Ken Holland will Not Return to the Oilers

[Pizza!Pizza!]

Unless something juicy happens this weekend, I would prefer Holland comes back to Detroit over Yzerman remaining as GM. I have more impressed with Holland's moves in EDM than what Yzerman has done in Detroit.

EDIT: To make this post more Oilers centric, given I'm on your boards --- I hope the best for you guys, but there will also be a silver lining if all of the Holland haters have to endure another Chiapet tier GM. 'grass is always greener' - you won't really be able to judge Holland's tenure until the book closes on his replacement.

 

[Oilhawks]

Unless something juicy happens this weekend, I would prefer Holland comes back to Detroit over Yzerman remaining as GM. I have more impressed with Holland's moves in EDM than what Yzerman has done in Detroit.

EDIT: To make this post more Oilers centric, given I'm on your boards --- I hope the best for you guys, but there will also be a silver lining if all of the Holland haters have to endure another Chiapet tier GM. 'grass is always greener' - you won't really be able to judge Holland's tenure until the book closes on his replacement.

Not a fan of the 5 Year....I mean 10 Year Yzerplan?

Don't think they bungle this GM hire but there will be a lot of "see how much better this GM is?!" type of posts while the novelty is there and the reality being that GM has both good and bad like most others including Holland while he was here

 

[tiger_80]

Did Holland have a choice to return? Lol

Need at least one top 6 winger that can actually carry a puck and make plays. Can't have all one and done guys that can't pass. Makes it too easy to tackle McDavid when the refs put the whistles away.

Need to fix the D. Lots of dif ways to do it, but we had 2 pairs that were liabilities and too many D that sucked at puck moving almost all playoffs. Knob pulled off miracles with systems and moving D around to compensate for this weak sauce group, but wasn't enough in the end.

Goaltending might be figured out. Really would be great to get 4M (when buried) off the books for that ECHL goalie we are carrying around.

Big work for the next GM especially with a 3.5M cap penalty to burn almost all the increase. This GM hire is everything now for the last prime years of McDrai. Multiple winning trades are likely needed to fix this roster so we actually confidently get through a regular season and ensure if that game 7 happens again, it is at home and not in a sea of slush.

I think they will have to retool. Draisaitl probably walks in free agency. Nurse needs to be moved.

 

[WaitingForUser]

I think they will have to retool. Draisaitl probably walks in free agency. Nurse needs to be moved.

We are not letting Leon walk to FA he either has deal this summer or he is traded

 

[Oilhawks]

I think they will have to retool. Draisaitl probably walks in free agency. Nurse needs to be moved.

Nope. He 100% gets traded for a haul if he does not intend to re-sign

 

[TheNumber4]

Unless something juicy happens this weekend, I would prefer Holland comes back to Detroit over Yzerman remaining as GM. I have more impressed with Holland's moves in EDM than what Yzerman has done in Detroit.

EDIT: To make this post more Oilers centric, given I'm on your boards --- I hope the best for you guys, but there will also be a silver lining if all of the Holland haters have to endure another Chiapet tier GM. 'grass is always greener' - you won't really be able to judge Holland's tenure until the book closes on his replacement.

Damn. After years and years of telling us Holland would be bad. Now you making us want Holland back lol.

 

[tiger_80]

Nope. He 100% gets traded for a haul if he does not intend to re-sign

So he would have to get traded already this summer. Can you imagine the new GM trading Draisaitl after losing in game 7 of the Stanley Cup final? That's the Pronger type of trade. And if the team struggles, McDavid may not want to re-sign either.

 

[Oilhawks]

So he would have to get traded already this summer. Can you imagine the new GM trading Draisaitl after losing in game 7 of the Stanley Cup final? That's the Pronger type of trade. And if the team struggles, McDavid may not want to re-sign either.

Entirely different circumstances. And you absolutely do not let a valuable asset walk for nothing.

It's a moot point anyways, this hand-wringing Pronger PTSD is laughable. He's going to re-sign

 

[oobga]

I think they will have to retool. Draisaitl probably walks in free agency. Nurse needs to be moved.

Drai leaving would hurt a lot. Can't even bring myself to believing it'll happen.

