Kessel is not even on the same planet as Crosby!!

[Daily Special]

the fact remains that now that Kessel has been in the lime-light for the past week or so there are a lot of scouts, fans, hockey media personalities and at least 1 NHL GM that are not as impressed with the kid as they thought they would be. It doesn't matter what country you are from.

No, there's only been one GM that everyone made fun of for his comments and a few envious Canadian "Killjoy's" lamenting the fact Toews has been the sad story so far in the WJC. Kessel is leading the WJC in scoring - you can try to spin that any way you want - but he's still leading like The Hockey News and many other media sources predicted.

 

[espo*]

If he doesn't worry you, why all the animosity toward's the kid? I think it's sour grapes. If you can present a better argument, I'd love to hear it.

Why do a i need a better argument.I'm Canadian and have been one guy consistent about praising the kid around here.It's been tempered
but i still think he's gonna be a good one.
Crosby got( and still get's) the same treatment around here as kessel is getting,so does and did Ovechkin and so did every other top prospect that has ever come up around here.You see it all the time ad naseum...........Crosby is over-rated,Ovechkin can't pass well,blah,blah,blah,blah.

you've never witnessed this before around here? I'm sure you have.Until this phenomenon is strictly limited to American prospects,i think maybe you need to look at your thesis more deeply.

 

[ryz]

If he doesn't worry you, why all the animosity toward's the kid? I think it's sour grapes. If you can present a better argument, I'd love to hear it.

It's not sour grapes at all. Canada has top ranked draftees all the time. It's no big deal. I think the animosity comes from all the Crosby vs Kessel hype that went on last year when in retrospect the comparisson isn't even close. Canadians are in a tizzy because some of the American fans (many of which i'm sure have never seen him play) seem to think that Kessel is another generational talent when he clearly isn't. American fans build Kessel up to be more than he really is and Canadians make him out to be lower than what he really is. When in fact the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

 

[ryz]

No, there's only been one GM that everyone made fun of for his comments and a few envious Canadian "Killjoy's" lamenting the fact Toews has been the sad story so far in the WJC. Kessel is leading the WJC in scoring - you can try to spin that any way you want - but he's still leading like The Hockey News and many other media sources predicted.

Actually, no, everybody did not make fun of him at all, and if they did it was because of his draft record and trades and such, not because of his comment on Kessel. You may want to look back at that thread and see all the people that agreed with his assesment on Kessel. Also, why the Toews hate from you. This conversation had absolutely nothing to do with Toews, but you still bring him up and trash him. What gives? Again, simple fact is that kessel is NOT a runaway 1st overall selection. He's small, it's been reported that he has quite the attitude and his moves will get him killed against 220 lb NHL defensemen.

 

[Le Golie]

No, there's only been one GM that everyone made fun of for his comments and a few envious Canadian "Killjoy's" lamenting the fact Toews has been the sad story so far in the WJC. Kessel is leading the WJC in scoring - you can try to spin that any way you want - but he's still leading like The Hockey News and many other media sources predicted.

Stop making it a matter of nationality. The poster made a very valid and truthful point. There are scouts that are finding flaws in Kessel's game - to the point where they wouldn't take him first overall. Canadian, American or Isreli - that point is true.

Why are you taking it so personally? It happens almost every year except when there is an Ovechkin or Crosby up for grabs. This is the exact same thing that happened to Spezza in his draft year. Scouts found a lot of flaws and Kovalchuk emerged to pass him. I'm not comparing anyone in this draft class to Kovalchuk because nobody is close, but this whole issue of not everyone falling in love with the guy who has the early lead on 1st overall is nothing new. It's curious to see you dedicate your week to defending Kessel and bashing everything non-Kessel - all because you feel you need to hype up the red white and blue. Real talent analysts don't give a **** where a prospect is from. Try that.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

To nitpick a little, Modano and Lafontaine played in an even more wide open NHL and it took them a number of years respectively until were able to put up 90 point seasons, which is what Crosby is on pace for right away, at 18. They weren't on Crosby's level, either.

I'd like to give Crosby a bit more time before saying that. He still has things to work on you know.

 

[Zaddik]

You're right, Kessel and Crosby aren't on the same planet. Kessel is on a planet called 'Crazy-Cool-Hockey-Players-With-Dazzling-Moves' while Crosby is on planet 'Overrated'

 

[Rabid Ranger]

He does'nt worry us,we have better players then him and more coming along that will be better then him.By the way,he ain't more explosive then Ovechkin at all.

