Keefe on physicality and grit

[OVO16]

Brayden point…one of Tampas most skilled players drops the gloves with Letang. I’m not saying our skilled guys need to do that but our skilled guys need to show more f**king emotion…even that is a form of toughness to not be afraid, to push back and get angry and hate to lose. We need more of that from our leaders particularly JT who’s robot like. Not almost 40 year old guys like Spezza and sometimes Simmonds

Exactly dude. All of Tampa's "star" players are all feisty and physical and doesnt back down from anyone.

Pointe, Kucherov, Stamkos, Cirelli, Cernak, Hedman. I'm not even gonna talk about their 3rd/4th line guys. There's a reason this team has won back to back cups. They have the perfect amount of Skill/Tenacity to win a cup.

 

[OVO16]

Out of all the current playoff teams, we're currently the softest. And its actually not close either.

This team is practically just begging Simmonds to be their sole leader for any sort of emotion.

 

[OVO16]

I can't even blame dubas tbh. The man has clearly tried to add the Physical element the last few years (even though he's struck out in that department numerous times).

It's the coaching staff that continues to take the emotion out of those players by giving them the "Our Powerplay is our Enforcer" crap

 

[fahad203]

Exactly dude. All of Tampa's "star" players are all feisty and physical and doesnt back down from anyone.

Pointe, Kucherov, Stamkos, Cirelli, Cernak, Hedman. I'm not even gonna talk about their 3rd/4th line guys. There's a reason this team has won back to back cups. They have the perfect amount of Skill/Tenacity to win a cup.

You want to talk about a team?

Cernak was hit earlier in the game. Someone who just came back from head injury. Entire Tampa team took it upon itself for retribution

last year Josh Anderson head hunted Muzzin every game ( we played 9 games against Habs), nobody did anything. Not even our so called tough warrior in Simmonds

Do you know who else did that against us? Calgary

Last year Holl hit Goudreau into the boards. A good hit but a strong hit

Entire Calgary flames and Sutter made sure Matthews got levelled every shift. Tanev made it his business to constantly go after Matthews and so did Mangapane

Cooper and Sutter know a thing about hockey. They do have Stanly Cups

I believe our tough boy Simmonds played that game. Did nothing

 

[mikeyz]

So you have no problem giving everyone $100 if Leafs beat them then....[/QUOTE

If everyone is willing to give me $100 if they lose then sure.

 

[OVO16]

We happen to have 3 of the softest superstars/stars players all on the same team (Mathews/Marner/Nylander). I guess you can add Tavares in that group too.

I dont know how Tampa got so lucky with guys like Kucherov, Point, Cirelli, Stamkos, Sergachecv, Cernak. All those guys look like they're ready to go to war for their teammates. You dont even need guys like Moroon, Goodrow, Coleman, Schenn like they had last year

 

[OVO16]

Its not even about adding 1 or 2 specific guys who play physical. Even though that would help.....it really comes down to just "Team" toughness. We have zero team toughness.

Anytime things start getting rough, Keefe just cowers to Simmonds and asks him to do something lmao. Just pathetic.

What a terrible coaching staff mentality. We're easy 1st rd exitd again

 

[sparxx87]

We happen to have 3 of the softest superstars/stars players all on the same team (Mathews/Marner/Nylander). I guess you can add Tavares in that group too.

I dont know how Tampa got so lucky with guys like Kucherov, Point, Cirelli, Stamkos, Sergachecv, Cernak. All those guys look like they're ready to go to war for their teammates. You dont even need guys like Moroon, Goodrow, Coleman, Schenn like they had last year

It’s a culture. The Leaf culture is inherently soft. Their leader is a privileged beta cuck with no experience in competitive physical sport so it should have been predictable for everyone that the team would take on the same identity.

 

[sparxx87]

 

[DraftSchmaft]

We happen to have 3 of the softest superstars/stars players all on the same team (Mathews/Marner/Nylander). I guess you can add Tavares in that group too.

I dont know how Tampa got so lucky with guys like Kucherov, Point, Cirelli, Stamkos, Sergachecv, Cernak. All those guys look like they're ready to go to war for their teammates. You dont even need guys like Moroon, Goodrow, Coleman, Schenn like they had last year

Half agree half disagree. Tampa pretty much showed the remaining cast can't be "puffy" lmao. Sort of going against this theory if you're going to revert them to their playoff loss state. But yes Tampas core does show up more than ours, so there's the half I do agree.

Anyway, your point does show how out of touch our management is with creating the rest of the roster. Identify your skill guys aren't the "mean" streak of the team and build accordingly. They are easy to take out in the playoffs because Leafs do nothing to dent the other teams attrition.

