Kevyn Adams GM thread

[Matt Ress]

Not yet. Let's see how the defense looks next year, but it could be Granato's Achilles heel.

Granato has been saying for a while that he is focusing first on offense. I have to imagine Adams is on board and won't chop his knees out for it.

Offense is there. Let's see some meatball defense now

 

[Sabre the Win]

Get me a new goaltending coach
Get me a new defensive coach

Let me see the difference before I get rid of Granato.

 

[TehDoak]

I mean the plan has been pretty obvious for a long time. His name is Devon Levi.

You don't put all your chips on 1 goalie who, as of TODAY is at LEAST a year away from being a starter. IF he ever becomes one. That isn't a "plan", that's a lotto ticket.

What happens if he tweaks his knee at the roller disco. What if he becomes addicted to scratch off tickets in Rochester and binges garbage plates to soothe his depression? What if he simply can't adjust to the pro game and players? Plenty of 'can't miss' goalie prospects have missed, and missed badly. If any GM is putting all their plans for a goalie of the future on a single prospect goalie, that is terrible planning

Which I was completely fine with for 1 year. Also UPL getting enough time to see how he would perform.

"So you can't just look at one offseason and say "well who did you want him to get"

Of course you can. People like to say just get a good goalie bro like it's extremely easy or something. Legit good goaltenders that can carry teams never get moved. You mostly have fringe starters / quality backups available. The options were go after a long term guy Campbell/Husso or go short term with Comrie/Georgiev.

Team defense is obviously way more important. Comrie would probably look average on a team that wasn't terrible defensively. He already looked solid on a Winnipeg team that was decent defensively.

"It'd be one thing to TRY to fix it and fail like the Red Wings did with Neldejovic (Sp) and miss is more forgivable"

I don't think it's forgivable to give out a huge contract. Not talking about Ned indiviually, but for Campbell & Husso. People wouldn't say at least Adams tried. We'd be lambasting him for signing a guy playing worse than Comrie for another 5 years at 6M and rightfully so. I'd rather gamble on a small move as a bridge for Levi. At least it's fairly easy to move on from Comrie.

"more forgivable than to simply not do anything"

I mean signing Comrie wasn't doing nothing. Promising backup signed to a cheap 2 year deal. If it doesn't work out he's not hurting the cap. It was very clear that signing anyone longer than 2 years wasn't in the plan. Also tried to get Matt Murray, which he obviously didn't waive his NTC.

When you need a legit NHL starter, signing a career backup who has been put on waivers by 3 different teams in the last 2 years isn't a solution. When 2 goalie desperate teams like the Devils and Red Wings get a good look at a goalie and say "Nah, we're good"...I think you can trust he's not starter material. It was a dumb signing from the start, ESPECIALLY in tandem with a goalie who can't start more than a game a week because he's old and will turn into a pumpkin if you do AND a goalie who hasn't been a good starter at the AHL level.

I think people can defend Adams positions on a lot of things. But, how he's handled goalies isn't one of them. It's been a mess from the moment he became GM. And he's done the bare minimum to bandage the situation. It was a problem when he didn't upgrade Hutton, it was a problem when he didn't replace Ullmark, and it's a problem that he brought back Anderson and added Comrie. There's zero excuses at this point.

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

You don't put all your chips on 1 goalie who, as of TODAY is at LEAST a year away from being a starter. IF he ever becomes one. That isn't a "plan", that's a lotto ticket.

What happens if he tweaks his knee at the roller disco. What if he becomes addicted to scratch off tickets in Rochester and binges garbage plates to soothe his depression? What if he simply can't adjust to the pro game and players? Plenty of 'can't miss' goalie prospects have missed, and missed badly. If any GM is putting all their plans for a goalie of the future on a single prospect goalie, that is terrible planning




When you need a legit NHL starter, signing a career backup who has been put on waivers by 3 different teams in the last 2 years isn't a solution. When 2 goalie desperate teams like the Devils and Red Wings get a good look at a goalie and say "Nah, we're good"...I think you can trust he's not starter material. It was a dumb signing from the start, ESPECIALLY in tandem with a goalie who can't start more than a game a week because he's old and will turn into a pumpkin if you do AND a goalie who hasn't been a good starter at the AHL level.

