Keefe on physicality and grit

[Niagara Bill]

Kadri is missed. Would be interesting if we kept him

Kadri is a hot head, cost us dearly with his actions. We want a cup. We need tough with a purpose not blind anger like Kadri.

 

[sparxx87]

Kadri is a hot head, cost us dearly with his actions. We want a cup. We need tough with a purpose not blind anger like Kadri.

It wasn’t blind anger. Brad May explained it perfectly on SN - the situation doesn’t escalate if they had more collective pushback. Kadri lost his mind because he was sick of watching his men get beat up and bullied with no response.

Give me the guy who punches back over the guy who just takes it and cries about officiating every day.

Imagine Washington traded Wilson, or Boston traded Marchard? They’d be complete fools, but Dubas traded Kadri for cream puff Kerfoot. Ooops.

 

[Brad C]

I was just reading in the thread about the lost to Buffalo,people where saying Keefe cant coach..I support Keefe

After reading this artical,I am leaning to agree.

 

[mclaren55]

I've lost faith in these guys getting past the first round with Keefe being head coach. After reading that, I'm not sure how he thinks you win come playoff time. "Play harder", well if they can play harder, that means they aren't playing as hard as they can, anyone else see a problem in that?

 

[Dreakmur]

Kadri is a hot head, cost us dearly with his actions. We want a cup. We need tough with a purpose not blind anger like Kadri.

Yes, Kadri’s absence hurt us… because what he brought was so valuable.

 

[LeafSteel]

Sorry, this to me is a the attitude of an already defeated team.

Can’t fathom someone face washing and shoving me or a teammate and not getting into it.

Playoffs are a different beast and we’ve repeatedly shown we don’t have it between the ears.

The definition of futility is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

I don’t expect a different result as currently constructed.

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

Goaltending will sink this team long before anything else will. Dubas two biggest offseason signings Mrazek and Ritchie have been a disaster. Campbell also has played like garbage as well. With the current goalies we have I dont think we will win a game in round one. Also if we lose again I have my doubts Matthews extends with us so we may be looking at another rebuild as well. As a huge fan it is very disheartening.

 

[Stigma]

Wow, what disappointing comments by Keefe. Either he is downplaying the psychology of the game, trying to justify something he knows is missing on the team, or is too invested in ideals ('this is how hockey should be played) as opposed to reality. Not good.

Even though Kypreos doesn't always have great takes, he had a good take the other day. He said that, when a player, regardless of size or toughness, comes in to help you out when you're getting swarmed, and takes a punch in the head for you, that creates a whole other type of bond between you and that person. If that mentality spreads, then you have a team that's willing to sacrifice for each other and do what is necessary to win.

 

[ACC1224]

Wow, what disappointing comments by Keefe. Either he is downplaying the psychology of the game, trying to justify something he knows is missing on the team, or is too invested in ideals ('this is how hockey should be played) as opposed to reality. Not good.

Even though Kypreos doesn't always have great takes, he had a good take the other day. He said that, when a player, regardless of size or toughness, comes in to help you out when you're getting swarmed, and takes a punch in the head for you, that creates a whole other type of bond between you and that person. If that mentality spreads, then you have a team that's willing to sacrifice for each other and do what is necessary to win.

That's hockey 101 and it's truly amazing that anyone would argue that it isn't important.
This is the line that defines a fan as someone who watches the game vs someone who understands what they are watching.

 

[Brad C]

That's hockey 101 and it's truly amazing that anyone would argue that it isn't important.
This is the line that defines a fan as someone who watches the game vs someone who understands what they are watching.

"This is the line that defines a fan as someone who watches the game vs someone who understands what they are watching".

Your post is true and a little face wash thrown in.

 

[Mess]

That's hockey 101 and it's truly amazing that anyone would argue that it isn't important.
This is the line that defines a fan as someone who watches the game vs someone who understands what they are watching.

That is not something you can learn from a spreadsheet or use numbers from to present a good rebuttal.

However this is something of a missing ingredient from our Leafs team for the most part, that would be invaluable in a long playoff run particularly from Leafs skilled players to benefit from. IMO

Opposition teams are guaranteed to use this vulnerability against the Leafs to their own benefit to slow down Leafs attack.

 

[Jacquestrapless]

IDK if MGMT pulled a U.S and enacted sanctions on physicality or what, but this ain't it chief. Nobody finishes their checks, nobody stands up for each other, nobody fights. Even the wins aren't confidence-inspiring. The losses bother me less and less every day because they don't look like they give a damn either. Just going through the motions.

A soulless, lifeless husk of a line-up, comprised of old-timers and mercenaries. This ain't a team. Just a collection of individuals.

This team will definitely get punk'd again in the playoffs, and you know what, I'm here for it. This is the most talented leafs team I've seen but they close in on the 6th year of futility.

They've shown no inclination to adapt or change their game. Gut the core and mgmt. Win something and maybe that'll change my mind.

