was off the rails and asked to be traded before showing up at that last training camp hurt. He was already done. Everything you listed after that is just that -- after that.

They had already tried to placate him with the contract he wanted for the length he wanted and in that deal was the captaincy he wanted. He rewarded them by not being prepared to play many nights AND then asking to be traded on top of being such a shitty person behind the scenes. There are reasons why guys like Sid are so well regarded - because he's not a massive douchenozzle to the people around him AND he puts in the work. Jackoff did neither.

As someone with a family member that worked in Eichel's home, and had to deal with him in some social interactions, I can absolutely confirm that he's an entitled, insufferable, shitty human being.

He was a spoiled kid. Most of the hockey players coming in are spoiled kids. To pretend its an exclusive 'Jack Eichel' problem is silly.

We have plenty of problems with the kids we have in our lineup right now. And none of them are jack eichel level talented.

You can't give a 21 year old millions of dollars and expect it to just 'be ok'. You have to surround them with support and off ice examples of how to conduct yourself.

It's on coaches, front office, and the leadership in the room to get him past that. That was the issue with Murray as a GM, he didn't build out any leadership group. They didn't have anyone in the locker room to put Eichel in his place.

he did get lucky he ended up in Vegas, in a different situation, things would have been different. But, circling back to the core issue here, is you need a GM with experience dealing with things like 'spoiled ass 18 year old' in their organization. We haven't had a GM with a lick of experience. And that is the core issue here. The Pegulas keep insisting on trying to figure it out themselves and they keep failing.

 

[Fjordsen]

He was a spoiled kid. Most of the hockey players coming in are spoiled kids. To pretend its an exclusive 'Jack Eichel' problem is silly.

We have plenty of problems with the kids we have in our lineup right now. And none of them are jack eichel level talented.

You can't give a 21 year old millions of dollars and expect it to just 'be ok'. You have to surround them with support and off ice examples of how to conduct yourself.

It's on coaches, front office, and the leadership in the room to get him past that. That was the issue with Murray as a GM, he didn't build out any leadership group. They didn't have anyone in the locker room to put Eichel in his place.

he did get lucky he ended up in Vegas, in a different situation, things would have been different. But, circling back to the core issue here, is you need a GM with experience dealing with things like 'spoiled ass 18 year old' in their organization. We haven't had a GM with a lick of experience. And that is the core issue here. The Pegulas keep insisting on trying to figure it out themselves and they keep failing.

BULLSHIT 2.0

Our current captain has no issues with character or attitude or anything like that and is no less a talented and important player than Eichel.

 

[Sabreality]

Well gravitating towards Evander Kane & Bogo as your best friends on the team, certainly speaks to a character issue, whether young & dumb or not, not every young player does that, sure GMTM was an idiot for bringing in those types, but it still falls on the player.

 

[May Day 10]

Well gravitating towards Evander Kane & Bogo as your best friends on the team, certainly speaks to a character issue, whether young & dumb or not, not every young player does that, sure GMTM was an idiot for bringing in those types, but it still falls on the player.

That was their biggest failure. They had the right idea bringing in Gionta and Gorges (and even OReilly probably)...

But then you get Evander Kane and Bogosian. What is an 18-20 year old millionaire college kid going to gravitate to? The boring older married guys? Or the guys who skip out to take a helicopter to NBA all star games, copious girls, and sniffing powder up their noses to stay up and party?

 

[Dreakon13]

That was their biggest failure. They had the right idea bringing in Gionta and Gorges (and even OReilly probably)...

But then you get Evander Kane and Bogosian. What is an 18-20 year old millionaire college kid going to gravitate to? The boring older married guys? Or the guys who skip out to take a helicopter to NBA all star games, copious girls, and sniffing powder up their noses to stay up and party?

There's being irresponsible and liking to party, and there's being a shitty person to seemingly everyone around you. One is understandable and a failure of management in providing the wrong kinds of role models... the other is just representative of the kind of person he was/is at his core.

 

[oldgoalie]

There's being irresponsible and liking to party, and there's being a shitty person to seemingly everyone around you. One is understandable and a failure of management in providing the wrong kinds of role models... the other is just representative of the kind of person he was/is at his core.

bingo.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

That was their biggest failure. They had the right idea bringing in Gionta and Gorges (and even OReilly probably)...

But then you get Evander Kane and Bogosian. What is an 18-20 year old millionaire college kid going to gravitate to? The boring older married guys? Or the guys who skip out to take a helicopter to NBA all star games, copious girls, and sniffing powder up their noses to stay up and party?

Other than being made out of tissue paper, what was wrong with Bogosian (and aside from not being very good while playing, but maybe that was just us fans having higher expectations of what he was as a player)?