I think people can defend Adams positions on a lot of things. But, how he's handled goalies isn't one of them. It's been a mess from the moment he became GM. And he's done the bare minimum to bandage the situation. It was a problem when he didn't upgrade Hutton, it was a problem when he didn't replace Ullmark, and it's a problem that he brought back Anderson and added Comrie. There's zero excuses at this point.

You run the risk of Levi not signing here if you sign a long term goalie. That's obviously the reason they don't want to committ long term to someone. I mean we literally just had a goalie prospect not want to sign here.

Pretty much all great goalies were drafted by their team. Shesterkin, Sorokin, Hellebuyck, Saros, Vasilevskiy, Oettinger

Putting your faith into the insanely talented prospect that is carrying a meh college team doesn't seem like a bad thing. Risking Levi not signing here to take a chance on some vet seems like a terrible idea.

"When you need a legit NHL starter, signing a career backup who has been put on waivers by 3 different teams in the last 2 years isn't a solution."

He was never seen as a legit NHL starter. It's why he got a backup G deal. We didn't sign him for 4-5 years. He was seen as a short term bridge so UPL didn't have to play an insane amount of games right away. Idk how that isn't obvious.

"It was a dumb signing from the start"

It was not dumb to go after a short term bridge goalie instead of a long term guy. Weren't you the poster that was upset they didn't go after Husso? So instead of Comrie we could have a bad goalie signed for 4 years at 2.5x times the cap hit. Going after Comrie was the least risk of all the signings.

"It was a problem when he didn't upgrade Hutton"

Hutton was a backup that barely played when Adams became GM.

"But, how he's handled goalies isn't one of them."

Because most people can see the team defense is largely the issue. UPL/Comrie would probably be an average pairing on Boston.

 

[BFLO]

You run the risk of Levi not signing here if you sign a long term goalie. That's obviously the reason they don't want to committ long term to someone. I mean we literally just had a goalie prospect not want to sign here.

Pretty much all great goalies were drafted by their team. Shesterkin, Sorokin, Hellebuyck, Saros, Vasilevskiy, Oettinger

Putting your faith into the insanely talented prospect that is carrying a meh college team doesn't seem like a bad thing. Risking Levi not signing here to take a chance on some vet seems like a terrible idea.

"When you need a legit NHL starter, signing a career backup who has been put on waivers by 3 different teams in the last 2 years isn't a solution."

He was never seen as a legit NHL starter. It's why he got a backup G deal. We didn't sign him for 4-5 years. He was seen as a short term bridge so UPL didn't have to play an insane amount of games right away. Idk how that isn't obvious.

"It was a dumb signing from the start"

It was not dumb to go after a short term bridge goalie instead of a long term guy. Weren't you the poster that was upset they didn't go after Husso? So instead of Comrie we could have a bad goalie signed for 4 years at 2.5x times the cap hit. Going after Comrie was the least risk of all the signings.

"It was a problem when he didn't upgrade Hutton"

Hutton was a backup that barely played when Adams became GM.

"But, how he's handled goalies isn't one of them."

Because most people can see the team defense is largely the issue. UPL/Comrie would probably be an average pairing on Boston.

If Levi refused to sign because he didn't think he was good enough to displace one of Husso, Vanacek, Samsonov or Gerogiev 2-3 years from now then he was never going to be the savior anyways.

I'd think holding his roster spot open for 3-4 years prior to his arrival would be perceived as a giant red flag to him. And would make it far more likely he doesn't sign.

 

[sabremike]

Not ponying up and paying Ulmark was one of the biggest blunders in Sabres history. We essentially functioned as a second Boston AHL affiliate by developing a Vezina candidate goalie for them. Adams dropped the ball and shit all over it with Taco Bell level diarrhea.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Not ponying up and paying Ulmark was one of the biggest blunders in Sabres history. We essentially functioned as a second Boston AHL affiliate by developing a Vezina candidate goalie for them. Adams dropped the ball and shit all over it with Taco Bell level diarrhea.

The counter point is that Ullmark wanted a year or two longer in term, and a mil or so more in AAV. I've always thought, "so what", considering that KA has been paying bums and LTIR guys to make the cap floor the last few seasons. Imagine seeing us pay Ben Bishop to not play, and think that's better than overpaying Ullmark by a mil.