You flatter yourself here and assume a lot.

Like who? Angelo Esposito and John Tavares? Let's see how they pan out over the next few years before saying that. Talk about assuming alot..........

 

[revolverjgw]

I'd like to give Crosby a bit more time before saying that. He still has things to work on you know.

Yeah I agree, I was just talking about their performance as rookies.

(and of course maybe Sid blows up a knee or something and only gets 60 points this year... who knows... but I think he's just warming up)

 

[Daily Special]

Real talent analysts don't give a **** where a prospect is from. Try that.

What an ironic position given the title of the thread and it's author's national origin. This is now the fourth anti-Kessel thread and counting. Not a one criticizing Toews yet, who is by far the biggest disappointment in the WJC's. Where are his "real talent analysts"?

Why do a i need a better argument.I'm Canadian and have been one guy consistent about praising the kid around here.It's been tempered
but i still think he's gonna be a good one.
Crosby got( and still get's) the same treatment around here as kessel is getting,so does and did Ovechkin and so did every other top prospect that has ever come up around here.You see it all the time ad naseum...........Crosby is over-rated,Ovechkin can't pass well,blah,blah,blah,blah.

you've never witnessed this before around here? I'm sure you have.Until this phenomenon is strictly limited to American prospects,i think maybe you need to look at your thesis more deeply.

And the Crosby/Ovechkin detractors are always met toe to toe with their defenders. Not unlike here.


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[God Bless Canada]

On a fatigued US team Kessel's been the only one generating offense regularly, and has managed to lead the WJC's in scoring as THN predicted. Fortunately, scouts see that for what it is, and not the skewed bias you're spewing..

And a lot of things we're saying about Kessel skill-wise now (great speed, great shot, etc) were the same things we were saying about David Legwand in 1998 and 1999. It's a hard thing to say, but it's true.

I'll say it once, I'll say it again: Kessel, even though he is leading the tournament in scoring, and has played well, has not impressed me as much as he did last year, and has not met my expectations. He was fabulous at the WU18 last year. He hasn't been as good at this tournament as he was at that tournament. That could be a reflection of him being 18 in a 19-year-old tournament. Or it could be being so impressed the first two times watching him, that my expectations were unrealistic for him. He's leading the team in scoring, but he's been far from their best player, or their most valuable player, or even their best forward. A lot of his points have been, well, forgettable.

Ask anyone for a tournament all-star team right now, and Kessel isn't there. That's not to say he can't have two great games and show how good he really is. But the best player at this tournament so far has been Malkin. The best forward for the U.S.? T.J. Oshie.

Maybe Kessel, remembering what happened at the end of last year's semi-final vs. Russia, plays the game of his life and sends the ultimate message. Or maybe he'll have another good to very good game, skate well and get some chances, but leave us wanting more.

 

[God Bless Canada]

What an ironic position given the title of the thread and it's author's national origin. This is now the fourth anti-Kessel thread and counting. Not a one criticizing Toews yet, who is by far the biggest disappointment in the WJC's. Where are his "real talent analysts"?




And the Crosby/Ovechkin detractors are always met toe to toe with their defenders. Not unlike here.


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Toews is far from the most disappointing player in this tournament. He's 17, for crying out loud. That honour belongs to Guillame Latendresse. Toews isn't even the most disappointing undrafted player. He's still a consensus top five player. Most disappointing player is Jonessu (sp?) with Finland, who has likely played his way out of top 10 consideration. Frolik's been a big letdown, too.

The big evaluation point for Toews will be the WU18 this spring. If he doesn't play well there, then he'll see his top-five status fall.

 

[KariyaIsGod*]

Um... has anyone pointed out the fact that Kessel has already scored more points in this WJC than God, er, I mean Crosby scored last year? And wasn't last year's Canadian team stocked with 18 future HOFers? You'd think he'd have out-scored the over-rated and predictable Kessel in what is said to be their respective coming out party, wouldn't you?

Kessel is older first of all and he's the go to guy. Crosby was neither.

Fact is, Crosby is dropping a point per game in the NHL as an 18 year old while Kessel is still toiling in the WJC and he's only slightly younger than Sid.

Honestly, what did you expect of the kid? Should he be scoring 5 pts per game, ala Crosby in the Q last season? These are some of the best U-20 players in the world, not soft French Canadians.

Are the NHL players soft?

The kid's the real deal. If he was Canadian you people wouldn't stop praising him, but seeing as he is an American, he's over-rated. Condescend much?