 

[OkimLom]

So back on the topic of Kevyn Adams...How much more modification do we want from Kevyn to perform on this roster?

 

[Beerz]

So back on the topic of Kevyn Adams...How much more modification do we want from Kevyn to perform on this roster?

Sell free agents and that is it.

 

[kirby11]

It rocks that Kevyn presumably had at least some time to see how the Sabres ****ed up with Dahlin in terms of making him drag boat anchor partners around in his teens and early 20s instead of giving him a steady vet who could cover for his mistakes and let him play with more confidence and freedom (a la Tallinder-Myers) and has made the same exact mistakes with Power

 

[My Cozen Dylan]

So back on the topic of Kevyn Adams...How much more modification do we want from Kevyn to perform on this roster?

I want him to do his job until he is no longer employed, mostly because I fully expect him to still be the GM next season.

 

[kirby11]

Other than being made out of tissue paper, what was wrong with Bogosian (and aside from not being very good while playing, but maybe that was just us fans having higher expectations of what he was as a player)?

Even though he was a bit older, it definitely seemed like he was more in the Kane party lifestyle off-ice.

On-ice, from a hockey IQ perspective, he's probably one of the dumbest players the Sabres have ever rostered, and they've had plenty of idiots come through the building. Basically needed a babysitter for a partner even though he was the experienced vet

 

[toddkaz]

This team could make the playoffs next year if Adams just trades picks and prospects. Too bad Adams is a douchebag and wont make the moves.

Its not a bad team. If Adams brings in a RHD for Power and a 1-2C I could see this team making the playoffs.

Adams just isn't capable of making those moves.

 

[TehDoak]

BULLSHIT 2.0

Our current captain has no issues with character or attitude or anything like that and is no less a talented and important player than Eichel.

Different players are different players.

Dahlin is from a completely different culture.

Some players come in the league at 18 and are humble.

Others come in cocky and brash and are disrespectful.

It's not where you start its where you finish.

And the organization needs to know how to deal with both. And they did not do a good job with dealing with Eichel.

Eichel isn't innocent in all of this, of course, but he's shown in Vegas there was a team first, do it all center in there, he just needed good coaching, veteran leadership, and a bit of growing up to bring it out.

The Sabres are a broken organization. Until they fix the core issue as to why (its the Pegulas and how they have handled the front office), it's going to continue to be that.

 

[Fjordsen]

Different players are different players.

Dahlin is from a completely different culture.

Some players come in the league at 18 and are humble.

Others come in cocky and brash and are disrespectful.

It's not where you start its where you finish.

And the organization needs to know how to deal with both. And they did not do a good job with dealing with Eichel.

Eichel isn't innocent in all of this, of course, but he's shown in Vegas there was a team first, do it all center in there, he just needed good coaching, veteran leadership, and a bit of growing up to bring it out.

The Sabres are a broken organization. Until they fix the core issue as to why (its the Pegulas and how they have handled the front office), it's going to continue to be that.

And I think it just depends on the person, either you're a normal guy or you're an asshole, I know such people, and I also played professional sports and had such players on my team.

I'm not saying that Terry built the team correctly, but Eichel is just such a person, maybe now he's matured and got into a different environment, but maybe if he initially had the right attitude and didn't act like an asshole, then the team would have been partly different.

 

[TehDoak]

And I think it just depends on the person, either you're a normal guy or you're an asshole, I know such people, and I also played professional sports and had such players on my team.

I'm not saying that Terry built the team correctly, but Eichel is just such a person, maybe now he's matured and got into a different environment, but maybe if he initially had the right attitude and didn't act like an asshole, then the team would have been partly different.

Every team needs a few assholes.

 

[Zman5778]

Every team needs a few assholes.

Assholes ON THE ICE, yes. Just because someone is an asshole on the ice.....doesn't mean they get to be one off the ice.

 

[Fjordsen]

Every team needs a few assholes.

I think you and I have different ideas about assholes.

Especially if you think your captain should be a jerk who disrespects normal people and sets such an example for the whole team, then I definitely disagree.

 

[May Day 10]

Part of running a pro sports team is dealing with numerous personalities and character types. Need to find balances and weather the storm. How it worked out here is they basically cratered Eichel's worth, and also gave the organization a huge black eye with the NHLPA in the process.
Having Housley, then that galaxy brain Krueger were terrible choices to coach and nurture a young hot shot kid like that too. Just awful.

If they knew who Eichel was, he should have never been given the C. In fact, the team probably should have handed over the C to OReilly and traded Eichel for a ransom after OReilly's clear call for help in April 2018.