In before someone says "but Ullmark wouldn't look as good behind Buffalo's weak team defense". No shit, it's not about that, it's about being better than a three-headed mediocre goalie. Just enough better to earn 4-8 more pts by season's end. I think we can all agree we'd really like that right about now.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

Revisionist history is all well and good but Ulmark never demonstrated the ability to be a 1G. He had a lengthy injury history so durability was questionable. I'm happy he turned it around but I would have never paid him the supposed 6x6 he wanted to stay. He gave out the stupid price to see if he could rake advantage of KA, I see it all the time where a girl goes I'll sleep with you for 5k baht to take advantage of the 2wk millionaires. Which the GM act like during UFA and tdl season

 

[Irie]

The counter point is that Ullmark wanted a year or two longer in term, and a mil or so more in AAV. I've always thought, "so what", considering that KA has been paying bums and LTIR guys to make the cap floor the last few seasons. Imagine seeing us pay Ben Bishop to not play, and think that's better than overpaying Ullmark by a mil.

In before someone says "but Ullmark wouldn't look as good behind Buffalo's weak team defense". No shit, it's not about that, it's about being better than a three-headed mediocre goalie. Just enough better to earn 4-8 more pts by season's end. I think we can all agree we'd really like that right about now.

I think it was also that Ullmark coud not stay healthy behind a weak Buffalo defense. He couldn't stay healthy for more than 2 or 3 weeks at a time, so the team was still always scrambling for goaltending, even when he was here.

The Sabres goalies end up on the bottom of pile-ups and are forced to make several knee tearing and hip displacing saves a game. Ullmark was way more athletic in Buffalo games than he has had to be in Bruins games, and that has been a big factor in increasing his durability.

What would our narrative be if he were re-signed, but had been out for half of his games here again?

For the record, I really wanted Linus back, but was terrified of giving him anything longer than a 4 year term. He got 4x5 from Boston, but rumor was he wouldn't sign in Buffalo for less than 5 or 6 years at 6.

 

[Duddy]

I doubt he does, but he has to find a goalie until levi is ready. We'll roll with UPL and Comrie again next season, to not "block" Levi.

 

[joshjull]

I'm not a KA basher, just think he could have done more/better with some of the moves he's made.

Defense - Signed Lyubushkin for 3rd pair RHD. I wanted a 2nd pair RHD and push Jokiharju to 3rd pair. KA saw that move as being necessary during the summer and I agree, just needed a better guy. Traded for Stillman, which imo is just adding another bad Dman that only brings a different element than the other bad Dmen he replaced. Stillman, Bryson, and Clague shouldn't see ice time...at all...ever. In the summer, I can give him slack for waiting to see what he had in those guys, and Fitz and Pilut. Early in the season it was apparent that none of them are good enough, so I don't mind waiting for the season to make a move (even as far as the TDL), but Stillman is a whole two levels of talent less than what he should have been targeting. I really don't get that trade at all.

Goalie - Yzerman is no savant in my eyes, but he did exactly what KA should have done and trade a pick for Husso's rights (Det traded a 3rd but Buf had three 2nds). Any goalie was going to struggle with the Sabres but it's not in doubt for me, that Husso would have been 4-6 pts or more better than Comrie/UPL. His three year deal would align perfectly with Levi's development path.

What are you basing the Husso stuff on? He only has a .904 SV% on team thats better at PKing and playing defensively overall than we are.

-We’re 25th in xGA/60 at 5v5 (Wings are 15th).
-We‘ve given up the 5th most 5v5 HDCA/60. (Wings 14th most)
-We have the 4th worst xGA/60 on the PK (Wings 15th worst)


I find it very hard to believe he would be able to maintain his .904 SV% with us, let alone earn 4-6 or more points in the standings. That seems like a lot of wishful thinking.

These roster flaws have persisted enough this season to be a difference maker between playoffs or not, while the moves I hoped for would have still been developmentally friendly with "the plan". He's done poorly in that regard, but done really well to change the atmosphere around the club, and allow the scouting dept to make the most of the draft process.