 

[thusk]

Stop overthinking, game 40 to 65 are probably worst to keep focus during every game and play with full energy like they did againdt washingron. Those kind of game against bad team right now look like a trap. Its a team out of playoff, so you cant really prepare yourself for playoff against those team.

I would more worried if toronto would have play that way against washington, minneaota, stl, pittsburgh, calgary, carolina... but thats not the case, they drop in energy against team out of playoff and like every coach, keefe just trying to prevent it.

 

[ITM]

Kadri is a hot head, cost us dearly with his actions. We want a cup. We need tough with a purpose not blind anger like Kadri.

Perhaps I'm myopic but I maintain there was a double standard applied to the Leafs and to Kadri. I think Boston got away with stuff and certainly Marchand did, and perhaps the other vets here can jog my memory, but Kadri's reaction seemed normative from playoffs in the past.

From that moment on, I have no clear idea what the dividing line is from the league office. It looked like Kadri was being exampled and to what lasting effect, again, no clue.

Another thing...I think except in instances like a player like Matthews being suspended, and taking nothing away from Kadri, but a playoffs TEAM isn't deterred by the loss of one player.

That's a mindset we as fans have to get over and maybe it's something sullied into our organization given the myopia of the media. Look at Tampa, Boston, Washington, teams from the past like Detroit, New Jersey and Dallas and those clubs seemed to heal like sharks. Not saying they didn't share in adversity, but there was always a sense of optimism (if that's the right word) that someone from the minors or someone lower in the pecking order was going to step up.

###

From another thread I was inspired to look at our early nineties club that looked as much a true contender as we've had in my lifetime. And what's downplayed, even ignored is the need for steady, bruising, battling defenceman. Ellett who was our number one defenceman at the time was no pushover. Our supporting core of Rouse, McCoun (Sp?) and LEVEBRVE (Remember him?!) all had relatively high PIM numbers and they could skate.

High-profile names seem all the rage, but I think we really need to kick tires on players like Jacob Middleton, Carson Soucey, Scott Mayfield and the like. Muzzin is out and aging...After that, we're icing a concept that seldom flourishes in the playoffs. In other words, we're repeating the same actions over and expecting different results.

 

[noo]

I've always felt this team was being coached into playing soft and now it's sadly confirmed..

No heavy forechecks, no scrums, no standing up for each other. Sure you won't get Wilson to stop being who he is, but even little midgets have the courage to take runs at our players because they know there's 0 consequence for it.

Teams always be crashing the goalie and taking extra whacks after the whistle and all they get is one of our D skating up to them without even making eye contact; it's honestly depressing sometimes

Afraid of getting penalties is a bunch of bullshit, too. There's hardly ever calls made in a scrum unless someone takes it too far, a couple shoves and a facewash isn't getting called, it's the NHL bub grow a pair

 

[D00bis]

they have tried skill vs will and it hasnt worked in the playoffs, not once. I like the idea of having players with grit not bruts. not even thinking of wilson cause he is an exception that can do it all both skill and physical. Hathaway was hitting literally everything on the ice without any push back. Im sure they could remodel the 4th line to bring more energy cause simmer cant do it all himself

 

[Eternal Leaf]

To add on top of what I was saying earlier, let's imagine that Tom Wilson scenario.

Game 1, he roughs up Tavares. Eh, no big deal. You shake it off and move on.

Game 2, he again roughs up Tavares. Okay, that hurt a little more but you shake it off and move on again.

Now it's game 5, 6, or 7 and he's roughed Tavares up every game along the way with no response (perhaps multiple times). At this point, Tavares is starting to feel the bumps and bruises of that physicality. It might be altering his shot/passing a little. It's in his head. He might even be taking a different path to the net to avoid the same engagement because no one has forced the opposition to back off.

That's why such physicality is not purely symbolic or even about bonding between teammates. It's a tactical way to free up space for your skill to shine. It's almost silly to suggest otherwise and is a completely regular-season mindset where you can forget everything as soon as you're off the ice, get on the plane, and play a different team in a few days.

In the playoffs, you have to give back. In fact, sometimes it's even worth it to take a penalty and set the tone. Lots of seasoned playoff teams do this and do it effectively to swing momentum in their favor.

This applies to anything in playoff hockey. Whether it's a scrum, hit, or trash talking. It adds up.

Of course, this is not the only reason the Leafs lose in the playoffs. There's a lot more to hockey but this is also a part of playoff hockey that cannot be brushed away.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

Littering and?

…smoking the Keefer.

I’ll leave now.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

To add on top of what I was saying earlier, let's imagine that Tom Wilson scenario.

Game 1, he roughs up Tavares. Eh, no big deal. You shake it off and move on.

Game 2, he again roughs up Tavares. Okay, that hurt a little more but you shake it off and move on again.

Now it's game 5, 6, or 7 and he's roughed Tavares up every game along the way with no response (perhaps multiple times). At this point, Tavares is starting to feel the bumps and bruises of that physicality. It might be altering his shot/passing a little. It's in his head. He might even be taking a different path to the net to avoid the same engagement because no one has forced the opposition to back off.

