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Value of: Keller

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Dead Coyote

Dead Coyote

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BrawlFan said:
I understand that coyotes fans don’t want him traded. But he won’t be increasingly valuable on the trade front as he ages. And as his contract terms get less and less.

If he and the coyotes are in line that he wants to be around for whatever number of years they plan on rebuilding then he won’t be traded. If he isn’t on board with the plan then he will lose value the longer he isn’t moved.

None of this is earth shattering knowledge.

The offer of 2 1sts and a 2nd and a bottom pair defenceman with top 4 upside isn’t a bad offer if the case is the former. If it’s the latter than still the counter offers are absurd. Yet, it doesn’t matter.

Within 1-2 years Keller either entrenches himself as a coyote for the majority of his career or is moved on the initiative of the team or player.
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Oh no, we might have to trade a 27yo Keller just entering his prime in 1-2 years. He'll be so washed up by then I'm not sure if we can even get a 4th for him. Oh well, I guess we can always just keep him until he's 29 like we did with Hanzal and then trade him. Such a shame that he has no decision about where he can go outside of simply not playing in the NHL until his contract is up. He really has all the leverage in this situation. If he puts up another 86 points or improves he'll truly be unmoveable in 2 years :(
dixie said:
Yotes need players,draft picks take to long to see results so Boston offers Carlo,Debrusk Lysell for Keller,if they want a goalie swap Debrusk for Ullmark or Swayman!
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I think I threw up in my mouth a little for this one.
 
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BrawlFan

BrawlFan

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Dead Coyote said:
Oh no, we might have to trade a 27yo Keller just entering his prime in 1-2 years. He'll be so washed up by then I'm not sure if we can even get a 4th for him. Oh well, I guess we can always just keep him until he's 29 like we did with Hanzal and then trade him. Such a shame that he has no decision about where he can go outside of simply not playing in the NHL until his contract is up. He really has all the leverage in this situation. If he puts up another 86 points or improves he'll truly be unmoveable in 2 years :(

I think I threw up in my mouth a little for this one.
Click to expand...

Look dude if you think his value goes up in 1-2 years as he ages and his contract reduces in years all the power to you. I disagree. I believe whatever value you’re getting for him at 27 is less than now.

He may put up 86 points. He may snap his ankle and never play again. You don’t know. Neither do I.

I stand by my post you quoted. Neither of us are GMs. We can disagree on his value rising.

If Keller is rocketing in 86 points on that Arizona roster then good on you. At the end of the day Arizona is your frustration not me or other teams. It’s your franchise that always trades these guys away. Sens are not that far off. So I understand why there’s pain. I feel it too. It doesn’t change the realities of the difficulties of teams like ours retaining star players. Nor does it change that his value is higher at 25 with 5 years on a contract than 27 with 3. You don’t agree? Fine by me.
 
AslanRH

AslanRH

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Dead Coyote said:
Oh no, we might have to trade a 27yo Keller just entering his prime in 1-2 years. He'll be so washed up by then I'm not sure if we can even get a 4th for him. Oh well, I guess we can always just keep him until he's 29 like we did with Hanzal and then trade him. Such a shame that he has no decision about where he can go outside of simply not playing in the NHL until his contract is up. He really has all the leverage in this situation. If he puts up another 86 points or improves he'll truly be unmoveable in 2 years :(
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Not at all what the post you were replying to implied.
Have a Snickers
 
Dead Coyote

Dead Coyote

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Oct 10, 2017
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BrawlFan said:
Look dude if you think his value goes up in 1-2 years as he ages and his contract reduces in years all the power to you. I disagree. I believe whatever value you’re getting for him at 27 is less than now.

He may put up 86 points. He may snap his ankle and never play again. You don’t know. Neither do I.

I stand by my post you quoted. Neither of us are GMs. We can disagree on his value rising.

If Keller is rocketing in 86 points on that Arizona roster then good on you. At the end of the day Arizona is your frustration not me or other teams. It’s your franchise that always trades these guys away. Sens are not that far off. So I understand why there’s pain. I feel it too. It doesn’t change the realities of the difficulties of teams like ours retaining star players. Nor does it change that his value is higher at 25 with 5 years on a contract than 27 with 3. You don’t agree? Fine by me.
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He's signed long term, our roster is only getting better, as is he, and there's no frustration or pain with him. He's said multiple times that he loves Arizona, wants to stay with us, and thinks we can have a good future. Just because his dad said otherwise on twitter doesn't make it so. Neither one of us knows what he's really thinking.

