Keep Tanev or Toffoli?

[Canadian Canuck]

Ferland still affects the cap when the season starts, it's only after the season begins that we will get IR relief.

If Vancouver keeps Tanev, Toffoli, and Markstrom, I'm thinking some huge moves need to be made. They would let Stecher and Leivo walk. They would package Virtanen with Eriksson and maybe add another sweetener. They would trade Sutter, Baertschi, and maybe even Beagle/Roussel with prospects and picks. Even then, I'm not 100% sure the team fits under the cap depending on how much each player re-signs for. Tanev does strike me was the type of guy who will take a slight discount to stay in Vancouver as he seems to really like it here (maybe $1 mill less per year if we're lucky).

That team easily is under the cap.
Tanev and Toffoli will get a lot less than you guys think. I’m thinking 5 million for Tanev on a 3 year deal and around the same for Toffoli. Markstrom should get around 5.75-6?

 

[wetcoast]

Tanev. There is no defencemen in the system that is even close to replacing him. I have no interest in becoming Toronto West.

I like Toffoli, and it's nice to finally have a winger for Horvat. However, we are in a better to replace him internally in a year with Pod, Hoglander and maybe Lind.

Pretty much this and for the people picking Toffoli the question they need to ask is how does our back end look without Tanev.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I think we need to factor Tanev’s contribution to Hughes into the decision. Who plays with Hughes if Tanev walks and how does that impact Hughes’ ability to freelance and drive the play?
In my view signing Tanev is a must. We have no D who can take his place.

 

[MarkMM]

That team easily is under the cap.
Tanev and Toffoli will get a lot less than you guys think. I’m thinking 5 million for Tanev on a 3 year deal and around the same for Toffoli. Markstrom should get around 5.75-6?

That's a lot to go right though, trading Eriksson, Beagle/Roussel, Sutter, Baertschi would of course fix our cap problem, but how likely is that to happen and at what cost to our future?

 

[strattonius]

I originally answered Toffoli but admittedly after watching Tanev's contributions to the playoffs on top of being referred to as the 'heart and soul' of this team I feel as if I want to switch my answer to Tanev.

 

[Canuckle1970]

As good as Tanev is, this is his first healthy season in the NHL. I'd love to resign the healthy Tanev but having him slide back into injury prone Tanev concerns me.

This season was one of the best injury-wise for Tanev (and Edler), and I think that has a lot to do with the tough minutes that Myers took this year. And Myers played in 68 of our 69 regular season games. He may look like a giraffe, but he's a horse when it comes to minute munching.

That reduces the risk of injury a little for Tanev, so let's get him signed.

 

[Hit the post]

This season was one of the best injury-wise for Tanev (and Edler), and I think that has a lot to do with the tough minutes that Myers took this year. And Myers played in 68 of our 69 regular season games. He may look like a giraffe, but he's a horse when it comes to minute munching.

That reduces the risk of injury a little for Tanev, so let's get him signed.

Nope, it had to do with the emergence of Hughes (and of course, finally some kind of *good* luck for Tanev). While Myers wasn't a liability, I wouldn't call him a tough minute muncher.

 

[Canuckle1970]

Nope, it had to do with the emergence of Hughes (and of course, finally some kind of *good* luck for Tanev). While Myers wasn't a liability, I wouldn't call him a tough minute muncher.

Agreed - Hughes emergence had a major impact, especially on offense, but if you didn't have Myers taking some of the tough minutes at 5v5 and on the pk, then we were right back to where we were in previous years - Tanev and Edler overworked and vulnerable to injuries. And they were injured a lot.

 

[PG Canuck]

I didn’t need a Tanev OT winner to know Tanev is far more valuable to this roster than Toffoli.

 

[mouz135]

We’re almost at a 50/50 split. Impressive. I really don’t know who I’d want to keep, as both players bring something to the table that we need

 

[Bankerguy]

I'd let Stecher go or trade him in a package with Demko to either shed a high dollar contract or land some young assets back / picls.

Then, hopefully with LTIR savings from Ferland, we can resign Tanev and Toffoli.

Although i'm not going to lie, my willingness to let the younger Stecher go in favor of oldman Tanev is indeed influenced by the 6 minutes successfully played by 22 year-old Olli Juolevi.

 

[supercanuck]

Tanev's steady presence will be important especially if the team decides to deploy Rathbone/Rafferty/Juolevi as one of our 6 D in 2021.

 

[sting101]

well... this sure changed

 

[elitepete]

Our d would be absolutely atrocious without Tanev. Like pathetically bad. No chance we make the playoffs next year with this d.

