Kevin Klein

[TheTakedown]

Honestly given how cheap our bottom pairing is as well as how effective they've been, that's enough reason for me to leave it alone.

Moore has shown SERIOUS progress this year, and klein is a good partner for him because he knows the game really, really well. He's got a super high hockey IQ and is even offensively aware when he needs to be. Also kids penalties in Nashville which is good because with Boyle departing I could see Klein getting some of the PK minutes.

Right now, you leave the bottom pairing the hell alone... Both of those players are capable, and in time I see them developing some series chemistry together (already saw some of it this playoff).

As for Moore, he will get better, stronger, faster, and more skilled. The fact that we have a guy like Dylan who is getting all the time in the world, that just shows how much the rangers put into their defense, and it shows with Moore

 

[The Lunatic Fridge]

Klein is exactly what this bottom pairing needs. He's already signed for multiple years. Just keep him with moore/diaz and worry about signing the rest of the core of the roster.

 

[BlueshirtBlitz]

Honestly given how cheap our bottom pairing is as well as how effective they've been, that's enough reason for me to leave it alone.

Moore has shown SERIOUS progress this year, and klein is a good partner for him because he knows the game really, really well. He's got a super high hockey IQ and is even offensively aware when he needs to be. Also kids penalties in Nashville which is good because with Boyle departing I could see Klein getting some of the PK minutes.

Right now, you leave the bottom pairing the hell alone... Both of those players are capable, and in time I see them developing some series chemistry together (already saw some of it this playoff).

As for Moore, he will get better, stronger, faster, and more skilled. The fact that we have a guy like Dylan who is getting all the time in the world, that just shows how much the rangers put into their defense, and it shows with Moore

He hasn't, though.

Moore played the same level of competition but did worse.

Sure, the bottom pairing is alright. But the middle pairing is REALLY GOOD and more important to keep together, and you have to clear the space any way you can.

 

[eco's bones]

He hasn't, though.

Moore played the same level of competition but did worse.

Sure, the bottom pairing is alright. But the middle pairing is REALLY GOOD and more important to keep together, and you have to clear the space any way you can.

Did worse--how?

The Rangers gave up a lot more goals in the first half of the season than they did in the second half. Scored more in the second half than in the first half. That's why we won more games in the second half.

 

[BlueshirtBlitz]

Did worse--how?

The Rangers gave up a lot more goals in the first half of the season than they did in the second half. Scored more in the second half than in the first half. That's why we won more games in the second half.

Do you think that's due to John Moore, or do you think that's due to Derek Stepan, Ryan McDonagh, Rick Nash, Martin St. Louis and Chris Kreider?

Moore was our worst defenseman after being alright for 30 games last year here. He regressed, unfortunately.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

Do you think that's due to John Moore, or do you think that's due to Derek Stepan, Ryan McDonagh, Rick Nash, Martin St. Louis and Chris Kreider?

Moore was our worst defenseman after being alright for 30 games last year here. He regressed, unfortunately.

Moore is really underrated here. He's not excellent defensively so he gets relentlessly criticized. Gobbles of talent, 22 years old, and our #6 about to make 1-1.5 mill. He's fine.

 

[Zil]

Moore is really underrated here. He's not excellent defensively so he gets relentlessly criticized. Gobbles of talent, 22 years old, and our #6 about to make 1-1.5 mill. He's fine.

I think he's a placeholder more than anything. I think he gets passed by Allen this year and Skjei soon after.

 

[eco's bones]

Do you think that's due to John Moore, or do you think that's due to Derek Stepan, Ryan McDonagh, Rick Nash, Martin St. Louis and Chris Kreider?

Moore was our worst defenseman after being alright for 30 games last year here. He regressed, unfortunately.

I know how much you like all kinds of stats. Here's the stats I like the best. They are team stats. Wins-Losses-Overtime losses. Those stats pretty much tell the story of how good your team is or isn't. Next comes goals for and goals against. Usually the more you score than give up helps to win more games.

