Karlsson vs Doughty vs Hedman

[Janvonpobben]

VH: 1,3,3,3,3,3,6,7
DD: 1,2,2,3,6,7
EK: 1,1,1,2,2,7

Wow you were quick. I didnt find any good website for this info.

it pretty much cements the fact that these are the best Defensemen last 10 years.

 

[amnesiac]

Wow you were quick. I didnt find any good website for this info.

it pretty much cements the fact that these are the best Defensemen last 10 years.

15 years even. I wanted to add Keith and Chara but wouldve made the choices more complicated. I think Chara is possibly above Doughty, but started his career a decade earlier

Norris for comparison:
Keith: 1,1,4,6,6,7
Chara: 1,2,2,3,3,4,5,7


hockeyref, see right hand margin

Victor Hedman Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Victor Hedman. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

 

[the_fan]

Vezina voting?

 

[amnesiac]

Vezina voting?

my bad

 

[jetsforever]

where they finished in Vezina voting in a given year

1 mean they won it
2 means they were runnerup
etc

Wow being the top goalie in the league on top of his defence prowess really cements this for Karlsson!

 

[Golden_Jet]

Top 5 Norris placement. You know, the voting process every year.

Ya I answered that, winning is a top 5 placement.

 

[amnesiac]

Ya I answered that, winning is a top 5 placement.

well I wouldnt consider Keith better than Hedman at all just because he won one more Norris

Hedman has five 3rd place finishes, Keith never finished 2nd or 3rd

Brad Park is the ultimate example, runner up 5 times (lost to Orr x3, Potvin x2). Doesnt make him worse than every other one time Norris winner.

 

[Golden_Jet]

well I wouldnt consider Keith better than Hedman at all just because he won one more Norris

Hedman has five 3rd place finishes, Keith never finished 2nd or 3rd

Brad Park is the ultimate example

That’s fine, since the post I quoted had nothing to do with Keith.

Doughtys prime was too short. Hedman has been better for much longer.

Does anyone have top 5 norris finishes between the two?

 

[amnesiac]

That’s fine, since the post I quoted had nothing to do with Keith.

nvm... thought you were implying only winning it mattered

 

[norrisnick]

That’s fine, since the post I quoted had nothing to do with Keith.

Nor Karlsson, but you still managed to give far more information about him than the two players asked about.

 

[Sam de Mtl]

I am in the Hedman, Doughty, Karlsson camp. I have never been a fan of the style of play of Karlsson in how I would build my team. This is why I vote this way, more so than invidual performances or hardware.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Norris for comparison:
Keith: 1,1,4,6,6,7
Chara: 1,2,2,3,3,4,5,7

Total Norris trophy votes, post-lockout era (2006 to 2023)*

Nicklas Lidstrom	1.60
Erik Karlsson	1.41
Zdeno Chara	1.30
Victor Hedman	1.19
Drew Doughty	1.11
Shea Weber	0.95
Duncan Keith	0.84
Roman Josi	0.79
Cale Makar	0.69
Brent Burns	0.68
PK Subban	0.61
Adam Fox	0.56
Mike Green	0.55
Scott Niedermayer	0.53
John Carlson	0.50
Kris Letang	0.49
Ryan Suter	0.45
Mark Giordano	0.45
Alex Pietrangelo	0.32
Chris Pronger	0.26

1.00 = the amount of votes a player would theoretically earn, had they been awarded every single vote in a single season

Every year has been adjusted to be worth the same number of votes.

* I haven't gotten around to updating this for 2024 yet.

 

[JackSlater]

Karlsson comfortably on top for me, then Doughty still clearly ahead of Hedman. I'm not surprised looking at the results. Hedman is generally overrated, Doughty generally underrated, and Karlsson somehow manages to be both at different times.

 

[sensfan4lifee]

EK65 with Ottawa was a generational defenseman responsible for changing the way the game is played from the backend. Without Karlsson, there’s no Hughes, Makar, or Bouchard.

Hedman is next, and Due Doughty is a distant 3rd.

