Speculation: Kessel's Future?

[jimmycarter]

Kessel has a long history of burning fan bases...Nonis should be working on a contraction extension ASAP to find out where Kessel stands.

If not, deal his ass.

 

[threeGo]

Hope for a really bad 48 games with no changes to the current team. Draft Mackinnon/Barkov. In the summer Buyout Komisarek. Sign Perry(7-7.5m cap hit), Getzlaf(7-7.5m cap hit). Trade our 1st 2014 + Kadri+ something else for Bobby Ryan. Don't resign lombardi and connolly. If kessel doesn't want to sign by the end of the summer then trade him to recuperate any draft picks we lose in making a trade for bobby. Trade JVR + for a goalie.

Ryan - Getzlaf - Perry
Lupul - Grabovski - Kessel
Kulemin - Mackinnon/Barkov - Frattin
4th line.

 

[darrylsittler27]

This team is so badly put together...

He doesn`t really fit here.This team needs a 2 year rebuild,but it won`t happen.There are only 2 players we could trade for a number one center,and Kessel is the bait. Is he a good player? Yes. Is he what this team needs,no.If Kessel and say Kadri nets a true number one center,then do it.If not,get him one,otherwise he is just talent wasted on a team that is years away as it stands now.Depending on what we could get I would trade Kessel,Lupul,Phaneuff and Grabo.Last year's performance deserves it.5th worst and we have untouchables? Not anymore we don't.

 

[Jerkini]

Hope for a really bad 48 games with no changes to the current team. Draft Mackinnon/Barkov. In the summer Buyout Komisarek. Sign Perry(7-7.5m cap hit), Getzlaf(7-7.5m cap hit). Trade our 1st 2014 + Kadri+ something else for Bobby Ryan. Don't resign lombardi and connolly.

Ryan - Getzlaf - Perry
Lupul - Grabovski - Kessel
Kulemin - Mackinnon/Barkov - Frattin
4th line.

why would getzlaf and perry sign with a basement dweller for only a modest amount of money?

 

[Stephen]

He doesn`t really fit here.This team needs a 2 year rebuild,but it won`t happen.There are only 2 players we could trade for a number one center,and Kessel is the bait. Is he a good player? Yes. Is he what this team needs,no.If Kessel and say Kadri nets a true number one center,then do it.If not,get him one,otherwise he is just talent wasted on a team that is years away as it stands now.Depending on what we could get I would trade Kessel,Lupul,Phaneuff and Grabo.Last year's performance deserves it.5th worst and we have untouchables? Not anymore we don't.

The team is so badly put together that we have to jettison the best part instead of, I don't know, correcting the rest of the roster?

 

[Stephen]

Berglund, Stewart and a 1st round pick are a nice consolation prize

I know, I know, they do not = what we traded to get him but if we had to cut our losses because it was best in managing our assets then I wouldn't be all that upset

I like this idea.

I have to question whether you guys even know who Patrick Berglund and Chris Stewart are. Patrick Berglund came off a 38 point season and is a year younger than Phil Kessel, and Chris Stewart scored 30 points making $3 million a season and is the same age as Kessel. The Blues were also a 109 point team, so your 1st rounder is going to be pretty low, and lower with Kessel in their lineup.

How does any of that help the Leafs when the two pieces coming back are the same age, and have fewer combined goals and points than Kessel?

Get a ****ing clue.

 

[Epictetus]

Mess is completely wrong and so are you. The complexity you speak of is simply a euphemism for your own preference. Kessel scores goals and that helps us. Period. If you need a face of the franchise for off ice purposes, go out and get a guy who will do that for you. I said it when Kessrl got here that in order to get better they need to get someone ahead of him at the forward ranks. This fact remains. But that doesn't mean you get rid of the number two guy because you don't have the number one guy.

The complexity of the Toronto market is a tiring cliche. Things are only complicated because the last time we saw some winning action was a decade ago.

And what is your thought on Kessel walking as a free-agent? For nothing? It's certainly possible, since he always has enormous pressure on him here, the team hasn't made the playoffs, and the one guy who always stood up for him just got fired. It's perfectly reasonable for him to want to move on in his career. This is, for any rational argument, at least a possibility.

So it's not absurd or wrong to entertain trading Kessel if there is no contract extension in place. This is at least in line with the title of this thread.

Nobody knows what Kessel is thinking. To only approach this from the Maple Leaf perspective of what Kessel brings to the table for the Maple Leafs is inaccurate. For Kessel, the question is: what do the Maple Leafs offer that no other team can?

Mess's post takes this all into consideration. You are not.

Mess says:

"Letting Kessel potentially walking away as a UFA at the end of next season would only set this organization back further and increase the other controversy of the surrounding trade even more, and something Nonis must avoid at all cost. If Kessel walks Nonis should follow him out the door."