Of course the roster flaws persisted. They were baked into the focus of this season and the roster building done to support it. They also said about 1000x they weren't deviating from the plan for this season.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

What are you basing the Husso stuff on? He only has a .904 SV% on team thats better at PKing and playing defensively overall than we are.

-We’re 25th in xGA/60 at 5v5 (Wings are 15th).
-We‘ve given up the 5th most 5v5 HDCA/60. (Wings 14th most)
-We have the 4th worst xGA/60 on the PK (Wings 15th worst)


I find it very hard to believe he would be able to maintain his .904 SV% with us, let alone earn 4-6 or more points in the standings. That seems like a lot of wishful thinking.


Of course the roster flaws persisted. They were baked into the focus of this season and the roster building done to support it. They also said about 1000x they weren't deviating from the plan for this season.

We'll never know how much worse Husso's stats would be in Buffalo, and I assume they would be worse. We can boil this down to who do we think is a better goalie, Husso or Comrie. Put up a poll if you want. My mind has always been made up, and the difference is probably worth at least 4 pts. You (and others) can go with the "we'll never know" argument. I accept that. I think differently, and you'll just have to accept that.

Edit - we're talking about the best of three goalies in Detroit, vs the worst of three goalies in Buffalo. Husso has outplayed the other two in Det, while Comrie has been the worst of the mediocre bunch in Buf. It's not hard for me to imagine that Husso would still be outperforming Comrie in Buffalo.

The focus of the season can be development all day every day, but that doesn't mean KA couldn't have done better in the two spots he needed to make a roster addition. Being better with those moves doesn't interfere with the focus of development in any way, at all.

 

[Chainshot]

In terms of how things have shaken out, looking back on it, I wonder if letting Ullmark leave the bubble to go be at his father's funeral and see his family would've changed his mind on staying at the offer he got from Buffalo. We'll never know.

 

[TehDoak]

I doubt he does, but he has to find a goalie until levi is ready. We'll roll with UPL and Comrie again next season, to not "block" Levi.

I really hope this isn’t the front office thought process. It should be:

We need a goalie. Period.

If Levi is ever ready to be a NHL starter it’s a great problem to have. It’s not hard to trade a good goalie.

Solve the goalie issue and deal with Levi WHEN it’s an actual problem. We cant ONLY look at short term goalies because maybe Levi will be a NHL starter someday. Every option needs to be on the table.

 

[Chainshot]

I doubt he does, but he has to find a goalie until levi is ready. We'll roll with UPL and Comrie again next season, to not "block" Levi.

If Providence lays a beating on NEU tonight, they can sign Levi and then not worry about what sort of colonic blockage they experience by finding an actual goalie since Levi will be under contract.

 

[TommyDangles]

I don't know how people can watch how bad this team is defensively and think our need is a goalie right now.

 

[Zman5778]

I don't know how people can watch how bad this team is defensively and think our need is a goalie right now.

I put this graphic in the goalie thread as well. I'm not sure that the stats in the graphic are a KA thing. Could a top 4 D and legit 3rd pairing LHD help? Yeah, to an extent.

But our goalies being bombarded is MUCH MUCH more on Granato, the coaching staff and the players. Our team commitment to defense is non-existent. Fix that....and this team becomes infinitely better.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I put this graphic in the goalie thread as well. I'm not sure that the stats in the graphic are a KA thing. Could a top 4 D and legit 3rd pairing LHD help? Yeah, to an extent.

But our goalies being bombarded is MUCH MUCH more on Granato, the coaching staff and the players. Our team commitment to defense is non-existent. Fix that....and this team becomes infinitely better.

I agree with this. But KA can't fix any on-ice deficiencies. Let's say 10% of the GA problem can be improved with a better goalie. I want KA to maximize that improvement, even if it's just 10% of the problem. That's where my point of acquiring Husso last summer comes in. But now, or even this summer after already signing Comrie to a 2 yr deal, I'm not so sure it's worth trying to trade Comrie and going after another guy. KA made his move there and it's not good business trading a FA signing away after one year. Ho-hum, what's done is done. Whether it's good business or not, I don't expect KA to go that route. I figure he'll go with UPL/Comrie, and hope Granato can instill some team defense, hope for the best. I want to keep UPL since he at least has some more development to go through, and can at least become a solid back-up.

