Speculation: Kessel's Future?

[Darcy Tucker]

Yep. People get blinded by point totals and dont really see the big picture of Phil Kessel's game.

He's like that account executive who brought in the most in new sales but lost just as many accounts.

Doesn't really help your team all that much, and certainly not a star performer.

Stars make a difference.

Period.

 

[Antropovsky]

no.

but a bad trade is a bad trade.

In case you miss it in my previous post.

I don't think it's the value in the trade that mattered, the important thing for the Bruin's franchise was that a change was made, imo.

 

[Bomber0104]

How do you know?

This isn't an argument that will be won tonight, and there isn't a right or wrong explanation for what happened with past teams. We can have our opinions, and mine is, that Boston doesn't win with Joe Thornton... and who gives a **** about the return. The change is what mattered, "in my opinion".

Kessel's value is high right now, it may go up, say in a few months. It may go down. My concern is that Caryle's defensive system is gonna expose a lot of Kessel's deficiencies or flaws (if you will). Again these "flaws" are based on my own opinion. I think his point totals may take a hit, and I think he might feud with Caryle, and just may bring that to the public (as he's done in the past). If we wait for any of these circumstances to happen (which obviously they may not), his value on the market will definitely take a hit. If we wait until he approaches UFA status, his value, again will take a hit. So if I'm a gambler, because I don't think we'll be able to surround Kessel with the leadership\skill needed to make us a playoff contender anytime soon (which is IMO the only time we'd be a contender with Kessel on our roster).. I say trade him now, while his value is where it's at.

I agree. Kessel got his points because he played in a system that was conducive to creating offensive chances but also giving up just as many chances and when you have a full line of players who are absolute crap in their own end, thats the reason they gave up more goals than they scored and hurt the team.

Basically Carlyle isnt going to put up with that crap and is actually going to make sure Kessel puts in effort in the other zones of the hockey rink.

Trade him...let's get younger and more complete players.

Teams would pay that for Kessel to be their finishing piece, as opposed to their franchise player like we've miscast him as.

 

[crump]

This thread is about Phil of the future.

 

[rdawg1234]

You are being awfully pessimistic on the kind of return the Leafs could get for Kessel.

he would get nothing to help us now.

I mean theoretically, he could get a first from say columbus or another low-end team(I would prefer columbus because you know they'll tank hard even with kessel)

so 1st+ jack johnson.

However there's no guarentee we get that, nore do I want to restart a rebuild right now.

the way I see this team, and it's fine if you dont. We have a great bottom 6 filled with faceoff winners(mcclement, steckel), PK killer(mcclement) and pests(brown, Komarov).

we have a solid top 6 filled with massive potential in JVR, Kessel, even lupul.

we're a #1 C and #1 G from competition, you add luongo and then make a smart trade for a #1 C(which yes, could be tough) and how does this team not look like a contender?

 

[achtungbaby]

he would get nothing to help us now.

I mean theoretically, he could get a first from say columbus or another low-end team(I would prefer columbus because you know they'll tank hard even with kessel)

so 1st+ jack johnson.

However there's no guarentee we get that, nore do I want to restart a rebuild right now.

the way I see this team, and it's fine if you dont. We have a great bottom 6 filled with faceoff winners(mcclement, steckel), PK killer(mcclement) and pests(brown, Komarov).

we have a solid top 6 filled with massive potential in JVR, Kessel, even lupul.

we're a #1 C and #1 G from competition, you add luongo and then make a smart trade for a #1 C(which yes, could be tough) and how does this team not look like a contender?

How do you add a starting goalie and a number one centre without robbing Peter to pay Paul in the short term and without hurting the team in the long term?

 

[rdawg1234]

How do you add a starting goalie and a number one centre without robbing Peter to pay Paul in the short term and without hurting the team in the long term?

It's obviously theoretical but:

Bozak+2nd+low prospect for Luongo= #1 Goalie.

then, summer time you go for getzlaf. You dont get getzlaf you go for Duchene, if the price is too high you go for stastny. Most likely this will result in losing a 1st+Gardiner+prospect but wont gut the team.

Way better than selling off the big guys, restarting and then hoping we drop low enough to get a guy that will make an impact, as well as waiting 3-4 years more just to make the playoffs.