It's clear that this situation has to be either a) contract extension or b) a trade for maximum value. Anything else is hopeless. This goes beyond performance and re-signing a good player. It's what Kessel wants and if he will agree to be here.

 

[Stephen]

IMO if you're trading Kessel, you need to look to move at least 2 or more of Lupul, Phaneuf, Liles and Grabovski as well.

Kessel is an irreplacable cog on this team, the highest scorer, one of the highest scorers in the league and is under 25. The only way to get a player like this? Overpay for him with 2 1sts and a 2nd.

Kessel can easily be a top line guy, the best winger on his team. I see Kessel the same way I see Marian Hossa... maybe not "the guy" because of his personality etc. but can ride shotgun on a team going deep into the playoffs. Look at what Hossa did after he left Ottawa/ATL... he was on a line with Crosby then Datsyuk then Toews. This guy is a valuable piece on this team, if you want him moving forward... you start discussions with his agent and sign him this offseason.

If you do want to truly "rebuild" then you need to dump all the vets. Get a top 5 pick in the draft for Kessel and a top prospect or two. Move Phaneuf and Liles for similar future packages. Let guys like Gunnarsson, Kulemin and even Gardiner become the leaders of a young team poised to struggle for half a decade.

If Kessel is going to be traded in a franchise altering move, I'd look at moving him out of the Conference to a team like Minnesota on the upswing for a package including Mikael Gralund and Matt Dumba. Otherwise, I try my hardest to re-sign him and get better players around him.

 

[Stephen]

And what is your thought on Kessel walking as a free-agent? For nothing? It's certainly possible, since he always has enormous pressure on him here, the team hasn't made the playoffs, and the one guy who always stood up for him just got fired. It's perfectly reasonable for him to want to move on in his career. This is, for any rational argument, at least a possibility.

So it's not absurd or wrong to entertain trading Kessel if there is no contract extension in place. This is at least in line with the title of this thread.

Nobody knows what Kessel is thinking. To only approach this from the Maple Leaf perspective of what Kessel brings to the table for the Maple Leafs is inaccurate. For Kessel, the question is: what do the Maple Leafs offer that no other team can?

Mess's post takes this all into consideration. You are not.

Mess says:

It's clear that this situation has to be either a) contract extension or b) a trade for maximum value. Anything else is hopeless.

I try my hardest to re-sign him and if it doesn't materialize, I make sure I'm getting back blue chip futures and not simply NHL downgrades. And why wouldn't Kessel want to re-sign here other than the existence of voices like Mess who complain about his inability to be a face of the franchise and other things that don't matter a lick? For all the pressure on him, he's sure handled it quite well by producing exactly what's expected of him with fairly little help. Same with Phaneuf and his resurgent season last year. Guys need to stop listening to Doug MacLean, it's making you all sound foolish.

 

[threeGo]

why would getzlaf and perry sign with a basement dweller for only a modest amount of money?

No one is giving them 8mil cap hits in this new cba. 7.5 m cap will be a big deal and not many teams can offer that right now other than teams like ottawa, columbus etc.

 

[draeko17]

Kessel has a long history of burning fan bases...Nonis should be working on a contraction extension ASAP to find out where Kessel stands.

If not, deal his ass.

Aside from not wanting to re-sign in Boston, what is his history of doing this? or do you just mean it was a long time ago?

 

[Drugstorecowboi]

People dreaming/wishing of Getzlaf and/or Perry.... are they upcoming FAs? Or would we need to acquire them through trade? I would use Kessel in this case if it was the trade route....

I don't believe Kessel wants to re-sign.

 

[threeGo]

I try my hardest to re-sign him and if it doesn't materialize, I make sure I'm getting back blue chip futures and not simply NHL downgrades. And why wouldn't Kessel want to re-sign here other than the existence of voices like Mess who complain about his inability to be a face of the franchise and other things that don't matter a lick? For all the pressure on him, he's sure handled it quite well by producing exactly what's expected of him with fairly little help. Same with Phaneuf and his resurgent season last year. Guys need to stop listening to Doug MacLean, it's making you all sound foolish.

We should attempt to resign him, but if he wants to wait until he gets to his contract year, then we have to trade him. since he has a nmc starting in the summer we will have to try to negotiate with him before then. If he doesn't sign, it is too risky to keep him and we should maximize his profit (He should have really good point totals in this short season since he is a fast starter).

 

[RogerRoeper*]

Kessel has a long history of burning fan bases...Nonis should be working on a contraction extension ASAP to find out where Kessel stands.

If not, deal his ass.

 

[RogerRoeper*]

People dreaming/wishing of Getzlaf and/or Perry.... are they upcoming FAs? Or would we need to acquire them through trade? I would use Kessel in this case if it was the trade route....

