Player Discussion: Kent Johnson

[majormajor]

Panarin's rookie season was also Kane's highest point total of his career and only topped once a few years later and is still his highest goal scoring season. It was pretty mutually beneficial and certainly helped Panarin adjust to the NHL but we will never know what thry would have been like when Panarin really realized how good he was.

In their first year that line only outscored opponents 40-33 at 5v5 and then 33-24 the following year. Not much different than their team average goal differentials. Panarin without Kane the following year in Columbus was 32-21 with some combination of the rookie PLD and Atkinson/Anderson, and then 50-37 the following year. I think Kane and Panarin would have added up to more on separate lines.

It's possible that Gaudreau and KJ would work differently, maybe they would unlock more space for each other, I'm not sure. But I tend to put Fantilli/Carlsson with Gaudreau and have KJ centering the other top unit.

 

[VT]

The question is whether Fantilli and Carlsson have the character to lead the team, or players who disappear at important moments. See Toronto players. Only a team for which the goal is to play in the PO might want Marner.

 

[VT]

And why not make 3 offensive lines? Otherwise we can't fit all the players.

 

[majormajor]

The question is whether Fantilli and Carlsson have the character to lead the team, or players who disappear at important moments. See Toronto players. Only a team for which the goal is to play in the PO might want Marner.

They both seem like they'd be great players to have for playoff battles.

And why not make 3 offensive lines? Otherwise we can't fit all the players.

Sure. Perhaps we'll have all of Laine, KJ, and Fantilli/Carlsson centering different lines.

Although personally I think having a big minute matchup unit like Danault's line or Gourde's line would be even better. Perhaps some combination of Voronkov, Texier, Jenner, Danforth, etc... can fill those roles for us.

It seems like many of us use "scoring line" differently though. Danault's line and Gourde's line both scored plenty so maybe that counts as a scoring line.

 

[CBJx614]

The question is whether Fantilli and Carlsson have the character to lead the team, or players who disappear at important moments. See Toronto players. Only a team for which the goal is to play in the PO might want Marner.

One of the top guys from NHL Central scouting said that he agreed with Carlssons comparison of himself to Barkov, especially in Carlssons ability to perform under pressure in big time moments.

They both seem like they'd be great players to have for playoff battles.



Sure. Perhaps we'll have all of Laine, KJ, and Fantilli/Carlsson centering different lines.

Although personally I think having a big minute matchup unit like Danault's line or Gourde's line would be even better. Perhaps some combination of Voronkov, Texier, Jenner, Danforth, etc... can fill those roles for us.

It seems like many of us use "scoring line" differently though. Danault's line and Gourde's line both scored plenty so maybe that counts as a scoring line.

In that situation when I think of a "scoring" line I just think of someone who isn't a liability in the offensive zone and can produce if needed. Even our 4th line wasn't a liability, they were good at creating energy in the offensive zone just not so much at doing anything with the puck.

 

[MoeBartoli]

And why not make 3 offensive lines? Otherwise we can't fit all the players.

Although personally I think having a big minute matchup unit like Danault's line or Gourde's line would be even better. Perhaps some combination of Voronkov, Texier, Jenner, Danforth, etc... can fill those roles for us.

i think three scoring lines is a plus and highly desirable but one of those three has to have some defensive strength. Otherwise you end up overplaying the Kuraly line, something I don’t want us to repeat. The combo of 4 MM cites - especially if Boone was in that group - would accomplish both scoring and some defensive strength (Ironically I say Boone because of offense more than defense though his face off ability is also a plus).

 

[VT]

They both seem like they'd be great players to have for playoff battles.



Sure. Perhaps we'll have all of Laine, KJ, and Fantilli/Carlsson centering different lines.

Although personally I think having a big minute matchup unit like Danault's line or Gourde's line would be even better. Perhaps some combination of Voronkov, Texier, Jenner, Danforth, etc... can fill those roles for us.

