Ken Dryden vs. Dominik Hasek

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Then, you can also look at the back-up goalies behind Dryden: 'Bunny' Larocque went 96-18-18 during the years he backed-up Dryden. I repeat, the back-up goalie went 96-18-18 (!!!) for five seasons while backing-up Dryden. Now, sure, it was the 1970s and Larocque probably faced a lot of crappy teams,

That's an understatement.

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Larocque's average opponent was regularly between 0.36 goals/game and 0.61 goals/game below average - things didn't even get close to Dryden until even the latter's final year, but even then it was a significant difference between the schedules played by the two goalies - one of the larger starter/backup differences that I've seen across a single year, let alone one that persists across seasons.

Just look at Larocque's typical schedule:
 
That's an understatement.

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Larocque's average opponent was regularly between 0.36 goals/game and 0.61 goals/game below average - things didn't even get close to Dryden until even the latter's final year, but even then it was a significant difference between the schedules played by the two goalies - one of the larger starter/backup differences that I've seen across a single year, let alone one that persists across seasons.

Just look at Larocque's typical schedule:
Right, agreed. And it wasn't like Larocque had a superb save percentage. During those 5 seasons he backed-up Dryden, Larocque had the 8th-best save percentage in the NHL of goalies who appeared in 50+ games (only 33 goalies played 100+ games that half-decade). That's quite good for the #2 goalie, but it's not amazing considering his fabulous team and the weak competition he faced... while Dryden had the #1 save percentage during that span.

Nevertheless, Larocque's being 8th best kind of underscores my point about Dryden's favorable position. As far as I can see, Larocque's save percentage is still better than any other back-up goalie in the NHL during that time.
 
Hard to bet against Hasek in any goalie debate but I loved Dryden. He's in my personal Mt. Rushmore of NHL goaltenders for sure...

Hasek
Roy
Dryden
Brodeur
 
Hasek and its not close.

Dryden had a giant weakness, his side-to-side movement.
It didn't hinder him much in the NHL because of the 1970s style of game, but he was regularly exposed when playing the Soviets’ east/west style.
Afaik, the Buffalo Sabres also drove Dryden crazy for the same reason.
 
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Hasek and Dryden are each a product of their times, just like today's goalies. Send a goalie from today back in time and nobody would score, that's how vast the evolution has been at the position. It's circular tho, you can say give the old players fancy sticks and skates, etc. So you can't just compare apples with apples between these two.

Hasek wasn't just acrobatic, athletic, but his was a style evolution in the sense that he worked with Corsi and his dmen to push shooters to seemingly attractive spots, which were really medium danger and fully in his wheelhouse. So, yes he played on a weak team in a loaded salary era, but they had an edge on other teams in their systems play which allowed them to level the playing field.

Dryden was also an evolution because shooters had never seen anyone that big be so quick on his feet. He was probably best on the ground, even tho he played mostly a standup style. Also, the 70s were a watered down expansion era and the Canadiens were a stacked team.

Today's goalies are another leap even from Hasek. They have to face 23 guys who can all shoot the puck with no release and get called garbage even if their defense gives up a barrage of high danger shots (we're currently in a high offense era). Most of these goalies today are stellar commpared to the proto guys.

In 20 years the position will evolve again and they'll come up with another way to cover the net or a system that will push shooters away from the high danger areas. Or the dmen will get bigger again and be even more athletic. Something new will happen, and those goalies will surpass Price, Shesterkin and whoever you currently have at the top of your list.

So, yes Hasek was better, but it's relative to era. That's how I see it.
 
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The ex-Tesla goalie wins this debate.

He's Top 4 all time
(Others are two goalies with Ukrainian names and a goaltender with a French name)
 
Hasek and Dryden are each a product of their times, just like today's goalies. Send a goalie from today back in time and nobody would score, that's how vast the evolution has been at the position. It's circular tho, you can say give the old players fancy sticks and skates, etc. So you can't just compare apples with apples between these two.