I don't believe Kessel wants to re-sign.

Sign them as UFA's. Don't trade for them.

 

[RogerRoeper*]

If Kessel is going to be traded in a franchise altering move, I'd look at moving him out of the Conference to a team like Minnesota on the upswing for a package including Mikael Gralund and Matt Dumba. Otherwise, I try my hardest to re-sign him and get better players around him.

Why does everyone think Kessel will go to Minnesota? They don't have the money to sign him.

 

[Epictetus]

I try my hardest to re-sign him and if it doesn't materialize, I make sure I'm getting back blue chip futures and not simply NHL downgrades.

Agreed. This was all that needed to be said, really.

And why wouldn't Kessel want to re-sign here other than the existence of voices like Mess who complain about his inability to be a face of the franchise and other things that don't matter a lick?

This doesn't make sense. You are asking why Kessel would want to re-sign, and then stating why Mess thinks he should not be re-signed. These are two completely different points.

Anyway, as I said in my previous post, who knows what Kessel is thinking. He could be upset that this team regressed this past year when he took his game to another level, he could be upset at how the Toronto media perceives him, he could be upset that he still does not have a top-line center like other star wingers do, he could think Toronto is still missing many pieces, and now he could be upset at the handling of Brian Burke. The point is that Kessel not re-signing is a possibility.

For all the pressure on him, he's sure handled it quite well by producing exactly what's expected of him with fairly little help. Same with Phaneuf and his resurgent season last year. Guys need to stop listening to Doug MacLean, it's making you all sound foolish.

First, I do not listen to Doug MacLean, so I don't agree with being labelled with those that do.

And more importantly, these players produced well, however, the team did not. For them (I would like to think at least), this hurts more.

Why does everyone think Kessel will go to Minnesota? They don't have the money to sign him.

I think Stephen was moreso stating the type of package it'd take to get 'maximum value' for Kessel, citing Minnesota as an example.

Anyway, to entertain any trade, it has to at the very least, be better than two 1st's and a 2nd.

 

[RogerRoeper*]

Kessel absolutely has to be the most underrated player in the NHL right now.

The guy finished top 6 in league scoring last year and led the league in scoring for almost half the year while playing with Tyler Bozak.

I've never seen a top scorer get crapped on as much as him. Crazy.

Without a doubt he IS the most underrated. The same people who said he'd be garbage without Marc Savard are still crapping on him for doing the exact opposite that was predicted.

 

[RogerRoeper*]

I agree, and imagine what Kessel would command at the trade deadline if he lights it up this season?

As if we don't have the money. Give him a monster 8 year deal. He deserves it and the Leafs have the money.

 

[RogerRoeper*]

Lets trade Kessel, Phaneuf, Gardiner, JVR and Rielly for picks.

Ah, magical "Picks". All is right with the world when you have picks.

 

[Stephen]

Agreed. This was all that needed to be said, really.



This doesn't make sense. You are asking why Kessel would want to re-sign, and then stating why Mess thinks he should not be re-signed. These are two completely different points.

Anyway, as I said in my previous post, who knows what Kessel is thinking. He could be upset that this team regressed this past year when he took his game to another level, he could be upset at how the Toronto media perceives him, he could be upset that he still does not have a top-line center like other star wingers do, he could think Toronto is still missing many pieces, and now he could be upset at the handling of Brian Burke. The point is that Kessel not re-signing is a possibility.

My understanding of the need to sever ties is more to purge the Burke era and make moves that are more symbolic than practical. That lame face of the franchise talk is what I object to. If the team actually won some games and looked respectable, nobody cares about those meaningless things.

First, I do not listen to Doug MacLean, so I don't agree with being labelled with those that do.

And more importantly, these players produced well, however, the team did not. For them (I would like to think at least), this hurts more.

I just see no point in nitpicking and or jettisoning one of the few working parts on the team. If we have to trade him because he doesn't want to come back, I think Nonis will know and will act accordingly. But I think there's a lot of Kessel talk that's motivated by a desire to simply purge the Burke era and the contentious past Kessel represents, not any practical hockey concern at the moment. I hated that trade too but he's our best player, does what's asked of him on the ice and he's entertaining. Just focusing on the positives for one second, how many Toronto Maple Leafs have EVER brought the kind of electricity Phil Kessel does in his skating and one shot scoring capabilities?

 

[rdawg1234]

I see no signs of him leaving yet so i'm not sure.

see what he wants this year, if he says he wants out or seems iffy, trade him in the summer, it's that simple.

Most likely though I see him resigning. IMO we're on the upswing(although Im sure many pessimists will say otherwise) so I dont see him leaving now.

 

[ULF_55]

As it best current player Kessel is the present face of the franchise by default, but unfortunately he is also the poster child for everything that is wrong about this team.