It's ridiculous that a 24yo 86 point per game player could possible be losing value when he's 27 and still signed long term. If he puts up 100 pts in the next 2 years you think his value is going to go down? That's asinine and insane. His value is very high right now and will continue to be so until 2 years before his contract is up most likely, if not later. Yeah he may break his back and never play again, but if you call up GMBA and say that you won't give him full value because of that you're going to be laughed at. The same is true of every player in the league. Does McDavid have less value because of that?

Players generally enter their prime around 26-28yo and Keller isn't particularly close to that point. He's signed extremely cheaply for a PPG player. If he puts up more than a ppg he may end up being one of the best deals in the league.

2 late 1sts and a bottom 4 defenseman is about the same value as Newhook, Chychrun, Ekholm, Jeannot, etc. There are some other similar deals like PLD and Meier, and the deal you're referring to is probably most similar to the Horvat one in recent memory, who was traded for a 1st, recent 1st round pick, and potentially decent-good player. When he was 28 with one year left after being a mostly not quite PPG player. Last time someone got 2 1sts straight up was Hagel last year.

So no, I don't think that's a good deal, and no I don't think his value will go down in the next 2 years.
 
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BrawlFan

BrawlFan

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Dead Coyote said:
He's signed long term, our roster is only getting better, as is he, and there's no frustration or pain with him. He's said multiple times that he loves Arizona, wants to stay with us, and thinks we can have a good future. Just because his dad said otherwise on twitter doesn't make it so. Neither one of us knows what he's really thinking.

It's ridiculous that a 24yo 86 point per game player could possible be losing value when he's 27 and still signed long term. If he puts up 100 pts in the next 2 years you think his value is going to go down? That's asinine and insane. His value is very high right now and will continue to be so until 2 years before his contract is up most likely, if not later. Yeah he may break his back and never play again, but if you call up GMBA and say that you won't give him full value because of that you're going to be laughed at. The same is true of every player in the league. Does McDavid have less value because of that?

Players generally enter their prime around 26-28yo and Keller isn't particularly close to that point. He's signed extremely cheaply for a PPG player. If he puts up more than a ppg he may end up being one of the best deals in the league.

2 late 1sts and a bottom 4 defenseman is about the same value as Newhook, Chychrun, Ekholm, Jeannot, etc. There are some other similar deals like PLD and Meier, and the deal you're referring to is probably most similar to the Horvat one in recent memory, who was traded for a 1st, recent 1st round pick, and potentially decent-good player. When he was 28 with one year left after being a mostly not quite PPG player. Last time someone got 2 1sts straight up was Hagel last year.

So no, I don't think that's a good deal, and no I don't think his value will go down in the next 2 years.
Click to expand...

I guess we shall see. I think this whole post is going to age poorly
 
Drake1588

Drake1588

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Keller is the kind of asset that the Coyotes need more of, not less. Futures are no longer what they want, just like they're done trading for other teams' cap dumps. They probably want to follow the Ottawa model.

They want good young talent, and ideally team rights for a long term as well. Keller provides both of those things, at a very fair cap hit. Trading him means needing to replace that very same thing. My guess? It would take Tkachuk or Stutzle. I don't think first rounders or prospects move the needle at all.

There's nothing here.

As for whether he has any remorse about the deal he signed, I doubt the Coyotes really care what he thinks about where he wants to play today. He signed a deal, and got security. Now he's going to live with it for five years. Their job is to do the best they can to surround him with talent and improve, but it's not to accede to any future trade request. No one gets a trade-me clause.
 
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Matias Maccete

Matias Maccete

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If this is all it takes for keller all it should take to get Brady Tkachuk is 2 mid to late 1sts, a mid to late 2nd and a young top 4 dman. Let's just acquire Tkachuk instead, I'm sure we can do some pick shuffling with our 1st and all of our 2nds to grab 2 late 1sts. Man this team building stuff is easy.
 
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Drake1588

Drake1588

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BrawlFan said:
So what is the value of Keller if you HAD to trade him. If it’s Ottawa for example would a combo of

1st 24 (detroit/boston)
1st 24 (Ottawa)
2nd 25
Brannstrom

Get it done?

Joseph would have to go back due to salary so you’d take him as well.

What do you think Arizona fans?
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With the passage of time... If you had to trade this star player today, one who is signed through 2028 (and they totally do not), Arizona would probably seek a current star, signed through at least 2028, not futures. Arizona isn't a dumping ground any longer.

They're trying to improve; anyway, I imagine that's the answer. From the Sens, think one of Ottawa's young stars, signed to term, not first rounders and prospects. Not volume either. Quality, one player.
 
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