It seems like many of us use "scoring line" differently though. Danault's line and Gourde's line both scored plenty so maybe that counts as a scoring line.

Dalibor Dvorský is compared to Philip Danault. I know we won't draft him, but he's Slovak, so I couldn't forgive myself for mentioning him.

 

[majormajor]

Dalibor Dvorský is compared to Philip Danault. I know we won't draft him, but he's Slovak, so I couldn't forgive myself for mentioning him.

I can sort of see that but I think we're successful at projecting elite defensive ability about 0% of the time, so I don't take it too seriously.

 

[VT]

I can sort of see that but I think we're successful at projecting elite defensive ability about 0% of the time, so I don't take it too seriously.

I think his draft is like the utopian novels of Ivan Yefremov or Isaac Asimov. He's just Slovak so I mentioned him because he is compared to Danault. Similar like how Russian would mention of Daniil But.

Although Jarmo is able to draft everyone...

 

[CBJx614]

 

[CBJx614]

Was gonna put this in the KJ thread but noticed it was closed?



30 pts in 4 games, pencil him as an NHL superstar

 

[VT]

Before Babcock I thought 1C. Now I'm not sure if he isn't W.

 

[majormajor]

Before Babcock I thought 1C. Now I'm not sure if he isn't W.

For this year, I'd agree that he's now less likely to play center. It will take more than one offseason for him to build up the strength.

But I don't think there is any expiration date on when KJ can slide over to center. He has the natural intelligence for the two way game up the middle (he's nothing like Zegras). I still expect him to play center eventually.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Datsyuk enter the league as a winger and Babs put him at center later in his career?

 

[stevo61]

For this year, I'd agree that he's now less likely to play center. It will take more than one offseason for him to build up the strength.

But I don't think there is any expiration date on when KJ can slide over to center. He has the natural intelligence for the two way game up the middle (he's nothing like Zegras). I still expect him to play center eventually.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Datsyuk enter the league as a winger and Babs put him at center later in his career?

I think Zetterberg was also but to be fair Yzerman, Federov and group were still on the roselter so that could be why

 

[VT]

For this year, I'd agree that he's now less likely to play center. It will take more than one offseason for him to build up the strength.

But I don't think there is any expiration date on when KJ can slide over to center. He has the natural intelligence for the two way game up the middle (he's nothing like Zegras). I still expect him to play center eventually.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Datsyuk enter the league as a winger and Babs put him at center later in his career?

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that when he was with Zetterberg in their line he was playing wing. But Datsyuk was an extraordinary player, for/backchecking were perfect, the take the puck and transition ideal, similar like skill, the incredible IQ, the hockey vision. Johnson will never be like him. I think he and Sergei Fedorov are the best players of Russia. Not Ovechkin, Malkin, Larionov or Bure. Although Larionov's skill and hockey vision, IQ were genial too.

 

[EspenK]

Given that Babcock started Matthews on the 3rd line (and kept him there all year?) what do you think he does here with the development of KJ as a C?
Granted the situation in Toronto was different but I get the feeling he wouldn't be comfortable having the top 2 Cs be Fantilli & KJ.
If he doesn't move/try KJ at C this year will he try again next year?
Thoughts?

 

[NotCommitted]

Given that Babcock started Matthews on the 3rd line (and kept him there all year?) what do you think he does here with the development of KJ as a C?
Granted the situation in Toronto was different but I get the feeling he wouldn't be comfortable having the top 2 Cs be Fantilli & KJ.
If he doesn't move/try KJ at C this year will he try again next year?
Thoughts?

Matthews rookie season 15:09 EV TOI per game... that's not 3rd line minutes, not even close. Top50 for forwards in EV TOI. Laine had 15:10 that season and he played a lot in the 1st line. I think neither was in the #1PP since rookies and you gotta "earn it" So they all situation TOI was something over 17min a game.

EDIT: hmm scratch the comments about no #1PP, Matthews lead Toronto for all forwards for PP TOI / GP and Laine was 3rd for Winnipeg. I could've sworn Laine played most of the season in PP2.