That's why such physicality is not purely symbolic or even about bonding between teammates. It's a tactical way to free up space for your skill to shine. It's almost silly to suggest otherwise and is a completely regular-season mindset where you can forget everything as soon as you're off the ice, get on the plane, and play a different team in a few days.

In the playoffs, you have to give back. In fact, sometimes it's even worth it to take a penalty and set the tone. Lots of seasoned playoff teams do this and do it effectively to swing momentum in their favor.

This applies to anything in playoff hockey. Whether it's a scrum, hit, or trash talking. It adds up.

Of course, this is not the only reason the Leafs lose in the playoffs. There's a lot more to hockey but this is also a part of playoff hockey that cannot be brushed away.

In playoffs here is what really happened ..

 

[Niagara Bill]

Perhaps I'm myopic but I maintain there was a double standard applied to the Leafs and to Kadri. I think Boston got away with stuff and certainly Marchand did, and perhaps the other vets here can jog my memory, but Kadri's reaction seemed normative from playoffs in the past.

From that moment on, I have no clear idea what the dividing line is from the league office. It looked like Kadri was being exampled and to what lasting effect, again, no clue.

Another thing...I think except in instances like a player like Matthews being suspended, and taking nothing away from Kadri, but a playoffs TEAM isn't deterred by the loss of one player.

That's a mindset we as fans have to get over and maybe it's something sullied into our organization given the myopia of the media. Look at Tampa, Boston, Washington, teams from the past like Detroit, New Jersey and Dallas and those clubs seemed to heal like sharks. Not saying they didn't share in adversity, but there was always a sense of optimism (if that's the right word) that someone from the minors or someone lower in the pecking order was going to step up.

###

From another thread I was inspired to look at our early nineties club that looked as much a true contender as we've had in my lifetime. And what's downplayed, even ignored is the need for steady, bruising, battling defenceman. Ellett who was our number one defenceman at the time was no pushover. Our supporting core of Rouse, McCoun (Sp?) and LEVEBRVE (Remember him?!) all had relatively high PIM numbers and they could skate.

High-profile names seem all the rage, but I think we really need to kick tires on players like Jacob Middleton, Carson Soucey, Scott Mayfield and the like. Muzzin is out and aging...After that, we're icing a concept that seldom flourishes in the playoffs. In other words, we're repeating the same actions over and expecting different results.

The lose of one player should not destroy a team, but Kadri was the only aggressive player, the others died. He went over the top, but I do like his style

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

Problem with Leaf is one grit man wont make the team fierce. One grit man creates oh, grit player will do all the hitting and forechecking and fighting. Whole team need to wake up and have mentality like my friend Gary Roberts.

Then new problem is other opponent wake up with this mentality. Cancel out ours because their starting point was higher to begin. Fierce issue mental. The powder puff players not skilled enough to get away with being puff. Marner allowed to avoid contact because he capable of 120 points in 2 games if he focus on offence. what is others excuse to conserve their energy and play like 1999-2002 Sens?

 

[Clyde Brewer]

In playoffs here is what really happened ..

Well, there are a lot of people questioning Simmonds' value. To me he'll be a crucial part of the lineup come playoff time.

If he's not there, what's the plan when things get rough? And it will get rough, it always does. What's our plan B? Muzzin could be back in the lineup, but with his recent injuries, he's about the last guy I'd want to see chucking knuckles. Holl is a big boy, but he's as tough as a marshmallow. Spezza has shown willingness, but he's almost a senior citizen.

Lyubushkin would be our only other tough customer. I'd be practicing load management with Simmonds to ensure he's healthy come playoff time, hell be needed.

 

[notbias]

That is not something you can learn from a spreadsheet or use numbers from to present a good rebuttal.

However this is something of a missing ingredient from our Leafs team for the most part, that would be invaluable in a long playoff run particularly from Leafs skilled players to benefit from. IMO

Opposition teams are guaranteed to use this vulnerability against the Leafs to their own benefit to slow down Leafs attack.

Example -- look at Washington the other night, they destroyed us physically and on the scoresheet.

 

[Scion]

That's hockey 101 and it's truly amazing that anyone would argue that it isn't important.
This is the line that defines a fan as someone who watches the game vs someone who understands what they are watching.

You don't even need to play hockey or understand the game to get it. When one of your boys gets into a scrap you are in it too regardless of whose fault it is or how big the others guys are. There is a four letter word beginning with a B that describes people who don't understand that.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You don't even need to play hockey or understand the game to get it. When one of your boys gets into a scrap you are in it too regardless of whose fault it is or how big the others guys are. There is a four letter word beginning with a B that describes people who don't understand that.

Which makes it all the more strange that there is a big group of stats gurus here who don't get it because it's not measured in their spreadsheets. They relentlessly mock us "negative nancys " after every big win and after the playoffs, they go into hiding for a bit and then they're back posting stats again. But I think many of us either are sure, or at least strongly suspect that this seemingly inbred "p***yness" that permeates our team, is the biggest reason that our "expected" playoff success lags far behind actual success.