I accept that Comrie is a two year mistake/acceptance of a lesser option, that can be mitigated by better team defense.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

The chart you should be looking at for goalies and team defense is Ga/60 v HDxGA/ 60.

Buffalo’s spread is middling, but they give up more HDxGA/60.

All four of their major lines have been defensive sieves and only Thompson’s has been outscoring their opposition.

Girgs-Krebs-Okposo do play low event hockey, but they don’t generally line match (especially at home).

The younger players are marginal NHLers at this point even if their offensive potential is apparent. That’s why they didn’t do anything too drastic. Krebs, Quinn, Peterka, and even Cozens have been outmatched. Effectively Buffalo started the season without a 2nd line, and their 3rd line has been disappointing.

To make the playoffs next year they need Peterka-Cozens-Quinn to either be an median 2nd line or a top 3rd line. And they need Krebs to lead a good 4th line.

Some pressure would be taken off the forwards if Johnson/Power step up next year. I don’t expect meaningful reinforcements from Rochester to join in 23.

I agree with this. But KA can't fix any on-ice deficiencies. Let's say 10% of the GA problem can be improved with a better goalie. I want KA to maximize that improvement, even if it's just 10% of the problem. That's where my point of acquiring Husso last summer comes in. But now, or even this summer after already signing Comrie to a 2 yr deal, I'm not so sure it's worth trying to trade Comrie and going after another guy. KA made his move there and it's not good business trading a FA signing away after one year. Ho-hum, what's done is done. Whether it's good business or not, I don't expect KA to go that route. I figure he'll go with UPL/Comrie, and hope Granato can instill some team defense, hope for the best. I want to keep UPL since he at least has some more development to go through, and can at least become a solid back-up.

I accept that Comrie is a two year mistake/acceptance of a lesser option, that can be mitigated by better team defense.

10% of the GA being fixed by a new goalie is just on the cusp of being a Vezina finalist. That’s like 20-30 GSAA

 

[joshjull]

We'll never know how much worse Husso's stats would be in Buffalo, and I assume they would be worse. We can boil this down to who do we think is a better goalie, Husso or Comrie. Put up a poll if you want. My mind has always been made up, and the difference is probably worth at least 4 pts. You (and others) can go with the "we'll never know" argument. I accept that. I think differently, and you'll just have to accept that.

Edit - we're talking about the best of three goalies in Detroit, vs the worst of three goalies in Buffalo. Husso has outplayed the other two in Det, while Comrie has been the worst of the mediocre bunch in Buf. It's not hard for me to imagine that Husso would still be outperforming Comrie in Buffalo.

Of course you want to believe Husso would be better and give us at least 4 to 6 more points. you want to be angry at management if they miss the playoffs.

Husso seems to be trending in the same direction Ned did last season for Detroit. For their sake, they better hope he doesn't completely flame out like Ned eventually did.

The focus of the season can be development all day every day, but that doesn't mean KA couldn't have done better in the two spots he needed to make a roster addition. Being better with those moves doesn't interfere with the focus of development in any way, at all.

You’re evaluating management through the prism of “did they do enough to make the playoffs”. It was never the focus and shouldn’t be the measure. The measure should be “how successful were they growing/developing players and the team overall?” On that front they've been very successful .

Where their focus for this season mattered most is in how they went about building the roster for this year. It’s why they weren’t worried about upgrading Joker just to upgrade him. But they would bring in to upgradE that fit certain criteria; similar age as core group with term beyond this season. The only way Joker was getting upgraded was if they could get someone like Chycryn in a trade. Which made the likely hood of it happening pretty low for this season.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Of course you want to believe Husso would be better and give us at least 4 to 6 more points. you want to be angry at management if they miss the playoffs.

Husso seems to be trending in the same direction Ned did last season for Detroit. For their sake, they better hope he doesn't completely flame out like Ned eventually did.


You’re evaluating management through the prism of “did they do enough to make the playoffs”. It was never the focus and shouldn’t be the measure. The measure should be “how successful were they growing/developing players and the team overall?” On that front they've been very successful .

Where their focus for this season mattered most is in how they went about building the roster for this year. It’s why they weren’t worried about upgrading Joker just to upgrade him. But they would bring in to upgradE that fit certain criteria; similar age as core group with term beyond this season. The only way Joker was getting upgraded was if they could get someone like Chycryn in a trade. Which made the likely hood of it happening pretty low for this season.