He is small, soft, easily intimidated, weak defensively, soft spoken, avoids the media and lacks any leadership ability and his presence doesn't make any impact on success outside of the goals he scores. Even that is offset by a near team leading worst negative plus/minus, putting him on the ice for far more goals against then for in the process. That ends up hurting more than helping your team in the big picture when your a defensive liability on the ice.

Fans always want better players be brought in to support him, because they realize he is a support piece himself and unable to carry a team on his own merits making it better.

On top of all that he is a lightning rod of attention (unfairly to himself because he didn't make the trade), but for the dear price in assets used to obtain him that is a regular hot topic of controversy and constant distraction throughout Leafland that is only going to get more intense the greater Sequin/Hamilton perform and not going to end until Kessel is no longer a Leaf.

Burke's firing itself now was just served justice on the grounds of accountability for an ill-advised trade based on a GM badly misreading the level of compete and his inherited teams weak talent composition and going all-in far too early, resulting in far higher draft pick compensation then the player himself is worth.

The best thing for Leaf Nation would be to put an end to all this and for Nonis to use Kessel as a tradeable currency to address team needs and fill holes with a better long-term building block, and end all distractions by cutting ties to the past and moving on as an organization. IMO

Letting Kessel potentially walking away as a UFA at the end of next season would only set this organization back further and increase the other controversy of the surrounding trade even more, and something Nonis must avoid at all cost. If Kessel walks Nonis should follow him out the door.

Since the firing it seems many people are pointing at that deal as a huge blunder by Burke.

McLean, Kipper and gang said that is the kind of deal you make for a complete player, not a one dimensional support player.

People have been kind soft in the analysis of that deal, but the gloves have come off.

I share the opinion stated that he should have offersheeted Kessel and lived with the fall out. The cost would have been less, and if Bruins had matched would have been saddled with that contract.

Kessel very obviously is not the difference maker at a team level.

 

[Bomber0104]

As it best current player Kessel is the present face of the franchise by default, but unfortunately he is also the poster child for everything that is wrong about this team.

He is small, soft, easily intimidated, weak defensively, soft spoken, avoids the media and lacks any leadership ability and his presence doesn't make any impact on success outside of the goals he scores. Even that is offset by a near team leading worst negative plus/minus, putting him on the ice for far more goals against then for in the process. That ends up hurting more than helping your team in the big picture when your a defensive liability on the ice.

Fans always want better players be brought in to support him, because they realize he is a support piece himself and unable to carry a team on his own merits making it better.

On top of all that he is a lightning rod of attention (unfairly to himself because he didn't make the trade), but for the dear price in assets used to obtain him that is a regular hot topic of controversy and constant distraction throughout Leafland that is only going to get more intense the greater Sequin/Hamilton perform and not going to end until Kessel is no longer a Leaf.

Burke's firing itself now was just served justice on the grounds of accountability for an ill-advised trade based on a GM badly misreading the level of compete and his inherited teams weak talent composition and going all-in far too early, resulting in far higher draft pick compensation then the player himself is worth.

The best thing for Leaf Nation would be to put an end to all this and for Nonis to use Kessel as a tradeable currency to address team needs and fill holes with a better long-term building block, and end all distractions by cutting ties to the past and moving on as an organization. IMO

Letting Kessel potentially walking away as a UFA at the end of next season would only set this organization back further and increase the other controversy of the surrounding trade even more, and something Nonis must avoid at all cost. If Kessel walks Nonis should follow him out the door.

This is how I feel. Great post.

Ship him out and get back whatever you can back (young pieces/picks) to help this team build with players who play hockey properly.

 

[topched]

This is how I feel. Great post.

Ship him out and get back whatever you can back (young pieces/picks) to help this team build with players who play hockey properly.

I don't think this is a good move.

Kessel is an elite scorer. If you move him lets say, someone mentioned for a package including Mikael Granlund... you're gonna be spending another 5 years looking for a Phil Kessel for him to feed the puck to.

Kessel is EASILY young enough to stay with this team for another decade and be a top flight goal scorer.

Sure Burke paid too much, but we need to erase that from our minds, its over and done with now. Kessel is a fantastic winger, one of or arguably the the best pure sniping winger in the game today.

Nonis needs to find a way to acquire a young number 1 C to play with Kessel and that accomplishes the goal. If its through the draft, say Mackinnon, then so be it. You draft or use other assets to trade for "the guy", a Matt Duchene type, and you see what happens.

The only way PK should be traded is if he refuses to sign a deal. Trading him is one step forward and two steps back. You're plugging one hole and opening another. Nonis NEEDS to find a way to bring in a #1 Pivot without moving Kessel. He is ELITE.

I'd be far more inclined to move Phaneuf.