All hopes and dreams in the hands of Jackson right now.

 

[rec28]

Nope. He 100% gets traded for a haul if he does not intend to re-sign

He means so much to the team and he’s more than earned the right to get paid, but it would be devastating to lose him for nothing. Even with a single year remaining on his current deal he would return a near king’s ransom. This team is so bereft of picks and futures and his departure will be such a blow to the franchise that you simply can’t let him go without anything in return. I’m confident that he’ll resign - perhaps for a shorter term - but JJ needs to be prepared to do what is necessary for the future of the franchise if negotiations go sideways.

 

[Pizza!Pizza!]

Damn. After years and years of telling us Holland would be bad. Now you making us want Holland back lol.

haha. i was never one of those idiots that complained about him. yes he made some horrible moves in Detroit, yes some of his gambles did not pay off, but he scouted, built and maintained the winningest team in the NHL for 25 years. The Wings would have been even more successful if Devallano had listened to Holland more before Holland became GM (Holland was going to draft Pavel Bure and Devallano overruled him among other missed opportunities).

Holland has always been the patient/cautious type, so he's always frustrated the impatient - EA Sports armchair GM types. However, having read a lot of Holland's interviews - he does acknowledge and learn from his mistakes. There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes which drives most of the head scratching moments (this applies to ALL GMs). Just look at all the threads on this boards over the past 5 years (main boards) about all of the players signed to 'franchise crippling boat anchor long term big money immovable contracts' that within 3 years were off the books with minimal consequences or in the case of Bobrovsky - suddenly a good value. There is a good ol' boys club with the GMs around the league and if you 'win' every trade then pretty soon people stop returning your calls. That's why every GM has good/bad trades in their catalog, they throw each other bones and bail each other out - there's a lot of deals with "Future Considerations" where they are not officially listed in the trade ledger. Free Agency is the same way, some (ignorant) fans think that it's merely money and term - so its a simple thing for a GM to 'just go get' whatever player they 'need' - but unlike the EA games you have to contend with players/families and where they want to live/play - not just $ and term. Then you have situations like the Kuemper year --- fans wanted him since he was the 'best goalie available', but Colorado paid a very high price for him and if Holland had outbid that he'd have been run out of town. I know the Avs won the Cup that year, but it was no thanks to Kuemper's mediocracy and they moved on from him pretty quickly. If EDM had dumped all of their futures and cap into Kuemper, Skinner would still be their best goalie and they wouldnt have had the assets to bring in the depth and defense pieces which ultimately led to the Western Conference Championship.


TLR - Old man yells at cloud, GMKH is smarter than zoomer HF posters and the real world is not a video game.

 

[Oilhawks]

He means so much to the team and he’s more than earned the right to get paid, but it would be devastating to lose him for nothing. Even with a single year remaining on his current deal he would return a near king’s ransom. This team is so bereft of picks and futures and his departure will be such a blow to the franchise that you simply can’t let him go without anything in return. I’m confident that he’ll resign - perhaps for a shorter term - but JJ needs to be prepared to do what is necessary for the future of the franchise if negotiations go sideways.

Yeah, Chris Johnston said that if Leon is traded it would be for a haul. Anyone thinking otherwise is out to lunch. And he isn't some mercenary like Pronger, if Leon truly wants out, he will work with the Oilers to find a suitable partner. He only has a year left anyhow, so if they traded him to a place that wasn't his first choice he could sign elsewhere anyhow. I could see a top 6 FW / top 4D on a good contract, excellent prospect and picks being the starting price

Either way, I don't see him walking unless he's adamant about trying to "be the guy" somewhere else. He knows this team is one of his best shots to win a Cup, and the other contenders would have to lose quality players to fit him on

 

[tiger_80]

Yeah, Chris Johnston said that if Leon is traded it would be for a haul. Anyone thinking otherwise is out to lunch. And he isn't some mercenary like Pronger, if Leon truly wants out, he will work with the Oilers to find a suitable partner. He only has a year left anyhow, so if they traded him to a place that wasn't his first choice he could sign elsewhere anyhow. I could see a top 6 FW / top 4D on a good contract, excellent prospect and picks being the starting price

Either way, I don't see him walking unless he's adamant about trying to "be the guy" somewhere else. He knows this team is one of his best shots to win a Cup, and the other contenders would have to lose quality players to fit him on

He will return nice assets. not sure how much, but probably the other team's best prospect, a young roster player, a couple of 1sts. and of course cap space that could be used to sign an established player in free agency. So let's say if the Oilers were trading for Draisaitl, it would be something like RNH, Broberg, two firsts. Then sign somebody like Henrique in free agency.