Spare me with the "I want to be angry" BS. I really don't, and you should know that if you read enough of my posts. I was calling for a Husso signing all last summer, but now all of a sudden I want to be angry...come on man. I'm willing to disagree about how effective Husso could be in Buffalo. I'm not willing be characterized as WANTING to be a disgruntled fan. You can throw that stuff in the trash. Should I characterize you as a front office lackey? Of course not.

As for how I'm evaluating management, it's not just about playoffs...not even the main part. I think developing the roster should be the main goal for now and the next season or so...but that playoffs should always be hoped for/striven for. I seem to have had more faith in this team to reach the playoffs than most here. Ironic for the guy that "wants to be angry". But since I did have higher hopes, I put more value in the D-man and goalie adds, and believe they could have been better, and just better enough to be a playoff team. That said, I totally acknowledge that making the playoffs is still a small victory compared to developing the main group of young players. I don't think I should have to add a disclaimer to every post where I criticize the smaller picture, mini-failures of KA to make the roster better. When those issues are brought up, I will add my opinion though.

The example you gave about Chychrun is exactly the type of adds I want/wanted to see. Husso was that guy to bridge the gap to Levi, Chychrun/another top-4 D could have been that guy to push Jokiharju down and let him develop in a role that isn't over his head. Jokiharju is actually an example that the growing/developing of the roster hasn't been "very successful". It's been good, but not everybody has taken a step forward, and much of the offensive improvement has been at the expense of defensive awareness. It's very much a work in progress that can't be graded too accurately for now.

 

[TehDoak]

The big difference is the cost to acquire the irrelevant pieces Adams brought is no where near at the level of the cost to acquire the irrelevant pieces Botts brought in. That can not be overlooked in this comparison.

Botts spent to bring in what he thought were solutions. Adams didn't really spend much to bring in what he knew were bandaids.

It shows that the two had very different plans.

Botterill took half measures because the farm system was depleted. He made the mistake or trying to rebuild and build at the same time. He didn't want to spent quality assets to build because the previous GM went on a two year pillage and burn spree. So he spent a bunch of mid/low round picks bargain shopping. It, of course, had disastrous results

Adams took over a decently stocked prospect system. And after the team bottomed out in 2020, Adams embraced the rebuild....which is fine. The issue, last year showed things were ahead of schedule. Thompson and Dahlin had strong years, Cozens were all coming along. You had two strong rookie seasons in Rochester. This was the logical time to start spending on outside pieces. Not much, maybe adding a top 4 d-man, maybe a defensive center, and resolve the goaltending. Adams, instead, chose to hoard the picks and spend at the cap floor for the 2nd straight year. And because of that, we're going to have a top 5 vote Hart getting in Thompson and a Norris nominee....and miss the playoffs. This year is a missed opportunity for Adams. Last summer Adams had 8 picks in the 1st an 2nd rounds in 2022 and 2023 as assets to improve the team. It wasn't until the trade deadline that he spent any of them on this season. Not utilizing cap space is another issue. As we are seeing the season close out, that was a clear mistake.

 

[Irie]

Botterill took half measures because the farm system was depleted. He made the mistake or trying to rebuild and build at the same time. He didn't want to spent quality assets to build because the previous GM went on a two year pillage and burn spree. So he spent a bunch of mid/low round picks bargain shopping. It, of course, had disastrous results

Adams took over a decently stocked prospect system. And after the team bottomed out in 2020, Adams embraced the rebuild....which is fine. The issue, last year showed things were ahead of schedule. Thompson and Dahlin had strong years, Cozens were all coming along. You had two strong rookie seasons in Rochester. This was the logical time to start spending on outside pieces. Not much, maybe adding a top 4 d-man, maybe a defensive center, and resolve the goaltending. Adams, instead, chose to hoard the picks and spend at the cap floor for the 2nd straight year. And because of that, we're going to have a top 5 vote Hart getting in Thompson and a Norris nominee....and miss the playoffs. This year is a missed opportunity for Adams. Last summer Adams had 8 picks in the 1st an 2nd rounds in 2022 and 2023 as assets to improve the team. It wasn't until the trade deadline that he spent any of them on this season. Not utilizing cap space is another issue. As we are seeing the season close out, that was a clear mistake.