Edler-Stecher
Hughes-Myers
Fantenberg-Rafferty
Benn

 

[elitepete]

The problem with Tanev is he is offensively (except for last night) mostly useless. He has never taken a shot that you cannot track from his stick towards the net as it drops to the ice before even getting there. Even if he stops 90% of scoring chances against, he participates in 0% of creating offensive chances. He is the defence equivalent of Jay Beagle. He is just not worth the cost of Toffoli's current contract.

It is irrelevant that he looks great in our end most of the time. He has way more opportunity to look great there, because that is where he always is when we notice him. Same as Beagle. He is rarely doing anything useful when the puck is out of our end. And he only once this year (a recent game) looked useful out of our end. A team of any combination of Tanev's and Beagle's and Erikisson's and Sutter's, which would exceed the cap, could well lose every game they played. Maybe 1-0 losses. But all losses. (Except for last night.)

The object of the game is to score more goals than the other guys, not to be really effective inside your own blue line and let somebody else worry about scoring.

If a defenceman cannot play offence at all, the max he should make is $2 million. If the player is a forward, that drops to the league minimum. You can always find guys with a motor who can't score. Tanev scores a game winner almost every 10 years, so I would be happy to pay him $3,000,000.

We pissed away at least 5 productive Sedin years because we had only 1 offensive line. The plan to shut the Canucks down was easy. Now with Toffoli, we have 2 actual offensive lines. Opposing coaches need to think who will cover our top 6 now, instead of loading up their top 5 against the only line that could threaten to score every shift. I guarantee you no opposing coaches have ever stayed up at night wondering how to neutralize Tanev.

People lining up to give Tanev the money Toffoli now gets and should continue to get (but he will ask for more and may get it somewhere else) should get in line to replace Benning, because they are drinking his Kool-Aid. You are not foundational (whatever the eff that means) because you block shots. What blocking a lot of shots means is you are in your own end way too much. Sutter by the way, several years and injuries (from blocking shots) later, remains the ONLY free agent forward in league history to get over $4 million AAV on a long term contract who never scored over 40 points in a year before (or after for that matter) getting the big money.

Having completed my rant, I agree Tanev is an NHL top 4 or 5 defenceman who any team in the league wouldbe pleased to have on their roster, even if only for the LTIR cap space. He is worth substantially more than the 6 Canucks forwards who are paid so much that our cap is screwed (Beagle, Sutter, Ferland, Errikkson, Rouselle, Baertschi, am I missing anyone?) but Toffoli is not one of them.

This post shows a really bad understanding of hockey. So if a defensemen is elite at defending but brings no offense the most you would pay him is 2mill?

And Tanev isn’t as bad offensively as you’re making it seem. He is good at moving the puck up the ice leading to more offensive zone time and goals even if it doesn’t amount to him getting points. It really isn’t that difficult of a concept to understand.

 

[Bettman Returnz]

Tough one!!

Tanev is our best defensive D. Him paired with Hughes has been money. I do still worry about him staying healthy though.

Toffoli on the other hand sures up our top 6. Makes us a more legit force to be wreckened with.

Wish we could keep both and Markström! Probably at the end of the day it will come down to dollar and cents. But I’d slightly lean towards keeping Tanev. Only reason being is we have Podz and Hoglander coming soon, which could fill TT’s spot in top 6.

 

[Joyride]

Tanev is obviously more valuable to this team for Hughes to have a mentor and security blanket. We haven’t missed a beat without Toffoli and he hasn’t even played with his buddy Pearson and Horvat so that might be a great #2 line but who knows? Eriksson actually makes that line look good so could we see TT with Sutter and Roussell when he gets back?

It’s a foolish question to make a false choice between the two because I think we can sign everyone we need if Ferland is on IR and we just trade away guys like Baertschi, Sutter and Benn who are all on their last year of contract. We can’t afford to trade another high pick just to be rid of Eriksson, but the others are probably moveable if we include late round sweetener picks. If that happens we would have nearly $30M to sign Markstrom ($7M), Tanev ($6M), Toffoli ($6M), Gaudette ($2M), MacEwen ($1M), Motte ($1M), Rafferty/Juolevi ($1.5), have Rathbone at ($1M) and use Ferland’s cap after camp to sign Virtanen and maybe Stecher for $2.5M each. That could work as both are going to what could be a lengthy arbitration and Virtanen won’t be ready for camp anyway!