 

[alphafox]

Given that Babcock started Matthews on the 3rd line (and kept him there all year?) what do you think he does here with the development of KJ as a C?
Granted the situation in Toronto was different but I get the feeling he wouldn't be comfortable having the top 2 Cs be Fantilli & KJ.
If he doesn't move/try KJ at C this year will he try again next year?
Thoughts?

I think it depends on how the wings show up and perform in camp. If between Tex, Foudy, Marchenko, Chinakov, Voronkov we find a few wingers who are capable of playing a top-six role I think Boone remains at #1 until someone takes the spot. KJ Takes the #2 C spot and Fatilli goes #3 and we roll 3 lines and as KJ and Fantilli pass Jenner on the depth chart we shift the focus of the lines. Out of camp that probably looks something like this.

Gaudreau-Jenner-Marchenko
Laine-KJ-Chinakov
Foudy-Fantilli-Texier

It does look like Fantilli is at his best with a Brindley-type creator on his line, which means he's best paired with Johnny Hockey or with KJ. Personally, I'd like to see us try a Fantilli-KJ 1-2 punch but it is giving a lot of responsibility and privilege to a rookie to stick him on the top line while simultaneously having KJ make the move to Center.

Gaudreau-Fantilli-Marchenko
Laine-KJ-Chinakov

 

[ClevelandJacketFan]

I'm still not sold that KJ's best spot is at center, personally

 

[thebus88]

I think Zetterberg was also but to be fair Yzerman, Federov and group were still on the roselter so that could be why

Well, we have Jenner-Laine, so it’s similar.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

We have like one forward on the roster whose for-sure position is center (and half of us don't think he's any good, but whatever). Then there are like 5-6 guys who might be centers or could be centers or project as centers maybe kinda in the future. There's certainly no consensus here as to who the guys playing center should be.

I mean, I have thoughts but they're certainly not fixed, and I'm willing to just leave it be until NHCMB gets them in camp and implements a system (presumably) and he gives some of those guys a shot based on what he thinks will best suit how he wants the team to play and then makes any needed adjustments from there.

On topic to this thread specifically, I like the thought of playing KJ at center this year, but I'm hardly sold on or stuck on the idea.

 

[EspenK]

We have like one forward on the roster whose for-sure position is center (and half of us don't think he's any good, but whatever). Then there are like 5-6 guys who might be centers or could be centers or project as centers maybe kinda in the future. There's certainly no consensus here as to who the guys playing center should be.

On topic to this thread specifically, I like the thought of playing KJ at center this year, but I'm hardly sold on or stuck on the idea.

I agree better to learn sooner rather than later if he is (or at last potentially is) the other top 6 C going forward or is he better suited as a W. Either way he is a top 6 guy but the question of him as a C needs to be answered as soon as possible.

 

[Marioesque]

EDIT: hmm scratch the comments about no #1PP, Matthews lead Toronto for all forwards for PP TOI / GP and Laine was 3rd for Winnipeg. I could've sworn Laine played most of the season in PP2.

Laine started in first line and PP1, he was very effective (he had 2 or 3 hattricks in first 14 games) and was running away with Calder so Jets put him on the LD position in PP and that stopped the one-timer threat, put him in 2nd line and basically stopped his Calder run. The concussion happened, Jets were out of playoff hopes. I think they calculated extension cost for a player who starts at 18 years old and scores 50 in first season and they really didn't want to deal with that.

Kid was leading the league in points per game for about 2 month period around xmas before they dropped his icetime and opportunity. Then he got concussed leading the rookie scoring and Jets scoring. Never seen that sort of sandbagging before and I hope I never will again. Great way of alienating your new player

 

[CBJx614]

Still at it

 

[Stubu]

Hah! It's so easy to select 2C now. (Did I? not sure.) That said, unknown who there needs some time as winger. But it should help having a hard-ass coach and structure, system, identity as a team.