Botterill was GM for roughly 4 more months than Adams has been GM

Botterill traded

One 1st round pick
Two 2nd round picks
Four 3rd round picks
Two 4th round picks
Three 5th round picks

and a few 6th and 7th rounders to move up a few spots to select Hugle and Cederqvist.

That is not a nothing-burger of draft capital.

As far as the "decently stocked prospect system", it looked like this at the time of Adam's hire:

1. Cozens
2. UPL
3. Portillo
4. Asplund
5. Johnson
6. Ruotsalainen
7. Weissbach
8. Sameulsson
9. Laaksonen
10. Matej Pekar
11. Marcus Davidsson
12. Fitzgerald
13. Bryson
14. Rousek
15. Murray

There are two really nice pieces in Cozens and Sammy, but it isn't like Adams had the pathway to NHL success paved ahead of him with a path of prospect gold.

I am not getting into the goalie debate of Comrie vs Campbell vs Husso vs etc playing behind different teams, because that was not part of my post you are quoting, but I think this shows that Bott's plan was substantially different than Adam's plan, and making excuses for Bott's plan based on differences in situations is far-fetched.

They had different visions. The roster Botts inherited had a lot of good players, and by the time he was fired, the Sabres were the "dysfunctional organization poster child" for the NHL.

 

[TehDoak]

Botterill was GM for roughly 4 more months than Adams has been GM

Botterill traded

One 1st round pick
Two 2nd round picks
Four 3rd round picks
Two 4th round picks
Three 5th round picks

and a few 6th and 7th rounders to move up a few spots to select Hugle and Cederqvist.

That is not a nothing-burger of draft capital.

As far as the "decently stocked prospect system", it looked like this at the time of Adam's hire:

1. Cozens
2. UPL
3. Portillo
4. Asplund
5. Johnson
6. Ruotsalainen
7. Weissbach
8. Sameulsson
9. Laaksonen
10. Matej Pekar
11. Marcus Davidsson
12. Fitzgerald
13. Bryson
14. Rousek
15. Murray

There are two really nice pieces in Cozens and Sammy, but it isn't like Adams had the pathway to NHL success paved ahead of him with a path of prospect gold.

I am not getting into the goalie debate of Comrie vs Campbell vs Husso vs etc playing behind different teams, because that was not part of my post you are quoting, but I think this shows that Bott's plan was substantially different than Adam's plan, and making excuses for Bott's plan based on differences in situations is far-fetched.

They had different visions. The roster Botts inherited had a lot of good players, and by the time he was fired, the Sabres were the "dysfunctional organization poster child" for the NHL.

…..your list is missing mittelstadt, Dahlin, Thompson, and Jokiharhu who were 21, 20, 22, and 21 when Adams took over. So while they were no longer prospects, most of the core players on the team currently were JB acquisitions

I had forgotten about the Montour/Miller trades, so he did spend some of his higher picks.

Please don’t confuse what I am saying. JB wasn’t a good GM. However, despite his wasting of draft capital, the Sabres youth pipeline was in a better spot when he left Than when he arrived.

 

[Irie]

…..your list is missing mittelstadt, Dahlin, Thompson, and Jokiharhu who were 21, 20, 22, and 21 when Adams took over. So while they were no longer prospects, most of the core players on the team currently were JB acquisitions

I had forgotten about the Montour/Miller trades, so he did spend some of his higher picks.

Please don’t confuse what I am saying. JB wasn’t a good GM. However, despite his wasting of draft capital, the Sabres youth pipeline was in a better spot when he left Than when he arrived.

All true. But Botts did trade out the Sabres best players for prospects and draft picks, and was able to pick a first overall, 7th overall, 8th overall, 31st, 32nd, and 37th in his drafts, so it should be expected he would have added some talent to the farm. Adams made similar moves in that regard, but that is where the similarities end.

My post was just pointing out the point that Botts paid more for below average help than Adams, who paid bargain basement prices for one year bandaids that were obvious tank moves.

My post was just in response to the argument that the two made the exact same type of moves for help.