Hasek wasn't just acrobatic, athletic, but his was a style evolution in the sense that he worked with Corsi and his dmen to push shooters to seemingly attractive spots, which were really medium danger and fully in his wheelhouse. So, yes he played on a weak team in a loaded salary era, but they had an edge on other teams in their systems play which allowed them to level the playing field.

Dryden was also an evolution because shooters had never seen anyone that big be so quick on his feet. He was probably best on the ground, even tho he played mostly a standup style. Also, the 70s were a watered down expansion era and the Canadiens were a stacked team.

Today's goalies are another leap even from Hasek. They have to face 23 guys who can all shoot the puck with no release and get called garbage even if their defense gives up a barrage of high danger shots (we're currently in a high offense era). Most of these goalies today are stellar commpared to the proto guys.

In 20 years the position will evolve again and they'll come up with another way to cover the net or a system that will push shooters away from the high danger areas. Or the dmen will get bigger again and be even more athletic. Something new will happen, and those goalies will surpass Price, Shesterkin and whoever you currently have at the top of your list.

So, yes Hasek was better, but it's relative to era. That's how I see it.
I genuinely believe Hasek would be the greatest goalie in any era, as his strongest trait was simply finding a way to make it work. He didn't subscribe to the dogma of the time, didn't care about how the position *should* be played, he just did whatever he needed to do to keep the puck out of his net, and he did that better than anybody.
 
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I genuinely believe Hasek would be the greatest goalie in any era, as his strongest trait was simply finding a way to make it work. He didn't subscribe to the dogma of the time, didn't care about how the position *should* be played, he just did whatever he needed to do to keep the puck out of his net, and he did that better than anybody.
Hard to know. The game changes all the time also. Now it's better to be big, deep and quiet since the shooters can all get the puck off so quickly and accurately with heat. They would exploit his overplaying of the puck now. But he had an innate HUNGER to stop the puck and you need that. Also, Saros is only 5'11" and he's excellent, so I agree with you. Hasek was a rubberband, and you need that too. And nobody has ever had a better blocker I don't think.

Dryden also would have been taught to play the profly style today and use his height to better advantage. No more standing up like a mannequin. He also no doubt would have been excellent today because he had quick feet, strong legs, and again, was 6'4".

Apples and oranges.
 
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In a sense... this contrast defines greatness.

Dryden set NCAA records, backstopped a dynasty, then retired early at age 31 - as abruptly as Barry Sanders did in the NFL two decades later.


Hasek impressed and represented Czechoslovakia in multiple Canada Cups before his mid-career debut in the NHL in Chicago, stonewalling Mario, frustrating goalie coach Tretiak, and getting jettisoned to lowly Buffalo, where his greatness shone.

This night happened:


These two are pure diamonds, as hard edge as they come, one left early, the other arrived late.
 
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I will say this about Ken Dryden: Even as a (pseudo-)intellectual myself, engaged in left-wing / academia and working at a university, I find him stuffy and pretentious.

I'm also turned off by his "pose" in the goal-crease from his playing days. I'ts like his affectation was: "Everyone, look at me! I'm not a typical Playboy-reading hockey beer guzzler! I'm a smart, legal-eagle, with a law degree. So, I'll pose like "the thinker" to let everyone know it!"

Kind of weird. I prefer Hasek's zany randomness.
 
I will say this about Ken Dryden: Even as a (pseudo-)intellectual myself, engaged in left-wing / academia and working at a university, I find him stuffy and pretentious.

I'm also turned off by his "pose" in the goal-crease from his playing days. I'ts like his affectation was: "Everyone, look at me! I'm not a typical Playboy-reading hockey beer guzzler! I'm a smart, legal-eagle, with a law degree. So, I'll pose like "the thinker" to let everyone know it!"

Kind of weird. I prefer Hasek's zany randomness.
Dryden has always rubbed many hockey people the wrong way, for several reasons...his (some say boring) speaking style, his non-conservative politics, his anti-fighting stance, maybe his ego, and maybe for his "easy" success, both in playing for perhaps the best hockey team ever, and what he's done since retirement.
 
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