Regular season, it's easy for super star heavy teams to walk over the league. We have witnessed with our own eyes for decades the game changes in the playoffs and you need balance. Leafs are ahead of their time, zero contact league is probably still 10 years away.

 

[Havoc]

Leafs are ahead of their time, zero contact league is probably still 10 years away.

 

[ToneDog]

I can't even blame dubas tbh. The man has clearly tried to add the Physical element the last few years (even though he's struck out in that department numerous times).

It's the coaching staff that continues to take the emotion out of those players by giving them the "Our Powerplay is our Enforcer" crap

Sure then blame the fanbase as some on this board have said. LOL

 

[weems]

Half agree half disagree. Tampa pretty much showed the remaining cast can't be "puffy" lmao. Sort of going against this theory if you're going to revert them to their playoff loss state. But yes Tampas core does show up more than ours, so there's the half I do agree.

Anyway, your point does show how out of touch our management is with creating the rest of the roster. Identify your skill guys aren't the "mean" streak of the team and build accordingly. They are easy to take out in the playoffs because Leafs do nothing to dent the other teams attrition.

Regular season, it's easy for super star heavy teams to walk over the league. We have witnessed with our own eyes for decades the game changes in the playoffs and you need balance. Leafs are ahead of their time, zero contact league is probably still 10 years away.

This seems to be a very accurate description of what's currently going on.

Our management group has a vision of how the game "should" be played and are building the team under the premise that it will work because the theory makes sense.

The problem is that the sport of hockey is still a very violent game and once the playoffs start, this area of the game gets dramatically ramped up and the refs put their whistles away. Time and space gets reduced and you need to be able to play a versatile adjustable game because the hockey being played isnt the same as regular season play and you need to go thru 4 usually elite teams. Being able to inflict physical damage thru physical contact and play with nastiness when needed have always been characteristics of teams that go far in the postseason. The playoffs eventually become less about who's the most skilled team and moreso about who wants it more and how far are you willing to go to achieve victory.

Fighting alone doesnt win you games. It's not like you get into a fight, win the fight and boom the other team just conceeds and you win. It's more about a mentality that you're willing to do whatever it takes to win and if that means you need to drop the gloves and take some shots to the face then so be it. If it means you need to take a huge hit to get the puck out of your own zone then so be it. If it means you need to forecheck and lay some big hits then so be it. Some players and teams are more willing to do these things which arent very pleasant than others and it really gets magnified when you play the same team potentially 7 times in like 2 weeks. Take the Hathaway hit on Rielly the other day. Sure Rielly was fine and we won the game but I can gurantee if we played the Caps just 2 days later, Rielly would be hearing footsteps everytime he needed to go back and retrieve pucks in his own end and the chance he coughs the puck up is increased because of the knowledge the opposing team is going to make you pay physically. We simply dont have this element to our game and we dont have the ability to inflict physical damage on the other team and that limits our championship upside imo.

There's this narrative that's been going around for awhile that we're comparable to Tampa Bay. Look at these two videos from this week when TB played the Sens and then the Pens and ask yourself can you see our team doing this? Look at how fast the TB players come to the defence of their teammate. We have a very good team but unfortunately our weakness is something you usually need to consistently go far in the postseason.

 

[Leafsfan74]

I can't even blame dubas tbh. The man has clearly tried to add the Physical element the last few years (even though he's struck out in that department numerous times).

It's the coaching staff that continues to take the emotion out of those players by giving them the "Our Powerplay is our Enforcer" crap

It's why I thought last year was going to be their best chance. Limited team play due to the pandemic and having Bogosian and Foligno in the lineup, even a Galchenyuk played with some attitude and he didn't back down, veteran Thornton who understands the nature of the game.

We will see if Dubas can pull a rabbit out of his hat at the deadline. I just don't think any team would be too worried about playing the Leafs in a series. That perception is a problem for a team that lacks an identity.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I think what sucks is my choice for GM (Gorton) and coaches (Gallant & Boudreau) are gone, I don't even know who I would replace them with in the event we lose in the 1st round.

Martin, Simmonds, Ritchie etc all just stopped being physical here.

Simmonds has been useless to me.

 

[fahad203]

I think what sucks is my choice for GM (Gorton) and coaches (Gallant & Boudreau) are gone, I don't even know who I would replace them with in the event we lose in the 1st round.

Martin, Simmonds, Ritchie etc all just stopped being physical here.

Simmonds has been useless to me.

Gallant was right there for taking. I wanted him so badly

 

[ponder]

Out of all the current playoff teams, we're currently the softest. And its actually not close either.