As far as John Moore--when he paired with Del Zotto both he and MDZ were running around the ice all the time. Almost always one or both of them was in panic mode. Since Kevin Klein arrived Moore settled down nicely. Does he get caught out of position now and again?--yeah but since Klein came on board he's been a hell of a lot better and the team was a hell of a lot better as well. The eye counts for something too sometimes. A lot less panic--a lot less running around.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

I think he's a placeholder more than anything. I think he gets passed by Allen this year and Skjei soon after.

That's possible. But he's 22 and has tons of physical tools. He could develop into a second pairing LD if he improves his decision making and positioning in the defensive zone.

 

[Beacon]

Allen is older than Moore.

 

[Raspewtin]

Do you think that's due to John Moore, or do you think that's due to Derek Stepan, Ryan McDonagh, Rick Nash, Martin St. Louis and Chris Kreider?

Moore was our worst defenseman after being alright for 30 games last year here. He regressed, unfortunately.

I'm sorry but I agree. I don't see any improvement from Moore. He has the defensive and offensive IQ of a rock.

 

[Raspewtin]

That's possible. But he's 22 and has tons of physical tools. He could develop into a second pairing LD if he improves his decision making and positioning in the defensive zone.

He's not good at anything except skating and sometimes taking a slapshot.

 

[Zil]

Allen is older than Moore.

So? Moore has nice tools, but very little clue what he's actually doing. Allen appears to have the ability to properly execute all the simple plays, which should serve him very well when he gets his spot this season.

 

[BlueshirtBlitz]

I know how much you like all kinds of stats. Here's the stats I like the best. They are team stats. Wins-Losses-Overtime losses. Those stats pretty much tell the story of how good your team is or isn't. Next comes goals for and goals against. Usually the more you score than give up helps to win more games.

As far as John Moore--when he paired with Del Zotto both he and MDZ were running around the ice all the time. Almost always one or both of them was in panic mode. Since Kevin Klein arrived Moore settled down nicely. Does he get caught out of position now and again?--yeah but since Klein came on board he's been a hell of a lot better and the team was a hell of a lot better as well. The eye counts for something too sometimes. A lot less panic--a lot less running around.

Or was the team better because Derek Stepan started scoring at a near PPG pace and Hank started playing like Hank?

This team is very, very good. John Moore isn't. And Kevin Klein isn't as good as Stralman and will likely fail at performing as well as Stralsy has.

Sure, Moore can progress. In fact, he will, because he's a young NHL defenseman. The problem is he's not very good now when we're trying to compete for the Cup.

 

[Brooklyn Ranger]

I know how much you like all kinds of stats. Here's the stats I like the best. They are team stats. Wins-Losses-Overtime losses. Those stats pretty much tell the story of how good your team is or isn't. Next comes goals for and goals against. Usually the more you score than give up helps to win more games.

As far as John Moore--when he paired with Del Zotto both he and MDZ were running around the ice all the time. Almost always one or both of them was in panic mode. Since Kevin Klein arrived Moore settled down nicely. Does he get caught out of position now and again?--yeah but since Klein came on board he's been a hell of a lot better and the team was a hell of a lot better as well. The eye counts for something too sometimes. A lot less panic--a lot less running around.

Of course Moore and Del Zotto were running around--Del Zotto was playing a position where he was extremely uncomfortable, that's going to mess up any pair. The couple of games where Moore played on the right side, the pair looked just as bad, if not worse.

And Of course having Klein helped him--Klein is a right defenseman, both of them were playing a position they were comfortable with. But, very honestly, I think Moore didn't improve very much, if at all with Klein. It's just his mistakes were less noticeable. They also got the most sheltered minutes because the Rangers top four defensemen got the difficult assignments.

Moore is still young enough to improve--hopefully significantly. But, I don't think he took a much of a step forward this year.

 

[Blue Blooded]

Does anyone want to know some fun FACTS?

With Moore-Del Zotto on the ice, the Rangers scored 59.1% of the goals and had 53.9% possession.