No, no. Not at all. The same tihngs would be said if he was Canadian except you Americans would be teaming up with the Russians to bash the hell out of him a la the Crosby experience..

 

[MN_Gopher]

Or maybe he'll have another good to very good game, skate well and get some chances, but leave us wanting more.

What will it take for Kessel to impress? First all he can do is shoot. So he gets 9 assists. In college he is knocked for his lack of defense play. He plays a great two game vs NoDak and people wonder why he did not score more.

I see Kessel in a transiton period. Thinking about scoring and flying around vs just doing it. Thinking about getting back on D. Let him hit his comfort zone and settle in to his position. He has shown the ability to do everything needed to be a superstar at the next level. He does need to put it all together but it is there.

Hopefully after he is drafted it will take some pressure off and he can go out and play hockey. Lots of players are hyped to perform. But people are activly rooting against Kessel to be a success.

And no one is on planet Gretzky either. So becasue i am not on planet Gretzky and Jagr is not on said planet. Does that make it so Jagr and myself are on the same planet? Kessel is not on planet Crosby. But there are alot people not on planet Kessel either. So what was the point of this thread.

Kesssel is not equal to Crosby but that does not mean Kessel cannot be a superstar in his own right.

 

[Daily Special]

Ask anyone for a tournament all-star team right now, and Kessel isn't there. That's not to say he can't have two great games and show how good he really is.

On a Fatigued US team Kessel is the only one regularly scoring. He was instrumental in getting his team on the board against the Fins and Czechs.

I agree, Oshie has been brilliant as well - for what he is supposed to be doing, but to say the leading WJC scorer doesn't deserve to be on a tournament "all-star team" is pretty ridiculous and wholly unfounded. Kessel has been there when his team needed him for what he is supposed to do - get points.

No, no. Not at all. The same tihngs would be said if he was Canadian except you Americans would be teaming up with the Russians to bash the hell out of him a la the Crosby experience..

No you wouldn't. That's as close to a bold faced lie as I've ever seen. Toews is doing nothing, but no one except Big Bert has openly expressed dissatisfaction with Toews so far. Instead you elect to spend your every waking moment trying in vain to tear down the WJC leading scorer for some bizarre reason.


-

 

[God Bless Canada]

On a Fatigued US team Kessel is the only one regularly scoring. He was instrumental in getting his team on the board against the Fins and Czechs.

I agree, Oshie has been brilliant as well - for what he is supposed to be doing, but to say the leading WJC scorer doesn't deserve to be on a tournament "all-star team" is pretty ridiculous and wholly unfounded. Kessel has been there when his team needed him for what he is supposed to do - get points.



No you wouldn't. That's as close to a bold faced lie as I've ever seen. Toews is doing nothing, but no one except Big Bert has openly expressed dissatisfaction with Toews so far. Instead you elect to spend your every waking moment trying in vain to tear down the WJC leading scorer for some bizarre reason.


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Actually, it wouldn't be the first time that the top scorer has been left off the all-star team. In 2004, I believe, Anthony Stewart and Nigel Dawes were left off the all-star team, even though they were tied for the tournament scoring lead with 11 points, as 18-year-olds. Their line, with Mike Richards, was scored on once at full strength all tournament. Carter was selected to the all-star team in that tournament, and he played great, but Stewart was Canada's best forward that year.

 

[Jet]

Hi... My name is Phil Kessel... ack ack help I'm choking!

USA Hockey at it's finest!

 

[KariyaIsGod*]

No you wouldn't. That's as close to a bold faced lie as I've ever seen. Toews is doing nothing, but no one except Big Bert has openly expressed dissatisfaction with Toews so far. Instead you elect to spend your every waking moment trying in vain to tear down the WJC leading scorer for some bizarre reason.
-

It's not a lie.

You want me to express my dis-satisfaction with Toews? Fine. I am not satisfied. I think Erik Johnson should be picked first overall. Nationality has nothing to do with it unless it's a Canadian prospect because that's when Russia joins forces with the USA and often the rest of the world tobash the hell out of the kid... Crosby is a clear example.

 

[HabLover]

Toews is far from the most disappointing player in this tournament. He's 17, for crying out loud. That honour belongs to Guillame Latendresse. Toews isn't even the most disappointing undrafted player. He's still a consensus top five player. Most disappointing player is Jonessu (sp?) with Finland, who has likely played his way out of top 10 consideration. Frolik's been a big letdown, too.