Uhm Karlsson is not the first offensive DMAN to ever play the game and he did nothing to change the way the game is played, Orr, Coffey, Leetch, Neidermyer all played as puck carrying DMAN and did it on a more consistent basis. Karlsson was good but no he did not change the way the game was played

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Different types of players. Karlsson is probably one of the most unique players to ever play in the NHL, he's one of the few players that can legitimately carry a team on his back. However ask him to share the ice and he's not nearly as effective. You have to let him run the show in order to unlock his peak talent.

Doughty and Hedman are more guys you can slot into any team and they'll play top minutes, be able to find a Kopitar or Kucherov and get them the puck.

Personally I find how Karlsson played to be more impressive. My thinking is that if you're building a franchise from scratch, if you take Karlsson then you have your gamebreaking talent that can win you games entirely on his effort and now you just need to add good supporting pieces around him, vs if you take a Doughty or a Hedman then you still need to go out and acquire that dynamic threat that tilts the ice whenever they play.

 

[KevinRedkey]

1. Karlsson
2a. Doughty
2b. Hedman

 

[Hanji]

Karlsson can be too hit or miss for #1.

Hedman > Karlsson > Doughty

 

[Nadal On Clay]

Hedman
Karlsson
Doughty

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Doughtys prime was too short. Hedman has been better for much longer.

Does anyone have top 5 norris finishes between the two?

I think the problem is people looked way too hard at Doughty's most dominant years and completely overlooked the rest of his career. He was excellent from day 1. And even after the Kings started fading, he had one of his best years in 2018. He was hammered dog shit for a year and a half or so after that, but people are still holding onto that as if he's that guy yet until he got hurt he was well on track for arguably his best year ever in 2022, and he's been a phenomenal #1 on an unfortunate black hole team since.

People talk about him as if he only existed between 2012 and 2016.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I got Ek > Doughty > Hedman but i can see why ppl flip doughty and hedman around

 

[Regal]

I think the problem is people looked way too hard at Doughty's most dominant years and completely overlooked the rest of his career. He was excellent from day 1. And even after the Kings started fading, he had one of his best years in 2018. He was hammered dog shit for a year and a half or so after that, but people are still holding onto that as if he's that guy yet until he got hurt he was well on track for arguably his best year ever in 2022, and he's been a phenomenal #1 on an unfortunate black hole team since.

People talk about him as if he only existed between 2012 and 2016.

I think it also gets ignored that Hedman’s defense hasn’t been good for a couple years now, and wasn’t great while dealing with injury in ‘21 either. And that he took longer to become great. He had 7 years from 13-14 to 19-20 where he was awesome, he struggled the second half of ‘21 after injury, had a good ‘22 then his defense fell off these past two. I don’t think Hedman’s prime has been any longer for the most part.

 

[BraveCanadian]

At first glance it is Hedman - Doughty - EK for me

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Hedman over Karlsson any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I can see arguments for both Karlsson and Doughty, though.

 

[Regal]

Uhm Karlsson is not the first offensive DMAN to ever play the game and he did nothing to change the way the game is played, Orr, Coffey, Leetch, Neidermyer all played as puck carrying DMAN and did it on a more consistent basis. Karlsson was good but no he did not change the way the game was played

I don’t know if “changed how it’s played” is the right wording, but from the DPE until Karlsson broke out, we never really saw defensemen push offense at ES to the same degree we saw from Orr’s era until the early 90s and there were a lot of people who didn’t think it was possible anymore.

 

[Figgy44]

Hmm this one is a little difficult. Depending on how you interpret or change the question, you can legitimately change the order of the players mentioned. For me personally something like:

Prime/peak/career individual: Karlsson, Hedman, Doughty

Career overall/who would I want to put in my team to win the cup with: Hedman, Doughty, Karlsson (ie: Actual accolades).

And to be a little more fair, Karlsson hasn't been the same since that skate cut. Without that, he might have had a chance to blow both Hedman and Doughty completely out of the water. It's really close though.