 

[Porkleaker]

If Leon wants to leave, I don't think he does. But then again it's all about the numbers. He's been one of the best contracts in the NHL and underpaid for some time, despite what the Leafs fans think. Though, it all depends if they're going to build a winning culture and realize they might get paid less to do it.

 

[WaitingForUser]

haha. i was never one of those idiots that complained about him. yes he made some horrible moves in Detroit, yes some of his gambles did not pay off, but he scouted, built and maintained the winningest team in the NHL for 25 years. The Wings would have been even more successful if Devallano had listened to Holland more before Holland became GM (Holland was going to draft Pavel Bure and Devallano overruled him among other missed opportunities).

Holland has always been the patient/cautious type, so he's always frustrated the impatient - EA Sports armchair GM types. However, having read a lot of Holland's interviews - he does acknowledge and learn from his mistakes. There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes which drives most of the head scratching moments (this applies to ALL GMs). Just look at all the threads on this boards over the past 5 years (main boards) about all of the players signed to 'franchise crippling boat anchor long term big money immovable contracts' that within 3 years were off the books with minimal consequences or in the case of Bobrovsky - suddenly a good value. There is a good ol' boys club with the GMs around the league and if you 'win' every trade then pretty soon people stop returning your calls. That's why every GM has good/bad trades in their catalog, they throw each other bones and bail each other out - there's a lot of deals with "Future Considerations" where they are not officially listed in the trade ledger. Free Agency is the same way, some (ignorant) fans think that it's merely money and term - so its a simple thing for a GM to 'just go get' whatever player they 'need' - but unlike the EA games you have to contend with players/families and where they want to live/play - not just $ and term. Then you have situations like the Kuemper year --- fans wanted him since he was the 'best goalie available', but Colorado paid a very high price for him and if Holland had outbid that he'd have been run out of town. I know the Avs won the Cup that year, but it was no thanks to Kuemper's mediocracy and they moved on from him pretty quickly. If EDM had dumped all of their futures and cap into Kuemper, Skinner would still be their best goalie and they wouldnt have had the assets to bring in the depth and defense pieces which ultimately led to the Western Conference Championship.


TLR - Old man yells at cloud, GMKH is smarter than zoomer HF posters and the real world is not a video game.

Edmonton had a deal in place for Koskinen and a switch of first rounders at noon. By 3pm Colorado upped the price after lose their Goalie to Seattle.

 

[Pizza!Pizza!]

Edmonton had a deal in place for Koskinen and a switch of first rounders at noon. By 3pm Colorado upped the price after lose their Goalie to Seattle.

so then are blaming the other GM for not signing off while he shopped for a better deal or Kenny for not upping the ante after Colorado overpaid?

 

[TheNumber4]

haha. i was never one of those idiots that complained about him. yes he made some horrible moves in Detroit, yes some of his gambles did not pay off, but he scouted, built and maintained the winningest team in the NHL for 25 years. The Wings would have been even more successful if Devallano had listened to Holland more before Holland became GM (Holland was going to draft Pavel Bure and Devallano overruled him among other missed opportunities).