This team is practically just begging Simmonds to be their sole leader for any sort of emotion.

FWIW, the numbers back this up - we’re either last or 2nd last among playoff teams in every toughness-related stat:

• Hits: lowest of any playoff team (3rd lowest in the league)
• Major penalties (proxy for fights): lowest in the league
• Overall PIMs: tied for lowest of any playoff team (tied for 2nd lowest in the league)
• Blocked shots: 2nd lowest of any playoff team (lowest in the league)

Eye test backs this up too - were clearly the softest playoff team, arguably the softest team period (arguable with Buffalo).

Also, agreed that it’s as much about team culture as individual players. Hitting, fighting, blocking shots, these are hard things to do - painful, injury risk. Players don’t like to do them, there needs to be a warrior culture on the team where these things are simply expected, and it’s not there on the Leafs.

 

[Shooter2x]

I can't even blame dubas tbh. The man has clearly tried to add the Physical element the last few years (even though he's struck out in that department numerous times).

It's the coaching staff that continues to take the emotion out of those players by giving them the "Our Powerplay is our Enforcer" crap

He's the one who extended Keefe after two underdog teams took him out. Being the softest team in the league (no point saying "one of" because the one or two teams behind us are irrelevant at this point of the season) is definitely on the hands of management.

 

[Leafsfan74]

Let the move of Bush to the pairing with Reilly dispell any belief that Keefe doesn't want a physically engaged team.

Whether by design or not, I believe this decision was brilliant for a number of reasons.

First, it illustrates that it is about team and nepotism or entitlement will not trump team necessity.

Second, it encourages good practices. Keefe is sending a message to his team "this is how I want pairings to play", with a more physical edge. In a series you need to wear down and make life difficult for opponents. It can't be a vacation for them.

Brodie last week I think against AZ had five.hits, Tavares seven in the same game. Brodie relies on good positioning, blocking lanes and excellent stickwork, any added physicality is a nice bonus. For other D it is paramount that they play physical and block shots to be effective. Some like Holl are beasts when hitting and blocking shots.

Third, it provides balance in the backend. The last two games have been strong. Imagine the addition of another strong, pain in the behind D Man and a return by Muzzin for the playoffs? It would make the Leafs the deepest D core in the league and one far more difficult to contend with (if he picks up the right kind of D Man).

 

[Sypher04]

We happen to have 3 of the softest superstars/stars players all on the same team (Mathews/Marner/Nylander). I guess you can add Tavares in that group too.

I dont know how Tampa got so lucky with guys like Kucherov, Point, Cirelli, Stamkos, Sergachecv, Cernak. All those guys look like they're ready to go to war for their teammates. You dont even need guys like Moroon, Goodrow, Coleman, Schenn like they had last year

I dont reject your overall premise here at all, but Matthews is in no way soft.

 

[IPS]

How can you be physical playing for the Leafs when the officiating clearly does not treat you the same as other teams? I think there's a very good reason why physical players who get traded here abandon their style of play.

 

[Duffman955]

How can you be physical playing for the Leafs when the officiating clearly does not treat you the same as other teams? I think there's a very good reason why physical players who get traded here abandon their style of play.

When we had Orr and McLaren we ran over teams routinely. I don't remember us picking up a lot of minors

 

[SeaOfBlue]

When we had Orr and McLaren we ran over teams routinely. I don't remember us picking up a lot of minors

They rarely played in general. How many minor penalties can you pick up in 5 minutes of ATOI?

 

[Martin Skoula]

FWIW, the numbers back this up - we’re either last or 2nd last among playoff teams in every toughness-related stat:

• Hits: lowest of any playoff team (3rd lowest in the league)
• Major penalties (proxy for fights): lowest in the league
• Overall PIMs: tied for lowest of any playoff team (tied for 2nd lowest in the league)
• Blocked shots: 2nd lowest of any playoff team (lowest in the league)

Eye test backs this up too - were clearly the softest playoff team, arguably the softest team period (arguable with Buffalo).

Also, agreed that it’s as much about team culture as individual players. Hitting, fighting, blocking shots, these are hard things to do - painful, injury risk. Players don’t like to do them, there needs to be a warrior culture on the team where these things are simply expected, and it’s not there on the Leafs.

It's almost like we're one of the best possession teams in the league. Not hitting, blocking shots, or taking penalties when you have the puck 3/4 of the game. Even if we had Wilson on the top line those stats wouldn't look much different.

 

[ITM]

How can you be physical playing for the Leafs when the officiating clearly does not treat you the same as other teams? I think there's a very good reason why physical players who get traded here abandon their style of play.

Excellent point.