The big evaluation point for Toews will be the WU18 this spring. If he doesn't play well there, then he'll see his top-five status fall.

I agree Latendresse has been bad, but not far behind is Lee, Ryan, Pouliot, Schremp.

 

[reidy]

Hi... My name is Phil Kessel... I had more points than God, I mean Sid Crosby had in his 2nd WJC appearance.

USA Hockey at it's finest!

Edited for accuracy.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Edited for accuracy.

No **** eh.

 

[Pete Rock]

Toews has been a victim of an incredible amount of Canadian penalties forcing checkers like Chipchura/Downie et al into more ice time than the offensively geared players on the Canadian squad.

While I haven't seen TOI stats available, just from watching the games you know that Toews, Pouliot, and Cogliano were all stuck on the bench for a good part of the game since they aren't solid PKers; you try creating offense with not entirely offensively gifted linemates in 13 minutes a game. I would say that Bobby Ryan was much more disappointing in this tourney.

However, downplaying Kessel's achievements in this tournament is beyond unbelievable. While it's true that he probably is not the most well-liked guy on the ice nor is he the most defensively adept, but his talent was obvious from the get go (except to Pierre "Kessel can't set up his teammates" McGuire) and was the best forward in the tournament that I watched(warning: my first taste of Malkin was tonight).

No Phil Kessel won't be Sidney Crosby, but neither will 99% of the NHL. But he'll be an incredibly talented offensive threat for years to come. That is, if he can rid himself of all big-head syndrome talk that's following him around.

Addendum: Calling Crosby over-rated is just as moronic as saying Kessel is such. Yes, top twenty in scoring in the NHL at the age of 18 and not much help offensively (or even defensively) speaking from the rest of his team.

 

[Letang fan 58]

Well I have not read the first hun 30 posts in this thread or so, and wont be reading them....my comment on Kessel not being in Crosbys planet is this:

Kessel has one phenomenal move, every defender in the world i believe has seen it at this point though and most have learned to stop it.

kessel has a boat load of speed, a real good shot (not as good as i orginally thought but real good), and a pure sniping ability that he didnt show much of in the juniors.

Crosby is immensely more creative with the puck and without, Crosby has just as good of a shot, Crosby may be not quite as quick but there isnt much fall off if any, I also dont think that anyone has found a way to stop crosby as I think he is more all around than Kessel.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Toews has been a victim of an incredible amount of Canadian penalties forcing checkers like Chipchura/Downie et al into more ice time than the offensively geared players on the Canadian squad.

While I haven't seen TOI stats available, just from watching the games you know that Toews, Pouliot, and Cogliano were all stuck on the bench for a good part of the game since they aren't solid PKers; you try creating offense with not entirely offensively gifted linemates in 13 minutes a game. I would say that Bobby Ryan was much more disappointing in this tourney.

However, downplaying Kessel's achievements in this tournament is beyond unbelievable. While it's true that he probably is not the most well-liked guy on the ice nor is he the most defensively adept, but his talent was obvious from the get go (except to Pierre "Kessel can't set up his teammates" McGuire) and was the best forward in the tournament that I watched(warning: my first taste of Malkin was tonight).

No Phil Kessel won't be Sidney Crosby, but neither will 99% of the NHL. But he'll be an incredibly talented offensive threat for years to come. That is, if he can rid himself of all big-head syndrome talk that's following him around.

Addendum: Calling Crosby over-rated is just as moronic as saying Kessel is such. Yes, top twenty in scoring in the NHL at the age of 18 and not much help offensively (or even defensively) speaking from the rest of his team.

I think it's fair to say that Kessel has alot of growing up to do mentally and phyically before he's able to do well at the next level. A year or two more of college under Lucia would probably do him a world of good. He's a very talented player who needs to refine his strengths, work on his weaknesses, and expand his repetoire. He'll probably need a healthy dose of humility as well.

 

[Prof_it]

I think it's fair to say that Kessel has alot of growing up to do mentally and phyically before he's able to do well at the next level. A year or two more of college under Lucia would probably due him a world of good.

I agree...I think if you talk to most college hockey fans that have seen the Gophers play they would tell you that they've seen his game mature this year.

I saw Kessel as a Bantam. He dominated with his speed and in/out drag move (probably why he still overuses it today). At that level, he did not need to develop the other aspects of his game. He simply blew around people.

Now, against players that are closer to his skill he needs to adapt. He's a different player today than he was at the beginning of the college hockey season. Hopefully his game will continue to progress.