Holland has always been the patient/cautious type, so he's always frustrated the impatient - EA Sports armchair GM types. However, having read a lot of Holland's interviews - he does acknowledge and learn from his mistakes. There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes which drives most of the head scratching moments (this applies to ALL GMs). Just look at all the threads on this boards over the past 5 years (main boards) about all of the players signed to 'franchise crippling boat anchor long term big money immovable contracts' that within 3 years were off the books with minimal consequences or in the case of Bobrovsky - suddenly a good value. There is a good ol' boys club with the GMs around the league and if you 'win' every trade then pretty soon people stop returning your calls. That's why every GM has good/bad trades in their catalog, they throw each other bones and bail each other out - there's a lot of deals with "Future Considerations" where they are not officially listed in the trade ledger. Free Agency is the same way, some (ignorant) fans think that it's merely money and term - so its a simple thing for a GM to 'just go get' whatever player they 'need' - but unlike the EA games you have to contend with players/families and where they want to live/play - not just $ and term. Then you have situations like the Kuemper year --- fans wanted him since he was the 'best goalie available', but Colorado paid a very high price for him and if Holland had outbid that he'd have been run out of town. I know the Avs won the Cup that year, but it was no thanks to Kuemper's mediocracy and they moved on from him pretty quickly. If EDM had dumped all of their futures and cap into Kuemper, Skinner would still be their best goalie and they wouldnt have had the assets to bring in the depth and defense pieces which ultimately led to the Western Conference Championship.


TLR - Old man yells at cloud, GMKH is smarter than zoomer HF posters and the real world is not a video game.

Good post. Thanks for your feedback. I will say my impression of Holland has gone up and down throughout these years, but at the end of it I'm skewed towards the positive. Hard to argue with the results when you see his team build make it to Game 7 of the SCFs.

 

[oobga]

Good post. Thanks for your feedback. I will say my impression of Holland has gone up and down throughout these years, but at the end of it I'm skewed towards the positive. Hard to argue with the results when you see his team build make it to Game 7 of the SCFs.

Owes Jackson a beer for saving his legacy here. He made 2 weak coach picks, and didn't really deserve a 3rd, glad someone else did it for him. And thanks to McDavid and Bouch putting up 2 of the best playoff performances in decades, and likely that won't be repeated (we still need a better team).

Hopefully on to a GM that can manage the cap and can actually fix the D and wings now. And maybe our first division win in forever.

 

[WaitingForUser]

so then are blaming the other GM for not signing off while he shopped for a better deal or Kenny for not upping the ante after Colorado overpaid?

We aren’t blaming anyone. At least I’m not. KH went after every big name goalie he could while he was here. Holtby no go Markstrom went the flames. Kuemper didn’t want to pay the extra first (understandable he was often injured) settled on Smith and then Campbell it is what is. Just pointing out he tried hard on the goalie front his entire time here.

 

[TheNumber4]

Owes Jackson a beer for saving his legacy here. He made 2 weak coach picks, and didn't really deserve a 3rd, glad someone else did it for him. And thanks to McDavid and Bouch putting up 2 of the best playoff performances in decades, and likely that won't be repeated (we still need a better team).

Hopefully on to a GM that can manage the cap and can actually fix the D and wings now. And maybe our first division win in forever.

Hmm that's true. Knob saved his ass. This season doesn't happen without Knob.

 

[oobga]

Hmm that's true. Knob saved his ass. This season doesn't happen without Knob.

Knob working around the terrible RHD he had was brilliance. His cries for help all season demoting Ceci went unheard too. Oh well though, we still had fun. Really need a strong regular season AND playoffs now. We could have actually pulled it off if game 7 was at home. We paid for the start at the very end, but also the start gave us Knob! These kinds of give and takes and working around obvious flaws in the team/coaching really need to end now so we can actually confidently work through a year looking like a true contender.

 

[TheNumber4]

Knob working around the terrible RHD he had was brilliance. His cries for help all season demoting Ceci went unheard too. Oh well though, we still had fun. Really need a strong regular season AND playoffs now. We could have actually pulled it off if game 7 was at home. We paid for the start at the very end, but also the start gave us Knob! These kinds of give and takes and working around obvious flaws in the team/coaching really need to end now so we can actually confidently work through a year looking like a true contender.

Get home ice advantage. Get rid of some dead weight and guys that hurt us and we'll lift the Cup next year.

 

[sportsdynasty]

His best moves were Hyman and Ekholm. But he did Chiarelli-type moves with the Nurse, Campbell and Kane contracts. We can do better than Holland. Hope Jackson finds someone better.

 

[Chet Manley]

My favourite thing about Holland is that he was patient in sticking with Bouchard and Broberg. Chiarelli would have traded them as a last gasp in holding onto his job. At the start of the season, I personally didn't see either of them playing up to how they did in the playoffs.