With Moore-Klein on the ice, the Rangers scored 60% of the goals and had 49.7% possession.

So for all of their "running around" Moore-Del Zotto played better hockey than Moore-Klein (59.1% with 53.9% possession is hugely more sustainable than 60% with 49.1% possession). Moore-Klein were very good in the playoffs though.

 

[slipknottin]

I think he's a placeholder more than anything. I think he gets passed by Allen this year and Skjei soon after.

We do realize that Allen is a full year older than Moore, right?

Allen to me showed no improvement all year in the ahl. It's still arguable that he will ever be a full time nhl player

 

[slipknottin]

So? Moore has nice tools, but very little clue what he's actually doing. Allen appears to have the ability to properly execute all the simple plays, which should serve him very well when he gets his spot this season.

It's like youre talking about Diaz and didn't actually watch Moore play all playoffs.

 

[Brooklyn Ranger]

Does anyone want to know some fun FACTS?

With Moore-Del Zotto on the ice, the Rangers scored 59.1% of the goals and had 53.9% possession.

With Moore-Klein on the ice, the Rangers scored 60% of the goals and had 49.7% possession.

So for all of their "running around" Moore-Del Zotto played better hockey than Moore-Klein (59.1% with 53.9% possession is hugely more sustainable than 60% with 49.1% possession). Moore-Klein were very good in the playoffs though.

Or maybe the coaching staff had something to do with that too. Matching your weakest defensive pairing (along with a scoring line) against your opponents weakest lines is very good hockey strategy. It saves your best defensemen for the opponents best players.

As Mark Twain said...there are lies, damned lies and statistics. In sports statistics does not trump watching a team (and the league) for 100s games a year. But that's just my opinion.

 

[SA16]

Does anyone want to know some fun FACTS?

With Moore-Del Zotto on the ice, the Rangers scored 59.1% of the goals and had 53.9% possession.

With Moore-Klein on the ice, the Rangers scored 60% of the goals and had 49.7% possession.

So for all of their "running around" Moore-Del Zotto played better hockey than Moore-Klein (59.1% with 53.9% possession is hugely more sustainable than 60% with 49.1% possession). Moore-Klein were very good in the playoffs though.

The chance that there is a statistically significant difference between59.1 and 60 in these samples is near zero.

 

[Brooklyn Ranger]

The chance that there is a statistically significant difference between59.1 and 60 in these samples is near zero.

Blue Blood's arguing that either pair had good offensive numbers on the ice, not that there was a difference between the two pairs.

Those numbers actually open up the question of whether Klein made a difference for the team--if you rely only on the numbers. I'm not a huge fan of Klein (don't think he'd look good trying to handle 2nd pair minutes), but even with that, agree that Klein had a positive effect over all after he came here.

Ah, the unintended consequences of relying on statistics.

 

[donpaulo]

I think Klein can handle the 2nd pairing minutes. The question is can NY improve on what KK brings to the table on the 2nd pairing. If so what is the cost of improving at that position ?

If its a zero sum game between Stralman and Klein and NY is bumping up against the cap to keep Zuc, CK etc then go with Klein and put that "saved" money towards keeping the forwards on the club.

If the cap is not an issue than I think both players can be kept. You can never have enough defenseman. Also consider what NY paid for Klein and think about the situation if they still had MDZ. I like Klein and John Moore as an amazing 3rd pairing. Hopefully AV gives them more ice time so that the top 4 aren't on fumes come playoff time.

I agree with the sentiment that perhaps the best player to trade is Marc Staal. Although he is one of my favorite players on the current team I think he can garner a good return. That would allow NY to keep both Stralman and Klein. Then to find a pairing partner for John Moore on the 3rd set.

What strikes me about Stralman is how easy he makes everything appear playing a very difficult position in the NHL. I think thats the sign of a very good player.

Now that Brad Richards salary is off the roster I think there will be "enough" cap space to keep everyone on the team if Slats decides he wants to retain essentially the same roster.