 

[BB06]

Tanev is obviously more valuable to this team and for Hughes to have a mentor and security blanket. Toffoli hasn’t even played with his buddy Pearson and Horvat so that might be a great #2 line but who knows? Eriksson actually makes that line look good so could we see TT with Sutter and Roussell when he gets back?

It’s a foolish question to make a false choice because I think we can sign everyone we need if Ferland is on IR and we just trade away guys like Baertschi, Sutter and Benn who are all on their last year of contract. We can’t afford to trade another high pick just to be rid of Eriksson, but the others are probably moveable if we include late round sweetener picks. If that happens we would have nearly $30M to sign Markstrom ($7M), Tanev ($6M), Toffoli ($6M), Gaudette ($2M), MacEwen ($1M), Motte ($1M), Rafferty/Juolevi ($1.5), have Rathbone at ($1M) and use Ferland’s cap after camp to sign Virtanen and maybe Stecher for $2.5M each. That could work as both are going to what could be a lengthy arbitration and Virtanen won’t be ready for camp anyway!

This doesn’t work. Sutter/Benn/Sven all expire next year when the big 2 contracts are up. If we get rid of all these guys and sign everyone to contracts where would the money for Hughes and Pettersson come from?

 

[Lupuls Grit]

Tanev

Virtanen and Leivo can fill in as a placeholder until next season where Podkolzin steps in,

I think this is an excellent point. Assuming that Leivo can fully recover from his injury, he was sneaky good this year, plays a hard game, can play anywhere in the top 12 and should be cheap. Toffoli is a luxury the Canucks simply cannot afford.

 

[Lupuls Grit]

Tanev will cost at least as much as Edler. He will have significant leverage, not only because of the number of games he played this year without an injury, not only because of his playoff heroics, but because he is exactly the type of defenceman that so many teams need. Other teams will be clamouring for his services. Look no further than the Leafs. After bombing out yet again and with Morgan Rielly still looking for the right D partner, the Leafs need to switch it up. Tanev is exactly what they need. I expect the Leafs to throw as much money as they can free up to offer him something enticing to "come home" to play for the Blue and White.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

That's a lot to go right though, trading Eriksson, Beagle/Roussel, Sutter, Baertschi would of course fix our cap problem, but how likely is that to happen and at what cost to our future?

Even with Eriksson just being buried in the minors and Sutter and Baertschi traded we should be under no?

 

[VanJack]

One OT goal and this board goes off the deep end on Tanev.

He's had a solid playoff, but his regular season was nothing to write home about. And the odds of both Edler and Tanev remaining healthy for an entire season next year, are in the Lotto 649 range.

So it comes down to a basic choice--$5m-6$m a season with a minimum four year term for either Tanev or Tofoli. Sorry folks, but it's Tofoli in a landslide if those are the numbers.

 

[wetcoast]

Tanev will cost at least as much as Edler. He will have significant leverage, not only because of the number of games he played this year without an injury, not only because of his playoff heroics, but because he is exactly the type of defenceman that so many teams need. Other teams will be clamouring for his services. Look no further than the Leafs. After bombing out yet again and with Morgan Rielly still looking for the right D partner, the Leafs need to switch it up. Tanev is exactly what they need. I expect the Leafs to throw as much money as they can free up to offer him something enticing to "come home" to play for the Blue and White.

The problem with this is that the Leafs don not have any way to free up money as they have way too much invested in their Big 4, for better or worse.

 

[elitepete]

One OT goal and this board goes off the deep end on Tanev.

He's had a solid playoff, but his regular season was nothing to write home about. And the odds of both Edler and Tanev remaining healthy for an entire season next year, are in the Lotto 649 range.

So it comes down to a basic choice--$5m-6$m a season with a minimum four year term for either Tanev or Tofoli. Sorry folks, but it's Tofoli in a landslide if those are the numbers.

Wrong. We need Tanev because of his ability to defend, pair with our franchise D, and the fact that he is SIGNIFICANTLY harder to replace compared to Toffoli. Try to keep up.

 

[MarkMM]

Even with Eriksson just being buried in the minors and Sutter and Baertschi traded we should be under no?

Eriksson in the minors only saves about a million, most of which would be lost again replacing him even with a minimum salary player.

Trading Baertschi and Sutter would certainly help, but again, Sutter might get picked up but Baertschi? We'd have to add to have someone take him off our hands I'd think, maybe even Sutter given the league-wide cap issues, Sutter is useful but is he worth $4M+ with today's cap constraints? What kinds of picks/prospects/young players would it cost us to get rid of them?