We have too much skill(im sure some will disagree) to do a full rebuild, we're two moves from contention.

 

[Antropovsky]

Stephen, answer me these questions please:

If the Bruins didn't trade Thornton, would they have won the cup?
If the Bruins didn't trade Kessel, would they win the cup?
If we traded Kessel right now, would we win the cup in a sooner amount of time, then if we did not?

You throw around the LOL's to any poster who disagree's with your opinion.... which in itself is laughable. So answer my above questions, because unless you have the answers, then I think you should direct those LOL's! at yourself. It's "Funny" how you quickly disperse anyone else's opinion as nonsense, and are convinced that you yourself have the answers. The answer, that realistically noone can answer without a time machine. Your a hypocrite, you laugh at others opinion, then spout your own off.

If you respond to this post, without answering the questions, then it's plain to see, that you agree, that your delusional.

 

[The Blue Devil]

How do you suppose a team like LA, who is a contender, will possess a top five pick to package up to send us?

Not only are they a contender, but they are also icing the exact same team that almost tied the Dynasty Oilers playoff run on top of having a good half season of rest after winning the Cup. Very strange example to make indeed.

 

[TrueBlue86]

if kabby got us a (late) 1st and colborne, i'm sure kessel could fetch way more at the deadline with a year left on his contract

i could see this being Nonny's (yes that's his nickname lol) signature move

i don't see how else we get that potential num 1 C

 

[AvroArrow]

Don't really understand why they'd move him now. Unless we get some ridiculous offer like, kopitar + brown + 1st rounder im pretty confident he's gonna stay a leaf. He just had a breakout year, 82p in 82games. Not wise to move a player after he comes off his best season, 6th in the league in points on a team that didnt make the playoffs.

 

[The Blue Devil]

I agree. Kessel got his points because he played in a system that was conducive to creating offensive chances but also giving up just as many chances and when you have a full line of players who are absolute crap in their own end, thats the reason they gave up more goals than they scored and hurt the team.

Basically Carlyle isnt going to put up with that crap and is actually going to make sure Kessel puts in effort in the other zones of the hockey rink.

Trade him...let's get younger and more complete players.

Teams would pay that for Kessel to be their finishing piece, as opposed to their franchise player like we've miscast him as.

You do realize that one of Kessel's best season's came while playing in a very defensive Julien system right?

So you want to get younger than a 25 year old coming off a PPG season? I'm guessing you won't be happy until the Leafs are full of Timbits hockey players, nice and young.

 

[The Blue Devil]

Stephen, answer me these questions please:

If the Bruins didn't trade Thornton, would they have won the cup?
If the Bruins didn't trade Kessel, would they win the cup?
If we traded Kessel right now, would we win the cup in a sooner amount of time, then if we did not?

You throw around the LOL's to any poster who disagree's with your opinion.... which in itself is laughable. So answer my above questions, because unless you have the answers, then I think you should direct those LOL's! at yourself. It's "Funny" how you quickly disperse anyone else's opinion as nonsense, and are convinced that you yourself have the answers. The answer, that realistically noone can answer without a time machine. Your a hypocrite, you laugh at others opinion, then spout your own off.

If you respond to this post, without answering the questions, then it's plain to see, that you agree, that your delusional.

If the Bruins have Thornton, then they wlak through the playoffs en-route to a much easier Cup win. I mean they are the Cup champs with the most losses and were also one of the lowest scoring. Same could be said about Kessel as well.

 

[Kingstonian84*]

we have a solid top 6 filled with massive potential in JVR, Kessel, even lupul.

I dont even know about that: Kessel is an elite player no doubt but the rest are question marks. Can Lupul prove last year was no fluke or will he fall back into injury proneness and drop off in points? Can JVR finally show what he is capable of or will he continue to be an enigma? Can Kulemin bounce back or will he have another "off year"? See what I mean, far too many question marks currently.

 

[Kingstonian84*]

Don't really understand why they'd move him now. Unless we get some ridiculous offer like, kopitar + brown + 1st rounder im pretty confident he's gonna stay a leaf. He just had a breakout year, 82p in 82games. Not wise to move a player after he comes off his best season, 6th in the league in points on a team that didnt make the playoffs.

He wont be shopped now, he still has 2 years left on his deal. Only way he does get traded is next season IF Nonis feels he can't re-sign Kessel because no way will Kessel walk for nothing.

 

[TheSlovenian]

Don't really understand why they'd move him now. Unless we get some ridiculous offer like, kopitar + brown + 1st rounder im pretty confident he's gonna stay a leaf. He just had a breakout year, 82p in 82games. Not wise to move a player after he comes off his best season, 6th in the league in points on a team that didnt make the playoffs.

You know, that's never going to happen, right?

 

[RealisticLeaf55]

The harsh reality of the matter is we do not know what Kessel's state of mind is. His chemistry with Lups comes as strong evidence to me that if we fail to sign Lupul, we lose Kessel and obviously vice versa. If there is no signing to be made then we are forced by the rules of buisness to trade him before his expiration date comes. Sign him and Lupul before the deadline and if that fails, trade him by the deadline for whatever value he might be worth.

 

[hullsy47]

The harsh reality of the matter is we do not know what Kessel's state of mind is. His chemistry with Lups comes as strong evidence to me that if we fail to sign Lupul, we lose Kessel and obviously vice versa. If there is no signing to be made then we are forced by the rules of buisness to trade him before his expiration date comes. Sign him and Lupul before the deadline and if that fails, trade him by the deadline for whatever value he might be worth.

im thinkin nonis even thought burke gave up too much for kessel ..if he doesnt think kessel ia work 6-7 million per yr going forward ,then u look to move him for assets ,the worst thing is to have kessel walk after next year ...

 

[Sonny21]

I agree. Kessel got his points because he played in a system that was conducive to creating offensive chances but also giving up just as many chances and when you have a full line of players who are absolute crap in their own end, thats the reason they gave up more goals than they scored and hurt the team.

Basically Carlyle isnt going to put up with that crap and is actually going to make sure Kessel puts in effort in the other zones of the hockey rink.

Trade him...let's get younger and more complete players.

Teams would pay that for Kessel to be their finishing piece, as opposed to their franchise player like we've miscast him as.

I know a lot of people will disagree with you and all but I do kinda agree.

 

[Antropovsky]

If the Bruins have Thornton, then they wlak through the playoffs en-route to a much easier Cup win. I mean they are the Cup champs with the most losses and were also one of the lowest scoring. Same could be said about Kessel as well.

Your sure about that huh? Despite not having a time machine, you can say this without a doubt?
So by that account, the leafs should've walked over Carolina after Sundin returned to the team in 2002.

 

[The Apologist]

I agree. Kessel got his points because he played in a system that was conducive to creating offensive chances but also giving up just as many chances and when you have a full line of players who are absolute crap in their own end, thats the reason they gave up more goals than they scored and hurt the team.

Basically Carlyle isnt going to put up with that crap and is actually going to make sure Kessel puts in effort in the other zones of the hockey rink.

Trade him...let's get younger and more complete players.

Teams would pay that for Kessel to be their finishing piece, as opposed to their franchise player like we've miscast him as.

Kessel must have been terrible in Boston... Wait he did what?

 

[The Apologist]

You know, that's never going to happen, right?

I think he does which why he said he would stay a Leaf

 

[zeke]

quick, name all the leafs who have finished top-10 in the scoring race in the past, oh, 30 years or so.

you'll only need one hand.

 

[slozo]

I have no clue why anyone would want to trade the young star (Kessel) who just put up his best season and looks like he might not have even reached his peak yet. The talk about being stifled under Carlyle's system is even funnier, considering the offensive stats of teams he has coached.

No matter what people think about the trade that brought him here . . . he's our best player, provides the bulk of the offense, and there is no reason to think he won't continue to put up similar numbers for the next 5 or 6 years at least, considering his consistency.

He will not get moved.

 

[The Blue Devil]

Your sure about that huh? Despite not having a time machine, you can say this without a doubt?
So by that account, the leafs should've walked over Carolina after Sundin returned to the team in 2002.

How would that be the same?

Sundin came late into a series cold after a long injury, if he's not injured and doesn't come in cold maybe the results are different. Thornton(we'll assume he doesn't get injured) would be with them on their full playoff run, probably helps them score a few more goals in the process leading to fewer games played.